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For me it's about the quality of the game and how much impact the cash shop will have on my play style. I doubt maxing out my storage space for each character is going to run to the same cost as paying a sub over a period of some months, if the game has as much longevity as GW did for me then no way will that come anywhere near what it would cost if I'm paying a sub. As long as I can choose to ignore things like random loot bags and xp enhancements etc I'll just get on with enjoying what the game has to offer, which people seem to be losing sight of, it's not some crummy F2P title with poor game mechanics designed to keep you spending and poor graphics with lore that's not developed, nothing we've seen so far suggests anything but a quality game. Look at what you're getting, THINK about what YOU may need to spend and weigh it up from there. If the Forbes article is true, no NDA for post April 10th, we'll be getting plenty of feedback from people who have taken a leap of faith and pre-purchased, I'll be one of them.
Originally posted by Mythios11 I'd much rather pay a monthly sub than have a company use a cash shop to supplement their income. Cash shop's are a slipperly slope. Maybe they don't have a lot of "pay to win" items in it at launch but rest assured, if ArenaNet finds that it's not as profitable as they anticipated they will most certainly add more enticing items down the road.
U should add a poll and I guarantee you it will be pretty one-sided in favour of cash shop.
I for one, won't like to be forced into paying a sub just because this business model traps me from enjoying other games.
Another reason is - and a big one at that - there will not be ANY pay to win items xare p2w for you? That is confirmed by the official blog. And no, xp boosts and karma boosts are NOT p2w.
Sure ArenaNet may add more enticing items down the road including really nice looking costumes or maybe mission packs. But do any of that lead to p2w? No.
There is also a thing called player expectation. Players who have played GW1 expect the cash shop of GW2 to be very similar in terms of selling similar items that are in no way, shape or form p2w. If ArenaNet does not meet that expectation, just imagine how angry the fans would be! ArenaNet devs are smart and understand that.
You also go on saying that "It's going to take a lot more money to turn a profit on GW2 compared to GW1". That is completely true. However, GW2 will have a HUUUUGGEE following of players who will purchase the game. Far more so than GW1.
Reasons include things like; the game being for the most part, open-world; GW1 did great in terms of sales and since GW2 is a direct sequal, so you can expect large number of GW1 fans to come over to GW2; players want a fresh, new experience that feels very different to anything that they have played in their previous mmorpgs; GW2 caters for almost all types of players whether they are into competitive pvp, large scaled pvp, single player rpgs or mmorpgs (really?).
So you can see where "a lot more money" will come in from. Oh, and that's not taking into account the cash shop which will no doubt generate tons more money.
Looking forward to EQL and EQN.
Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by RizelStar Oh but the game isn't dependant on the cash shop, cash shop is dependin on the game lol. Hell you can get what's in the cash shop in this game, I'm sure some games with cash shops don't do this. Plus have you seen the cash shop vanity items yet? lol
Your first sentence there is a bit off. The entire service is going to be dependant on the cash shop. That much is obvious from these latest revelations. If the cash shop was an after-thought as you seem to be suggesting, most of what we saw wouldn't be there. No it's not P2W IMO, at least thus far, but it is no different than the cash-shops we see in non-P2W F2P's.
This cash shop is obviously set up to supplement the game, in order to fund it and they will most likely adjust the game according to sales in that shop. if they're not getting enough sales don't be surprised when they make changes that ensure more revenue from CS sales.
Dont forget that they cant do anything drastic or something that contradicts what they are doing now, since they also have to think of the people that wont spend a dime but will buy their expansions. If they do something to upset them they lose a really big chunck of peoples money
I don't like also the ambigue nature that gold (in game currency) takes. It is part virtual part real, and the game is now something in between the game i wanted to play and a poker table. Would you immagine having played all those old board games (monopoly, risk, etc...) with this ambigue currency instead or with with real money? I see gw2 with the bussiness model they explained exactly like playing Risk! with real money. Odd at best.
