Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

So when did Real Money Trading become okay?

2456711

Comments

  • VengerVenger York, PAPosts: 1,318Member

    I don't have self-control issues so these companies making money off something that would happen anyway doesn't effect me at all.

    I'd rather see the companies that create these games get the money over chinese farmers and hackers.

  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Greencastle, INPosts: 2,594Member Uncommon

    When china's goverment officals relized they could use prisoners playing mmo's 12hr shifts to put alittle side money in there pockets.

    image

  • gladosrev2gladosrev2 BialystokPosts: 203Member

    Originally posted by fundayz

    Guild Wars 2 [...] provided in-game advantages for out-of-game resources.

    Please elaborate how wearing a fancy dress cosmetic equals having an advantage?

    Or how an exp boost item in a game which has linear levelling curve, with endgame starting at level 1, is an advantage?

    GW2 is so different from the other titles you listed, that you make it a disservice by listing it alongside them.

    One could even argue that damage boosting items would not be an advantage in GW2 due to the dodging mechanics. DPS simply does not matter in GW2.

    You seem to be stuck in the old WoW mechanics mode, but you need to realize GW2 is breaking with it. It shouldn't really matter.

    My Guild Wars 2 First Beta Weekend "reviewette" : http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4944570/thread/349125#4944570

  • fundayzfundayz Chatown, ONPosts: 463Member

    Originally posted by rojo6934

    Originally posted by fundayz



    In GW2 you can now buy Gems using cash and sell them in-game for Gold. This gold can be used to buy gear, crafting materials, consumables, guild influence. In addition, you can buy loot bags and gameplay bonuses (xp, karma, rare item chance, etc) directly from the cash shop.

    your paragraph sounds like blaming GW2 for pay to win. None of the things you mentioned break the game (did they say they will sell statted gear in cash shop? i think not...) only merchants sell gears, cash shop will sell fashion change for your gear.

    And, you cannot buy cash shop with gold. You need gems for that (either trade with gold or buy with real money). So you got that wrong too.

    You can buy in-game Gold through the Cash Shop by buying Gems with cash then selling them in-game for Gold.

    You WILL be able to by anything from "epic" grade gear to consumables to crafting materials using nothing but real world cash.

    In addition, the Cash Shop has "Random Item Bags" that can provide you with high quality gear.

    You can buy anything from the Cash Shop using Gold. The fact that you are exchanging the Gold into Gems first doesn't change that.

     

     


    Originally posted by gladosrev2

    Please elaborate how wearing a fancy dress cosmetic equals having an advantage?

    Or how an exp boost item in a game which has linear levelling curve, with endgame starting at level 1, is an advantage?

    GW2 is so different from the other titles you listed, that you make it a disservice by listing it alongside them.

    One could even argue that damage boosting items would not be an advantage in GW2 due to the dodging mechanics. DPS simply does not matter in GW2.

    You seem to be stuck in the old WoW mechanics mode, but you need to realize GW2 is breaking with it. It shouldn't really matter.

    [mod edit]

     


    Originally posted by aionix

    Wait wait you already know what they are selling?  You're breaching your NDA for the beta?  You're playing the game right now?  Damn I'm jeaous........*all speculation that goes against the words that Anet has already said*

    /facepalm

    If you are going to make a witty retort at least try to know what you are talking about...

    http://www.arena.net/blog/mike-obrien-on-microtransactions-in-guild-wars-2

    [mod edit]

  • aionixaionix Fremont, OHPosts: 292Member

    Originally posted by Venger

    I don't have self-control issues so these companies making money off something that would happen anyway doesn't effect me at all.

    Lol well said....same here.  I can control myself from spending widly on shinies.  This whole argument is just a personal dillehmia people need to get over. 

  • XerithXerith Richardson, TXPosts: 970Member

    Originally posted by fundayz

    Originally posted by Xerith

    What game play affecting items are in EvE, WoW, and GW2? The only one I have a problem with is Diablo 3 simply because of how gear based of a game it will be. I would hardly consider cosmetic items in EvE game play changing in any way, unless you need a monocle to fly your ship. 

    You actually don't know do you?

    In EVE you buy PLEX which can be sold for large amounts of ISK. This ISK can be used to buy ships, materials, blueprints, upgrades, etc.

    In WoW you can now buy tradeable Guardian Pup mini-pets. These can be sold on the AH for Gold, which can then be used for gear, consumables, gems, mats, etc

    In Diablo 3 you can literally buy items and characters directly with cash.

