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endgame endgame endgame...

jackwu10jackwu10 JHBPosts: 127Member

i am so sick n tired of everyone focuse on endgame on every mmo..

why cant recent mmo focus no leveling, so there no rush to lvl80 or 90 or 100.. so every content is an endgame content.. :/

why spent so much time program contents that gonna be wasted resources in a first month, cos everyone just gonna rush to the endgame.. why cant there just be no level to anything? dungeons, mobs, gears, skills, all lvl , so every players can always visit all these resources at anytime.. there will always be ppl looking for group for any quests/dungeons at any area.. no this bullshit of newcomer have to solo everything and yelling lfg for xxxx for damn 2 horus and got no response..

i am just so tired of leveling process and have to solo most content alone.. and it breaks my heart to see all those beautiful resources gone wasted.. sitting in the dark corner and only having like.. 2 players visitng them per week?

the only thing i love about guild wars is this lvl-scale feature.. that at least made ppl feel nice for visiting old content without losing its difficulty.. well done!

so.. stop it! developers! stop it! no to lvls! stop it!

 

ok, sorry for compain and poor english.

 

Comments

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by jackwu10

    i am so sick n tired of everyone focuse on endgame on every mmo..

    why cant recent mmo focus no leveling, so there no rush to lvl80 or 90 or 100.. so every content is an endgame content.. :/

    why spent so much time program contents that gonna be wasted resources in a first month, cos everyone just gonna rush to the endgame.. why cant there just be no level to anything? dungeons, mobs, gears, skills, all lvl , so every players can always visit all these resources at anytime.. there will always be ppl looking for group for any quests/dungeons at any area.. no this bullshit of newcomer have to solo everything and yelling lfg for xxxx for damn 2 horus and got no response..

    i am just so tired of leveling process and have to solo most content alone.. and it breaks my heart to see all those beautiful resources gone wasted.. sitting in the dark corner and only having like.. 2 players visitng them per week?

    the only thing i love about guild wars is this lvl-scale feature.. that at least made ppl feel nice for visiting old content without losing its difficulty.. well done!

    so.. stop it! developers! stop it! no to lvls! stop it!

     

    ok, sorry for compain and poor english.

     

    I agree. I too am no friend of endgame whatsoever. With max level a char is basically game over for me.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • EmrendilEmrendil TirionPosts: 199Member

    Interesting. I was thinking about that too. Do we really need leveling? For me the most fun part in MMO's are dungeons, some sort of zone events and raiding. Maybe if they make leveling shorter it would be better, or maybe no leveling at all.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Better to have no true endgame, e.g. eve
    Or be all endgame, e.g. planetside

    Normally for me endgame is when the game changes from the fun bit to the grind bit, best example being wow, which is quite good fun before you hit end game.

    Only game I can think of with leveling game then end game where I did like the transition was daoc, probably because end game there ment you git to do more of the fun stuff and less of the grind.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member

    for me in nearly all games I have played the best part of the game is the start.

    Its very common for me to start over in a game after getting about 3/4 done and its not uncommon for me to never reach 'endgame' in either my single player games or my MMOs. I honestly dont get the appeal of end game other that just being able to run around and kill everything which I can get that fix with cheats on a single player game :)

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • FugglyFuggly Newport News, VAPosts: 141Member

    A good game des not have an endgame, there is just the game. A good game does not "end".

    image

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon

    Actually GW2 will feel like there is no real level difference, on top of that, you are downleveled in lower level zones, and drops are allways level compliant. 

     

    The only reason that there are levels in GW2 is the fact that people still need some feeling of progression. 

     

    Best of all, at level 10 the game should play the same as at level 80

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    for me in nearly all games I have played the best part of the game is the start.
    Its very common for me to start over in a game after getting about 3/4 done and its not uncommon for me to never reach 'endgame' in either my single player games or my MMOs. I honestly dont get the appeal of end game other that just being able to run around and kill everything which I can get that fix with cheats on a single player game :)

    Same here, Sean.

    Leveling helped a lot, I think, for getting people used to the game and their characters. New skills and strategies were introduced along the way. Like a long tutorial :) Look at the bitching on this site about people who can't play their characters "the right way."

    It would be interesting to see how a game like this (no leveling - all endgame) fares.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • xprezxjfkxprezxjfk colorado springs, COPosts: 7Member

    I play games and Mmorpgs to have fun. Whether its leveling or the endgame i could care less, but for me to hold interest in a game one of the two have to be fun. Why not both? and to be honest, i have not played a mmo that i found both extremely enjoyable.

    image
  • mrcalhoumrcalhou St. Bernard, LAPosts: 1,444Member

    I've been thinking for years that levels are an archaic system that needs to be done away with. My friend's wife posted a picture of a bunch of my friends from back home playing TERA, so I asked them what their names and servers were. And they said that unless I can catch up with them then we can't party together.

    It'd be great if MMOs would start coming out with more horizontal progression systems. So instead of getting strictly more powerful, you can branch out into specializing in different playstyles that have positives and negatives, and instead of having to reroll your character, you can just switch specialties.

