Fun. If you've run out of enjoyment in the game, time to stop playing.
Same as every game from the dawn of video gaming, up until the point where it was discovered that the Achiever-mindset could be exploited to gain an audience paying $15/month to do something they don't enjoy.
Fun. If you've run out of enjoyment in the game, time to stop playing.
Same as every game from the dawn of video gaming, up until the point where it was discovered that the Achiever-mindset could be exploited to gain an audience paying $15/month to do something they don't enjoy.
i completely agree. With WoW for example i played it until i got bored...which wasnt long, i wanted a game where i could socialise with friends and play at the same time, not constant competeing for best armor.....just kills it
Fun. If you've run out of enjoyment in the game, time to stop playing.
Same as every game from the dawn of video gaming, up until the point where it was discovered that the Achiever-mindset could be exploited to gain an audience paying $15/month to do something they don't enjoy.
i completely agree. With WoW for example i played it until i got bored...which wasnt long, i wanted a game where i could socialise with friends and play at the same time, not constant competeing for best armor.....just kills it
the real question is why this is so hard for people to regrasp? (i say "regrasp" since this was a basic concept of growing up that games are fun). have they really been in the skinner box that long?
Fun. If you've run out of enjoyment in the game, time to stop playing.
Same as every game from the dawn of video gaming, up until the point where it was discovered that the Achiever-mindset could be exploited to gain an audience paying $15/month to do something they don't enjoy.
i completely agree. With WoW for example i played it until i got bored...which wasnt long, i wanted a game where i could socialise with friends and play at the same time, not constant competeing for best armor.....just kills it
the real question is why this is so hard for people to regrasp? (i say "regrasp" since this was a basic concept of growing up that games are fun). have they really been in the skinner box that long?
basically, yes. And some people have never known another system. Lots of MMORPG fans care for the MMO side and little for the RPG side. That's ok. Whatever floats your boat and makes you happy. daniel!!! I can understand as a gamer. He played WoW until it wasn't fun. I've done the same and with other games. I even stopped applying for and partaking in beta tests for the same reason. I think for me personally, real life is more fun at any rate, I need no carrot beyond that. Gaming is a passtime for me, not a way of life. Though again, I do it because I enjoy it for whatever reason *insert carrot here*.
Fun is such a generic answer and although it may be fine at first I doubt it'll be what keeps players going till the very end. I personally am all about character progression and since I'm a casual gamer it'll probably be months for me to hit cap. How will they keep hardcore players??? There has to be something for both sides of the house to remain successful but then again since it is b2p I guess the main thing is getting players to purchase the game. Once bought it really won't matter.
Fun. If you've run out of enjoyment in the game, time to stop playing.
Same as every game from the dawn of video gaming, up until the point where it was discovered that the Achiever-mindset could be exploited to gain an audience paying $15/month to do something they don't enjoy.
i completely agree. With WoW for example i played it until i got bored...which wasnt long, i wanted a game where i could socialise with friends and play at the same time, not constant competeing for best armor.....just kills it
See, that is actually what kept me in WoW for 3 years. I made really good friends, and we did have a solid, fun community in our guild. I am still friends outside the game, if GW2 can give me that, awesome! If not, it won't last long, regardless of whether the mechanics are good or not.
Some MMORPGs make it seem impossible to group, or meet folks and engage in any kind of meaningful way. I am hopeful GW2 will allow for it. That is actually one of the things i hated about GW1, which I know is different now. You just could not meet people easily, and played a large part of the game alone.
My biggest worry with GW2 is that at the end, everyone says the reason to keep playing after endgame is for the fun of it. I agree. The counter argument to that is, "well, there needs to be a sense of progression," to which I have heard the counter counter "well, why do people keep playing TF2?"
The thing is, a lot of them don't. Most people I know make a month or two on a good FPS then quit. They may come back to it, or play it now and then, but they get bored with it--the same maps, the same weapons, the same everything.
I am hoping GW2 builds a sense of community and purpose that will overcome that casual FPS sort of repetition, or I probably won't last any longer than I did in other themepark games. The only advantage, is that if GW2 is a dud for me, I have only spent $60.
