(But if WvWvW will mean long term pvp fun by the buckets (rather than "repetitive XL battleground") that might change).
We already know that WvWvW is not a battleground PVP it's open world PVP
Not really. It's still in an instanced off part of the game with predetermined objectives. Also there are examples of large battlegrounds like AV in WOW (which also happens to have small group and single player secondary objectives) which kind of closes the gap between battlegrounds and world pvp. i.e. I wonder if WvWvW still feels like being in a vast BG such as AV.
Nope WvWvW happens in a zone which is not the same as an instance,you do know the differance from a zone and an instance,ermm obviously not.An instance is a part of the world where only you and your group can enter,it's not open to anyone else except your group.
WvWvW happens in a zone where anyone can enter at anytime,it's persistant not like an instance.
Structual PVP is the same as WOW battlegrounds not WvWvW.
Guess you learn something new everyday but you should know the differance by now.
,structual PVP is your battleground type PvP but you know this already.
Yesh.
Why would you have a problem with battleground PVP anyway,your favorite game has it.
Wut?
swtor.
I'm not talking about your latest fad either.
Doublewut?!
Double swtor.
Now you know the differance from a zone and an instance,glad i could help you.
Uhm, where to start?
Oh yes ... you can call it instance, you can call it zone, you can even call it herpderpia ... it's still outside of the regular gameworld and even split up in four seperate sub-herpderpias (one home herpderpia for each server and one shared).
"Open world" pvp? Not really.
Also if you really want to go semantics: two week rotations still isn't persistent.
Also also: why u so vengeful, Sylvarii?
Nope it's not an instance,it's a zone that allows anyone to enter,that's not the same as an instance.
WvWvW happens in a zone not an instance,in that zone it's open world PVP not like WOW where you have PVP servers that aloow PVP anywhere but open world pvp in a zone that is not an instance.
Ill let Colin Johanson explain it to you.
“The other thing that I think is important and this is not a direct answer, but we have World vs. World PvP in Guild Wars 2. I think that will impact PvE as well. Which is your server shard matched up against two other servers in open world PvP. If you like Dark Age of Camelot, this is, in our minds the next evolution of that. It is something that really drove community and you care about what you are doing on a PVE and PvP side. You care about the people on the server. We think we will have those bonds because your server is matched up against two other servers. So it is just that much more important that you become friends and you bond with the players on your server. So the friends you make through PvE and Dynamic Events, those friends will carry over into World vs. World PvP. You may get out of World vs. World PvP and go back to early zones to do events with new people and help encourage them to join you in the fight for your server to take part in battles and beat the other two. We expect large strong communities on each server and I think PvP will end up affecting PvE because people will work together.” -Colin Johanson (Lead Content Designer)
It isn't open world because, well, you can't pvp in the world. Only in that one zone. Maybe open zone pvp would be a more appropriate term, at least moreso than open world, because it simply isn't.
So let's see, Open World PvP means: the ability to PvP in the 'main' PvE world. Now what does PvE world mean? The place the story line evolves? The place characters progress/level? The place where people COULD be ganked and harassed if they did not WANT to PvP? A second server choice where people could co-operate, protect, and help each other NOT be ganked and build comeraderie, etc.
So if you feel that the very last description is what you want, then choose a main server, and then choose to play only in W v W. You will get loot drops from killing others, ganking will not be available (well you wouldn't think so since there is no one playing in this area that wouldn't expect another player to NOT kill them), you will have 4 different zones/maps/whatevers to infiltrate and fight over, you can either kill mobs, or enlist mobs to help your side, oh yeah AND you can totally level to max level in W v W (W v W does not level you to max level automatically)
No, that is still open zone pvp. It is like Wintergrasp without a timer on steroids. I've never heard, before this game came around, anyone refer to a game that had a zone where you were flagged for pvp, but you couldn't pvp anywhere else but battlegrounds as an open world pvp game. Because it isn't by definition. You cannot go in 24 of the 25 zones and pvp in them. You only get to pvp in 1 out of 25 zones.