    You might start the game as a jack of all trades: able to support, do damage, heal, tank, whatever but you're not good at any of it. You can still contribute to a party of players that have been playing from the beginning; you won't be able to do anything exceptionally well, but you're not going to be completly useless either.  Then you can start working on specialties such that you become more tanky while your ability to support and do damage goes down.

    In my mind I'm picturing the pentagon image of stats that people whom have read pokemon strategy guides would remember from back in the day.

    --------
    "Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"

    The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
    Front: UNO Chemistry Club
    Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions

  • ArChWindArChWind Some Place, WIPosts: 619Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by jackwu10

    i am so sick n tired of everyone focuse on endgame on every mmo..

    why cant recent mmo focus no leveling, so there no rush to lvl80 or 90 or 100.. so every content is an endgame content.. :/

    why spent so much time program contents that gonna be wasted resources in a first month, cos everyone just gonna rush to the endgame.. why cant there just be no level to anything? dungeons, mobs, gears, skills, all lvl , so every players can always visit all these resources at anytime.. there will always be ppl looking for group for any quests/dungeons at any area.. no this bullshit of newcomer have to solo everything and yelling lfg for xxxx for damn 2 horus and got no response..

    i am just so tired of leveling process and have to solo most content alone.. and it breaks my heart to see all those beautiful resources gone wasted.. sitting in the dark corner and only having like.. 2 players visitng them per week?

    the only thing i love about guild wars is this lvl-scale feature.. that at least made ppl feel nice for visiting old content without losing its difficulty.. well done!

    so.. stop it! developers! stop it! no to lvls! stop it!

     

    ok, sorry for compain and poor english.

     


    If it had no levels and only alternate achievements then there is no ‘end’

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,748Member Uncommon

    I suppose there are three main reasons players hate "endgame":



    1. Players who hate change.


    2. Players who fixate on leveling and XP, and hate the fact they're no longer gaining it.


    3. Players who dislike the specific mechanics that exist at endgame.


    I don't mind change, and don't mind losing leveling/xp, but definite don't like having my personal contribution be so watered down in Raiding gameplay.  Just feels like the game becomes finding a guild skilled enough so that I'm not being held back (when I'd rather just be social and not continually ditch groups of friends I make just to trade up for a better guild.)

     

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • jackwu10jackwu10 JHBPosts: 127Member

    ye, i agree they should revisit the way of "progression". instead of of lvling up, makybe just give player a chance to discover new skill or something.

    Instead of increase the gap between mob and players (which allows player to kill mob easier), rather increase the way of playing would be more fun, i.e learnt new skill and create a combo move or something. 

    another thing they can do i think, is to always scale the mob lvl in relaltion to player lvl, so even u get lvl at this point, but mobs also inscrease their lvls. so u can never powerlvl ur friend or one shot monsters.

    It is just so much better that if players can always revisit any contents without getting bored cos lose its challenge ability. 

  • GorweGorwe Ald'RuhnPosts: 2,474Member Uncommon
    Archaic system is archaic. It is going to be changed, of that I assure you(the same thing that is happening to Holy Trinities/P2Ps...). I for one hate it because it feels...artificial I guess(there REALLY should be an end to a game-be it that you switch characters to start anew or just quit altogether).
  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,476Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Axehilt

    I suppose there are three main reasons players hate "endgame":



    1. Players who hate change.


    2. Players who fixate on leveling and XP, and hate the fact they're no longer gaining it.


    3. Players who dislike the specific mechanics that exist at endgame.


    I don't mind change, and don't mind losing leveling/xp, but definite don't like having my personal contribution be so watered down in Raiding gameplay.  Just feels like the game becomes finding a guild skilled enough so that I'm not being held back (when I'd rather just be social and not continually ditch groups of friends I make just to trade up for a better guild.)

     

     

    Back in the days of DND,  you would play campaigns.  Sometimes you would have a series of premade modules used for the campaign.  One example, what the Giant series of modules that lead to the Drow underground modules and finally a module about the evil goddess behind it all.  7 modules in total and it could take a group two months to play through it.  Instead of the usual dungeon run, setting up as an instance a "campaign instance" where a group of people (guild perhaps) join in to play it out and have a long time for resetting (1 - 3 months).

    Phasing could be used to advance stories within the campaign and it could even include dynamic event-like options.

  • FaelanFaelan CopenhagenPosts: 826Member Uncommon

    The problem I have with endgame these days is that it feels too much like 'end' and not enough like 'game'. Take WoW for example. You go through all these wonderful and often very different landscapes, doing all sorts of questlines while getting more and more abilites to play around with and what not. Then you hit max level and BAM... end of journey. Now all you do is grind the same couple of instances, dailies or battlegrounds over and over for gear upgrades so you can go back and grind the same stuff more efficiently or for various pointless achievements... or... for more gear so you can... guess what? Yeah. Well, and that pretty mount to add to your collection of 95738 other pretty mounts.

