Well, this and Salem makes two upcoming mmos for me to totally forget about now. If I want permadeath, I'll jump off a real life bridge.
I guess you didnt read my post just above yours then. Only the head of a guild who runs one of the cities is ever even at risk so permadeath is only for those who want to risk it.
So obtaining the "top spot" is still unattainable without having the risk of losing everything I worked for in the game prior.
No thanks, I'll stay away.
Fair enough, but I imagine you wouldn't get to the top 10 (guesswork) players in a sandbox game if you weren't a bit of a risktaker.
Ah if thats how it works, the permadeath bit doesn't seem like it would be as bad. I was thinking at first a Prince could just have players characters destroyed if they didn't pay them "tribute" or tell him he was as awesome as he wanted to hear, basically what would happen in an MMO if someone with power could dictate whos character gets destroyed. Almost had an image or every guild in the city having to pay a "Sacrafice" of the Prince's choosing every month or something.
Guessing the Prince dude has that power, but has some "Protection" removed where they can perma die too? Eh guessing its too early to know for sure, kind of interesting though.
And in the past we've seen how well bugs work in these games, what if the first person finally reaches the prince and he bugs out instantly killing everyone who walks through the door, not a very good thing to place in an mmo imo, if you want permadeath go outside IRL . This kind of immersion really isn't all the well planned usually and ends up being a bigger pain in the long run. They've tried it before just like they tried gear scores before look how well that worked.
Hmm, instead of only the prince being able to permadie, if suddenly "everyone who walked through the door" permadied, don't you honk the developers might just step in at that point, this is not the game for you I fear, stay away in case your fears dilute it.
Clearly it's not, and i don't "honk" the devs will step in fast enough. It's already bad enough that at launch they won't be including the five other major player factions that were in their game before their dice game's end of the world scenario completed. It's sad really that they aren't including the very thing that made their dice game great at launch. I'm sorry but waiting for these games like this and watching them put things like this into a game not to be outside the box but to just stunt the character's development is the last straw imo.
I'll be sure to give the high level guys driving firetrucks with heavy lasers attached that their character development is stunted in the permadeath MMO I play.
Incase you don't know about WW and VtM / WoD, i suggest you read on it a bit.. Final death is what they're propably talking about here, and in VtM final death isn't that easily gained
This seems to have become twisted and people are saying the Prince will be affected by Permadeath. That's not what was said. Watch the linked youtube file and it's very clear. The Prince can call a Blood Hunt on someone, probably for a major infraction of the Masquerade (that's my best guess), and that player can then be hunted down and killed. Nobody said that only Princes can be killed.
They clearly said that a Blood Hunt can result in permadeath, and only a Prince can call a Blood Hunt.
It's amazing how quickly a very simple statement can be twisted into something else.
We had a lesson in that in the 3rd grade (yes I can remember that far back). We all sat in a circle, and the teacher whispered a phrase to the person next to her. It was whispered around until it got back to the teacher. At that point, it was a different phrase entirely. I have never forgotten that lesson.
The permadeath aspect doesnt bother me as long as there are safeguards in place to prevent player(s) having a bad day from taking it out on other players.....if player have this power.
**** Raving Rabbid wants his WOD now dammit! ****
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care. Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
This seems to have become twisted and people are saying the Prince will be affected by Permadeath. That's not what was said. Watch the linked youtube file and it's very clear. The Prince can call a Blood Hunt on someone, probably for a major infraction of the Masquerade (that's my best guess), and that player can then be hunted down and killed. Nobody said that only Princes can be killed.
They clearly said that a Blood Hunt can result in permadeath, and only a Prince can call a Blood Hunt.
It's amazing how quickly a very simple statement can be twisted into something else.
Well, this and Salem makes two upcoming mmos for me to totally forget about now. If I want permadeath, I'll jump off a real life bridge.
I guess you didnt read my post just above yours then. Only the head of a guild who runs one of the cities is ever even at risk so permadeath is only for those who want to risk it.
So obtaining the "top spot" is still unattainable without having the risk of losing everything I worked for in the game prior.
No thanks, I'll stay away.
Fair enough, but I imagine you wouldn't get to the top 10 (guesswork) players in a sandbox game if you weren't a bit of a risktaker.
Ah if thats how it works, the permadeath bit doesn't seem like it would be as bad. I was thinking at first a Prince could just have players characters destroyed if they didn't pay them "tribute" or tell him he was as awesome as he wanted to hear, basically what would happen in an MMO if someone with power could dictate whos character gets destroyed. Almost had an image or every guild in the city having to pay a "Sacrafice" of the Prince's choosing every month or something.
Guessing the Prince dude has that power, but has some "Protection" removed where they can perma die too? Eh guessing its too early to know for sure, kind of interesting though.