So what is there to do at endgame? Like a few others have said, GW2 doesn't make you grind for months and months to get to the end game content. Starting at lvl 2, you get to experience the content and gameplay that a typical MMO usually reserves for max lvl or end game. GW2 isn't a linear progression game, you can play the way that you want to. Whether it's following your personal story line or just exploring the vast world of Tyria in search of Dynamic Events, it's up to you.
At lvl 80, there will be dungeons to run. Arenanet has always made PvE very challanging/rewarding, and I'm sure we will see the same from GW2. We've seen very little of the content above lvl 30 in the beta's. I can only think of the boss fight with Tequatl the Sunless in the Gamescom demo which I believe was lvl 45 content.
Anyway, here's my list of things that I expect to do at max lvl.
Dungeons
Exploration - hidden content is supposed to be all over the map
Crafting
PvP instances - Hot joinable 5 man
Daily, Weekly, Monthly Objectives
WvW - new server battles every 2 weeks!
Alts - 5 different personal stories, 8 professions
UNKNOWN - reserved for content that we haven't seen
I'm pretty sure that I read in a Dev post that Anet is retaining most of their development staff and are prepared to introduce new content on a monthly basis. If this is true, then we can look forward to new Dynamic Events, Dungeons, and maybe even GvG (Guild vs Guild) Battles and Guild Halls.
Looking to play different game. And from the recent Cash shop news, with every day I become more and more happier, cus all brainless people now wont buy it. Ahh, happy days on the horizont
The best part about GW2, is not having to deal with the mentality of the raider, or the soloer. I am sooo glad these guys have decided not to play GW2, I can barely contain my excitement!
Seriously, after a long day, and your ready to have some fun, you log onto a game and your ordered to level up faster, or sit through hours of raiding, the same dungeon youve been doing all week. Or the soloer who cant be bothered with anything..
You can PvE or WvW as long or as little as you feel like, and still have tons of fun. No chasing some stupid ole carrot...lol
I just love how GW2 fans assume that in every other MMO except for GW2 either players are not having fun or too busy runing gear treadmill. By Blizzards own admission a minority of their subscribers actually took interest in end game raiding.;so i ask what all those millions have been doing in WOW and other themepark games for all these years? i will be the odd one and say hey they were having FUN.
I have played every themepark MMO that exists and never chased gear or did end game raiding neither i ever felt forced or pushed into that direction. Only because there is an option to grind gears doesn't mean i had to do it. People say hey play GW2 for fun, stop playing when you get bored, wait for new content /expansion and dive back in..Well that is how i have been playing MMOS all along.
Then you wouldn't have any problem with GW2 not having a end game raid/gear progression system. The only difference would be that GW2 doesn't have a sub fee while all those other MMOs do.
Im trying to figure out what i am farming in this game, if levels are designed to take 90 minutes each, which will probably mean about 30mnutes for me, and gear is supposed to be all uniform across levels just unique looks what am i farming for power?
Are skills still unlocked through quests and stuff? it seems as though all the weapon skills are given to you as you use the weapon as such i am not quite sure what the guild wars 2 end game is, is it just pvp?
There is no Carrot. The game is designed much like GW1. There is no skinner box unless you're compulsive about Titles, Miature Pets, or weapon Skins. If you require Gear-Treadmills & grind to keep yourself playing a game then you will likely find yourself getting bored & taking long breaks from GW2. That is by design and actually benefits their unique economic model just like in GW1.
There was also "PvP Rank" which in GW1 was used to get you into better and better Pick-up-Groups but that is not a mechanic enforced by the game itself. If you could apply and be accepted into an organized PvP'ing guild then you were usually guaranteed a pre-made team.
In GW2, there will be separate "Leagues" which separates the Ladders. GW1's biggest PvP failing was that everyone had to compete in the same Ladder (but different Formats) and the only way to get the best Rewards and the highest Rank points was to win matches "Consecutively". ....This forced Teams to only field the best "Balance-Way" runners they could find and excluded most casual players from any kind of comp matching. PvP'ers who were excluded had no other option than playing in Random team formats where Gimmicks lead to huge disparities in performance between teams as is common in all "Pub" games, AKA: Gimmick team steamrolls while the rolled teams got almost nothing out of it. <--- GW2 will have options against that so long as the players take it upon themselves to use the tools ANet is providing them instead of just "following the crowd"
It's naive to think people will continue to play this game just because "it's fun." LotRO, WAR, Rift, and SW:TOR were all "fun," but eventually players consumed the content and ran out of things to do. Those players didn't stick around running the same content over and over again. What was fun for awhile soon became boring. I'm not sure GW2's dynamic events will be enough to make every experience completely unique.