    In GW2 you can now buy Gems using cash and sell them in-game for Gold. This gold can be used to buy gear, crafting materials, consumables, guild influence. In addition, you can buy loot bags and gameplay bonuses (xp, karma, rare item chance, etc) directly from the cash shop.

     

     


    Originally posted by jtcgs

    OP, so when has it been OK to allow gold selling companies to take money that could/should be going to the game maker?

    See, that is the question people like you refuse to think about.

    It is NOT possible to stop gold selling unless the game maker themselves makes it availible.

    It is 100% better for the game maker to get that money so they can reinvest it back into the game.

    It is 100% better to have a game with no gold seller spam knowing that anyone that wants to spend their money is not only getting it from the game maker, but the money from it is going to help keep the game going.

    This argument is laughable.

    Yes, RMT will always happen. The issue is how widespread do the developers allow it to become.

    There is a huge difference between knowing that a few people will find ways to cheat and the developers openly endorsing it.

    Those can affect the market, they don't change game play in WoW, EvE, or GW2 simply because currency is so easily achieved, at least in the first two. I left out D3 on purpose as you will actually be able to sell gear for real money / purchase gear for real money which is game changing. 

    Even if I have a billion isk in EvE, it wont make me a better player if I dont have the skills trained up for the ships. I had over 50k gold when I quit WoW, it didn't make me a better player because raid gear > crafted gear, so nothing I can go off and buy is going to put me above end game raid/pvp gear. Itll be the same for GW2. 

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member

    Originally posted by fundayz 

    Originally posted by jtcgs

    OP, so when has it been OK to allow gold selling companies to take money that could/should be going to the game maker?

    See, that is the question people like you refuse to think about.

    It is NOT possible to stop gold selling unless the game maker themselves makes it availible.

    It is 100% better for the game maker to get that money so they can reinvest it back into the game.

    It is 100% better to have a game with no gold seller spam knowing that anyone that wants to spend their money is not only getting it from the game maker, but the money from it is going to help keep the game going.

    This argument is laughable.

    Yes, RMT will always happen. The issue is how widespread do the developers allow it to become.

    There is a huge difference between knowing that a few people will find ways to cheat and the developers openly endorsing it.

    This argument is laughable.

    Yes, RMT will always happen but since I personally do not know how often it happens and that the industry makes billions a year doing it,  im going to cry if a gaming company wants to stop it, make more money themselves and use it for the game in question.

    Oh BTW, I am also then going to ignore the fact that if the company is doing it, its no longer cheating and thus there is nothing for the company to endorse...other than funding their game.

    Face it, your head is stuck in the old tired way of MMORPGs. GW2 is going to be a game where you spending 60 hours a week farming mobs for in game money is going to get you what you want...either gear or bragging rights. The old way is just that...old and outdated.

    If you cannot except that, there are other games for you that will allow you to play in the past.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • ForumPvPForumPvP KingstownPosts: 871Member

    I think its more like vacuum cleaner cleaning  MMO´s.

    Carebears gathered into one place and shop is open,there they can buy whatever they want and for every cheat they want then company  gives them  real money penalty tickets for excange ,and its ok as long as they stay inside their  vacuum bags.

     

     

     

     

     

    Let's internet

  • drakes821drakes821 Magnoll, FLPosts: 522Member Uncommon

    It all boils down to the fact tha companies want to make money with their games.

    There has always been a HUGE market for buying gold/items in MMO's and companies were getting none of the profit because all the transactions were through third part illegal sellers. It's virtually impossible to stop these illegal sellers so what should a company do?

    Apparently the big companies feel that they must become the sellers themselves. This will allow them to make a profit, pretty much eliminate illegal selling (who would by gold from a shady site when they could get it officially from the company legally), and open the oppurtunity up to everyone (as before gold/item buying was only open to those willing to "break the law").

    I'll admit I don't like it, but its the logical thing to do and it's the players fault for making them do this. Sadly these days most people would rather spend $10 to get those blue items then play the game for 5 hours and earn them. But as long as I can still compete with those who buy stuff I'll be happy.

     

     

  • VengerVenger York, PAPosts: 1,318Member

    Originally posted by ForumPvP

    I think its more like vacuum cleaner cleaning  MMO´s.

    Carebears gathered into one place and shop is open,there they can buy whatever they want and for every cheat they want then company  gives them  real money penalty tickets for excange ,and its ok as long as they stay inside their  vacuum bags.

     

     

     

     

     

    Wow that is some amazing spin.  I don't know wth carebears have to do with RMT but you managed to toss a zinger in.  +1 for flying out of left field.