And in the past we've seen how well bugs work in these games, what if the first person finally reaches the prince and he bugs out instantly killing everyone who walks through the door, not a very good thing to place in an mmo imo, if you want permadeath go outside IRL . This kind of immersion really isn't all the well planned usually and ends up being a bigger pain in the long run. They've tried it before just like they tried gear scores before look how well that worked.
Hmm, instead of only the prince being able to permadie, if suddenly "everyone who walked through the door" permadied, don't you honk the developers might just step in at that point, this is not the game for you I fear, stay away in case your fears dilute it.
Clearly it's not, and i don't "honk" the devs will step in fast enough. It's already bad enough that at launch they won't be including the five other major player factions that were in their game before their dice game's end of the world scenario completed. It's sad really that they aren't including the very thing that made their dice game great at launch. I'm sorry but waiting for these games like this and watching them put things like this into a game not to be outside the box but to just stunt the character's development is the last straw imo.
I'll be sure to give the high level guys driving firetrucks with heavy lasers attached that their character development is stunted in the permadeath MMO I play.
This seems to have become twisted and people are saying the Prince will be affected by Permadeath. That's not what was said. Watch the linked youtube file and it's very clear. The Prince can call a Blood Hunt on someone, probably for a major infraction of the Masquerade (that's my best guess), and that player can then be hunted down and killed. Nobody said that only Princes can be killed.
They clearly said that a Blood Hunt can result in permadeath, and only a Prince can call a Blood Hunt.
It's amazing how quickly a very simple statement can be twisted into something else.
The two are not mutually exclusive, it is possible a prince may only call a blood hunt on another prince for example.
I disagree. A prince will call Blood Hunt on minions under his control for serious transgressions. It's a form of punishment.
A Prince wanting another Prince bumped off would be classed as an assassination. They're very different things and used in very different situations.
Edit: Having read the massively article, he's got it wrong. Go watch the youtube clip and listen to the founder of CCP. Right from the horses mouth, not some journo who obviously missed the point.
This seems to have become twisted and people are saying the Prince will be affected by Permadeath. That's not what was said. Watch the linked youtube file and it's very clear. The Prince can call a Blood Hunt on someone, probably for a major infraction of the Masquerade (that's my best guess), and that player can then be hunted down and killed. Nobody said that only Princes can be killed. They clearly said that a Blood Hunt can result in permadeath, and only a Prince can call a Blood Hunt. It's amazing how quickly a very simple statement can be twisted into something else.
The two are not mutually exclusive, it is possible a prince may only call a blood hunt on another prince for example.
I disagree. A prince will call Blood Hunt on minions under his control for serious transgressions. It's a form of punishment.
A Prince wanting another Prince bumped off would be classed as an assassination. They're very different things and used in very different situations.
Edit: Having read the massively article, he's got it wrong. Go watch the youtube clip and listen to the founder of CCP. Right from the horses mouth, not some journo who obviously missed the point.
It doesn't say who it can be called on, he doesn't mention minions, he just says he can call it on you. The massively article put it in quotes so that usually means someone said those words. I guess we need more info from CCP to clarify the point.
This seems to have become twisted and people are saying the Prince will be affected by Permadeath. That's not what was said. Watch the linked youtube file and it's very clear. The Prince can call a Blood Hunt on someone, probably for a major infraction of the Masquerade (that's my best guess), and that player can then be hunted down and killed. Nobody said that only Princes can be killed.
They clearly said that a Blood Hunt can result in permadeath, and only a Prince can call a Blood Hunt.
It's amazing how quickly a very simple statement can be twisted into something else.
The two are not mutually exclusive, it is possible a prince may only call a blood hunt on another prince for example.
I disagree. A prince will call Blood Hunt on minions under his control for serious transgressions. It's a form of punishment.
A Prince wanting another Prince bumped off would be classed as an assassination. They're very different things and used in very different situations.
Edit: Having read the massively article, he's got it wrong. Go watch the youtube clip and listen to the founder of CCP. Right from the horses mouth, not some journo who obviously missed the point.
It doesn't say who it can be called on, he doesn't mention minions, he just says he can call it on you. The massively article put it in quotes so that usually means someone said those words. I guess we need more info from CCP to clarify the point.
Not really. If you're at all familiar with the IP then the use of the term "Blood Hunt" should be enough to explain it.
i dont know much about this game other than its from CCP and it has vampires.