Well then people will play it while it's fun and then stop when it's no longer fun.
er "welcome to life".
What is naive is thinking that everything lasts forever if nothing new is introduced.
Since Guild Wars 2 will introduce new content just like any mmo then It shouldn't necessarily be a problem.
I am totally with you on this Sovarth. I play games while they are fun *to me* then I quit when they are no longer fun *to me.*
The problem is, *for me,* that I am having some doubts GW2 will hold my interest all that long. Get to 80, play for fun. Great. Loads of achievements, level an alt, also great. I am a roleplayer, so I will roleplay. Great.
EQ1 I played for 4 years. WOW for 3, EQ2 for 2 years. No other game has come close to a year since. Usually 3 months of dedicated play, followed by 3 months or so of on again off again play, then the inevitable unsub.
The problem I am seeing the potential for in GW2, is the same as other MMOs lately, The actual game play really lacks a clear progression *to me.* I am not an uber raider, but I do enjoy low pressure raiding in the past with friends. That is gone. I enjoy pvp, but not to the extent that WvWvW will be enough to keep me playing, anymore than doing the same 10 maps in BF3 is enough to keep me playing that regularly. I dont like gear grinds, unless I am in the mood for it. I raided, pvped and ground gear when I wanted to in previous MMOs. And other times not. I never got to the high end raids in WoW or EQ1, yet I played them for a very long time.
The more I am learning about GW2, the less it is feeling like a true MMORPG, and the more it is feeling like a FPS with class and unlocks with some multiplayer features, coop features, and some MMO features. I am not trying to cheapen the game, or what it is. I think it will be a lot of fun. I think the framework of what it is like will be a good time, and something new for me. I am looking forward to it, for the most part.
I guess I will have to come to terms with simply not being as excited about the game as I was initially.
I will play this game, and probably like it for a while. But I had been hoping that GW2 might be a game I could call home for a year or two. The more I learn, the less likely I think this will be the case, and any negativity in my posts is simply a reflection of the dissappointment I am starting to let overrun my hype. ;-)
At least, when/if I need to walk from GW2, I won't have to cancel and can come back at any time.
At least, when/if I need to walk from GW2, I won't have to cancel and can come back at any time.
That's the idea. It's not supposed to consume your life to the point where you forget about your job. It's supposed to something you play when the content is fun.
Also, there is no official definition to what an MMORPG is, but despite your efforts to draw attention away from it, that's what you've done. An MMO can be an action RPG, a tactical RPG, a grind mill, an FPS, or whatever else. The definition will come from the majority of the people who choose to play it. And really, saying that a game filled with dynamic events doesn't represent massively multiplayer funsies is... let's be honest, just trolling.
Perhaps Guild Wars 2 is the first true MMORPG in a long time, if we're going to do that. You may forget, but I have a long memory. The first MMOs were MUDs over modem connections, those became graphical muds like the Neverwinter MUD (no, not the new game by Cryptic, there was a MUD long, long before even Neverwinter Nights). Then you had more elaborate graphical MUDs like Meridian59, and top-down isometric games like Ultima Online.
The belaboured point I'm trying to make here is that the MMORPG is a constantly evolving and changing thing, and what you're actually wanting to say is that "Oh these MMORPGs ain't like what they useta be!" which is kind of funny for me because I'm probably much older than you are.
Let MMORPGs become whatever they'll become. Successes and failures wil dictate evolution, not a bunch of people ranting on a message board.
At least, when/if I need to walk from GW2, I won't have to cancel and can come back at any time.
That's the idea. It's not supposed to consume your life to the point where you forget about your job. It's supposed to something you play when the content is fun.
[edit: shorten post]
The belaboured point I'm trying to make here is that the MMORPG is a constantly evolving and changing thing, and what you're actually wanting to say is that "Oh these MMORPGs ain't like what they useta be!" which is kind of funny for me because I'm probably much older than you are.
Let MMORPGs become whatever they'll become. Successes and failures wil dictate evolution, not a bunch of people ranting on a message board.