  • wesjrwesjr Gilbert, AZPosts: 366Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by apocoluster

      Im for it..if anyone should be making money on the side it should be the actual game developers. Ive used third parties before but no longer have to sweat it as the devs themselves have seen the light of yet another income source.

     

    This is the part I do not understand, that is like saying that Ford, GM, Dodge should get $$ from you selling "thier" car.

     

    While I may not "own" the gold in game, It is still my gold.  On one hand it is ok if I give you 10k but if I say hy give me $20 for this 10k then it is wrong.

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member

    Originally posted by drakes821

    Apparently the big companies feel that they must become the sellers themselves. This will allow them to make a profit, pretty much eliminate illegal selling (who would by gold from a shady site when they could get it officially from the company legally), and open the oppurtunity up to everyone (as before gold/item buying was only open to those willing to "break the law").I'll admit I don't like it, but its the logical thing to do and it's the players fault for making them do this. Sadly these days most people would rather spend $10 to get those blue items then play the game for 5 hours and earn them. But as long as I can still compete with those who buy stuff I'll be happy.

     

     

    This is wrong on every level.

    Have you ever heard of free games before? Microtransactions?

    The makers of Atlantica Online and Runes of Magic were making more money than a lot of pay to play games. Runes of Magic made almost 30 million dollars in profits for the company in 2010 and enough over the last 3 years that it funded the making of Tera...

    Who the hell says that a company cannot make a game with normal loot drops and a ton and a half of micro transaction items? And who are you to say that the only people that buy items like that are those to lazy to do the way you do? Not everyone can play as long as you do and on top of that, who the hell can say the only way a game can be fun is if you put in 10 hours to get an item and it cant be, hey, spend $5 for that item and go do something else in game that you find more enjoyable...omg, options...they suck when its not one I want!

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • RoyalPhunkRoyalPhunk Vancouver, BCPosts: 174Member

    If you get a million people playing this game their will be RMT. Just much less of it, with the system they took from EvE in place. The only issue when EvE did this is the value of GTCs and plexes would fluctuate so sometimes you could get 600M Isk for your 30 day and sometimes 300M so long as they can keep the price somewhat regular I think it is great.

    Remember this will happen regardless of whether you like it, don't like it or hate it. People are lazy and they will always RMT if they need to. But with this game being not based around a gear grind AND this system of buying gems or whatever in place it should curb it considerably. I like this move by Areananet.

  • fundayzfundayz Chatown, ONPosts: 463Member

    Originally posted by jtcgs

    Oh BTW, I am also then going to ignore the fact that if the company is doing it, its no longer cheating and thus there is nothing for the company to endorse...other than funding their game.

    Face it, your head is stuck in the old tired way of MMORPGs. GW2 is going to be a game where you spending 60 hours a week farming mobs for in game money is going to get you what you want...either gear or bragging rights. The old way is just that...old and outdated.

    If you cannot except that, there are other games for you that will allow you to play in the past.

    /sigh

    That's the whole point of the thread... how is RMT not cheating simply because the developers decided to take part in it? Nothing about it except the supplier has changed so if it was considered cheating before how is it not considered cheating now?

  • frestonfreston orensePosts: 521Member

    Probably when they stopped charging subscriptions to play

  • MeltdownMeltdown Home, NHPosts: 1,184Member Uncommon

    RMT is a problem with me because I am cheap... I am really cheap... or as I like to say I am frugal. And given the option to NOT pay for content  I won't. And that puts me in a predicament... because I don't mind spending $15 a month for content, but when I am confronted with each and every purchase that may increase my enjoyment of a game I will 95% of the time say "NO WAY". 

     

    I understand this is a psychological issue, and monetary-wise there may be no "meaningful" difference between paying $15 a month and paying for $3 worth of content every week. But microtransactions leave a sour taste in my mouth, and will often drive me away from a game with how cheap I am as a person. I have the money... I would just rather save it and play the game without paying, and eventually get frustrated because I don't want to have to pay for the smallest upgrade that would make the game more enjoyable...

     

    Maybe I will get used to it down the road, but for now I can't bring myself to take part in the microtranscation game.

    "They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath

  • CzelawCzelaw Florence, KYPosts: 167Member Uncommon

    I blame the gota have it now! gen. ie. my teen age kids and the younger croud...kinda funny, If they click a button or need somthing and its not instantly there its either broken or not any good. lol just a thought

    image
  • MeltdownMeltdown Home, NHPosts: 1,184Member Uncommon

    Ugh meant to edit and did quote, how do you delete posts?