So.... permadeath.... that means i will ONLY play this game if its F2P. I have no interest in pay monthly to build a character to max lvl and epic stuff then bam!!!!! permadeath.
edit: it seems theres no levels so still, any kind of progression is broken with permadeath, not for me
Well if you played EvE you'd know there were several severe goofs you had to commit to dying permanently and while the game does have perma death, its rare and some what unlikely. Usually perma death in that game happens like this. Ship explodes but you have an escape pod at that point. Very fast little pod. If that gets blown up you die, but you should have a clone you've set up. You are transferred to said clone and all is well (except for the loss of the ship). Now that you are in your new clone body you need to make a NEW clone as a back up. Forget to make a new clone at any point and you die again, you are gone forever.
Sorry if you already had all that info in your noggin.
Anyways I cant really imagine CCP just having a whack and you're dead forever mechanic here. Id expect death to be a complex and really only attainable by severe player mistake. At least with EvE there was an always an easy back up. You just needed to remember to keep up with that and it was very easy to do.
EDIT: At 30:55 the question on perma death was asked. He says something like, " Regarding permadeath, the Prince of a city (which would be an actual player) calls for a blood hunt, then you can be killed permanently". Just paraphrasing there. So....respect the Prince I guess. : P
Not sure that ever happened in eve, I know for the last 4 years at least there has been no such thing as perma-death in eve. Even if you lose a pod twice, and forget to get a new clone, all you lose is some skillpoints, not sure the exact ammount, I think it's your highest sp skill is wiped, but you don't by any means have to start over.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
This seems to have become twisted and people are saying the Prince will be affected by Permadeath. That's not what was said. Watch the linked youtube file and it's very clear. The Prince can call a Blood Hunt on someone, probably for a major infraction of the Masquerade (that's my best guess), and that player can then be hunted down and killed. Nobody said that only Princes can be killed. They clearly said that a Blood Hunt can result in permadeath, and only a Prince can call a Blood Hunt. It's amazing how quickly a very simple statement can be twisted into something else.
The two are not mutually exclusive, it is possible a prince may only call a blood hunt on another prince for example.
I disagree. A prince will call Blood Hunt on minions under his control for serious transgressions. It's a form of punishment.
A Prince wanting another Prince bumped off would be classed as an assassination. They're very different things and used in very different situations.
Edit: Having read the massively article, he's got it wrong. Go watch the youtube clip and listen to the founder of CCP. Right from the horses mouth, not some journo who obviously missed the point.
It doesn't say who it can be called on, he doesn't mention minions, he just says he can call it on you. The massively article put it in quotes so that usually means someone said those words. I guess we need more info from CCP to clarify the point.
Not really. If you're at all familiar with the IP then the use of the term "Blood Hunt" should be enough to explain it.
I have to admit to ignorance of the IP so you may be right.
I watched the whole video just now and from what I gathered:
The game will have multiple cities all on one shard, each named after IRL cities, but fantasized versions of them.
Every city will have a Prince.
The Prince will be a player who was voted into that position by other players.
The Prince will be able to set in motion the series of events that will lead to a player being perma killed.
From the sound of it, this act will be a very big deal so it probably won't happen often.
In order for the Prince to kill you, you need to be kind of a big deal. Or you need to do something that pisses alot of peope off. So, if you keep your nose clean and respect the Prince, you won't get killed. Think of it like maintaining a friendship, or staying on the good side of the MVP of the game. Just don't piss him off and your character will be fine.
I think perma death will probably be as rare as Jedi's were in SWG, (pre Jedi Trial Grind).
It's actually quite suitable to lore, and could work mechanically, but it has to be *crazy hard* to die in the first place.
Vampires in WoD can experience a 'final death' in many ways, and it's just as easy to die as a werewolf from aggregated wounds made from silver, fire or spectral materials. Otherwise, it really is hard to take one down.
The issue would be in placing those options into the hands of other Players. A permadeath game works fine when it's not as easy as purchasing silver bullets and wasting an AFK player before he has a chance to even see he's permadead. In PvE, it adds a serious sense of "watch what the f**k you are doing". A horror setting where you *are* the horror element can retain scares by occasional sequences of 'futility'. By this, I mean the occasional invincible monster or swat team with silver bullets that you are *meant* to flee from. In these situations, it's the Players fault for thinking he is meant to overcome it, especially if prior knowledge is given that "some things you are not meant to handle alone, or ever". People had a serious hero/God complex in video games, and a good horror setting requires the complete opposite of the spectrum; weakness. Well, at least a strong character that is not impervious, or immortal.
Long story short - works fine in PvE, sucks balls in PvP.
Also, after reading the above post, it makes total sense that a Camarilla advocate could push a 'final death' clause on shithead players. In that case, it's theoretically a great anti-PK and political balancing measure, but won't stop it, as some Players will still act out in the hopes to avoid this punishment indefinitely. Which again, works.