On the first point, you add an obsessive quality that I never meant, nor implied. I did not mean any of the games I mentioned "consumed my life." I never spend more than a couple of hours a day *at most* on any game, EVER. Which is exactly one of the aspects I am most excited about in reference to GW2, it allows to me to have a sense of achievement without devoting 100s of hours a month to it. I think those are the people that will be out the door in no time at all. Those old games I am referring to, I played casually, but I played them for a very long time without being bored. A HUGE part of that was the wonderful guilds, friends and the sense of community those games had *in my experience."
If GW2 can deliver on building a great community (I am a dedicated roleplayer as well, so tools to that end would help), it could well be the game that keeps me with it for a long time to come. If it relies on WvWvW pvp with a handful of achievements, and does not provide a good setting for community building, then I am sure I will not last.
Also, I am not saying that is even a bad thing. If I don't last, no big deal. If I *do* last, well then I have found *the* game for the next long while. Cool, either way. Worst case scenario I am out $60. I drink more than $60 in coffee a month, and there is no sub fee (I am disregarding the whole cash shop controvery in this discussion).
As to age, not sure how old you are, but I am 41, and totally get what you are saying. And for the most part, I agree actually. I think they should evolve, and see Anet as being a company brave enough to try and do some new ideas, or at the very least, evolve old ideas. Excellent, and I hope they perform well and deliver a wonderful product. If it flops (which I doubt it will) then lessons will be learned then as well.
And on the final point, I am not sure if you were referring to my post specifically, or the toxic environment of these forums in general, but I was in no way meaning my post as a rant, just a brief collection of concerns I felt like expressing.
I may not be quite as excited by this game as you, but I am looking forward to it, never wish failure on any game, because as you say, success or failure, MMOs will evolve accordingly. Successes will only be good for the genre.
Every single thing you described can be done in less then a month
Mass Effect 1, 2, and 3 amount to a mere 20~ hours of gameplay.
Your point?
Because the only point I see here is that you're saying that there's not enough padding/grinding for you. But there will be, it'll just be optional. You can run the hardcore dungeons 5,000 times if you like in order to get a bunch of weapon/armour skins. Meanwhile, the rest of us will be enjoying the game for as long as it's fun.
The thing of it is is that I'd rather have an enjoyable experience for as long as it lasts, rather than have an artificial experience which lasts the same time but includes padding and grinding to make it a gruelling process and therefore much, much less enjoyable overall. Not everyone has to be the same.
There's a great post someone made about how diametrically opposed progression players are to quality. Thus far your sort (the progression seeker) has had plenty of games to choose from. But you're flipping a shit over the one that isn't targeted at you. So you're just now noticing that you're not the target demographic. You are a demographic, but you're not the target demographic. Who is? People like me who just want to enjoy the game.
Like I said, I don't look at Mass Effect 1, 2, & 3 and think to myself: "Gee, I wish they'd put in rpeeated content, padding, gruelling grinding, and millions upon millions more of those scanning missions!"
No, if anything, like most of the Internet I'm happy with them lasting the time they did, in fact, I'd be happier with them if they were more quickly completed by just doing away with those ffffff scanning missions. And none of the critical reception liked those scanning missions either. This is where you're so separated from the rest of the gaming community. To you, sitting down with an ME2 scanning mission and doing that for 10 hours is fun.
Me? I can't possibly imagine how that could be fun.
I find farming for stuff to be fun, i find completing goals adn tasks to be fun, i still havent seen a response on what there will be to do at end game beyond pvp.
1) Collecting stuff for your hall of monuments
2) Collecting various titles like in GW1
3) Collecting various rare weapons or pieces of special armors (rather looks are different or more shiny)
4) Collecting crafting materials so you can create various things
5) Catch a rare pet as ranger?
6) Finish all dungeons
7) Go back to previous areas to experience and participate in events you didn't came across before
8) Finish your characters personal story
9) Create and try out a other class or race character?
10) Participate in PvP as Guild Wars, Arenas, WvsWvsW and gain pvp based titles?
11) Play various available mini games like the tavern brawl in which you can collect the tooth of the guy you beat and sell them to a dentist for gold (maybe there is a title for that there aswell?).
12) Try to reach the higher ranks with your guild?
13) Expand or decorate your house (when the housing part becomes available later) with rare stuff?
Oh dude there are LOTS of things, but a few highlights are
1) An incredible world to explore
2) While exploring over 1,500 dynamic events
3) A game that encourages group play, even if you aren't in a defined group
4) Great clases that will offer lots of play styles.