Anyone trying to make the argument that WvWvW is actually open world PvP simply doesn't know what open world PvP is. What GW2 has is large scale INSTANCED PvP objectives. That's it. It's not part of the actual gameworld...it's completely separate. Hence...NOT open world. It's no different than a large scale, 2 week battleground that you don't have to queue for. Now maybe it's not technically "instanced" by definition, but I consider anything in which a group of people is pulled out of the gameworld into another area and sectioned off via loading screen an "instance."
Open World PvP means you can PvP anwhere in the world you want. There is a sense of danger while out questing because you are constantly looking over your shoulder for the other guy. There is always the possibility that random skirmishes will break out between the two sides at any point, if it's instituted correctly.
It's a very simple concept, yet some of the GW2 fans on this thread who are arguing that GW2 is "open world" simply can't seem to grasp it.
So... is EvE online not really open world PvP either because you can't "really" PvP in high sec besides suicide ganking?
Or are you counting Faction and war decs too?
Doesn't sound very OPEN if there are so many rules and limitations.
And how is EvE an open world/galaxy when every.single.system is its own zone?
Or is there a way to travel from one system to another without gates or jump drives no one told me about?
Every time I jumped to a new system in EvE I saw my ship and the surroundings "pop" (unload/load)
I mean, doesn't sound open if you can't just wander from one system to the next at sublight/warp.
This ^ was done to prove a point - if you break something down enough, get SO incredibly detailed, you can find a way to pretty much discount anything.
I think some people will complain just to complain and for the whole argument about if this is open world pvp or not. Well.. Daoc wasn't all open pvp and WoW had open world pvp servers and guess how populated those servers were. I like having objectives and a reason to pvp at end game and the person that said Guild Wars 2 pvp is pointless.... Umm. I suggest you need you to stop playing games all together then. What are you looking for really???
Every game has it's flaws, and it's strengths and GW2 will not be magically exempt from this. The personal story system from everything we've seen so far does indeed appear to be lacking pretty heavily, since it seems to totally displace you from the game-world and put you in this weird backdrop situation, with static characters. The game world seems impressive enough, but with no real end-game as part of their ideology with this game, I wonder how long this game will hold sustained interest in the majority of the gaming community. The game definitely is looking impressive in many ways, I'll be playing with many of you when launch is finally here...But I probably won't be canceling my SW:TOR subscription for this, and I don't think many other people will be, either. Partially due to the fact you don't need to since this game has no sub-fee, but also because there *will* be things that aren't quite to standard with GW2 that you'll only find in a game like SW:TOR, or even older MMO's.
And this I don't understand. You're one of those people who think end game = raids. Well that's sad.
Well, thats not sad, thats mmo. I have bf3 if i want some random fights. And to search for events around tha lands is same as i did in Rift and that is not working very well. But i will buy game because it is cheap, i know i will forget in few weeks but who cares. If you give money for some single players fps that last about 8-10h it is worth to give for mmo same money
Uuugghh!!!! End game? Where is end game? Must have end game! What? No end game? But what I gonna do? Uggghhh!!! Me no stick with this game cos it have no end game. Where is da purple epics? Where is da carrot? Gimme da carrot! I want me a carrot! A purple carrot! Yes!! But this game has no carrots and end game raiding. Everyone likes purple carrots and end game raiding. All mmos MUST have purple carrots and end game raiding cos it is the ONLY way to make an mmo. Mmos are for life! They last for ever and if they dont then they are poo! Yes! I am thinking for myself! Yes! I have not been brain washed by endless piles of purple carrots. No! What? You dont want carrots or end game raiding? You is stupid then! Uuugghh!!
So, it has good graphics, combat, the ability to group, quests, and multiple races.
Wow, that's never been done before....
For all the hype, that's what I'm hearing - when actually playing it, this game is a lot "more of the same" than ANet has been making it sound.
Have to wait and see.
If that's what you read then I advice you to re-read it a few more times. Reading comprehension ftw.