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Also there trully a prince could not call for a blood hunt whenever he/she desired, and normally a prince had a concil of vampiric/hkindred elders that would both comment on his actions, as well as advise them on events in the cites. Even city princes were not the heads of the vampiric culture overall except in their own city largely, add in that with this evading the city of a prince you had annoyed enouph would be pretty good method to stave off blood hunts, since other princes do not take kindly to blood hunts of another cities prince pursueing targets without permission. Both of these facts can be good measures to keep abuse of a perma-death system in check, since if you place semi-regid requirements for a prince to actually call a hunt you reinforce what that hunt means, and the same is true for having politics between city princes to make it possibe to evade/hide from blood hunts in rival cities. I really hope they flesh out the blood hunt system in how they can be called, where they can go, as well as how inter-city blood hunt mechanics such as politics.
I've never understood by what definition this is true. ‘They don't breathe or have a heartbeat’ is pretty weak. Obviously, they're just living without those things.
‘Well, they're not dead, they're undead.’
‘Un-dead... so, they were dead, but now they're alive. So, they're alive.’
‘No, just... living dead.’
‘Is that like “acting natural”?’
‘You know, dead but animated.’
‘What exactly is the difference between “dead but animated” and “alive”?’
‘Well, they don't have a soul.’
‘Meaning what, no mind? They're incapable of thought, just laying in a coma for eternity?’
‘Well, no...’
I think vampire mythology is long past due to dump its medieval definitions of life and death, but that's possibly just me.
Originally posted by Kazuhiro
Not sure that ever happened in eve, I know for the last 4 years at least there has been no such thing as perma-death in eve. Even if you lose a pod twice, and forget to get a new clone, all you lose is some skillpoints, not sure the exact ammount, I think it's your highest sp skill is wiped, but you don't by any means have to start over.
It's definitely possible. The amount of skillpoints you retain when you are podded is determined by your clone grade. If you have an alpha grade clone, you'll only retain 900,000 skillpoints no matter how many you have. For a 40 million skillpoint character, going back to 900 thousand is definitely starting over.
I'd definitely believe that this has never happened, because the likelihood of someone being out of hisec with nothing but an alpha grade clone waiting is infinitesimal, but I'm just saying it is possibe to get into that position with the approprate dose of derp.
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For those that want it, just play your games "ironman" style. when your character dies, delete it.
... glad you thought this through.
It's not that anyone wants to lose their character, or to have other lose their characters, but that some would appreciate having the threat there, because of how cheap and empty a feeling it is for a game to pretend it threatens your character when it obviously doesn't.
It also defeats the point on another level to do this in a game designed to kill PCs frequently. You're thinking about it in a vacuum, divorced from game design. ‘Oh, you wanna have death? Hur dur delete.’ It's such a tired and shortsighted retort.
Game design isn't a bunch of independent modules of closed systems you tack together which never interact. It comes together into a big picture, and the threat of death and all the game design that would take that into account is what the desire to make death somehow possible in a game is about.
The goal is to not lose your character, and preferably for the game to make it difficult to lose your character, whilst having the game enriched by the knowledge that you are not indestructible.
Which is a message that could not be more important to the game of Vampire, and the World of Darkness in general.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
I watched the whole video just now and from what I gathered:
The game will have multiple cities all on one shard, each named after IRL cities, but fantasized versions of them.
Every city will have a Prince.
The Prince will be a player who was voted into that position by other players.
The Prince will be able to set in motion the series of events that will lead to a player being perma killed.
From the sound of it, this act will be a very big deal so it probably won't happen often.
In order for the Prince to kill you, you need to be kind of a big deal. Or you need to do something that pisses alot of peope off. So, if you keep your nose clean and respect the Prince, you won't get killed. Think of it like maintaining a friendship, or staying on the good side of the MVP of the game. Just don't piss him off and your character will be fine.
I think perma death will probably be as rare as Jedi's were in SWG, (pre Jedi Trial Grind).
Yes this is it exactly. You need to be guilty of a major clusterfuck for the Prince to call a blood hunt on you. Follow the rules and observe the Masquerade (the term used for keeping vampires a secret) and you're fine. Run around picking up cars and throwing them around in front of mortals and you're gonna find yourself hunted down and staked out waiting for sunrise.
I watched the whole video just now and from what I gathered:
The game will have multiple cities all on one shard, each named after IRL cities, but fantasized versions of them.
Every city will have a Prince.
The Prince will be a player who was voted into that position by other players.
The Prince will be able to set in motion the series of events that will lead to a player being perma killed.
From the sound of it, this act will be a very big deal so it probably won't happen often.
In order for the Prince to kill you, you need to be kind of a big deal. Or you need to do something that pisses alot of peope off. So, if you keep your nose clean and respect the Prince, you won't get killed. Think of it like maintaining a friendship, or staying on the good side of the MVP of the game. Just don't piss him off and your character will be fine.
