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Massively article on GW2 cash shops

KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03/21/the-soapbox-the-hidden-perils-of-guild-wars-2s-microtransactio/

 

Interesting read. Still, the fact of the matter is cash shops are just a way to stop gold farmers or at the very least mitigate them and make a profit. If done right, not p2w, you might at the very least do the latter. It's still better than no cash shop and rampant gold famers....again, only if its done right.

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Comments

  • IamMMO123IamMMO123 Denver, COPosts: 1Member

    I hate cash shops of any kind.

     

    GW2's cash shop is nothing new and plenty of asian MMOs have adopted what Anet is trying to do with no avail. "Gold" spammers still run rampent in those games too.

  • ThorbrandThorbrand West Palm Beach, FLPosts: 1,198Member

    One reason I am waiting until after release before even thinking about playing the game. Have to find out how they are doing the cash shop and the PvE content.

  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member

    Umm just for a lil food for thought I want everyon to anwser these questions.

    "Can gold buy you [everything] in the game even if this is possible."

    "Is it [skill] or gear."

    "What are the actual[ in game mechanics] that make p2w, I.E could you p2w in a [dungeon], with [level scaling] what will you pay 2 win with?"

    "WvWvW's blue stamps are by gold, but in order to be [useful] you must have s[upply], so what can you do with both r/l money and gold?"

    "Are there [more currencies] that get you things that are[ non tradable]?"

    "If nothing in the cash shop gives you a free pass from an ass whooping what will you be buying to win since you [can't] win regardless?

    Thank you for your time and enjoy your day. I won't be responding to [any false claims] if these questions are answered. This is a bit of a learning experience for me and I'm sure others who know this already.

    Also interesting OP.

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • Zeus.CMZeus.CM ZagrebPosts: 1,788Member

    I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.

  • ariboersmaariboersma Yankton, SDPosts: 1,802Member

    I am surprised at how uninformed this writer is. They claim to be a long time RoM player yet they know very little about WHY RoM cash shop has failed.

    1. Most diamonds purchased are NOT tradeable. THAT alone is why diamonds cost so much from players. Basically they offer diamond specials every 2-3 weeks and none of those special diamonds are tradable.. and only when you buy them from specific sellers can they be traded. 

    2. RoM is a P2W system. If you want to play RoM even remotely competetively(meaning like join a guild and do raids) you can expect to pay anywhere from 30-100 RL dollars a month...this is ridiculous for a "F2P" game IMO. So when you add the lack of tradeable diamonds to the VERY high demand.

    if the writer added these very bits of info to the article I think it would have been a very different article.

    image

  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member

    Originally posted by thedarkess

    I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.

    It's amusing and I'm starting to enjoy it because that's all it is, that's all that's been stated literally lol.

     

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • El-HefeEl-Hefe Yakima, WAPosts: 609Member

    Originally posted by Kuppa

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03/21/the-soapbox-the-hidden-perils-of-guild-wars-2s-microtransactio/

     

    Interesting read. Still, the fact of the matter is cash shops are just a way to stop gold farmers or at the very least mitigate them and make a profit. If done right, not p2w, you might at the very least do the latter. It's still better than no cash shop and rampant gold famers....again, only if its done right.

    i dont think it will be pay to win.  but, i kind of agree with the author's point,  gold sellers can still farm gold, and they can use that gold to buy gems to get even more gold to sell, all while under-cutting Anet's gem price.

     

    edit: i do think it can cut down on gold sellers, but i dont think it will prevent them.

    I've got the straight edge.

  • HerodesHerodes DannenbergPosts: 1,494Member

    I bought a fluff item in GW1 cash shop which was advertised as "limited". Today they still offer it.

    Sorry, but if you do something like this, do it like...god I hate to say it... do it like WoW.

    Edit: Wedding couple attire

  • MetentsoMetentso BarcelonaPosts: 1,436Member Common

    Originally posted by thedarkess

    I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.

    Why everbody ignores the boosts? Not good for your argument that it's "not pay-to-win"?

  • El-HefeEl-Hefe Yakima, WAPosts: 609Member

    Originally posted by ariboersma

    I am surprised at how uninformed this writer is. They claim to be a long time RoM player yet they know very little about WHY RoM cash shop has failed.

