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Why did this game fail?

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  • randomtrandomt no thanks, BCPosts: 1,180Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by 4bsolute

    Never have seen a single ressurected MMO in 14years. Have you?


    Ryzom got rezzed a few times, pretty sure there are others. (If you don't know ryzom and haven't at least finished it's newbie island trial.. you are missing out on a fine example what mmo atmospherics and environments should be like heh)

    ----
    What?

  • SmikisSmikis VilniusPosts: 1,045Member

    horrible engine and even worse server hardware, game launched with 500 server limits, 250 per side ( yes it was side locked )

    and because of insane zone layout, which basicaly was 3 paths, 2 faction each, that meant 6 different zones for those 500 people for each lvl, elves vs dark elves, humans vs chaos? orks vs something i forgot,,  it was desert game, you couldnt find anything due insanely low caps and how world map was done

    and then engine which got worse with every patch, while being good in beta, it was memory leakage month after launch.

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,660Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Dragim

    They failed because they chose to fail in my opinon.

    In beta, they had a LOT of awesome ideas, that they chose just not to impliment, or they implimented them half arsed.

    Like...the "stuff" you could attach to your armor, that was VERY lackluster, but in beta the idea for it was AWESOME.

    Cities....There were SUPPOSED to be 3 major cities on each side, they never made it past 1 for each side.

    The RvR lakes/reason for doing seiges were kinda botched.  Seiges were more of RvDoor than RvR.  Often times you would find yourself breaking down a keep door, with the entire force of your enemy just sitting in the Lord room waiting for you.  (I guess this kinda makes sense.)

    But there was a serious lack of actual OPEN PvP...(open being, you fighting without one side hiding behind keep doors.)

    They HAD good ideas, but implimented them very poorly.  I wonder if the game company who owns WAR had something to do with that...

     

    The lack of actual open PvP is one of the things that they improved a few patches ago witht he revamp of RvR mechanics. I know a lot of people complain about the RvR changes and say theyre somehow more boring, but i find having to keep multiples groups spread across all 4 BOs in order to get and keep control of them while constantly having small skirmishes until the keeps rank up, and then having to run & protect ram carriers  more interesting than "everyone zerg the door quick before any enemies show up".

     


    Originally posted by randomt

     




    Originally posted by 4bsolute

     

    Never have seen a single ressurected MMO in 14years. Have you?



     

    Ryzom got rezzed a few times, pretty sure there are others. (If you don't know ryzom and haven't at least finished it's newbie island trial.. you are missing out on a fine example what mmo atmospherics and environments should be like heh)


     

     

    Yeah Ryzom made a decent comeback at several points. As did DDO, big time, and AoC about a year or so after its launch and big fixes were made.

     

  • Crunchy221Crunchy221 Trollsberg, ILPosts: 489Member

    Its unfortunate you cant speak about a game without the wow reference, but the poster who said that the goal of every 2007 release, and many many after up untill today, claims they will one up that game.

    With that said..what mythic did well, and what DAOC did well...wow cloned in battlegrounds (as well as simplified)

    What WAR did well was to simplify their own DAOC success by making their BGs...well 2 faction BGs..however another game already simplifed what they did well so...it wasnt new.

    Other than that...WAR brought little to the table.  Yes PQ and world events (much like rift but not as intense and more fixed location) were great ideas but this leads me to another reason why WAR failed to be the hit it was suppose to be.

     

    The community:  Back in the DAOC days...pvp was a game, it was fun, sure you want to win...but it was just a game and participating was the fun part.  Skip ahed to modern gamers and WAR...it was very diffrent...losing cannot be tolerated.

    So what should have been non stop world RvR turned into avoiding the other faction and grinding up renown gear so they could then not lose in pvp should it occur...which it didnt.  After lv10 it was running in circles in a giant warband (sometimes if you werent in the one or two that formed you had to sit out world "rvr")

    What happend was people had an intensely fun 10 levels, moved on, then the game changed to avoiding world pvp, running battleground, or ...solo pve...public quests were deemed not worthy of the effort and so most were empty and people were unable to complete or attempt them.  Everyone was grinding BG and rvr renown.  When large rvr pvp occured it was choke point/aoe mess where the bigger zerg won...never once saw strategy.