5, 6, 7,9) WvWvW! I can't wait!
For me the game is about the experience, and Tyria is all about the experience.
Every single thing you described can be done in less then a month
And?
I still play guild wars from time to time and have logged in way more hours there than I have in WoW. But yet there is no gear grind there either. If all you after is the progressive gear grind, then yeah GW2 is not the game for you.
Mass Effect 1, 2, and 3 amount to a mere 20~ hours of gameplay.
Your point?
Because the only point I see here is that you're saying that there's not enough padding/grinding for you. But there will be, it'll just be optional. You can run the hardcore dungeons 5,000 times if you like in order to get a bunch of weapon/armour skins. Meanwhile, the rest of us will be enjoying the game for as long as it's fun.
The thing of it is is that I'd rather have an enjoyable experience for as long as it lasts, rather than have an artificial experience which lasts the same time but includes padding and grinding to make it a gruelling process and therefore much, much less enjoyable overall. Not everyone has to be the same.
There's a great post someone made about how diametrically opposed progression players are to quality. Thus far your sort (the progression seeker) has had plenty of games to choose from. But you're flipping a shit over the one that isn't targeted at you. So you're just now noticing that you're not the target demographic. You are a demographic, but you're not the target demographic. Who is? People like me who just want to enjoy the game.
Like I said, I don't look at Mass Effect 1, 2, & 3 and think to myself: "Gee, I wish they'd put in rpeeated content, padding, gruelling grinding, and millions upon millions more of those scanning missions!"
No, if anything, like most of the Internet I'm happy with them lasting the time they did, in fact, I'd be happier with them if they were more quickly completed by just doing away with those ffffff scanning missions. And none of the critical reception liked those scanning missions either. This is where you're so separated from the rest of the gaming community. To you, sitting down with an ME2 scanning mission and doing that for 10 hours is fun.
Me? I can't possibly imagine how that could be fun.
Why does I want to see more content, a few more options or it's not enough, have to mean I want to endlessly grind repetitive content? I'd expect someone who plays the critical thinker so much to be able to come up with something more than the worst possible inference about another. Why be such a dogmatist?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
jump into PvP when you want with boosted stats so you can compete on even ground witn anyone.
Discover secret locations with treasures.
Assist friends that got left behind without boosting them.
The carrot where people think about is a very very thin line in GW2,
Iam glad Anet made it so as i was getting damn tired of traditional gear grinding.
Iam sure alot of people see things with a diffrent vieuw, but when you played mmo's for more then a decade with the same system then you jump into the air for a totaly diffrent road of playing GW2.
Comments
It will sound crazy, but maybe its about having fun!?
Fun. If you've run out of enjoyment in the game, time to stop playing.
Same as every game from the dawn of video gaming, up until the point where it was discovered that the Achiever-mindset could be exploited to gain an audience paying $15/month to do something they don't enjoy.
i completely agree. With WoW for example i played it until i got bored...which wasnt long, i wanted a game where i could socialise with friends and play at the same time, not constant competeing for best armor.....just kills it
the real question is why this is so hard for people to regrasp? (i say "regrasp" since this was a basic concept of growing up that games are fun). have they really been in the skinner box that long?
basically, yes. And some people have never known another system. Lots of MMORPG fans care for the MMO side and little for the RPG side. That's ok. Whatever floats your boat and makes you happy. daniel!!! I can understand as a gamer. He played WoW until it wasn't fun. I've done the same and with other games. I even stopped applying for and partaking in beta tests for the same reason. I think for me personally, real life is more fun at any rate, I need no carrot beyond that. Gaming is a passtime for me, not a way of life. Though again, I do it because I enjoy it for whatever reason *insert carrot here*.
One of life's lil hand grenades
See, that is actually what kept me in WoW for 3 years. I made really good friends, and we did have a solid, fun community in our guild. I am still friends outside the game, if GW2 can give me that, awesome! If not, it won't last long, regardless of whether the mechanics are good or not.
Some MMORPGs make it seem impossible to group, or meet folks and engage in any kind of meaningful way. I am hopeful GW2 will allow for it. That is actually one of the things i hated about GW1, which I know is different now. You just could not meet people easily, and played a large part of the game alone.