    1. Most diamonds purchased are NOT tradeable. THAT alone is why diamonds cost so much from players. Basically they offer diamond specials every 2-3 weeks and none of those special diamonds are tradable.. and only when you buy them from specific sellers can they be traded. 

    2. RoM is a P2W system. If you want to play RoM even remotely competetively(meaning like join a guild and do raids) you can expect to pay anywhere from 30-100 RL dollars a month...this is ridiculous for a "F2P" game IMO. So when you add the lack of tradeable diamonds to the VERY high demand.

    if the writer added these very bits of info to the article I think it would have been a very different article.

    he talked about the fact that Diamonds used to be tradable in RoM, and that's when it went bad, hence why they stopped making them tradable.  and then speculated that it could possibly be a flaw in Gw2 design of the system.  he seemed very well informed.

    I've got the straight edge.

  • HerodesHerodes DannenbergPosts: 1,494Member

    I am not sure, if trading RL currency is neccessarily bad. It depends on the community - ok, it was sh!t when GW1 released.

    Now you cannot buy much pay-to win items in GW since let´s say the weapon damage is limited. In DAoC it was 16.5 damage per second. So if Anet has a strict number here, too, then it won´t affect door knocking...erm WvW much.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,000Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Metentso

    Why everbody ignores the boosts? Not good for your argument that it's "not pay-to-win"?

    The stuff that makes you level faster  is not really pay2win, it is more pay2be-lazy. Leveling up faster does not really make you win.

    I havn't seen anything on them selling in game buffs, but if they do I am pretty certain they are just like the dropped buffs in GW, PvE only.

  • ariboersmaariboersma Yankton, SDPosts: 1,802Member

    Originally posted by brody71

    Originally posted by ariboersma

    I am surprised at how uninformed this writer is. They claim to be a long time RoM player yet they know very little about WHY RoM cash shop has failed.

    1. Most diamonds purchased are NOT tradeable. THAT alone is why diamonds cost so much from players. Basically they offer diamond specials every 2-3 weeks and none of those special diamonds are tradable.. and only when you buy them from specific sellers can they be traded. 

    2. RoM is a P2W system. If you want to play RoM even remotely competetively(meaning like join a guild and do raids) you can expect to pay anywhere from 30-100 RL dollars a month...this is ridiculous for a "F2P" game IMO. So when you add the lack of tradeable diamonds to the VERY high demand.

    if the writer added these very bits of info to the article I think it would have been a very different article.

    he talked about the fact that Diamonds used to be tradable in RoM, and that's when it went bad, hence why they stopped making them tradable.  and then speculated that it could possibly be a flaw in Gw2 design of the system.  he seemed very well informed.

    that is not what I said, you have to understand how very little of the diamonds were even tradable. He said that tradeable diamonds were stopped to stop fraud. Not the same thing. Also its only remotely relevant.

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  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,000Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by brody71

    Originally posted by ariboersma

    I am surprised at how uninformed this writer is. They claim to be a long time RoM player yet they know very little about WHY RoM cash shop has failed.

    1. Most diamonds purchased are NOT tradeable. THAT alone is why diamonds cost so much from players. Basically they offer diamond specials every 2-3 weeks and none of those special diamonds are tradable.. and only when you buy them from specific sellers can they be traded. 

    2. RoM is a P2W system. If you want to play RoM even remotely competetively(meaning like join a guild and do raids) you can expect to pay anywhere from 30-100 RL dollars a month...this is ridiculous for a "F2P" game IMO. So when you add the lack of tradeable diamonds to the VERY high demand.

    if the writer added these very bits of info to the article I think it would have been a very different article.

    he talked about the fact that Diamonds used to be tradable in RoM, and that's when it went bad, hence why they stopped making them tradable.  and then speculated that it could possibly be a flaw in Gw2 design of the system.  he seemed very well informed.

    He might be right of course, but RoMs cashshop sells gear with stats and similar things so it isn't neccesarily true for GW2 as well.

    To be honest does the stuff GW2 peddle you seems like junk with just different appearance or that make you level faster, you can´t compare that with selling gear that is far above standard gear.