    Then finally you hit endgame only to find the sieges didnt play as you thought and were buggy (i spent like a few days at endgame and i left so i wont go into detail about the endgame issues)  more importatly people started leaving during the 11-39 experience in avoiding pvp because people dont like to lose.

    Had gamers wanted to pvp for the sheer joy, en mass, world rvr might have been fun enough for many players, and retain them. 

    Truth was nothing worked as intended because of the current pvp mindset, and everything unique and fun about DAOC had been dumbed down simplified and was already being done by another game.

    Also, due to the look and lore (something wow ripped off from this IP) you knew there was going to be trouble when during open beta a huge guild called "WoW is better" was gaining new members every day....despite that was by far the most enjoyable time to play the game...open beta 1-10 was epically fun, as was 11-20 shortly after...then the community wanted to run circles avoid the other faction and gear up move on and repeate.

  • MmocountMmocount Reno, NVPosts: 194Member



    Originally posted by Crunchy221

    The community:  Back in the DAOC days...pvp was a game, it was fun, sure you want to win...but it was just a game and participating was the fun part.  Skip ahed to modern gamers and WAR...it was very diffrent...losing cannot be tolerated.

    You seem to be trying to blame the players here for not playing the game the right way, but in my opinion the game is at fault for simply rewarding the wrong stuff.

    Sure, in Daoc everyone tended to go out and bash heads. But it also happened to be the best and only way to get your RP's, by killing people.

    WAR, is still a progression based game, and the fastest progression simply came from doing the wrong things. You can't blame people for taking the fastest path, especially not a game based on competition.

  • gothagotha weymouth, MAPosts: 1,040Member

    to be honest this game was riddled with crap game design.  The linear leveling was bad but the PvP setup was crap.  3 separate war on 12 battlefields.  If they went 3 factions even with wow style questing they would of been fine.  The PvE content would of been better due to them having to make less.

     

     

     

  • grapevinegrapevine PeterboroughPosts: 1,927Member

    What killed it far me was upon release it was content heavy at low levels, but as you progressed became thin and less polished.

  • ste2000ste2000 londonPosts: 4,706Member Uncommon

    "Why did this game fail?"

    1 word...........Shallow

    Like almost every AAA MMO released the last 5 years

  • dllddlld GöteborgPosts: 542Member Uncommon

    Well personally, performance. I bought it I had (then) close to recommended speccs but it was totally unplayable at lowest settings for me.

  • ArconaArcona VanlosePosts: 1,185Member

    they should have made DAOC 2 instead, sad panda.

     

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,232Member Uncommon

    one word: circle zer.....

    two words: circle zerg!

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • TeknoBugTeknoBug Calgary, ABPosts: 2,156Member

    Follow SWTOR carefully, you'll get a familiar sense if you've played WAR. What happened in WAR will happen again in SWTOR, Bioware calls Mythic the "best pvp team in the industry", HAH! So far they're wrecking part of the game that has NOTHING to do with pvp.

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  • OtomoxOtomox HoooooPosts: 303Member

    Could anyone tell me why WAR isnt going F2P if even AOC and Aion in EU are now Free to Play? I mean this game had his problems but the pvp is still ten times better than any f2p game out there.

  • zephermarkuszephermarkus qunatico, MDPosts: 201Member

    Originally posted by Yamota

    I mean it brought alot of nice features to the MMORPG genre. Such as ability to viably level from level 1 to cap by doing just PvP,  PQ, defensive and offensive targetting, interesting mechanics like that of the BW and Disciple of Khaine.

    Yet it recently announced merging of yet another round of servers to a total of two or three, globally, and probably will shut down completely before the end of the year.

    But why is that? I for one spent 400+ hours playing it so it isn't that bad. Reason I left was because the end-game was/is junk, maybe that is it?

    It wasn.t Dark age of Camelot 2.0 like alot of mythic fans thought it was gong to be that is the main reason it failed so hard, they should  never have change the pvp at all from daoc. The game should have been Dark age with wahammer skins as far as pvp goes the game would have crushed eveything.