My biggest worry with GW2 is that at the end, everyone says the reason to keep playing after endgame is for the fun of it. I agree. The counter argument to that is, "well, there needs to be a sense of progression," to which I have heard the counter counter "well, why do people keep playing TF2?"
The thing is, a lot of them don't. Most people I know make a month or two on a good FPS then quit. They may come back to it, or play it now and then, but they get bored with it--the same maps, the same weapons, the same everything.
I am hoping GW2 builds a sense of community and purpose that will overcome that casual FPS sort of repetition, or I probably won't last any longer than I did in other themepark games. The only advantage, is that if GW2 is a dud for me, I have only spent $60.
So what is there to do at endgame? Like a few others have said, GW2 doesn't make you grind for months and months to get to the end game content. Starting at lvl 2, you get to experience the content and gameplay that a typical MMO usually reserves for max lvl or end game. GW2 isn't a linear progression game, you can play the way that you want to. Whether it's following your personal story line or just exploring the vast world of Tyria in search of Dynamic Events, it's up to you.
At lvl 80, there will be dungeons to run. Arenanet has always made PvE very challanging/rewarding, and I'm sure we will see the same from GW2. We've seen very little of the content above lvl 30 in the beta's. I can only think of the boss fight with Tequatl the Sunless in the Gamescom demo which I believe was lvl 45 content.
Anyway, here's my list of things that I expect to do at max lvl.
Dungeons
Exploration - hidden content is supposed to be all over the map
Crafting
PvP instances - Hot joinable 5 man
Daily, Weekly, Monthly Objectives
WvW - new server battles every 2 weeks!
Alts - 5 different personal stories, 8 professions
UNKNOWN - reserved for content that we haven't seen
I'm pretty sure that I read in a Dev post that Anet is retaining most of their development staff and are prepared to introduce new content on a monthly basis. If this is true, then we can look forward to new Dynamic Events, Dungeons, and maybe even GvG (Guild vs Guild) Battles and Guild Halls.
Guild Wars 2 Gamers - A Social Networking Fansite
The carrot is faith... lord ncsoft works in mysterious ways.
Looking to play different game. And from the recent Cash shop news, with every day I become more and more happier, cus all brainless people now wont buy it. Ahh, happy days on the horizont
hehe no offence i'm teasing you
The best part about GW2, is not having to deal with the mentality of the raider, or the soloer. I am sooo glad these guys have decided not to play GW2, I can barely contain my excitement!
Seriously, after a long day, and your ready to have some fun, you log onto a game and your ordered to level up faster, or sit through hours of raiding, the same dungeon youve been doing all week. Or the soloer who cant be bothered with anything..
You can PvE or WvW as long or as little as you feel like, and still have tons of fun. No chasing some stupid ole carrot...lol
Good times await my friends!!
Then you wouldn't have any problem with GW2 not having a end game raid/gear progression system. The only difference would be that GW2 doesn't have a sub fee while all those other MMOs do.
There is no Carrot. The game is designed much like GW1. There is no skinner box unless you're compulsive about Titles, Miature Pets, or weapon Skins. If you require Gear-Treadmills & grind to keep yourself playing a game then you will likely find yourself getting bored & taking long breaks from GW2. That is by design and actually benefits their unique economic model just like in GW1.
There was also "PvP Rank" which in GW1 was used to get you into better and better Pick-up-Groups but that is not a mechanic enforced by the game itself. If you could apply and be accepted into an organized PvP'ing guild then you were usually guaranteed a pre-made team.
In GW2, there will be separate "Leagues" which separates the Ladders. GW1's biggest PvP failing was that everyone had to compete in the same Ladder (but different Formats) and the only way to get the best Rewards and the highest Rank points was to win matches "Consecutively". ....This forced Teams to only field the best "Balance-Way" runners they could find and excluded most casual players from any kind of comp matching. PvP'ers who were excluded had no other option than playing in Random team formats where Gimmicks lead to huge disparities in performance between teams as is common in all "Pub" games, AKA: Gimmick team steamrolls while the rolled teams got almost nothing out of it. <--- GW2 will have options against that so long as the players take it upon themselves to use the tools ANet is providing them instead of just "following the crowd"
I am totally with you on this Sovarth. I play games while they are fun *to me* then I quit when they are no longer fun *to me.*
The problem is, *for me,* that I am having some doubts GW2 will hold my interest all that long. Get to 80, play for fun. Great. Loads of achievements, level an alt, also great. I am a roleplayer, so I will roleplay. Great.