  • El-HefeEl-Hefe Yakima, WAPosts: 609Member

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by brody71


    Originally posted by ariboersma

    I am surprised at how uninformed this writer is. They claim to be a long time RoM player yet they know very little about WHY RoM cash shop has failed.

    1. Most diamonds purchased are NOT tradeable. THAT alone is why diamonds cost so much from players. Basically they offer diamond specials every 2-3 weeks and none of those special diamonds are tradable.. and only when you buy them from specific sellers can they be traded. 

    2. RoM is a P2W system. If you want to play RoM even remotely competetively(meaning like join a guild and do raids) you can expect to pay anywhere from 30-100 RL dollars a month...this is ridiculous for a "F2P" game IMO. So when you add the lack of tradeable diamonds to the VERY high demand.

    if the writer added these very bits of info to the article I think it would have been a very different article.

    he talked about the fact that Diamonds used to be tradable in RoM, and that's when it went bad, hence why they stopped making them tradable.  and then speculated that it could possibly be a flaw in Gw2 design of the system.  he seemed very well informed.

    He might be right of course, but RoMs cashshop sells gear with stats and similar things so it isn't neccesarily true for GW2 as well.

    To be honest does the stuff GW2 peddle you seems like junk with just different appearance or that make you level faster, you can´t compare that with selling gear that is far above standard gear.

    oh i agree. i dont think gw2 will be pay to win at all.  but he didnt compare that part of RoM to Gw2. he compared the parts he saw a similar.  the trading of gems for gold.

    I've got the straight edge.

  • CursedseiCursedsei Clarkston, MIPosts: 1,012Member

    Originally posted by Metentso

    Originally posted by thedarkess

    I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.

    Why everbody ignores the boosts? Not good for your argument that it's "not pay-to-win"?

    Before you try to claim something is "not good for ones argument", you actually need to provide one of your own. Something like "Boosts are Pay-2-win because of yada yada". Just making a very basic sentence with less meat on its bone than a bleached skeleton isn't a shining example of an argument.

    In structured PvP, your levels are boosted to the cap, which removes what little "help" an exp booster would provide. You earn experience in all forms of PvP, and in the case of WvWvW there is a range of content available to contribute for despite one's level.

    And in PvE, your level can be kicked down in areas so as not to provide an obscene advantage like you usually see in games (no killing a lvl 5 npc as an 80 for instance). So over-leveling in an area isn't going to do jack squat for you.

     

    The ONLY advantage quicker leveling would provide is quicker access to trait lines and points for it. Yet that isn't going to provide an obscene advantage either.

  • MadimorgaMadimorga Atlanta, GAPosts: 1,887Member Uncommon

    Since everything I've heard about WvW indicates that gear and level will have some effect on player strength (gear isn't equalized and a level 80 has access to skills that a level 1 doesn't), being able to level faster than a non cash shop user does matter.

     

    And WvW was what I was most looking forward to. 

    image

    I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

    ~Albert Einstein

  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member

    Originally posted by Madimorga

    Since everything I've heard about WvW indicates that gear and level will have some effect on player strength (gear isn't equalized and a level 80 has access to skills that a level 1 doesn't), being able to level faster than a non cash shop user does matter.

     

    And WvW was what I was most looking forward to. 

    Please tell me what you can you buy that makes your level faster.

    I know and you know. This shit is amusing as fuck.

    A matter of fact because I notice how you use to use that blue stamp argument please tell me the power difference because as of right nw we both don't know, but not even a person with lvl 80 gear can 1 hit k.o a level 2 and you want to know why?

    Also please inform us if killing gives points in winning wvwvw which it doesn't, spawn camping? nooooo lol

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • Master_M2KMaster_M2K LondonPosts: 244Member

    Originally posted by Metentso

    Originally posted by thedarkess

    I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.

    Why everbody ignores the boosts? Not good for your argument that it's "not pay-to-win"?

    The Guild System will offers boost of their own, so I could care less if the cash shop offers a +20% XP for 12hrs scroll. Wouldn't affect my gameplay. "Pay-2-Look Cool" or "Pay-to-Skip"... eitherway I doubt it would be "Pay-to-Win".

    image

  • Games888Games888 Chicago, ILPosts: 243Member

    would u buy gem from Anet  if gold seller can sell cheaper? see it defeats the purpose of  running around in circle. 

