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Is Hype Is A MMO's Worst Enemy?

2

Comments

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,712Member Uncommon

    Need to sell boxes?  Hype the crap out of your game and get those box sales!

    Free to play game with fair microtransactions (LoL, Tribes)?  Create the most fun game possible!

    Different business models definitely incentivize developers to behave in different ways.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member

    Originally posted by BartDaCat

    Originally posted by Sythion

     

    I think the free advertisement gained from hype is invaluable. It may mean people buy your game and unsub, but those people probably wouldn't have bought the game without the hype anyway.

    I think that developers and publishers need to be more mature about managing expectations, and have a clear view of who their game is not meant for. I think the MMO community would be so shocked by an honest discussion of a game's limitations and who will not enjoy it that it may gain a lot of respect instead of having the opposite affect of negative advertising that people likely fear.

    In the end a game's success or failure is determined by how many people try it, and how good it is. Hype only matters for the first part.

    Very well said.

    The game industry is still in its infancy.  The flood of investors demanding a return on their investments... the race to find the next huge IP (The next "WoW")... the rush of non-gaming types looking to cash in on a successful bandwagon (marketing types, investor types, retailers)... it's a chaotic mess of take-the-money-and-run irresponsibility, ruining well-established franchises and brand names with the stroke of a pen.

    It may take years for the dust to settle, but your comments are definitely in a direction that I'd hope to see the game developing community start to steer themselves toward.

    After working for a few game companies myself, I can honestly say that --- for the most part---  marketing executives rank down there with lawyers on the grand scale of poorest excuses for human beings.  I've met a few exceptions, but they were gamers themsevles.

    true..it doesnt feel like a young industry to us who live and breathe it but when the day is done MMO is not even one generation old.

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by Axehilt

    Need to sell boxes?  Hype the crap out of your game and get those box sales!
    Free to play game with fair microtransactions (LoL, Tribes)?  Create the most fun game possible!
    Different business models definitely incentivize developers to behave in different ways.

     

    Thats true, if you sell convenience in your cash shop, you are incentivised to create inconvenience in your game.
  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Originally posted by BartDaCat

    Originally posted by Sythion

     

    I think the free advertisement gained from hype is invaluable. It may mean people buy your game and unsub, but those people probably wouldn't have bought the game without the hype anyway.

    I think that developers and publishers need to be more mature about managing expectations, and have a clear view of who their game is not meant for. I think the MMO community would be so shocked by an honest discussion of a game's limitations and who will not enjoy it that it may gain a lot of respect instead of having the opposite affect of negative advertising that people likely fear.

    In the end a game's success or failure is determined by how many people try it, and how good it is. Hype only matters for the first part.

    The game industry is still in its infancy. 

    And acts like a spoiled child.

    The MMO industry has digressed over the years, not progressed. We have only ourselves to blame, we're the ones that have funded this greedy corporate beast.

    You get what you pay for and personally, hype tastes like crap.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,712Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Originally posted by Axehilt

    Need to sell boxes?  Hype the crap out of your game and get those box sales!

    Free to play game with fair microtransactions (LoL, Tribes)?  Create the most fun game possible!

    Different business models definitely incentivize developers to behave in different ways.

     Thats true, if you sell convenience in your cash shop, you are incentivised to create inconvenience in your game.

    Yup, which is why games which only sell lateral playstyle unlocks (LOL, Tribes) are much more widely accepted than games which sell XP potions (and are incentivized to create mega-grinds.)

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • EmwynEmwyn MoatshirePosts: 546Member

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Originally posted by Axehilt

    Need to sell boxes?  Hype the crap out of your game and get those box sales!

    Free to play game with fair microtransactions (LoL, Tribes)?  Create the most fun game possible!

    Different business models definitely incentivize developers to behave in different ways.

     

    Thats true, if you sell convenience in your cash shop, you are incentivised to create inconvenience in your game.

    bingo.

    the poster formerly known as melangel :P

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    Hype is a fun part of the entertainment experience when used in moderation.  The key is to not *believe* the hype, to just let it wash over you but retain your skepticism.