Really don't bother. I sincerely don't want people ingame that have so little interest in the game that they can't even read or research anything about the game. That would include a LOT of people from this site. Are those really the kind of gamers you want to play side by side with even for a few days? Not I. I have TOTALLY quit trying to "convince" people of anything good about Anet or GW2. It just means that the people who actually WANT TO BE THERE will be there. Those are the people with whom I want to play the game. Know what I mean?
I do know what you mean and it is indeed hopeless and terribly tragic. People have become so conditioned by seeing the same stuff in mmos that they are just no longer capable of thinking of anything else. They are just addicted to the same old routine
So, it has good graphics, combat, the ability to group, quests, and multiple races.
Wow, that's never been done before....
For all the hype, that's what I'm hearing - when actually playing it, this game is a lot "more of the same" than ANet has been making it sound.
Have to wait and see.
It isn't "more of the same". Trust me. It's actually different. You actually have freedom in this game. You're not pushed down a narrow corridor of quest after quest after quest. You can go wherever you want to and do whatever events tickle your fancy (assuming you're not grossly underpowered). No, I'm not a beta tester, but I'm also not here to shill for ANet.
So what can I do if I am sick of quests ? Is GW2 a sandbox game?
'Why hasn't anyone answered this question.
What CAN you do if you don't want quests/random events (or pvp)?
MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts
Are the quest and radom event kill ten rabbits etc?
Unfortunately each step in these dynamic quest chains are basically the same as any other MMO. 1) Kill 10 rats, 2) Fetch 10 logs; 3) Plant 5 crops, 4) Delver weapon to NPC, 5) Defend this location, 6) Escort NPC, etc. Each individual piece of the quest will be pretty much everything you've ever seen before.
HOWEVER, the new twist is depending on if each task is accomplished or not, the next quest in line might be different and the world circumstances might change. This is an innovation overall, the question is how different will it be once you've seen the quest chain play out a couple times. Probably not too different. But if they have a ton of these quest chains it sounds like a better way to do questing no doubt.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Are the quest and radom event kill ten rabbits etc?
Unfortunately each step in these dynamic quest chains are basically the same as any other MMO. 1) Kill 10 rats, 2) Fetch 10 logs; 3) Plant 5 crops, 4) Delver weapon to NPC, 5) Defend this location, 6) Escort NPC, etc. Each individual piece of the quest will be pretty much everything you've ever seen before.
HOWEVER, the new twist is depending on if each task is accomplished or not, the next quest in line might be different and the world circumstances might change. This is an innovation overall, the question is how different will it be once you've seen the quest chain play out a couple times. Probably not too different. But if they have a ton of these quest chains it sounds like a better way to do questing no doubt.
So... is EvE online not really open world PvP either because you can't "really" PvP in high sec besides suicide ganking?
Or are you counting Faction and war decs too?
Doesn't sound very OPEN if there are so many rules and limitations.
And how is EvE an open world/galaxy when every.single.system is its own zone?
Or is there a way to travel from one system to another without gates or jump drives no one told me about?
Every time I jumped to a new system in EvE I saw my ship and the surroundings "pop" (unload/load)
I mean, doesn't sound open if you can't just wander from one system to the next at sublight/warp.
This ^ was done to prove a point - if you break something down enough, get SO incredibly detailed, you can find a way to pretty much discount anything.
Well yes, EVE has a sharded (but persistant) universe. But allow me to disprove your proving of a point by going even further, Spock
The PVP in EVE is what most people refer to as "open". You are in fact able to attack anyone, anywhere, anytime (except for docked peoples), only in high sec the consequences are kind of brutal if you didn't bribe concord with a little war dec ISK, in low sec gate guns will fire on you and you still get a sec hit, but most systems (0.0 + W-space) are completely FFA.
Also, talking about persistance: EVE is ONE "server" (I know, technically it isn't but you know what I mean: one world, one community).