    I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,748Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by waynejr2 

    Back in the days of DND,  you would play campaigns.  Sometimes you would have a series of premade modules used for the campaign.  One example, what the Giant series of modules that lead to the Drow underground modules and finally a module about the evil goddess behind it all.  7 modules in total and it could take a group two months to play through it.  Instead of the usual dungeon run, setting up as an instance a "campaign instance" where a group of people (guild perhaps) join in to play it out and have a long time for resetting (1 - 3 months).

    Phasing could be used to advance stories within the campaign and it could even include dynamic event-like options.

    Not sure how that actually relates to my post, but honestly what you're describing is what MMORPGs already do.

    Certainly in WOW at least:

    1. Wrath of the Lich King releases.

    2. PCs begin an invasion of northrend.

    3. They begin in flimsy footholds, fighting to establish beacheads.

    4. They gradually advance inland, partaking in many stories along the way.

    5. Dungeons along the way recount the players battles against the major minions of the lich king.

    6. They hold a tournament to practice for the coming battles.  The Lich King intervenes, but the players triumph.

    7. They eventually invade the Lich King's lair.

    It's a big long campaign, where most of the stories are somehow connected to the larger story arc of the Lich King's threat.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • jackwu10jackwu10 JHBPosts: 127Member

    Originally posted by Axehilt

    Originally posted by waynejr2 

    Back in the days of DND,  you would play campaigns.  Sometimes you would have a series of premade modules used for the campaign.  One example, what the Giant series of modules that lead to the Drow underground modules and finally a module about the evil goddess behind it all.  7 modules in total and it could take a group two months to play through it.  Instead of the usual dungeon run, setting up as an instance a "campaign instance" where a group of people (guild perhaps) join in to play it out and have a long time for resetting (1 - 3 months).

    Phasing could be used to advance stories within the campaign and it could even include dynamic event-like options.

    Not sure how that actually relates to my post, but honestly what you're describing is what MMORPGs already do.

    Certainly in WOW at least:

    1. Wrath of the Lich King releases.

    2. PCs begin an invasion of northrend.

    3. They begin in flimsy footholds, fighting to establish beacheads.

    4. They gradually advance inland, partaking in many stories along the way.

    5. Dungeons along the way recount the players battles against the major minions of the lich king.

    6. They hold a tournament to practice for the coming battles.  The Lich King intervenes, but the players triumph.

    7. They eventually invade the Lich King's lair.

    It's a big long campaign, where most of the stories are somehow connected to the larger story arc of the Lich King's threat.

     

    it's correct, but then this story only happens 1 once, when u ran over the story once, is it worth to do it over again? and is it worth to do it if a player hits lvl100 when this content was set for lvl 80? 

    the northern story was nice, i enjoyed it, but i doubt there's ppl doing those content anymore, cos they all advance to lvl 85 and too busy killing deathwing. i believe there's very few ppl go back and visit those old raids such as cthun, naxx, outlands etc, or maybe not raid, let's talk about bfd, who actually been there? does even anyoen remember how to run entire sunken temple or upper/lower/ blackrock. if all those ocntents are lvl 1, and all players are lvl 1, and all those gears are lvl 1 with different bounces,  i am sure ppl wont complain about endgame contents.. cos there's just way toooo much contents in wow..

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,748Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by jackwu10 

    it's correct, but then this story only happens 1 once, when u ran over the story once, is it worth to do it over again? and is it worth to do it if a player hits lvl100 when this content was set for lvl 80? 

    the northern story was nice, i enjoyed it, but i doubt there's ppl doing those content anymore, cos they all advance to lvl 85 and too busy killing deathwing. i believe there's very few ppl go back and visit those old raids such as cthun, naxx, outlands etc, or maybe not raid, let's talk about bfd, who actually been there? does even anyoen remember how to run entire sunken temple or upper/lower/ blackrock. if all those ocntents are lvl 1, and all players are lvl 1, and all those gears are lvl 1 with different bounces,  i am sure ppl wont complain about endgame contents.. cos there's just way toooo much contents in wow..

    What's your point?



    • It also wasn't worth it to do the same D&D campaign over again.


    • Cataclysm is the game's current campaign.  It's the story everyone's participating in now.


    Also, I remember running all of those old dungeons, but how does that matter?  The current incarnation of those dungeons play out much better than the bloated older versions did, and players run the new versions all the time.


     


    As for BFD?  BFD gets played all the time.  Way more than it did in classic. It's no longer a remote dungeon where you have to hope enough of your faction is hanging out in that zone wanting to make the sizable trip to get inside the place.  Now you can be anywhere in the world and queue into it.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • XstylesXstyles mariboPosts: 107Member

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Actually GW2 will feel like there is no real level difference, on top of that, you are downleveled in lower level zones, and drops are allways level compliant. 

     

    The only reason that there are levels in GW2 is the fact that people still need some feeling of progression. 

     

    Best of all, at level 10 the game should play the same as at level 80

    I have always thought of this. There's a reason why people stop playing new games, when they are forced into collecting bananas and killing bear and zombies untill they hit max level.

    image
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