Originally posted by Xasapis Originally posted by illorion Hmm another one of these.... Again, if it's like the cash shop in GW1, then there is nothing to worry about
Why would it be? It's neither the same model of a game as GW1 was, nor is the same time as people in the west are more accepting nowadays to a cash shop idea than they used to be at the time of the first game.
GW1 and GW2 are two very different games, in two very different time periods. We certainly need to keep that in mind.
Originally posted by Pangentor Must suck to have so little self-control that paying $150 or more per year is better than optional services and goods.
Depends on how optional they would be. When your guild pressure you for the best items for your dungeon runs or for your pvp runs, how well are you going to resist?
Well i dunno about others but no one can force me to do anything i dont wish to. I always have options to ignore them ( in this case ur guildie), leave the guild, or stop playing the game if i find it so annoying.
People have to realise that its only a game if it turns out not what you have expected we can all just leave and look for something else
Originally posted by Madimorga Originally posted by Pangentor Must suck to have so little self-control that paying $150 or more per year is better than optional services and goods.
It sucks when someone with no self control spends $150 a month and then has an advantage over someone who doesn't in terms of leveling speed, PvE, and especially PvP.
Now someone is going to say, Guild Wars 2 is different, no cash shop item, no leveling speed, no gear, no gold will give someone else and advantage. To which I say, we'll see, but I'm not buying it. I and several others have already pointed out ways that people with money to burn could have an advantage over other players.
Even with limited info on the cs items i do not think it will affect structured PvP.
I personally played more than 20+ mmo and many have p2w cs (those f2p korean mmo) and it has never bothered me at all. In the end its the gameplay itself that is boring that make me quit and not about people having p2w gears going around irritating you.
I play mostly F2P MMOs. Eden Eternal, Grand Fantasia, City of Heroes, Ether Saga, and soon Lime Odyssey. Some say the cash shops in some of those games are P2W but Ive been playing for a few months and dont feel that. Do I use the cash shop? Yes, but mostly for convience, spending 5 dollars to get a bigger bag as I get a lot of loot. Outside of that, nada.
Can someone buy better weapons, mounts, etc? In some yes. Do I care? No. Does it affect my gameplay? No. I dont see the point of 'buying' a max character and 1) not understanding how to use it and 2) having the fun of getting there myself... I mean thats the reason why I play. I want the challenge of a virtual world and see how far I can get.
The only one I smirk at is City of Heroes. While designing my character I couldnt continue and play without buy a 'next button' from the cash shop. Granted it was like $2.50, but still it was misleading and 'forced' me to buy something to continue. Did I do it? Of course, I wanted to play the game and it was cheaper than a sub.
In the end the cs really doesnt affect the game, and I think that is even more true in GW2. Of course I dont know for sure, but from what I read it looks like a nice optional compliment.
Lets just play
Originally posted by Madimorga Originally posted by illorion Originally posted by Madimorga Originally posted by Pangentor Must suck to have so little self-control that paying $150 or more per year is better than optional services and goods.
The only way i can see an advantage would be level speed "maybe". Gear stats cap so there will be no advantages in PvE. Leveling speed isn't that big a deal. Took forever to level a priest versus a pally in wow but people still played priest and didn't complain that they were broken because they leveled slower
If gold can buy you anything in this game worth having, then leveling speed is an advantage as long as level 80 mobs drop better vendor trash than level 1 mobs.
I already said it, I'll say it again. My plan is to never spend anything beyond the initial box cost and whatever items will max me out quickest, which means I need gold and lots of it, and fast, so I can buy diamonds while inflation is low (assuming diamonds don't have price controls). Getting to 80 faster than the vast majority of players will be an advantage to me. Again, assuming there is anything in the AH worth having. And if there isn't? Well, why bother with gold or crafting at all?
So from what i understand from then above is:
1. higher/faster lvling than myself = advantage
If for the argument sake A spend 10hr to reach lvl X+10 while B can only spend 2hr to reach lvl X+2 all without any boost items. Do you consider A having and advantage over B since he attain higher lvl faster because he can spend more time playing than B?
So if its unfair to B why cant he balance things out by using cash to make up the difference in time played?
I'd almost rather have a sub than a cash shop. Being able to buy in-game items with RL money really cheapens the gaming experience for me.
