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Monthly Sub vs.Cash Shop

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  • palulalulapalulalula vukovarPosts: 655Member

    I  am always for sub. I don't know why i get all the time that feeling when game is f2p it is kind a cheap trick. Well in fact  gw2 is not f2p because you must buy this game :) It is not like champions online for example where you have free download. But nothing in this world is for free

  • IkonoclastiaIkonoclastia SydneyPosts: 185Member Uncommon

    Theres only one definition of P2W. Its like buying a card in a poker game so you can beat the other guy.  The irony is when everyone begins buying that card then you are back to square one, parity and have to figure out another way to metagame your way ahead (boxing, PL'ing, botting, hacking)... ad nuseum.

    Not even the developers win, since eventually the only people playing their game are bots and cheats.

     

  • Dream_ChaserDream_Chaser BGPosts: 1,043Member

    Originally posted by palulalula

    I  am always for sub. I don't know why i get all the time that feeling when game is f2p it is kind a cheap trick. Well in fact  gw2 is not f2p because you must buy this game :) It is not like champions online for example where you have free download. But nothing in this world is for free

    Except 98~% of the content (they even give the comic book series away for free), many free costume options, free character slots, free archetypes, and free players are every bit as capable as paying players due to all the stats and behind-the-scenes numbers being the same.

    Essentially, it's possible to play from 1-40 in Champions, completing 98~% of the content (barring a few adventure packs). And you can do this without paying a single penny. In fact, a number of the long time players have said that Cryptic's approach is entirely far too generous, becuase it makes some people wonder what they're paying their subscriptions for.

    I'm sorry, what were you saying again?

    To me, this sounds like an inflated sense of self-entitlement. You really should check out that link in my sig.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,931Member Uncommon

    I hate cash shops but they are a necessity in F2P games.

     

    Cash shops in a B2P game really turns me off though.  I already planned on playing D3 until I got bored and buying GW2 later.  Iy's just easier now because I don't want to support the GW2 store model.  They want me to pay $60 for a game where others can level faster if they pay more?  Bad plan.

  • austriacusaustriacus limaPosts: 624Member

    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia

    Was looking forward to GW2.  I will not pay for a game which has any sort of shop in it, or even a sneaky cash to currency system like Plex in EvE.  

     

    So thats 2 x box sales ($99 dollars per box in Aust) + my monthly subs.  I think they should at least have a no cash shop server or two cus I think there are quite a few people like me out there.

     

    It was stated from the very beggining there was gona be a cash shop. You need to research games before you start following them. I hope you dont invest in anything ever in your life, it will probably make you end on the streets.

  • IkonoclastiaIkonoclastia SydneyPosts: 185Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by austriacus

    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia

    Was looking forward to GW2.  I will not pay for a game which has any sort of shop in it, or even a sneaky cash to currency system like Plex in EvE.  

     

    So thats 2 x box sales ($99 dollars per box in Aust) + my monthly subs.  I think they should at least have a no cash shop server or two cus I think there are quite a few people like me out there.

     

    It was stated from the very beggining there was gona be a cash shop. You need to research games before you start following them. I hope you dont invest in anything ever in your life, it will probably make you end on the streets.

    Sorry I don't need to do anything other then what I have done to avoid buying pay to win garbage.  I'm not going to "research a game" or anything like that, thats what game mags and sites like this get paid to do.   if theres something fishy about a game that pops up, like a cash shop, then I won't waste my money on it.  

  • Nadya3Nadya3 MadridPosts: 348Member

    i prefer the Month Subs over Cash shops.

     

    with cash shops, you actually end up paying more.  and usually this games become pay to win.       not to mention that you also need to buy every single expansions.

     

    month Subs  you already pay for everything, expansions included.

  • TheTrueKingTheTrueKing San Antonio, TXPosts: 427Member

    Let me clear up the misconseption bout the cash shop in GW2: The cash shop will not be required in any way shape or form for you to take full advantage of the game!!!  If this changes Anet will lose their entire customer base which they didn't do for the first game so why would they do it now.

    The argument "once they see their profits could be higher if they add p2w items they might change their mind" is asinine and grasping at straws to find possible future fault.  They didn't lower their standards before with the same market standards they used in the past.

     

    Anet does not have the history to go along with the tin hat wearing paranoia vs their proven cash shop track record.

     

    We've been beaten over the head with useless monthly sub games that have not changed for years yet still provide the same boring play style with no changes for a incredibly long time.  Have companies done the cash shop wrong?  YES but the same business model that Anet used in the past wont change for what they are promising their customers.

     

    I'm sick of paying a monthly sub for a game that does not care about the gaming experience they are providing.

    I find that the box price + OPTIONAL cash shop vanity items lets me choose what I want to spend my money on in the game I play. (Frankly the boost items don't give any advantage in this game excluding saving you personal specifically person time)  claiming anything else is ignorant.