I think perma death will probably be as rare as Jedi's were in SWG, (pre Jedi Trial Grind).
Yes this is it exactly. You need to be guilty of a major clusterfuck for the Prince to call a blood hunt on you. Follow the rules and observe the Masquerade (the term used for keeping vampires a secret) and you're fine. Run around picking up cars and throwing them around in front of mortals and you're gonna find yourself hunted down and staked out waiting for sunrise.
So stoked about this game..sandbox with permadeath...hot
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For those that want it, just play your games "ironman" style. when your character dies, delete it.
The fact of weither perma-death is stupid or dumb is rather too much of a personal opinion to be able to state that it is either dumb or great across the board. In a game like the WOD setting where the permenent death f a character or figure in the game actually did play into the setting quite abit, yet also was a way of creating a sense of tension when a player would act against thimgs in the setting thaat were quite powerful or far reaching. Also add in that in the setting you dealt with death being more of downed type of state, and also give that feeling that even immortal beings like vampires had fear about death even placing alot of stigma upon those that would actually cause it to another vampire. I would only say that perma-death systems that have been placed into other games in mmos are relatively weak in how they function, but the idea of using the permenent death as well as removal of a character as a driving factor to create tension for players is not a bad idea at all.
To me any method of causing a kindred/vampire to enter into the final death/perma-die should have alot of stigma placed upon it by the whole of vampire culture, since really for a race of immrtal beings that have largely cheated or evaded death that idea of oblivion or trully dieing would be a tramatic thought. Things like the blood hunts that a prince could call up, the act of oDiablerie (or the act of blood draining a kindred, and then devouring thier soul) is another act that can bring final death, and both of these have uses as well as allure to using them in the setting. WIth one the blood hunt used to both punish those that over step the rules of a prince while also once more re-affirming the prince's power too; Yet with Diablerie has the allure of actually being able to both learn new powers as well as lower one's onw generation standing also. In the culture of vampires Diablerie was seen like cannabilism is for humanity, and so those that partake in it are dealt with in very guarded ways, as well as being also sometimes hunted for their actions too in the setting.
This seems to have become twisted and people are saying the Prince will be affected by Permadeath. That's not what was said. Watch the linked youtube file and it's very clear. The Prince can call a Blood Hunt on someone, probably for a major infraction of the Masquerade (that's my best guess), and that player can then be hunted down and killed. Nobody said that only Princes can be killed.
They clearly said that a Blood Hunt can result in permadeath, and only a Prince can call a Blood Hunt.
It's amazing how quickly a very simple statement can be twisted into something else.
I watched the whole video just now and from what I gathered:
The game will have multiple cities all on one shard, each named after IRL cities, but fantasized versions of them.
Every city will have a Prince.
The Prince will be a player who was voted into that position by other players.
The Prince will be able to set in motion the series of events that will lead to a player being perma killed.
From the sound of it, this act will be a very big deal so it probably won't happen often.
In order for the Prince to kill you, you need to be kind of a big deal. Or you need to do something that pisses alot of peope off. So, if you keep your nose clean and respect the Prince, you won't get killed. Think of it like maintaining a friendship, or staying on the good side of the MVP of the game. Just don't piss him off and your character will be fine.
I think perma death will probably be as rare as Jedi's were in SWG, (pre Jedi Trial Grind).
Yes this is it exactly. You need to be guilty of a major clusterfuck for the Prince to call a blood hunt on you. Follow the rules and observe the Masquerade (the term used for keeping vampires a secret) and you're fine. Run around picking up cars and throwing them around in front of mortals and you're gonna find yourself hunted down and staked out waiting for sunrise.
For my two cents this is pretty much what I got out of it too.
I watched the whole video just now and from what I gathered:
The game will have multiple cities all on one shard, each named after IRL cities, but fantasized versions of them.
Every city will have a Prince.
The Prince will be a player who was voted into that position by other players.
The Prince will be able to set in motion the series of events that will lead to a player being perma killed.
From the sound of it, this act will be a very big deal so it probably won't happen often.
In order for the Prince to kill you, you need to be kind of a big deal. Or you need to do something that pisses alot of peope off. So, if you keep your nose clean and respect the Prince, you won't get killed. Think of it like maintaining a friendship, or staying on the good side of the MVP of the game. Just don't piss him off and your character will be fine.
I think perma death will probably be as rare as Jedi's were in SWG, (pre Jedi Trial Grind).
Sorry, too much power to be giving one player in a game.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Sorry, too much power to be giving one player in a game.