  • Master_M2KMaster_M2K LondonPosts: 244Member

    Originally posted by Madimorga

    Since everything I've heard about WvW indicates that gear and level will have some effect on player strength (gear isn't equalized and a level 80 has access to skills that a level 1 doesn't), being able to level faster than a non cash shop user does matter.

     

    And WvW was what I was most looking forward to. 

    Guess I won't be killing you in the Eternal Battlegrounds. What a shame. image

    image

  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member

    Originally posted by Master_M2K

    Originally posted by Metentso


    Originally posted by thedarkess

    I've read some of the comments on the article, and really got me: this is not pay-to-win. It will be pay-to-look-cool or pay-for-fashion. Also, gw2 gear system at endgame is horizontal as they said, not vertical and because of that pay-to-win isn't really posible at the end.

    Why everbody ignores the boosts? Not good for your argument that it's "not pay-to-win"?

    The Guild System will offers boost of their own, so I could care less if the cash shop offers a +20% XP for 12hrs scroll. Wouldn't affect my gameplay. "Pay-2-Look Cool" or "Pay-to-Skip"... eitherway I doubt it would be "Pay-to-Win".

    What about if the cash shop offered influence boosts which in turn can be used to get those Guild System boosts faster?  The DE/CE edition already has a flat influence item (and glory).  EXP boosts are pretty meaningless, the real potential problem here is that they could sell loot, karma, glory, and influence boosts and label it a convenience item when they do have an effect on gameplay in that a player can acquire these currencies that are used for gear (or other more permenant currency boosts through the guild influence system) much faster through the use of real money.

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    Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:
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  • MadimorgaMadimorga Atlanta, GAPosts: 1,887Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Master_M2K

    Originally posted by Madimorga

    Since everything I've heard about WvW indicates that gear and level will have some effect on player strength (gear isn't equalized and a level 80 has access to skills that a level 1 doesn't), being able to level faster than a non cash shop user does matter.

     

    And WvW was what I was most looking forward to. 

    Guess I won't be killing you in the Eternal Battlegrounds. What a shame. image

    Nope, the way this is shaping up market pvp will be the only thing in this game that interests me.

    image

    I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

    ~Albert Einstein

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,912Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Madimorga

    Since everything I've heard about WvW indicates that gear and level will have some effect on player strength (gear isn't equalized and a level 80 has access to skills that a level 1 doesn't), being able to level faster than a non cash shop user does matter.

     

    And WvW was what I was most looking forward to. 

    WvW isn't about individual skill or effort though, the only way that would be an issue is if everyone on the opposing force had such an advantage while everyone on your side didn't. How likely is that?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • terrantterrant Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 1,683Member

    Originally posted by Madimorga

    Since everything I've heard about WvW indicates that gear and level will have some effect on player strength (gear isn't equalized and a level 80 has access to skills that a level 1 doesn't), being able to level faster than a non cash shop user does matter.

     

    And WvW was what I was most looking forward to. 

    Couple things.

     

    1) If 99% of the people in wvw are max level and you, being a lowly level one, suck because you haven't got enough skills, quit wasting time wvwing and go level. And if you want to level via pvp.../shrug.

    2) Levelling is finite. Yay. Maybe for a couple days, that cash shop player might be ahead of you. Then you hit max level and it stops mattering

    3) If WvW ends up as massive as Anet wants, there will be hordes of players from 3 servers all fighting at once...garauntee you there will be a signifigant mix of low and high level players at all times. So you won't be the only one with less skill points. From a team perspective, it will all balance out. From an individual....well if you're a lower level walking into wvw and hoping to top leaderboaards, you have another thought coming.

    4) WvW isn't going to be won by kills. It will be won by capturing points, acquiring supplies, and using those suplies to build offensive/defensive structures. From what I can tell, your individual stats don't affect those. So your states and individual combat effectiveness may not per se have a huge impact on WvW gameplay as much as teamwork and organization. Crazy concept, I know, but let's see if it works.

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