     

    It has been proven that what they are offering in the cash shop is not P2W and being paranoid over what they might change in the future to allow yourself to fall back on a broken monthly sub system is just un realistic.

     

    Monthly subs are useless and un needed so take it or leave it Give me something else to spend my monthly sub on and thank the gaming gods its vanity items to make my character look like the master of kickassery he is.

     

    Anet has a history of doing business so compare it to its own track record and stop comparing it to other incompatent companies.

  • EvilestTwinEvilestTwin New York, NYPosts: 286Member

    Team Fortress 2 sells hats in their cash shop.

    Do the hats look awesome?  Yes.

    Are some of the hats only available via cash shop?  Yes.

    Can you obtain those hats via trading without paying real cash?  Yes.

    Do those hats give any in game advantage?  NO.

     

  • bobfishbobfish SouthamptonPosts: 1,688Member

    All I have to say on the matter is, Turbine started out selling fluff in the LOTRO store, a year later a few stats items turned up, 18 months later and equipment started to turn up... everyone trusted them not to do it, they even promised they wouldn't do it, but they did do it.

     

    Personally though, I couldn't give a damn what GW2 sell in their store, provided it isn't mandatory to play all the content in the game.

  • EvilestTwinEvilestTwin New York, NYPosts: 286Member

    Originally posted by bobfish

    All I have to say on the matter is, Turbine started out selling fluff in the LOTRO store, a year later a few stats items turned up, 18 months later and equipment started to turn up... everyone trusted them not to do it, they even promised they wouldn't do it, but they did do it.

     

    Personally though, I couldn't give a damn what GW2 sell in their store, provided it isn't mandatory to play all the content in the game.

    It'd kill PVP if they offered any type of item that's more powerful than the standard level 80 gear, cash shop or not.   GW2 is trying to make the 5v5 PvP into an e-sport.   There is no e-sport game that sells power via a cash shop.   Cosmetics?  Yes.  Power?  No.

  • fiontarfiontar Dana, MAPosts: 3,719Member

    There is absolutely nothing that will appear in the cash shop that will be required to play the game fully, advance quickly or be competative with other players. The very limited boosts may have some appeal for people with disposable income, but with very limited play time. The boosts are minor and become completely uneconomical for anyone beyond a few hours worth a week.

    These things would be minor in any game, but they are even more insignificant due to the GW2 game design. The leveling curve goes flat from level 20 to 80, with every level expected to take about 1 1/2 hours. The entire game is "end game", due to automatic scaling of character downwards for lower level content, (while earnig loot and XP appropriate for their true level). Skill points to unlock utility, healing and elite skills aren't just tied to leveling, you can also earn skill points from skill point challenges in the world, so even if someone gets some minor boost to progression rate, it's still not a definitive advantage over someone who spends nothing in the cash shop, but takes the time to actually explore and lay the game.

    The power curve from leveling and from gear is more shallow than in other games. There are no end game raids or anything else that you need to get to the level cap for in order to get some uber power boost. Gear can be obtained in a number of ways that are not effected by cash shop boosts, etc...

    On top of it all, if you do play a lot and have accumulated some excess gold in your journeys, you will have the opportunity to trade gold for Gems, (the Cash Shop Currency), which may allow you to buy account services like character slots with out ever having to reach for your credit card.

    Just to clarify, since this comes up in these discussions, buying gems with $$$ does not inject new gold into the economy. There is no in game vendor where you can trade gems for gold. To sell them for gold, you need to do so on the marketplace, for gold that already exists with in the economy, so no added inflation.

    You can still play the game fully, for just the box price. No mind numbing grind that can only be made tolerable via cash shop boosts, no power enhancing items, no items needed to achieve maximum character progression or the best possible gear. A lot of to do about nothing. This stuff is all truly optional and revenue will come from people with deep pockets, those who want to reward the game with some additional support and the occassional account service or impulse cosmetic item purchase for those who otherwise don't spend a dime in the cash shop.

    Fair, well balanced and much better than a subscription fee that just grants you another month's access to a game you already purchased.

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
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  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,203Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia

    Originally posted by austriacus


    Originally posted by Ikonoclastia

    Was looking forward to GW2.  I will not pay for a game which has any sort of shop in it, or even a sneaky cash to currency system like Plex in EvE.  

     

    So thats 2 x box sales ($99 dollars per box in Aust) + my monthly subs.  I think they should at least have a no cash shop server or two cus I think there are quite a few people like me out there.

     

    It was stated from the very beggining there was gona be a cash shop. You need to research games before you start following them. I hope you dont invest in anything ever in your life, it will probably make you end on the streets.

    Sorry I don't need to do anything other then what I have done to avoid buying pay to win garbage.  I'm not going to "research a game" or anything like that, thats what game mags and sites like this get paid to do.   if theres something fishy about a game that pops up, like a cash shop, then I won't waste my money on it.  