  • dinamsdinams Muriae, VAPosts: 1,362Member

    Mythic do not know in what to focus their game

    They gave equal attention to RvR, BG's, PvE etc.. and sorta became jack of all trades master of none turning all the aspects of that game a bit shallow

    Although the PvP aspect was not as bad, but more due to a DAOC inheritance

    "It has potential"
    -Second most used phrase on existence
    "It sucks"
    -Most used phrase on existence

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    2 words
    Electronic & arts
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Hardly anyone from original mythic works at ea/bioware. I find it hilarious all these bioware fanbois blaming swtor on mythic or the hero engine. The blame lays with bioware.

    P.s. war while flawed was a better mmo than swtor, at least you saw more than 10 other players on screen.
  • TheHavokTheHavok San Jose, CAPosts: 2,398Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Yamota

    I mean it brought alot of nice features to the MMORPG genre. Such as ability to viably level from level 1 to cap by doing just PvP,  PQ, defensive and offensive targetting, interesting mechanics like that of the BW and Disciple of Khaine.

    Yet it recently announced merging of yet another round of servers to a total of two or three, globally, and probably will shut down completely before the end of the year.

    But why is that? I for one spent 400+ hours playing it so it isn't that bad. Reason I left was because the end-game was/is junk, maybe that is it?

    I had a HUGE amount of hype for Warhammer.  I pre-ordered the collector's edition the day it was announced.  I thought it was going to be the next big MMO, or at the very least, the next MMO I played for a long time.  I researched the Warhammer universe, I followed Paul Barnet and Jeff Hickman's commentaries and videos, I went to some shady websites to get beta footage, I planned out what class and spec I was going to be for each beta event, preview weekend, and release.

    Then I played the game.  I wasn't disappointed at first, I just wasn't wowed.  I made excuses to myself like "the game is still in beta" or "it will get better next patch".  But it didn't in fact, things got worse.  I think the moment that really stands out to me, the moment that kind of set the pace for my experience was when, during the first hour I was playing, I jumped on a fence and I watched the spastic, choppy animation that followed as the model and the fence did not get along and did not know how to interact with the game's built in gravity and ground.

    What I truly didn't like, and I remember similar players expressing this opinion, was that the game had a ton of features, a ton of aspects to the game (which there should be in an mmorpg), but most if not all of those aspects and features felt like they were 75% complete, like Mythic had somehow started working on it but then cut a corner to complete it.

    I remember just seeing things and being like "well, why didn't they just do it like this instead..?"

    The development was just sloppy.  The management was even worse - they were actually HOSTILE towards the community.  I know mmorpg players are probably those most loathing, vile type of online personalities you will ever find - but you need to rely on those nerds to make you successful, so don't piss them off.

    Some quick things I can remember that really made me think less and less of WAR:

    -No server forums

    -Terrible class balance (Brightwizard and Sorc being the most broken and powerful at launch)

    -New classes always being way stronger then their older counterparts.

    -Gear being ingame for classes that had been removed.

    -Boring and tedious "public quest"

    -getting the same gear models over and over and over again

    -Crafting and gathering being a COMPLETE joke

    -Laggy servers. (It took me 5 minutes to open up a message in my mailbox.)

    -TERRIBLE cities that nobody hung out in just to hang out. 

    -poorly designed keep system that players soon realized was a joke so they would just trade keeps instead.

    -bad collector's edition items (both in-game and out of game)

    -the major announcements always being posted by third party fansites

    -generally slow gamegamplay

    -Issues with the GCD not being in sync with abilities triggering (Funny enough SWTOR had a similar issue)

    -Exploitable Scenario objects

    -Paul Barnet repeatedly saying how amazing war was going to be and then...it wasn't

    -EA

    -Emphasis on aoe damage and heals (I would die in scenarios as a witch hunter without actually being focused by anybody)

    Warhammer did have some good ideas though.  Their ability to have on offensive target and a defensive target was great to see even though it was already in other games.  Their resouce system was fun.  Their classes abilities were interesting (except the aoe ones).  They allowed AOE.  They tried to balance the factions.  Unfortunately they had WAY to many issues in their game.

     

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    Originally posted by TheHavok

    Originally posted by Yamota

    I mean it brought alot of nice features to the MMORPG genre. Such as ability to viably level from level 1 to cap by doing just PvP,  PQ, defensive and offensive targetting, interesting mechanics like that of the BW and Disciple of Khaine.