EQ1 I played for 4 years. WOW for 3, EQ2 for 2 years. No other game has come close to a year since. Usually 3 months of dedicated play, followed by 3 months or so of on again off again play, then the inevitable unsub.
The problem I am seeing the potential for in GW2, is the same as other MMOs lately, The actual game play really lacks a clear progression *to me.* I am not an uber raider, but I do enjoy low pressure raiding in the past with friends. That is gone. I enjoy pvp, but not to the extent that WvWvW will be enough to keep me playing, anymore than doing the same 10 maps in BF3 is enough to keep me playing that regularly. I dont like gear grinds, unless I am in the mood for it. I raided, pvped and ground gear when I wanted to in previous MMOs. And other times not. I never got to the high end raids in WoW or EQ1, yet I played them for a very long time.
The more I am learning about GW2, the less it is feeling like a true MMORPG, and the more it is feeling like a FPS with class and unlocks with some multiplayer features, coop features, and some MMO features. I am not trying to cheapen the game, or what it is. I think it will be a lot of fun. I think the framework of what it is like will be a good time, and something new for me. I am looking forward to it, for the most part.
I guess I will have to come to terms with simply not being as excited about the game as I was initially.
I will play this game, and probably like it for a while. But I had been hoping that GW2 might be a game I could call home for a year or two. The more I learn, the less likely I think this will be the case, and any negativity in my posts is simply a reflection of the dissappointment I am starting to let overrun my hype. ;-)
At least, when/if I need to walk from GW2, I won't have to cancel and can come back at any time.
That's the idea. It's not supposed to consume your life to the point where you forget about your job. It's supposed to something you play when the content is fun.
Also, there is no official definition to what an MMORPG is, but despite your efforts to draw attention away from it, that's what you've done. An MMO can be an action RPG, a tactical RPG, a grind mill, an FPS, or whatever else. The definition will come from the majority of the people who choose to play it. And really, saying that a game filled with dynamic events doesn't represent massively multiplayer funsies is... let's be honest, just trolling.
Perhaps Guild Wars 2 is the first true MMORPG in a long time, if we're going to do that. You may forget, but I have a long memory. The first MMOs were MUDs over modem connections, those became graphical muds like the Neverwinter MUD (no, not the new game by Cryptic, there was a MUD long, long before even Neverwinter Nights). Then you had more elaborate graphical MUDs like Meridian59, and top-down isometric games like Ultima Online.
The belaboured point I'm trying to make here is that the MMORPG is a constantly evolving and changing thing, and what you're actually wanting to say is that "Oh these MMORPGs ain't like what they useta be!" which is kind of funny for me because I'm probably much older than you are.
Let MMORPGs become whatever they'll become. Successes and failures wil dictate evolution, not a bunch of people ranting on a message board.
On the first point, you add an obsessive quality that I never meant, nor implied. I did not mean any of the games I mentioned "consumed my life." I never spend more than a couple of hours a day *at most* on any game, EVER. Which is exactly one of the aspects I am most excited about in reference to GW2, it allows to me to have a sense of achievement without devoting 100s of hours a month to it. I think those are the people that will be out the door in no time at all. Those old games I am referring to, I played casually, but I played them for a very long time without being bored. A HUGE part of that was the wonderful guilds, friends and the sense of community those games had *in my experience."
If GW2 can deliver on building a great community (I am a dedicated roleplayer as well, so tools to that end would help), it could well be the game that keeps me with it for a long time to come. If it relies on WvWvW pvp with a handful of achievements, and does not provide a good setting for community building, then I am sure I will not last.
Also, I am not saying that is even a bad thing. If I don't last, no big deal. If I *do* last, well then I have found *the* game for the next long while. Cool, either way. Worst case scenario I am out $60. I drink more than $60 in coffee a month, and there is no sub fee (I am disregarding the whole cash shop controvery in this discussion).
As to age, not sure how old you are, but I am 41, and totally get what you are saying. And for the most part, I agree actually. I think they should evolve, and see Anet as being a company brave enough to try and do some new ideas, or at the very least, evolve old ideas. Excellent, and I hope they perform well and deliver a wonderful product. If it flops (which I doubt it will) then lessons will be learned then as well.