Presumably, the Prince isn't indestructible, either. I can't imagine a Prince that calls erroneous Blood Hunts being in power long. The idea should be for both parties to fear each other, really.
Plus, when the kinslay-happy despot is removed from power, you can imagine the next Prince calling a Blood Hunt of their own, if you want retribution...
Also, if you are or have ever been an EVE player, think back to EVE. A CEO has tremendous power: namely access to everything in the corporation wallets and hangars. A CEO could wreak havoc on the whole of the corporation, like in no other game, really, but it doesn't happen. Because the effort it takes to get into a CEO position in a powerful corporation isn't worth squandering like that.
Likewise, I can't imagine a player that has worked themselves into being the Prince of a city will ever consider it worthwhile to take out their personal grudges with Blood Hunts. That's a tremendous amount of effort to go through just to kill a couple of people and then probably have a coup on your hands.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
Comments
I "honk" that might be best.
Incase you don't know about WW and VtM / WoD, i suggest you read on it a bit.. Final death is what they're propably talking about here, and in VtM final death isn't that easily gained
We had a lesson in that in the 3rd grade (yes I can remember that far back). We all sat in a circle, and the teacher whispered a phrase to the person next to her. It was whispered around until it got back to the teacher. At that point, it was a different phrase entirely. I have never forgotten that lesson.
**** Raving Rabbid wants his WOD now dammit! ****
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
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My quote was from here.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03/24/world-of-darkness-presented-at-eve-fanfest-2012/
The two are not mutually exclusive, it is possible a prince may only call a blood hunt on another prince for example.
I guess you didnt read my post just above yours then. Only the head of a guild who runs one of the cities is ever even at risk so permadeath is only for those who want to risk it.So obtaining the "top spot" is still unattainable without having the risk of losing everything I worked for in the game prior.
No thanks, I'll stay away.
Fair enough, but I imagine you wouldn't get to the top 10 (guesswork) players in a sandbox game if you weren't a bit of a risktaker.Ah if thats how it works, the permadeath bit doesn't seem like it would be as bad. I was thinking at first a Prince could just have players characters destroyed if they didn't pay them "tribute" or tell him he was as awesome as he wanted to hear, basically what would happen in an MMO if someone with power could dictate whos character gets destroyed. Almost had an image or every guild in the city having to pay a "Sacrafice" of the Prince's choosing every month or something.
Guessing the Prince dude has that power, but has some "Protection" removed where they can perma die too? Eh guessing its too early to know for sure, kind of interesting though.
And in the past we've seen how well bugs work in these games, what if the first person finally reaches the prince and he bugs out instantly killing everyone who walks through the door, not a very good thing to place in an mmo imo, if you want permadeath go outside IRL . This kind of immersion really isn't all the well planned usually and ends up being a bigger pain in the long run. They've tried it before just like they tried gear scores before look how well that worked.
Hmm, instead of only the prince being able to permadie, if suddenly "everyone who walked through the door" permadied, don't you honk the developers might just step in at that point, this is not the game for you I fear, stay away in case your fears dilute it.Clearly it's not, and i don't "honk" the devs will step in fast enough. It's already bad enough that at launch they won't be including the five other major player factions that were in their game before their dice game's end of the world scenario completed. It's sad really that they aren't including the very thing that made their dice game great at launch. I'm sorry but waiting for these games like this and watching them put things like this into a game not to be outside the box but to just stunt the character's development is the last straw imo.
I'll be sure to give the high level guys driving firetrucks with heavy lasers attached that their character development is stunted in the permadeath MMO I play.
I "honk" that might be best.
Isn't autocorrect spellcheck a blastI disagree. A prince will call Blood Hunt on minions under his control for serious transgressions. It's a form of punishment.
A Prince wanting another Prince bumped off would be classed as an assassination. They're very different things and used in very different situations.
Edit: Having read the massively article, he's got it wrong. Go watch the youtube clip and listen to the founder of CCP. Right from the horses mouth, not some journo who obviously missed the point.
My quote was from here.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03/24/world-of-darkness-presented-at-eve-fanfest-2012/
The two are not mutually exclusive, it is possible a prince may only call a blood hunt on another prince for example.I disagree. A prince will call Blood Hunt on minions under his control for serious transgressions. It's a form of punishment.
A Prince wanting another Prince bumped off would be classed as an assassination. They're very different things and used in very different situations.
Edit: Having read the massively article, he's got it wrong. Go watch the youtube clip and listen to the founder of CCP. Right from the horses mouth, not some journo who obviously missed the point.
It doesn't say who it can be called on, he doesn't mention minions, he just says he can call it on you. The massively article put it in quotes so that usually means someone said those words. I guess we need more info from CCP to clarify the point.Not really. If you're at all familiar with the IP then the use of the term "Blood Hunt" should be enough to explain it.