    When the hype for something that doesn't exist causes people to bash something that does exist, it's not fun any more.

  • SythionSythion Salem, ORPosts: 422Member

    Originally posted by Axehilt

    Originally posted by RefMinor


    Originally posted by Axehilt

    Need to sell boxes?  Hype the crap out of your game and get those box sales!

    Free to play game with fair microtransactions (LoL, Tribes)?  Create the most fun game possible!

    Different business models definitely incentivize developers to behave in different ways.

     Thats true, if you sell convenience in your cash shop, you are incentivised to create inconvenience in your game.

    Yup, which is why games which only sell lateral playstyle unlocks (LOL, Tribes) are much more widely accepted than games which sell XP potions (and are incentivized to create mega-grinds.)

    LoL sells XP potions.

    image
  • DusntmatterDusntmatter Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 32Member

    Hype may initially sell boxes, but that is a very short sighted approach. 

    With the MMO genre, a game's lifespan is more important than intial box sales. We have yet to see a hyped game stay as strong after a year as it was hyped. 

    Hype also seems to follow a ladder structure, the next step will always be better than the previous. "SWTOR sucks, GW 2 will be the savior of MMO's", and now it's "GW 2 sucks, Secret World will change it all", and after GW 2 it will be "Secret World sucks, Archeage will revolutionize!". 

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Originally posted by Dusntmatter

    Hype may initially sell boxes, but that is a very short sighted approach. 

    With the MMO genre, a game's lifespan is more important than intial box sales. We have yet to see a hyped game stay as strong after a year as it was hyped. 

    What makes you think MMO companies of today design games to last outside of quick box sales and a few months? These jackwagons are moving/firing/transferring staff before launch and most of them already working on their F2P model/scam.

    They know exactly what they're doing and it has nothing to do with planning for longevity.

    They want our cash and they want it NOW. Cash-in on the suckers and move on to the next crappy project. Rinse, repeat. Rinse, repeat.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by Dusntmatter

    Hype may initially sell boxes, but that is a very short sighted approach. 
    With the MMO genre, a game's lifespan is more important than intial box sales. We have yet to see a hyped game stay as strong after a year as it was hyped. 
    Hype also seems to follow a ladder structure, the next step will always be better than the previous. "SWTOR sucks, GW 2 will be the savior of MMO's", and now it's "GW 2 sucks, Secret World will change it all", and after GW 2 it will be "Secret World sucks, Archeage will revolutionize!". 

     

    ArcheAge isn't revolutionary, it's nostalgia in fancy clothing.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Originally posted by Dusntmatter

    Hype may initially sell boxes, but that is a very short sighted approach. 

    With the MMO genre, a game's lifespan is more important than intial box sales. We have yet to see a hyped game stay as strong after a year as it was hyped. 

    Hype also seems to follow a ladder structure, the next step will always be better than the previous. "SWTOR sucks, GW 2 will be the savior of MMO's", and now it's "GW 2 sucks, Secret World will change it all", and after GW 2 it will be "Secret World sucks, Archeage will revolutionize!". 

     

    ArcheAge isn't revolutionary, it's nostalgia in fancy clothing.

    if archeage isnt revolutionary then to be fair no MMO is.

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • SythionSythion Salem, ORPosts: 422Member

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    What makes you think MMO companies of today design games to last outside of quick box sales and a few months? These jackwagons are moving/firing/transferring staff before launch and most of them already working on their F2P model/scam.

    subscriptions = money. 2 months play > revenue than a box sale if purchased from an in-store retailer. You'd have to be an idiot not to care.

    Also, maybe don't be a conspiracy theorist if you want credibility.

    image
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member

    Originally posted by Sythion

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    What makes you think MMO companies of today design games to last outside of quick box sales and a few months? These jackwagons are moving/firing/transferring staff before launch and most of them already working on their F2P model/scam.

    subscriptions = money. 2 months play > revenue than a box sale if purchased from an in-store retailer. You'd have to be an idiot not to care.