And on the final point, I am not sure if you were referring to my post specifically, or the toxic environment of these forums in general, but I was in no way meaning my post as a rant, just a brief collection of concerns I felt like expressing.
I may not be quite as excited by this game as you, but I am looking forward to it, never wish failure on any game, because as you say, success or failure, MMOs will evolve accordingly. Successes will only be good for the genre.
Oh dude there are LOTS of things, but a few highlights are
1) An incredible world to explore
2) While exploring over 1,500 dynamic events
3) A game that encourages group play, even if you aren't in a defined group
4) Great clases that will offer lots of play styles.
5, 6, 7,9) WvWvW! I can't wait!
For me the game is about the experience, and Tyria is all about the experience.
Every single thing you described can be done in less then a month
What the OP wants is months of grinding a raid to get a single weapon or finish a set of armor. He thinks progression = items.
Mass Effect 1, 2, and 3 amount to a mere 20~ hours of gameplay.
Your point?
Because the only point I see here is that you're saying that there's not enough padding/grinding for you. But there will be, it'll just be optional. You can run the hardcore dungeons 5,000 times if you like in order to get a bunch of weapon/armour skins. Meanwhile, the rest of us will be enjoying the game for as long as it's fun.
The thing of it is is that I'd rather have an enjoyable experience for as long as it lasts, rather than have an artificial experience which lasts the same time but includes padding and grinding to make it a gruelling process and therefore much, much less enjoyable overall. Not everyone has to be the same.
There's a great post someone made about how diametrically opposed progression players are to quality. Thus far your sort (the progression seeker) has had plenty of games to choose from. But you're flipping a shit over the one that isn't targeted at you. So you're just now noticing that you're not the target demographic. You are a demographic, but you're not the target demographic. Who is? People like me who just want to enjoy the game.
Like I said, I don't look at Mass Effect 1, 2, & 3 and think to myself: "Gee, I wish they'd put in rpeeated content, padding, gruelling grinding, and millions upon millions more of those scanning missions!"
No, if anything, like most of the Internet I'm happy with them lasting the time they did, in fact, I'd be happier with them if they were more quickly completed by just doing away with those ffffff scanning missions. And none of the critical reception liked those scanning missions either. This is where you're so separated from the rest of the gaming community. To you, sitting down with an ME2 scanning mission and doing that for 10 hours is fun.
Me? I can't possibly imagine how that could be fun.
1) Collecting stuff for your hall of monuments
2) Collecting various titles like in GW1
3) Collecting various rare weapons or pieces of special armors (rather looks are different or more shiny)
4) Collecting crafting materials so you can create various things
5) Catch a rare pet as ranger?
6) Finish all dungeons
7) Go back to previous areas to experience and participate in events you didn't came across before
8) Finish your characters personal story
9) Create and try out a other class or race character?
10) Participate in PvP as Guild Wars, Arenas, WvsWvsW and gain pvp based titles?
11) Play various available mini games like the tavern brawl in which you can collect the tooth of the guy you beat and sell them to a dentist for gold (maybe there is a title for that there aswell?).
12) Try to reach the higher ranks with your guild?
13) Expand or decorate your house (when the housing part becomes available later) with rare stuff?
14 the most important thing: have fun!
And?
I still play guild wars from time to time and have logged in way more hours there than I have in WoW. But yet there is no gear grind there either. If all you after is the progressive gear grind, then yeah GW2 is not the game for you.
lol, so that's why so many companies managed to deliver it? </sarcasm>
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Why does I want to see more content, a few more options or it's not enough, have to mean I want to endlessly grind repetitive content? I'd expect someone who plays the critical thinker so much to be able to come up with something more than the worst possible inference about another. Why be such a dogmatist?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The fun while playing it, thats the carrot.
1600/1700 dynamic events that looks realy nice.
jump into PvP when you want with boosted stats so you can compete on even ground witn anyone.
Discover secret locations with treasures.
Assist friends that got left behind without boosting them.
The carrot where people think about is a very very thin line in GW2,
Iam glad Anet made it so as i was getting damn tired of traditional gear grinding.
Iam sure alot of people see things with a diffrent vieuw, but when you played mmo's for more then a decade with the same system then you jump into the air for a totaly diffrent road of playing GW2.