If you'd impose the GW2 model on EVE you'd have to disable pvp in all but a few systems and have people fight for control and over premade objectives, (rather than their own, player made ones) in just those few systems ... and reset everything after two week periods ...
Imagine that. Haha! I pitty the dev who would have to announce such a measure to the EVE community
Anyway, you can't really compare them. We can either keep going on with the semantics debate on what "instance" means or let it slide. I prefered the latter option.
"There are few things that will leave players scratching their heads".
What are these things? Everything else sounds good but to drop that in at the end and not go in to any detail at all seems a bit weird.
I've heard a lot of reports from all over the place that there is a lack of tutorials in the game at the moment, but that ANet are planning on making more of them available in time for release. I'd assume that is what that comment is refering to.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Are the quest and radom event kill ten rabbits etc?
Unfortunately each step in these dynamic quest chains are basically the same as any other MMO. 1) Kill 10 rats, 2) Fetch 10 logs; 3) Plant 5 crops, 4) Delver weapon to NPC, 5) Defend this location, 6) Escort NPC, etc. Each individual piece of the quest will be pretty much everything you've ever seen before.
HOWEVER, the new twist is depending on if each task is accomplished or not, the next quest in line might be different and the world circumstances might change. This is an innovation overall, the question is how different will it be once you've seen the quest chain play out a couple times. Probably not too different. But if they have a ton of these quest chains it sounds like a better way to do questing no doubt.
Exactly correct. It's undoubtedly an improvement, and the fact that it encourages exploration in what looks to be a very beautiful game world is a step in the right direction. However, it's not the be all-end all system that people seem to think it is. It's the next step in the evolutionary process, but when you break down the dynamic events, many of them are nothing more than a series of generic quest objectives. The improvement comes from the fact that they've removed the linearity from the grind, and encouraged group participation.
The major question regarding the system is what happens when you've seen the various events enough times? Does it get old? I'm afraid it probably will. Arena Net boasts having thousands of these different dynamic events throughout the world, but you have to wonder exactly how many of them are TRULY different from each other. I mean, if you've done one event where the first few quests are kill 10 pigs, deliver this item to this farmer, repel this attack from these invaders, kill this boss...and then you go to a new area that tells you to kill 10 rats, deliver a different item to a different farmer, repel a different set of invaders, and kill a differrent boss...is it really unique? I'm just interested to see how many variations of the same basic event we are going to see throughout the world. I can see those getting pretty old pretty quick if they don't have enough variety, much like the Rifts and Invasions did in Rift.
Can't lie...the game world and environment look pretty damn awesome though. That alone will get me to at least try the game for a while.
How does the NDA work? Media is allowed to talk about last weekends beta, but others are not? Just wondering. I have some opinions myself, but cannot share. Thanks.
I have some strong opinions I would like to share as well. But I think we have to keep quiet until the NDA is lifted.
QFT. I guess the lucky ones get to wait a bit...or maybe till April 11th? Fun thread to read though, cheers.
Are the quest and radom event kill ten rabbits etc?
Unfortunately each step in these dynamic quest chains are basically the same as any other MMO. 1) Kill 10 rats, 2) Fetch 10 logs; 3) Plant 5 crops, 4) Delver weapon to NPC, 5) Defend this location, 6) Escort NPC, etc. Each individual piece of the quest will be pretty much everything you've ever seen before.
HOWEVER, the new twist is depending on if each task is accomplished or not, the next quest in line might be different and the world circumstances might change. This is an innovation overall, the question is how different will it be once you've seen the quest chain play out a couple times. Probably not too different. But if they have a ton of these quest chains it sounds like a better way to do questing no doubt.
Exactly correct. It's undoubtedly an improvement, and the fact that it encourages exploration in what looks to be a very beautiful game world is a step in the right direction. However, it's not the be all-end all system that people seem to think it is. It's the next step in the evolutionary process, but when you break down the dynamic events, many of them are nothing more than a series of generic quest objectives. The improvement comes from the fact that they've removed the linearity from the grind, and encouraged group participation.