    Well if you had done any research you would know there is no 'pay to win garbage' in GW2. It is a core part of their philosophy. If that should ever change I will move on also. Oh btw there are no monthly subs either. Good luck finding a a game without doing any research, I sugest walking into a store with your eyes shut and picking up a box from the first shelf you bump into. Seriously, how can you make any sort of informed choice about anything knowing f*ck all about it?

  • XasapisXasapis VolosPosts: 5,561Member Uncommon

    Right. If it wasn't GW2, I'm sure none of you would defend the cash shop so fevershly. Plenty of games share the same monetary model, the only difference is that they don't demand a cash front price.

    What's even more funny is that some people believed that GW2 could be funded with the upfront money only.

    I wonder how many people consider this game B2P now. Because, if anything else, it is absolutely clear now that it isn't.

  • fiontarfiontar Dana, MAPosts: 3,719Member

    Originally posted by Xasapis

    Right. If it wasn't GW2, I'm sure none of you would defend the cash shop so fevershly. Plenty of games share the same monetary model, the only difference is that they don't demand a cash front price.

    What's even more funny is that some people believed that GW2 could be funded with the upfront money only.

    I wonder how many people consider this game B2P now. Because, if anything else, it is absolutely clear now that it isn't.

    The game has a cash shop. We knew this from the start. This is not a F2P cash shop model. It's far more benign than even the most relaxed F2P cash shop model.

    There is nothing in the Cash Shop you need to play the full game. There is nothing in the cash shop that makes the game more enjoyable, makes your character more powerful, or provides any other real advantage over someone who buys the box and absolutely nothing else.

    Some players will buy these optional items and services, for a variety of reasons and that will help support further game development, on top of box revenues and expansion revenue. If you want to play with out ever spending a dime in the cash shop, you can do so without issue and no one can buy anything that negatively impacts your ability to enjoy the game.

    Subscription MMOs give you nothing for that monthly fee that you don't get from just buying the GW2 box. Nothing.

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
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  • EvilestTwinEvilestTwin New York, NYPosts: 286Member

    Originally posted by Xasapis

    Right. If it wasn't GW2, I'm sure none of you would defend the cash shop so fevershly. Plenty of games share the same monetary model, the only difference is that they don't demand a cash front price.

    What's even more funny is that some people believed that GW2 could be funded with the upfront money only.

    I wonder how many people consider this game B2P now. Because, if anything else, it is absolutely clear now that it isn't.

    Except in those games only a small population of the players would be able to obtain 'end-game' gear.   The end game content would rely on stat requirements that would be nearly impossible to fulfil unless you grind 24/7 or just spend cash to get it.   Those items would give a ton of advantage in PvP.  

    In GW2, that can't happen, both by the design of the game, A-net's philosophy, and the direction they want to take the game.   If they did introduce a paradigm shift ot the system that would allow for that kind of power to be bought, then they'd  lose a large number of their user base when it comes around to the expansions.   

  • HonnerHonner SydneyPosts: 504Member

    Originally posted by fiontar

    Originally posted by Xasapis

    Right. If it wasn't GW2, I'm sure none of you would defend the cash shop so fevershly. Plenty of games share the same monetary model, the only difference is that they don't demand a cash front price.

    What's even more funny is that some people believed that GW2 could be funded with the upfront money only.

    I wonder how many people consider this game B2P now. Because, if anything else, it is absolutely clear now that it isn't.

    The game has a cash shop. We knew this from the start. This is not a F2P cash shop model. It's far more benign than even the most relaxed F2P cash shop model.

    There is nothing in the Cash Shop you need to play the full game. There is nothing in the cash shop that makes the game more enjoyable, makes your character more powerful, or provides any other real advantage over someone who buys the box and absolutely nothing else.

    Some players will buy these optional items and services, for a variety of reasons and that will help support further game development, on top of box revenues and expansion revenue. If you want to play with out ever spending a dime in the cash shop, you can do so without issue and no one can buy anything that negatively impacts your ability to enjoy the game.

    Subscription MMOs give you nothing for that monthly fee that you don't get from just buying the GW2 box. Nothing.

    100% agree on this part ^^

    Subscription MMOs doesn't need a cash shop because they already take 15$ a month for each player... For example the BIG example of WoW... Buy the box + monthy fee + cash shop + 20$ for tournaments. (I missed something?)

  • XasapisXasapis VolosPosts: 5,561Member Uncommon

    Can I get any cosmetic item I choose without relying on the cash shop? Because that's what is the most important bit in my mmorpgs these days. Certainly not raid gear and the like.

    Btw, I'm fine with the way the cash shop is set. If I read it correctly they use something similar to LOTRO's system. So, if I find the game entertaining I'll pay some extra money to get the pieces of cosmetic gear that I like. But lets not call the monetary system what it is not, just because we like the game.