Originally posted by weiii Originally posted by Madimorga Originally posted by illorion Originally posted by Madimorga Originally posted by Pangentor Must suck to have so little self-control that paying $150 or more per year is better than optional services and goods.
Because player A will simply buy the boosts as well. In which case he still has an advantage. The amount of the advantage is questionable. The fact that it IS an advantage (buying power which they clearly said they would not do) is the issue imo.
Originally posted by shadowman465 They didn't do it to the first Guild Wars why would they do it to the second?
If the leak is true, which it may not be then they already are selling power. The amount of power is questionable but its still buying power regardless.
Also, the stuff they are selling in GW1 isnt even close to what they are trying to sell in GW2. Which again, is all based on the leaks. Who knows if that will be final untill launch or untill they say "yup thats what we are selling".
Oh and to awnser the question. I would much rather pay a sub. At least for now. The way some companies are going it wont suprise me to see sub based games with full fledged cash shops soon. Blizzard already got away with a cosmetic cash shop.
Originally posted by xenogias Oh and to awnser the question. I would much rather pay a sub. At least for now. The way some companies are going it wont suprise me to see sub based games with full fledged cash shops soon. Blizzard already got away with a cosmetic cash shop.
The Secret World
Box Fee + Sub Fee + Cash Shop
Originally posted by gladosrev2 Originally posted by Mythios11 I'd much rather pay a monthly sub than have a company use a cash shop to supplement their income. Cash shop's are a slipperly slope. Maybe they don't have a lot of "pay to win" items in it at launch but rest assured, if ArenaNet finds that it's not as profitable as they anticipated they will most certainly add more enticing items down the road.
Monthly sub is for greedy, talentless companies, who love to cash in by doing nothing at all. They force you to buy expansions on top of it, which should be free considering they are released every 1-2 years, which means you already paid in extense of 200+$ inbetween for what? Nothing at all. Please don't mention server costs, because that's just silly. There are dozens of games that let you play free forever, online, they somehow manage to cover the costs right? Moreover, when you pay a sub you are forced to swallow whatever the companies shove down your throat. With a microtransaction model you can choose what you pay for. This is how it should be. Of course there are pitfalls but ANet seems to handle it perfectly so far.
The fault in your logic is that you assume ANet is like the others, but they have clearly proven they are not. They are doing what they can to stop the decade long ripoff that the MMO's have become. You should support them, instead of inventing false predictions. Besides you can always go run the threadmill in WoW, Blizzard loves to rip people off as they have recently stated, the "sub model works well" for them Go hamsters! :P
Myself I like to have a choice, and I choose high quality, therefore I stay with ANet.
Yup you got it. Sub fees go into pockets. Period. And you have to pay it if you want to play the game you already bought.
On the flip side with B2P no one is forcing you to buy anything. Nice thing about GW2 is if there's something I really want, I can still probably earn it in game and have it anyways. If people want to blow wads of cash getting themselves all sorts of perks, Im fine with that. I'm not their mommy. They worked for that cash, and I say let them spend it how they want.
If it gives them some sort of advantage over me, that just means I have to play harder, and be more skilled. Which skill also results in itself from being disadvantaged. I have to play harder, fight harder, and victory is made all the sweeter.
Looks like mostly fluff items in the shop though, but even if there weren't, I could care less. All I care about is not paying a monthly fee and throwing my money away. Almost feels like extortion. " Pay up or you dont get to play next month! Do I have to break your kneecaps? HUH? ". If I spend money I want something to show for it. Im not paying cash for the right to play a game I paid full price for. Thats ludicrous.
I would rather play the game 100% Free no cash shop, and constant content for free forever.
see how that work? Even sub base games have cash shops but ppl are somehow ok with a sub+cash shop game with no content for up to 1year, but bitch at a b2p game with no compensatory content. With the only issue being that they hate the idea of someone potentially doing something faster than them. Unsurprisinly, the ppl whining the most are the ones who play 40 hours a week, which means they will achieve more purely because they have no life.