The major question regarding the system is what happens when you've seen the various events enough times? Does it get old? I'm afraid it probably will. Arena Net boasts having thousands of these different dynamic events throughout the world, but you have to wonder exactly how many of them are TRULY different from each other. I mean, if you've done one event where the first few quests are kill 10 pigs, deliver this item to this farmer, repel this attack from these invaders, kill this boss...and then you go to a new area that tells you to kill 10 rats, deliver a different item to a different farmer, repel a different set of invaders, and kill a differrent boss...is it really unique? I'm just interested to see how many variations of the same basic event we are going to see throughout the world. I can see those getting pretty old pretty quick if they don't have enough variety, much like the Rifts and Invasions did in Rift.
Can't lie...the game world and environment look pretty damn awesome though. That alone will get me to at least try the game for a while.
Every single game gets old. No game can hold an interest forever.
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2 Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
Comments
Huh?
No, that is still open zone pvp. It is like Wintergrasp without a timer on steroids. I've never heard, before this game came around, anyone refer to a game that had a zone where you were flagged for pvp, but you couldn't pvp anywhere else but battlegrounds as an open world pvp game. Because it isn't by definition. You cannot go in 24 of the 25 zones and pvp in them. You only get to pvp in 1 out of 25 zones.
Anyone trying to make the argument that WvWvW is actually open world PvP simply doesn't know what open world PvP is. What GW2 has is large scale INSTANCED PvP objectives. That's it. It's not part of the actual gameworld...it's completely separate. Hence...NOT open world. It's no different than a large scale, 2 week battleground that you don't have to queue for. Now maybe it's not technically "instanced" by definition, but I consider anything in which a group of people is pulled out of the gameworld into another area and sectioned off via loading screen an "instance."
Open World PvP means you can PvP anwhere in the world you want. There is a sense of danger while out questing because you are constantly looking over your shoulder for the other guy. There is always the possibility that random skirmishes will break out between the two sides at any point, if it's instituted correctly.
It's a very simple concept, yet some of the GW2 fans on this thread who are arguing that GW2 is "open world" simply can't seem to grasp it.
So... is EvE online not really open world PvP either because you can't "really" PvP in high sec besides suicide ganking?
Or are you counting Faction and war decs too?
Doesn't sound very OPEN if there are so many rules and limitations.
And how is EvE an open world/galaxy when every.single.system is its own zone?
Or is there a way to travel from one system to another without gates or jump drives no one told me about?
Every time I jumped to a new system in EvE I saw my ship and the surroundings "pop" (unload/load)
I mean, doesn't sound open if you can't just wander from one system to the next at sublight/warp.
This ^ was done to prove a point - if you break something down enough, get SO incredibly detailed, you can find a way to pretty much discount anything.
What's end game like if you don't have any interest in PVP?
I think some people will complain just to complain and for the whole argument about if this is open world pvp or not. Well.. Daoc wasn't all open pvp and WoW had open world pvp servers and guess how populated those servers were. I like having objectives and a reason to pvp at end game and the person that said Guild Wars 2 pvp is pointless.... Umm. I suggest you need you to stop playing games all together then. What are you looking for really???
Uuugghh!!!! End game? Where is end game? Must have end game! What? No end game? But what I gonna do? Uggghhh!!! Me no stick with this game cos it have no end game. Where is da purple epics? Where is da carrot? Gimme da carrot! I want me a carrot! A purple carrot! Yes!! But this game has no carrots and end game raiding. Everyone likes purple carrots and end game raiding. All mmos MUST have purple carrots and end game raiding cos it is the ONLY way to make an mmo. Mmos are for life! They last for ever and if they dont then they are poo! Yes! I am thinking for myself! Yes! I have not been brain washed by endless piles of purple carrots. No! What? You dont want carrots or end game raiding? You is stupid then! Uuugghh!!
Oh my god lol. They never stop ha ha ha! The stagnation of the mmo world has really left its mark on so many minds
Exploration vid was v good. I think Daniel Docieu has done a good job "watching others play GW2", I enjoy watching GW2 as well!!