    Also, maybe don't be a conspiracy theorist if you want credibility.

    well the problem is the options of possibilities.

    its one of two possibles

    1. either they are smart enough to be hoodwinking us this way

    2. they all went to over priced colleges but are still amazingly stupid.

     

    I am not sure which but most conspircy theories develop under the assumption that the people in charge are not actually morons which is the only other option.

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • GeeTeeEffOhGeeTeeEffOh Newington, CTPosts: 731Member

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    No, gamers who buy the hype is.

     

    This, no game is perfect and companies do make bad decisions about every release, however there is a subset of gamers who do the most damage to a forthcoming release by refusing to admit to anything that is a negative. There are many recent examples of this.

    You don't say..........

    I can't imagine where I can find people who do this.

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common

    Originally posted by Skatty2007

    I don't think hype is an MMO's worst enemy.  I think creating a crappy MMO is an MMO's worst enemy.

    ^^^^^

    THIS

    and hyping said crappy MMO as awesomesauce

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • SythionSythion Salem, ORPosts: 422Member

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    Originally posted by Sythion


    Originally posted by Zekiah

    What makes you think MMO companies of today design games to last outside of quick box sales and a few months? These jackwagons are moving/firing/transferring staff before launch and most of them already working on their F2P model/scam.

    subscriptions = money. 2 months play > revenue than a box sale if purchased from an in-store retailer. You'd have to be an idiot not to care.

    Also, maybe don't be a conspiracy theorist if you want credibility.

    well the problem is the options of possibilities.

    its one of two possibles

    1. either they are smart enough to be hoodwinking us this way

    2. they all went to over priced colleges but are still amazingly stupid.

     

    I am not sure which but most conspircy theories develop under the assumption that the people in charge are not actually morons which is the only other option.

    3. The MMO market is saturated and extremely expensive, causing publishers to avoid risk by making similar products to those that are successful, utlimately leading to loss of money for publisher, and disappointment for the customer.

    image
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member

    Originally posted by Sythion

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    Originally posted by Sythion

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    What makes you think MMO companies of today design games to last outside of quick box sales and a few months? These jackwagons are moving/firing/transferring staff before launch and most of them already working on their F2P model/scam.

    subscriptions = money. 2 months play > revenue than a box sale if purchased from an in-store retailer. You'd have to be an idiot not to care.

    Also, maybe don't be a conspiracy theorist if you want credibility.

    well the problem is the options of possibilities.

    its one of two possibles

    1. either they are smart enough to be hoodwinking us this way

    2. they all went to over priced colleges but are still amazingly stupid.

     

    I am not sure which but most conspircy theories develop under the assumption that the people in charge are not actually morons which is the only other option.

    3. The MMO market is saturated and extremely expensive, causing publishers to avoid risk by making similar products to those that are successful, utlimately leading to loss of money for publisher, and disappointment for the customer.

    aka...stupid.

    gamers are generally progressive people when it comes to innovation. this is a space to not be overly careful about change. I dont know why they do not understand that OR maybe the technology is just really that hard and slow to move in different directions which also might be the case

     

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • GeeTeeEffOhGeeTeeEffOh Newington, CTPosts: 731Member

    Originally posted by grndzro

    My point about the GW2 hype is that we'v seen plenty of info that is exciting. The Devs are not keeping a bunch of game details secret. We see everything that is going to be in game pretty much. 

    So the hype really isn't hype but excitement over being able to play what we have seen.

    Hype generally refers to hope.

    There isn't many surprises surrounding GW2 and it's features. and we are still excited about it.

    So what happens in a game ANY game when "New and exciting" becomes old and boring? How long does that take? GW2 is still new and exciting because it's not old and boring yet.

    In WoW, how many times can you run a heroic dungeon for fun? If WoW dungeons had no reward system other than "GJ" how many times would you run them? Once GW2 content has been expereinced, there is no need to continue playing (for most anyway)

    You have posted your opinion as a fact without really looking at all sides.

