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Guild Wars has always had a cash shop.

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  • evictonevicton Warren, PAPosts: 398Member

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by Madimorga

    I guess explaining isn't going to do any good.  What you say is true, but some people have either never experienced this for themselves and can't conceive of it, or they're so desperate to play GW2 that they refuse to see it.  Either way, in a few months when they start feeling fleeced because they're constantly buying gems to trade for gold while their poorer guild members stop playing entirely due to having to grind up their own gold, they'll see the light.

    Dude, do you really need that money in a GW game?

    I mean once you have any lvl 80 armor and weapon you are more or less set, and you get one armor piece every time you complete a dungeon so the only thing you really need money for is runes.

    I think people are forgetting how little items matters here. The only thing you really need money for in GW1 is to get more armor, weapons and minipets to score more points in hall of monuments. Well, there it also unlocks stuff in the guildhall and you can buy skills for it, but they have a seperate system for that in GW2.

    The game is really more about having fun when you play then to horde riches, i don't think it will get much of an economy just like GW, gems or not.

    People will use gems for a few things though, mainly to unlock bank and character slots. 

    I played GW for over 5 years, first time ever i felt that I needed some money was after they added HoM.

    This game will have money sinks in it, Martin has already said so..This whole you won't need money arguement is flawed.

    Is there gold sinks? Yup

    Will you need gold for the gold sinks? Pretty sure

    So then then you'll need gold for the gold sinks? Yup

    I agree there wasn't really any gold sinks in GW1 but when Martan is on Guru telling people theres gonna be gold sinks so gold is not gonna be useless it defeat the whole argument of gold not being worth anything.

    edited as it was Martin and not mike that made the qoute I am refering to..

    Why would you need gold

    I remember a lengthy discussion about having to spend gold on respeccing trades, or spending it on traveling etc.



    We do have gold sinks in the game as well. You can't just take one aspect of the game and view it in a vacuum, things are connected.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,905Member Uncommon

    lag DP?!?!

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,205Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh



    Originally posted by Pigozz





    Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

     


    I'll take your arguement as valid. I have no reason not to. But PVP events are only one aspect of this game no?

    otherwise you'll end up with a very small PVP e-sport niche game.

     

    But my my question is...Are there any game that did it right?




    League of Legends without a doubt



    Never played it, so I have no argument.

    But at the same time, Is LoL a true MMO? I thought it was a lobby based PVP game.

    Just to answer my own question earlier about boosters - yest LoL sells boosters (advantage items) in the Riot store.  How does this make LoL better?  Why do people always seem to conviently pass over the advantage items sold in a store and claim it only sells "fluff" or appearance items?

    I have never seen a cash shop that only ever sold "fluff".  Anything sold in a cash shop is an advantage (not just boosts) over those who must take the time to play the game.  This is true for pve as well as pvp.

    Guild Wars sells advantage items in the store.  It sells storage slots which give players a huge advantage in being able to store extra runes, weapons, and armour along with consumables.  They sell a max stat weapon pack that players can use to outfit their characters and their heroes.  Not only does this mean characters don't have to spend resources on buying/farming them, but they can start off at max power immediately.  They sell skill packs so pvp players don't have to spend points/time farming skills in pve.  They sell cosmetic appearances that are store exclusives so if you really want to look somewhat unique and nicer than standard armour you must spend cash in the shop.

    I don't really like that it's in Guild Wars and I certainly don't like that it's going to be expanded upon in Guild Wars 2 which is an open world MMO.  The cash shop in GW2 will have a far greater reach than the store in GW1.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,205Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by Madimorga

    I guess explaining isn't going to do any good.  What you say is true, but some people have either never experienced this for themselves and can't conceive of it, or they're so desperate to play GW2 that they refuse to see it.  Either way, in a few months when they start feeling fleeced because they're constantly buying gems to trade for gold while their poorer guild members stop playing entirely due to having to grind up their own gold, they'll see the light.

    Dude, do you really need that money in a GW game?

    I mean once you have any lvl 80 armor and weapon you are more or less set, and you get one armor piece every time you complete a dungeon so the only thing you really need money for is runes.

    I think people are forgetting how little items matters here. The only thing you really need money for in GW1 is to get more armor, weapons and minipets to score more points in hall of monuments. Well, there it also unlocks stuff in the guildhall and you can buy skills for it, but they have a seperate system for that in GW2.

    The game is really more about having fun when you play then to horde riches, i don't think it will get much of an economy just like GW, gems or not.

    People will use gems for a few things though, mainly to unlock bank and character slots. 

    I played GW for over 5 years, first time ever i felt that I needed some money was after they added HoM.

    Being able to buy gold or circumvent time sinks will be huge in Guidl Wars.  Many of the achievements in the game are centered around time sinks.  The titles for consumables (drunkard, sugar rush, partier, etc) can be fast tracked by purchasing the items.  In a game with no real character progression (all horizontal - no vertical) these sorts of time sinks and achievements make up a big part of the game.

    If there is a system in GW2 like farming Greens in GW1 then buying cash and being able to purchase the best weapon/item configurations will make a big impact.

  • GeeTeeEffOhGeeTeeEffOh Newington, CTPosts: 731Member


    Originally posted by Madimorga


    Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
     


    Originally posted by Pigozz


    Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh



    The answer to your question is in the post you quoted
    HINT: "Once people can get their purchases into the overall economy, then you have a Cash Shop driven Meta-Game."

    Gems are bought only for money, and money are earned ONLY via playing,then there are money sinks and gems are spent...
    So no..CS will not drive the economy of the game as people need to "create" the gold through playing

     
    And you know this because?????????
    Let me explain something. When you start introducing money sinks to compensate for the influx of gems bought from the CS, you are literally destroying the potential for a non gem buyer to earn money. Everything they do will be barely enough to keep their head above water just to play the game let alone amass any wealth for themselves.