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
I do know what you mean and it is indeed hopeless and terribly tragic. People have become so conditioned by seeing the same stuff in mmos that they are just no longer capable of thinking of anything else. They are just addicted to the same old routine
'Why hasn't anyone answered this question.
What CAN you do if you don't want quests/random events (or pvp)?
The hype is reaching critical mass
MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB
Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP
Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts
Are the quests and radom events kill ten rabbits etc?
hmmm do I sense a little bit of Skyrim here?
Unfortunately each step in these dynamic quest chains are basically the same as any other MMO. 1) Kill 10 rats, 2) Fetch 10 logs; 3) Plant 5 crops, 4) Delver weapon to NPC, 5) Defend this location, 6) Escort NPC, etc. Each individual piece of the quest will be pretty much everything you've ever seen before.
HOWEVER, the new twist is depending on if each task is accomplished or not, the next quest in line might be different and the world circumstances might change. This is an innovation overall, the question is how different will it be once you've seen the quest chain play out a couple times. Probably not too different. But if they have a ton of these quest chains it sounds like a better way to do questing no doubt.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Thanks for the info.
Well yes, EVE has a sharded (but persistant) universe. But allow me to disprove your proving of a point by going even further, Spock
The PVP in EVE is what most people refer to as "open". You are in fact able to attack anyone, anywhere, anytime (except for docked peoples), only in high sec the consequences are kind of brutal if you didn't bribe concord with a little war dec ISK, in low sec gate guns will fire on you and you still get a sec hit, but most systems (0.0 + W-space) are completely FFA.
Also, talking about persistance: EVE is ONE "server" (I know, technically it isn't but you know what I mean: one world, one community).
If you'd impose the GW2 model on EVE you'd have to disable pvp in all but a few systems and have people fight for control and over premade objectives, (rather than their own, player made ones) in just those few systems ... and reset everything after two week periods ...
Imagine that. Haha! I pitty the dev who would have to announce such a measure to the EVE community
Anyway, you can't really compare them. We can either keep going on with the semantics debate on what "instance" means or let it slide. I prefered the latter option.
My brand new bloggity blog.
I've heard a lot of reports from all over the place that there is a lack of tutorials in the game at the moment, but that ANet are planning on making more of them available in time for release. I'd assume that is what that comment is refering to.
Exactly correct. It's undoubtedly an improvement, and the fact that it encourages exploration in what looks to be a very beautiful game world is a step in the right direction. However, it's not the be all-end all system that people seem to think it is. It's the next step in the evolutionary process, but when you break down the dynamic events, many of them are nothing more than a series of generic quest objectives. The improvement comes from the fact that they've removed the linearity from the grind, and encouraged group participation.
The major question regarding the system is what happens when you've seen the various events enough times? Does it get old? I'm afraid it probably will. Arena Net boasts having thousands of these different dynamic events throughout the world, but you have to wonder exactly how many of them are TRULY different from each other. I mean, if you've done one event where the first few quests are kill 10 pigs, deliver this item to this farmer, repel this attack from these invaders, kill this boss...and then you go to a new area that tells you to kill 10 rats, deliver a different item to a different farmer, repel a different set of invaders, and kill a differrent boss...is it really unique? I'm just interested to see how many variations of the same basic event we are going to see throughout the world. I can see those getting pretty old pretty quick if they don't have enough variety, much like the Rifts and Invasions did in Rift.
Can't lie...the game world and environment look pretty damn awesome though. That alone will get me to at least try the game for a while.
More of the same, i love guildwars games but i will be skipping this one.
Another game being madly overhyped pre-release - haven't seen this happen before, have we?
QFT. I guess the lucky ones get to wait a bit...or maybe till April 11th? Fun thread to read though, cheers.
I don't recall a time where the press actually went out of their way to make a point of saying that this is definately not overhype.
That alone is something to consider in and of itself.
Every single game gets old. No game can hold an interest forever.
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
We haven't seen Guild Wars 2 before either...