Originally posted by Gruug Originally posted by Mythios11 I'd much rather pay a monthly sub than have a company use a cash shop to supplement their income. Cash shop's are a slipperly slope. Maybe they don't have a lot of "pay to win" items in it at launch but rest assured, if ArenaNet finds that it's not as profitable as they anticipated they will most certainly add more enticing items down the road.
I 100% agree with this. The whole "free-to-play" term is such a misconception. Instead, they should say free-to-START (F2S). In fact, I am not longer going to refer to ANY of those game as any but F2S.
From what you describe then you cant play the game unless u keep purchasing from the cs?? I personally dont think so.
But even then its not f2s since there is still the box cost also....
Best advise to all that those that complain and tries to get gaming companies to confornt to what you want is..... buy the gaming company over. Once you own it you can have free control to remove what you dont like about the game.
Originally posted by weiii
First if their cash shop looks like the typical F2P what difference does it make that there is a box fee? Doesn't that make it some-what worse? Especially with A-nets wording over the last few months?
Second, no, the best advice to those who don't want to see that be the case, is to speak your mind as much as possible now, and hope you are heard.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by weiii
Yea but we always knew the game was going to have a cash shop. Always. I still dont understand the ruckus over this suddenly.
And its better to me than having to buy the game, pay a sub fee, AND have a cash shop. So whatever.
Originally posted by Distopia Second, no, the best advice to those who don't want to see that be the case, is to speak your mind as much as possible now, and hope you are heard.
amen to that
Sub, hands down.
We already know that you can trade money for gold via the player market so this means you can essentially buy anything in the game with real money except for karma rewards. I know that there is an argument that this won't matter because there is no gear grind, and everything of a given level is equal...but I just don't buy that...not yet at least. Also, let's just say I have seen some information pertaining to the CS that intrepid internet denizens could find if they wanted, and I was not amused with what I saw.
All this said, I am still really looking forward to GW2. I still think it will be a good game, but I would much rather it have a sub so everyone was on a relatively even playing field.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Originally posted by dudeduder45 I'd almost rather have a sub than a cash shop. Being able to buy in-game items with RL money really cheapens the gaming experience for me.
Yeah man, I completely agree.
So many people are arguing that the cash shop is all good because you can't really gain a big advantage in it. But that's never been my main problem with it.
I, like you, don't like excessive microtransactions because it cheapens the experience. I didn't mind the CS when we all thought it was just cosmetic crap because it was so limited. But now that you can trade gems for gold, it's completely integrated into the games economy, and the game just becomes less immersive because you know that you could always pay $5 to get that sword you want.
Originally posted by Xasapis
I agree about the "how optional" part. I'm in favor of Cash Shops but it should be the type of Cash Shop that doesn't break gameplay among players. No "must have" should exist in the shop.
Originally posted by Creslin321 Originally posted by dudeduder45 I'd almost rather have a sub than a cash shop. Being able to buy in-game items with RL money really cheapens the gaming experience for me.
Based on the leaks which I will not go into, yeah, right now I'm not happy at all about what I saw. I don't even really care about any possible advantage, I just forsee this shop being in my face every step of the way. That's what cheapens the experience for me.
I honestly dont understand why the CS would "cheapen the experience", whatever that means.
I'm just glad everyone can at least see that the CS offers no advantage over other players. I doubt I will even notice most of the cosmetic fluff being sold, but I support those people who want them.
Originally posted by Corehaven Yea but we always knew the game was going to have a cash shop. Always. I still dont understand the ruckus over this suddenly. And its better to me than having to buy the game, pay a sub fee, AND have a cash shop. So whatever.
I think it's all about wording, perceptions, let down and squashed hopes. For months now many have been putting forth the idea that this shop was going to be purely cosmetic, Purely cosmetic ...
It doesn't look as though it will be, and people are upset about that. You also have to consider A-nets wording early on, about sub-fees, their need, and companies ripping people off, as that's the idea they put forth. Yet here we are with what looks like the typical non-p2w cash-shop. Something seems off about that to me. And I'm sure it looks that way to others.
Yes I agree with the last part 100%.