    "They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath

  • MetentsoMetentso BarcelonaPosts: 1,436Member Common

    Developers don't care anymore about giving you a whole gaming experience as we were used. They care about money, and if a few of us are ready to spend 500€ every month...  just screw the rest.

    Where is that presentation where a developer explained their experience going F2P?

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,195Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Originally posted by Xzen


    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Just like the argument for legalizing drugs:

    You know they'll be safe(er) and clean(er) because they're regulated.

    You know the price will be more regulated because the market will be visible not hidden.

    The people in charge can then tax and get a cut of the profits.

    I mean, you ask me would I rather my money go to the company who made the game I enjoy or to the prison guard in China who is/was forcing inmates to farm gold in WoW -

    I'm going to answer "the company who made the game" every time.

    Have to +1 this. One of the best answers.

    Well, I mean the entire thing is based upon the fact that you always have a choice.

    Illegal or legal RMT, you are never forced to buy. It's a choice.

    Sure, you can feel strongly pursuaded to spend due to a variety of factors, but no one is holding a gun to your head.

    Can't really say the same thing about the illegal drug market though...

    Well then in your drug analogy the RMT should be tightly controlled and restricted.  A junky going to a methadone clinic doesn't get the real deal and the substitute is controlled and limited.  The whole idea behind legalization is that a dangerous system is monitored for the safety of the users and the general public to minimize crime.

    Legal RMT without limits imposed by the company doesn't mirror the drug scenario at all.  It would be like governments selling cheap clean drugs willie nilly and not considering the consequences.

    It may be better than an illegal RMT system, and that is questionable, but unregulated it will change how games are played and will have unintended side-effects and consequences.  Just opening up RMT without any thought at all (which sounds a lot like what those companies in the OP are doing) is a bad idea.  Just accepting it and letting it run unchecked due to the inevitibility of its occurance is far too fatalistic for my liking.

  • SepulcherSepulcher Phoenix, AZPosts: 216Member

    It happened when people realized it is just a game and that they would rather spend some money to save time.  Not everyone makes minimum wage and eats ramen noodles all the time.  Not everyone determines their self worth based on how well they do at a game.  So those who wish to enjoy playing a game instead of having a second job farming in it, will spend a small amount of money to help them do that.

    Do you realize it is just a game?

  • MetentsoMetentso BarcelonaPosts: 1,436Member Common

    Originally posted by Sepulcher

    It happened when people realized it is just a game and that they would rather spend some money to save time.  Not everyone makes minimum wage and eats ramen noodles all the time.  Not everyone determines their self worth based on how well they do at a game.  So those who wish to enjoy playing a game instead of having a second job farming in it, will spend a small amount of money to help them do that.

    Do you realize it is just a game?

    Games are supposed to be played. Do you play tennis and pay to have a set won?

  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,857Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by fundayzHow did the paradigm shift so much that people actually stand for it now when you would have had internet riots if this happened only 6 years ago?

     

    When everyone realized that some form of RMT was going on anyways.

    It's yet to be determined whether the floorgates will open with controlled and optional RMT or if it'll just remain the same as it's ever been; some people do it and some don't.

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member

    Originally posted by fundayz

    /sigh

    That's the whole point of the thread... how is RMT not cheating simply because the developers decided to take part in it? Nothing about it except the supplier has changed so if it was considered cheating before how is it not considered cheating now?

    /sigh

    Because it wasnt called cheating until companies actually called it such.

    There were NO problems at all with people SELLING HOUSES AND ACCOUNTS ON EBAY in UO, EQ1 and AC1 until Sony tried to put a stop to it back in 2001 which lead to Microsoft doing as well. Hell I made $750 selling my account with a level 112 character on my Asherons Call account before they put a stop to those things by placing it in the TOS.

    So again, if its up to the company to call something cheating...its up to them to stop calling it that. Its THEIR RULES not YOURS.

    Is it cheating for a free2play game based on microtransactions to sell items to fund the game? HELL NO...

    THAT is what GW2 is.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • garretthgarretth Chandler, AZPosts: 316Member

    The players have all the power...all the control.

    If you don't like the CS then don't play the game.   If you like GW2 and have decided to play, then play by the ruleset that has been developed by ANET.

    If after playing a month you feel that the CS impacts your fun of GW2 then give honest, unemotional feedback to ANET.

    MMO's are ever-evolving games.  Players do impact the original games but it takes time and metrics to fine tune a game.

    GW2 has the potential to be a great game...ANET and players have the potential to make it better or worse.

    Unemotional feedback based on ingame experience will help...wailing and weeping before we even get our hands on the game is absolutely worthless.

    The players have all the power.  Let's use it wisely.

Sign In or Register to comment.