    Yet it recently announced merging of yet another round of servers to a total of two or three, globally, and probably will shut down completely before the end of the year.

    But why is that? I for one spent 400+ hours playing it so it isn't that bad. Reason I left was because the end-game was/is junk, maybe that is it?

    I had a HUGE amount of hype for Warhammer.

    ...

    -EA

    ...

     

    Somehow I feel that was the root cause somehow. I think Mythic really wanted to continue with the multifaction capitals and flesh the game out more before releasing it but I am pretty sure EA was on their back to make it more WoW like, i.e. only two factions, and release it ASAP so they can get their Return of Investment.

    I am baffled why smaller MMORPG companies work with EA because they seem to ruin every MMORPG they get their hands on. For me it has noticeably been Ultima Online, WAR and now their latest screwup, SW:TOR. They should simply be forbidden from being part of MMORPG production, they are doing NO good. But they are making money so then is alright then, right?

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Hmm, well PvE was horrid. HORRID. As some have said, they hype was too much as usual. The game was unfinished with many bugs. There was no community because of the instant scenario queue. Those are the main reasons I can think of.

    I actually did enjoy the PvP in WAR, at least some of it. There just wasn't enough incentive for world PvP at launch and the world PvP now isn't great. It's too bad too, could have been a decent time-waster.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • MmocountMmocount Reno, NVPosts: 194Member

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by TheHavok


    Originally posted by Yamota

    I mean it brought alot of nice features to the MMORPG genre. Such as ability to viably level from level 1 to cap by doing just PvP,  PQ, defensive and offensive targetting, interesting mechanics like that of the BW and Disciple of Khaine.

    Yet it recently announced merging of yet another round of servers to a total of two or three, globally, and probably will shut down completely before the end of the year.

    But why is that? I for one spent 400+ hours playing it so it isn't that bad. Reason I left was because the end-game was/is junk, maybe that is it?

    I had a HUGE amount of hype for Warhammer.

    ...

    -EA

    ...

     

    Somehow I feel that was the root cause somehow. I think Mythic really wanted to continue with the multifaction capitals and flesh the game out more before releasing it but I am pretty sure EA was on their back to make it more WoW like, i.e. only two factions, and release it ASAP so they can get their Return of Investment.

    I am baffled why smaller MMORPG companies work with EA because they seem to ruin every MMORPG they get their hands on. For me it has noticeably been Ultima Online, WAR and now their latest screwup, SW:TOR. They should simply be forbidden from being part of MMORPG production, they are doing NO good. But they are making money so then is alright then, right?

     

    The 2 faction decision was made looooong before EA came into the picture.

  • HauvarnHauvarn Walker, LAPosts: 220Member

    EA killed this game.  It could have been really good, but ea took over mythic and made them push out the game so they could capitalize on the hype it was generating.  I mean cmon it didn't even launch with all of the classes in the game.

    Yes I played SWTOR.

  • Greymantle4Greymantle4 Posts: 803Member Uncommon

    What killed the game for my wife and I.

     

    Crafting on a 1 to 10 was  neg 10

    PVE was lacking content and on rails.

    PQ was hard to complete when not enough people around. This was common.

    Open PVP areas were empty for the most part for everone was doing battle grounds.

    Bugs, Bugs, Bugs....

     

    Didn't last past the 30 days...

  • MmocountMmocount Reno, NVPosts: 194Member

    Originally posted by Hauvarn

    EA killed this game.  It could have been really good, but ea took over mythic and made them push out the game so they could capitalize on the hype it was generating.  I mean cmon it didn't even launch with all of the classes in the game.

    No they didn't. They extended and funded the development for a whole year beyond it's planned release before pushing it out the door. You can't blame EA that the game still wasn't finished despite that, it obviously wasn't helping Mythic finish the game considering in what state it still released in. And despite that, they'd been claiming the game was practically done for a whole *year* already. All they were supposedly doing was 'polishing' it. (the new hip word that World of Warcraft introduced)

  • palulalulapalulalula vukovarPosts: 655Member

    O yes it is shame, war had so big potential and almost same lore as warcraft but something was not on same level as in wow

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