Perma Death = no subs, no income, unempolyment line for Devs.
MAGA
Not sure that ever happened in eve, I know for the last 4 years at least there has been no such thing as perma-death in eve. Even if you lose a pod twice, and forget to get a new clone, all you lose is some skillpoints, not sure the exact ammount, I think it's your highest sp skill is wiped, but you don't by any means have to start over.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
My quote was from here.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03/24/world-of-darkness-presented-at-eve-fanfest-2012/
The two are not mutually exclusive, it is possible a prince may only call a blood hunt on another prince for example.I disagree. A prince will call Blood Hunt on minions under his control for serious transgressions. It's a form of punishment.
A Prince wanting another Prince bumped off would be classed as an assassination. They're very different things and used in very different situations.
Edit: Having read the massively article, he's got it wrong. Go watch the youtube clip and listen to the founder of CCP. Right from the horses mouth, not some journo who obviously missed the point.
It doesn't say who it can be called on, he doesn't mention minions, he just says he can call it on you. The massively article put it in quotes so that usually means someone said those words. I guess we need more info from CCP to clarify the point.Not really. If you're at all familiar with the IP then the use of the term "Blood Hunt" should be enough to explain it.
I have to admit to ignorance of the IP so you may be right.I watched the whole video just now and from what I gathered:
The game will have multiple cities all on one shard, each named after IRL cities, but fantasized versions of them.
Every city will have a Prince.
The Prince will be a player who was voted into that position by other players.
The Prince will be able to set in motion the series of events that will lead to a player being perma killed.
From the sound of it, this act will be a very big deal so it probably won't happen often.
In order for the Prince to kill you, you need to be kind of a big deal. Or you need to do something that pisses alot of peope off. So, if you keep your nose clean and respect the Prince, you won't get killed. Think of it like maintaining a friendship, or staying on the good side of the MVP of the game. Just don't piss him off and your character will be fine.
I think perma death will probably be as rare as Jedi's were in SWG, (pre Jedi Trial Grind).
It's actually quite suitable to lore, and could work mechanically, but it has to be *crazy hard* to die in the first place.
Vampires in WoD can experience a 'final death' in many ways, and it's just as easy to die as a werewolf from aggregated wounds made from silver, fire or spectral materials. Otherwise, it really is hard to take one down.
The issue would be in placing those options into the hands of other Players. A permadeath game works fine when it's not as easy as purchasing silver bullets and wasting an AFK player before he has a chance to even see he's permadead. In PvE, it adds a serious sense of "watch what the f**k you are doing". A horror setting where you *are* the horror element can retain scares by occasional sequences of 'futility'. By this, I mean the occasional invincible monster or swat team with silver bullets that you are *meant* to flee from. In these situations, it's the Players fault for thinking he is meant to overcome it, especially if prior knowledge is given that "some things you are not meant to handle alone, or ever". People had a serious hero/God complex in video games, and a good horror setting requires the complete opposite of the spectrum; weakness. Well, at least a strong character that is not impervious, or immortal.
Long story short - works fine in PvE, sucks balls in PvP.
Also, after reading the above post, it makes total sense that a Camarilla advocate could push a 'final death' clause on shithead players. In that case, it's theoretically a great anti-PK and political balancing measure, but won't stop it, as some Players will still act out in the hopes to avoid this punishment indefinitely. Which again, works.
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Also there trully a prince could not call for a blood hunt whenever he/she desired, and normally a prince had a concil of vampiric/hkindred elders that would both comment on his actions, as well as advise them on events in the cites. Even city princes were not the heads of the vampiric culture overall except in their own city largely, add in that with this evading the city of a prince you had annoyed enouph would be pretty good method to stave off blood hunts, since other princes do not take kindly to blood hunts of another cities prince pursueing targets without permission. Both of these facts can be good measures to keep abuse of a perma-death system in check, since if you place semi-regid requirements for a prince to actually call a hunt you reinforce what that hunt means, and the same is true for having politics between city princes to make it possibe to evade/hide from blood hunts in rival cities. I really hope they flesh out the blood hunt system in how they can be called, where they can go, as well as how inter-city blood hunt mechanics such as politics.
I've never understood by what definition this is true. ‘They don't breathe or have a heartbeat’ is pretty weak. Obviously, they're just living without those things.
‘Well, they're not dead, they're undead.’
‘Un-dead... so, they were dead, but now they're alive. So, they're alive.’
‘No, just... living dead.’
‘Is that like “acting natural”?’
‘You know, dead but animated.’
‘What exactly is the difference between “dead but animated” and “alive”?’
‘Well, they don't have a soul.’
‘Meaning what, no mind? They're incapable of thought, just laying in a coma for eternity?’