    I guess explaining isn't going to do any good.  What you say is true, but some people have either never experienced this for themselves and can't conceive of it, or they're so desperate to play GW2 that they refuse to see it.  Either way, in a few months when they start feeling fleeced because they're constantly buying gems to trade for gold while their poorer guild members stop playing entirely due to having to grind up their own gold, they'll see the light.

    I agree. I have to wonder based on your avatar if our mutual experience was from the same game/company. LOL


    we talk of experience. It was amazing...in a bad way. to watch a game played and enjoyed for years without a cash shop, suddenly get one and then to see the transformation that occurred within that game over the course of a year.


    The influences from the CS are so subtle. They gradually shift the player base's entire method for logging in and playing the game.


    Seeing people who initially rose up against the company in opposition to the CS start to use it for personal items, then start to use it to resell for ingame money (Which by the way was almost forced by the company to make it happen. Farming the old fashioned was were intentionally nerfed....Oh for other reasons mind you. Reasons that existed in game for years and yeas and now all the sudden there is a cash shop, having ways in game to earn money is bad and needs to be nerfed?


    Anyway, they went from Opposing to bugeting for it because it was easier than farming...which became even more difficult. That was a spiral that was going down.

    And It was upsetting to watch as the company paid very close attention to things in the game that frustrated players. And these were valid concerns about the game. Rather than fix their content, they put "Items of convenience" in the shop.

    To look at that cash shop now and say..It looks OK. Nothing too bad......Well, yeah, been there too.


    Now, GW2 will have it from the onset, so there will be no transformation, But know what I saw, I can assure you, it will never live up to it's full potential of what it could be.

  • PigozzPigozz CPosts: 842Member

    Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

     








     

    I

    To look at that cash shop now and say..It looks OK. Nothing too bad......Well, yeah, been there too.



    Now, GW2 will have it from the onset, so there will be no transformation, But know what I saw, I can assure you, it will never live up to it's full potential of what it could be.

    What game are you talking about please?

    I'd like to look into that

    MMOs played chronologically:
    Runescape,Lineage II, WoW,Tabula Rasa, AoC,Eve Online,Guild Wars, Rift(beta only),SWTOR(beta only),Star Trek Online
    Most fun: Tabula Rasa
    image

  • GeeTeeEffOhGeeTeeEffOh Newington, CTPosts: 731Member

     Earlier in this thread I posted this......This is how it all started. But the second was from an earlier post It explains what happened after it was implemented

     


    Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

    As I have said before:

    "Don't tell me your philosophy until I know your policy"

    What he said means nothing. Just because they "believe" in it doesn't mean they won't do it.

    I am not impresseed and I have seen it before.

     Announcement Concerning a New Anarchy Online In-Game Store

    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/showthread.php?t=583369

    [snipet]

    That being said I just said "Item Store". Before anyone gets upset (probably already too late) speculating about us selling BOC or RBP in this store let me assure you that the general guidelines we set out years ago of not selling "power" for money is still very much in force. The items/services available from the store will focus on social and convenience uses only.ON

    One week later:

    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/showthread.php?t=583660

    If my explanation of this in the previous thread caused any confusion I apologize as it was not my intention to deceive anyone on the subject. It is already possible to generate a great deal of this "advantage" through the expenditure of credits in-game and I'm certain we can all admit where some of these credits are coming from...this is a much more secure alternative for everyone.

    Guess what?

    It's 100% hands down no holds barred total P2W shop.

     


    Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

    Originally posted by Theocritus

            Alot of people are bashing FUncom in this thread, but I'm here to tell you that I have played AO since 2005 and haven't spent a dime yet......Yeah they may put things in the cash shop that some players feel aren't fair but you don't have to buy them......Same with AoC...You dont have to spend a dime to play....Quit blaming the companies when the fault lies with the consumers.

    You are 100% correct. you do not need to spend a dime in the cash shop. But the player next to you is. He's buying Tokens and OFAB Armor.  

    Well, so what? Tokens are just mission points and OFAB is only best in slot for 1 to 3 pieces.

    But they aren't buying them to use them, they are buying them to re-sell them ingame for hundreds of millions of credits a pop.

    From there, that player will reach out and contact people like this guy

    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/showthread.php?t=597467 (if he's offline,  Don't worry there are many more like him)

    Who will be happy to take those credits the other player just traded tokens that were paid for with real Dollars/Euros

    He will level the other player's character from 1 to 220 (for about 1/2 billion cr) and then equip him with every piece of NODROP best in slot raid gear in the game. Because FunCom love Loot Right sellers. Afterall, those Loot Right Sellers encourage cash shop purchases. Why else would such a broken mechanic exist in a game where up to 30 minutes after a boss dies, anyone in the game can be warped in and brought into the team and allowed to loot? For a hefty fee of course.

    Don't believ me? FC outright killed 2 of the markets in the game wher eplayers can earn money prior to endgame. (S10--No more bounties and Token Guns People don't buy the guns anymore, they resell token packs)  

    Why did they do that? CS sales went up. Before I left, all those die hard anti cash shop players who voiced so many concerns were now all talking about how much they were personally bugeting for the cash shop.....It's just easier than farming.

     This is how AO is done now. Not rare, not uncommon, but prevalent. Just look at that thread, it's one of many and there is no lack of people posting for his "service".

    Good luck finding groups now too. And once Ao goes live with the instant level packs (yes, that's correct, by a buff that grants instant levels...BOOM level one to level 220 at the right click of a button.) That's going to do wonders for the people in LFT.

    And let's not forget the already over priced AAA sub fee they still charge.

    Way to kill a game FC. Good Job!


     

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