  • HonnerHonner SydneyPosts: 504Member

    Originally posted by Xasapis

    Can I get any cosmetic item I choose without relying on the cash shop? Because that's what is the most important bit in my mmorpgs these days. Certainly not raid gear and the like.

    Btw, I'm fine with the way the cash shop is set. If I read it correctly they use something similar to LOTRO's system. So, if I find the game entertaining I'll pay some extra money to get the pieces of cosmetic gear that I like. But lets not call the monetary system what it is not, just because we like the game.

    They said that is not needed to spend real money on the cash shop (of course will be much faster) is posible to exchange game gold for gems and then buy on the cash shop.

  • keinohrkeinohr BraunschweigPosts: 60Member

    Originally posted by Nadya3

    i prefer the Month Subs over Cash shops.

     

    with cash shops, you actually end up paying more.  and usually this games become pay to win.       not to mention that you also need to buy every single expansions.

     

    month Subs  you already pay for everything, expansions included.

    As i said before this is a naive aproach. It's not a monthly fee OR a cash shop. Many games use a micro transaction system(WoW, Tera, Eve, TSW, etc.). E.G. WoW. You have to pay for a Race Change, Server Transfer, Name Change(?), etc.. In addition to that you are able to buy a "Pet Shop Pet" with ingame gold(Guardian Cub).

    Even Eve Online or Tera Online use a similar system.

    The important question is if you're losing some gaming experience. There is no exclusive game content in the cash shop. And the economic ingame advantage exists in every game.

    BTW.

    Even the so called Buy to Play Games use a micro transaction. ME3, BF3, etc. You have to buy everything to get the full gaming experience.

     

    Overall this is not legitimate concern. (No one is complaing about the guarding cub in WoW now.)

  • HonnerHonner SydneyPosts: 504Member

    Originally posted by keinohr

    Originally posted by Nadya3

    i prefer the Month Subs over Cash shops.

     

    with cash shops, you actually end up paying more.  and usually this games become pay to win.    not to mention that you also need to buy every single expansions.

    In what mmorpg other than EVE you don't have to pay for the expansion?

     

     

    month Subs  you already pay for everything, expansions included.

    This is not true.

     

  • PigozzPigozz CPosts: 842Member

    Originally posted by Xasapis

    Right. If it wasn't GW2, I'm sure none of you would defend the cash shop so fevershly. Plenty of games share the same monetary model, the only difference is that they don't demand a cash front price.

    What's even more funny is that some people believed that GW2 could be funded with the upfront money only.

    I wonder how many people consider this game B2P now. Because, if anything else, it is absolutely clear now that it isn't.

    I still do..and for me the game still IS B2P...I will buy it and I will experience everything in the game for the box price, because I can (apart from other F2P games like Lotro, AoC, etc)

    This isnt sandbox game, so the money other people will spent in CS wont affect my game experience anyhow (apart from Eve online and their PLEX system)

    The cash shop is even better than League of Legends - there, under common circumstances, there is no way for you to get champion skins...In GW2, I will be able to get these kind of thngs. And guess what, I dont see anyone bitching about RIOT methods (okay every new champ costs 6300 IP, but who would expect any different is really naive)

     

    The thing is, if this WASN'T GW2, there wont be any bitching about this cash shop. If this was some minor MMO, people would actually be kindly surprised how insignificant the CS is...but since this is the Big one...Haters (sorry guys, but thats all I see, anyone with a common sense of logic understands the cash shop is no big deal at all) will try bash it down as much as they can...

    MMOs played chronologically:
    Runescape,Lineage II, WoW,Tabula Rasa, AoC,Eve Online,Guild Wars, Rift(beta only),SWTOR(beta only),Star Trek Online
    Most fun: Tabula Rasa
    image

  • LeucentLeucent Penticton, BCPosts: 2,371Member

    If the items in the CS are like what GW2 has, then I prefer CS.

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    Originally posted by Pigozz

     

    /snip

    The thing is, if this WASN'T GW2, there wont be any bitching about this cash shop. If this was some minor MMO, people would actually be kindly surprised how insignificant the CS is...but since this is the Big one...Haters (sorry guys, but thats all I see, anyone with a common sense of logic understands the cash shop is no big deal at all) will try bash it down as much as they can...

    If you apply 'logic', the GW2 CS is technically more into the P2W category than before.

    Whether you personally think that puts it into the 'P2W' game or not is another issue but techically it is.

    I am a bit surprised by the reaction on both sides but I can see the logic behind some of the 'haters'; esp if they feel ANet wasn't entirely truthful.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • LeucentLeucent Penticton, BCPosts: 2,371Member

    I sure hope planetside2 has the same cs idea. there is nothing, and I mean nothing that effects my gameplay at all, if people spend money in the cs.

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