‘Well, no...’
I think vampire mythology is long past due to dump its medieval definitions of life and death, but that's possibly just me.
It's definitely possible. The amount of skillpoints you retain when you are podded is determined by your clone grade. If you have an alpha grade clone, you'll only retain 900,000 skillpoints no matter how many you have. For a 40 million skillpoint character, going back to 900 thousand is definitely starting over.
I'd definitely believe that this has never happened, because the likelihood of someone being out of hisec with nothing but an alpha grade clone waiting is infinitesimal, but I'm just saying it is possibe to get into that position with the approprate dose of derp.
Perma death is stupid.
For those that want it, just play your games "ironman" style. when your character dies, delete it.
... glad you thought this through.
It's not that anyone wants to lose their character, or to have other lose their characters, but that some would appreciate having the threat there, because of how cheap and empty a feeling it is for a game to pretend it threatens your character when it obviously doesn't.
It also defeats the point on another level to do this in a game designed to kill PCs frequently. You're thinking about it in a vacuum, divorced from game design. ‘Oh, you wanna have death? Hur dur delete.’ It's such a tired and shortsighted retort.
Game design isn't a bunch of independent modules of closed systems you tack together which never interact. It comes together into a big picture, and the threat of death and all the game design that would take that into account is what the desire to make death somehow possible in a game is about.
The goal is to not lose your character, and preferably for the game to make it difficult to lose your character, whilst having the game enriched by the knowledge that you are not indestructible.
Which is a message that could not be more important to the game of Vampire, and the World of Darkness in general.
Yes this is it exactly. You need to be guilty of a major clusterfuck for the Prince to call a blood hunt on you. Follow the rules and observe the Masquerade (the term used for keeping vampires a secret) and you're fine. Run around picking up cars and throwing them around in front of mortals and you're gonna find yourself hunted down and staked out waiting for sunrise.
So stoked about this game..sandbox with permadeath...hot
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The fact of weither perma-death is stupid or dumb is rather too much of a personal opinion to be able to state that it is either dumb or great across the board. In a game like the WOD setting where the permenent death f a character or figure in the game actually did play into the setting quite abit, yet also was a way of creating a sense of tension when a player would act against thimgs in the setting thaat were quite powerful or far reaching. Also add in that in the setting you dealt with death being more of downed type of state, and also give that feeling that even immortal beings like vampires had fear about death even placing alot of stigma upon those that would actually cause it to another vampire. I would only say that perma-death systems that have been placed into other games in mmos are relatively weak in how they function, but the idea of using the permenent death as well as removal of a character as a driving factor to create tension for players is not a bad idea at all.
To me any method of causing a kindred/vampire to enter into the final death/perma-die should have alot of stigma placed upon it by the whole of vampire culture, since really for a race of immrtal beings that have largely cheated or evaded death that idea of oblivion or trully dieing would be a tramatic thought. Things like the blood hunts that a prince could call up, the act of oDiablerie (or the act of blood draining a kindred, and then devouring thier soul) is another act that can bring final death, and both of these have uses as well as allure to using them in the setting. WIth one the blood hunt used to both punish those that over step the rules of a prince while also once more re-affirming the prince's power too; Yet with Diablerie has the allure of actually being able to both learn new powers as well as lower one's onw generation standing also. In the culture of vampires Diablerie was seen like cannabilism is for humanity, and so those that partake in it are dealt with in very guarded ways, as well as being also sometimes hunted for their actions too in the setting.
I dont think so. Really. Another Prince would be in an entirely different city. A bloodhunt called by a Prince is very likely to target underlings.
I wouldnt be surprised in Prince's were NOT in a position for perma death to occur. Otherwise there's going to be constant assasinations and chaos.
For my two cents this is pretty much what I got out of it too.
Sorry, too much power to be giving one player in a game.
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Presumably, the Prince isn't indestructible, either. I can't imagine a Prince that calls erroneous Blood Hunts being in power long. The idea should be for both parties to fear each other, really.
Plus, when the kinslay-happy despot is removed from power, you can imagine the next Prince calling a Blood Hunt of their own, if you want retribution...
Also, if you are or have ever been an EVE player, think back to EVE. A CEO has tremendous power: namely access to everything in the corporation wallets and hangars. A CEO could wreak havoc on the whole of the corporation, like in no other game, really, but it doesn't happen. Because the effort it takes to get into a CEO position in a powerful corporation isn't worth squandering like that.
Likewise, I can't imagine a player that has worked themselves into being the Prince of a city will ever consider it worthwhile to take out their personal grudges with Blood Hunts. That's a tremendous amount of effort to go through just to kill a couple of people and then probably have a coup on your hands.