  • VidirVidir GothenburgPosts: 944Member Uncommon

    You hype a game and those hypes depends on what you want from this game,then game release and you actually play the final product. Then it comes to if you ar disapointet or you love the game.Hypes are what people are hoping mostly.

  • EmwynEmwyn MoatshirePosts: 546Member

    Originally posted by Dusntmatter

    Hype may initially sell boxes, but that is a very short sighted approach. 

    With the MMO genre, a game's lifespan is more important than intial box sales. We have yet to see a hyped game stay as strong after a year as it was hyped. 

    Hype also seems to follow a ladder structure, the next step will always be better than the previous. "SWTOR sucks, GW 2 will be the savior of MMO's", and now it's "GW 2 sucks, Secret World will change it all", and after GW 2 it will be "Secret World sucks, Archeage will revolutionize!". 

    This has been going on for at least as long as I have been here. I don't think sadly that's ever going to change.

    the poster formerly known as melangel :P

  • VengerVenger York, PAPosts: 1,318Member

    Hype isn't the issue, it is our unrealistic expectations. 

    And this isn't strictly a gaming industry issue.  What people want vs what they are willing/able to pay are completely out of wack.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member

    Originally posted by Melangell

    Originally posted by Dusntmatter

    Hype may initially sell boxes, but that is a very short sighted approach. 

    With the MMO genre, a game's lifespan is more important than intial box sales. We have yet to see a hyped game stay as strong after a year as it was hyped. 

    Hype also seems to follow a ladder structure, the next step will always be better than the previous. "SWTOR sucks, GW 2 will be the savior of MMO's", and now it's "GW 2 sucks, Secret World will change it all", and after GW 2 it will be "Secret World sucks, Archeage will revolutionize!". 

    This has been going on for at least as long as I have been here. I don't think sadly that's ever going to change.

    its fun though to read people posting how a game that isnt even out yet is better than game XYZ. even better when they get into specific features like 'the crafting system of Secret World is much better than Fallen Earth'

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Originally posted by Sythion

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    What makes you think MMO companies of today design games to last outside of quick box sales and a few months? These jackwagons are moving/firing/transferring staff before launch and most of them already working on their F2P model/scam.

    subscriptions = money. 2 months play > revenue than a box sale if purchased from an in-store retailer. You'd have to be an idiot not to care.

    Also, maybe don't be a conspiracy theorist if you want credibility.

    Conspiracy theorist eh? I don't really care if you think I'm "credible" or not.

    If developers really cared about subscriptions, they'd design games that weren't founded on one-time content and all up front bling, ie marketing and hype. They'd also not design games with dead, linear worlds.

    But most of all, if they had plans for the future, they'd FIX WHAT WAS BROKEN OR NEVER IMPLEMENTED! They simply don't do that because they dont' care, they got their box revenue.

    Any subscriptions they hold after three months is gravy, they're already shuffling staff for their next project. They know the odds of hitting another "WoW" number-wise is extremely slim so instead they move from crappy project to crappy project.

    Wonder why SWTOR is designed more like a single player game than a MMO? Simple, all fun and "reward" is designed to be up front to make the tester believe the entire game is going to be great when in actuality it's not. They grab their quick box sales, leave a skeleton crew to keep the suckers stringing along, and move their staff over to another project and/or a F2P model.

    This is no mystery, it's been done time after time over the last several years. It's a system that works, at least it works for them, not us. If you want to believe that the majority of developers these days are designing for longevity well then, I'd say that you are the one interested in conspiracy theories.

    image

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • EmwynEmwyn MoatshirePosts: 546Member

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    its fun though to read people posting how a game that isnt even out yet is better than game XYZ. even better when they get into specific features like 'the crafting system of Secret World is much better than Fallen Earth'

    That's the thing. Eventually the hype becomes predictable. It's like there is some invisible hype sheet where you fill in the blanks for game/some feature but the rest is something you have heard somewhere before at some point. Proof really is in the pudding. I'm a buy a game on release day girl now adays or even after release day. But yea it's interesting to watch the cogs of the wheels go round endlessly!

    the poster formerly known as melangel :P

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