"MMO veterans will note the similarities of our system to EVE Online’s PLEX system. As in that case, our system takes gold trading out of the hands of real-money trading (RMT) companies and puts it directly in the hands of players."
"If a player buys gold from another player, he gets the gold he wants, the selling player gets gems she can use for microtransactions, and ArenaNet generates revenue from the sale of gems that we can use to keep supporting and updating the game. Everyone wins."
I think it's a smart move to fight gold sellers within the system and bring additional reveneue at the same time.
It's silly to ignore the black gold-selling market. The developers have so many possibilities to regulate the market in the game right from the start, just by creating a robust base/system that anticipates gold selling.
It's smarter than making ingame<->out-of-game transaction a moral issue. Why lose part of the playerbase (the "evil" gold buying players), when you can make money out of those same "evil" players?
I think it's possible to strike a ballance between the items' utility and the purchase method.
If they keep enough unique rewards through karma for bragging rights, and pay attention to what kind of convenience items they sell (so players won't get the feeling that they have to buy items in the ingame shop in order to keep playing normally or in order to keep the pace with other players), this will work well.
I'm curious what all the shop will offer.
But it's a slippery slope. If ArenaNet does it wrong with the convenience items or "bragging rights" items, they'll have an uprise, and rightfully so.
Once the game begins, this will be a fizzle issue.
Player A plays 8 hours a day will have more mats and better in game items than Player B who drops $50 and only plays 2 hours a day. That's a fact jack.
If a game is going to have a mirco transaction model the system described in the blog is probably the best way to go about it. By allowing players to trade gold for gems and gems for gold it helps everyone.
My biggest beef with Fremium games in general(not GW2 specifically) is that most them are created to be frustrating unless you spend money in their cash shop. Endless hurdles that have little to do with real game play are thrown in front of you which can only be removed by a cash shop item. For instance - the game is balanced leveling wise assuming you use their most powerfull bonus xp potions. If you do not use those potions the game grinds to a halt with mindnumbing grind that just isnt fun. In order to get gear that is reasonable you end up having to enchant the gear which becomes almost impossible unless you buy the special enchantment gems from the store etc etc.
From what I can tell GW2 will not have those built in frustrations to deal with. So long as this remains true I do not have a problem with a microtransaction game.
Nah ... we first have to see what the shop is actually going to sell.
They worded things very cleverly. They said no unfair advantage for players who bought Gems over players who grinded gold for them; that still doesn't leave out that you'll need Gems to overcome unfair advantages.
They didn't say: "No unfair advantages between people who use Gems to buy stuff over people who don't buy or grind for Gems".
If it ends up that player A needs to grind gold for a day to be able to buy that uber leveling buff which works for a few hours, and player B simply gets it by pulling his wallet each day, (just to give an example) it would be a damn shame.
Once the game begins, this will be a fizzle issue.
Player A plays 8 hours a day will have more mats and better in game items than Player B who drops $50 and only plays 2 hours a day. That's a fact jack.
What about player C, who plays 8 hours a day AND drops $50 ?
Once the game begins, this will be a fizzle issue.
Player A plays 8 hours a day will have more mats and better in game items than Player B who drops $50 and only plays 2 hours a day. That's a fact jack.
What about player C, who plays 8 hours a day AND drops $50 ?
I dont like this... They had a similar system in RoM which was better then most free to play but still sucked! Could get so rich just spending a little bit of money
Once the game begins, this will be a fizzle issue.
Player A plays 8 hours a day will have more mats and better in game items than Player B who drops $50 and only plays 2 hours a day. That's a fact jack.
What about player C, who plays 8 hours a day AND drops $50 ?
Player C = Win
Wins what? Please tell me what can he buy that will make him better than a person who has the same amount of kharma? Because all you trade for is gold=convience items. Or are you really just mad that gold farmers won't be able to sell you that uber elite item?
So lets make it simple for you.
Player A and Player C will have more than B. That's a fact Jack. Player C will have shiny shop items, maybe some nice purple slippers.
Once the game begins, this will be a fizzle issue.
Player A plays 8 hours a day will have more mats and better in game items than Player B who drops $50 and only plays 2 hours a day. That's a fact jack.
What about player C, who plays 8 hours a day AND drops $50 ?
Player C = Win
Wins what? Please tell me what can he buy that will make him better than a person who has the same amount of kharma? Because all you trade for is gold=convience items. Or are you really just mad that gold farmers won't be able to sell you that uber elite item?
So lets make it simple for you.
Player A and Player C will have more than B. That's a fact Jack. Player C will have shiny shop items, maybe some nice purple slippers.
Let ME make it even simpler for YOU... grab a beer, or make a martini, or maybe roll a dube and just chill out. You folks are really hilarious worrying and fretting about something in a game that hasn't even released yet. Between the 'haters', and the 'oh my'ers, and the fan-bois, and all the fussing and worrying all of you folks are doing you're all going to have high blood pressure and ulcers before launch.
My reply was sarcasm (and hilarious to boot).
The only places funnier than the GW2 forums are any others Star Wars related...
What would be an even bigger shame would be if the average monthly cost of the game over a year ended up costing more than an average sub for a P2P mmo.
I remember hearing from ANet how B2P was all about liberation from the oppressive sub model. No sub and micro-transactions costing more than a sub to get the full game doesn't appeal to me at all. It's one of the main reasons I stopped playing LotRO.
alot of asian f2p mmo ppl end up paying more than playing sub game.
Nah ... we first have to see what the shop is actually going to sell.
They worded things very cleverly. They said no unfair advantage for players who bought Gems over players who grinded gold for them; that still doesn't leave out that you'll need Gems to overcome unfair advantages.
They didn't say: "No unfair advantages between people who use Gems to buy stuff over people who don't buy or grind for Gems".
If it ends up that player A needs to grind gold for a day to be able to buy that uber leveling buff which works for a few hours, and player B simply gets it by pulling his wallet each day, (just to give an example) it would be a damn shame.
What would be an even bigger shame would be if the average monthly cost of the game over a year ended up costing more than an average sub for a P2P mmo.
I remember hearing from ANet how B2P was all about liberation from the oppressive sub model. No sub and micro-transactions costing more than a sub to get the full game doesn't appeal to me at all. It's one of the main reasons I stopped playing LotRO.
What they've said, and I will agree to this, is the amount you spend is entirely up to what you think is reasonable.
Now, Iused to play a game called Conquer, many of you may know it. It has cash shop-pruchased stones for weapon/armor upgrades (meteors) There were players who would regularly spend US $30-40 a month in meteors. Or more. and those DID give them a massive advantage over others. Thus far Anet seems to be telling us that's not how they will roll, but we'll have to wait and see. Personally, I intend to just play the game and have fun. I might do some WvWvW at some point, but I'm not obsessing over pvp content. Mind you I'm also hoping vitory in pvp will be about which team uses smart tactics/manages resources well, and not about who can farm the most kills.
how is this a good thing? rich dudes will buy gems with money then sell a million of them for gold and have the best money can buy right away. i was thinking about playing this game now im disgusted.
how is this a good thing? rich dudes will buy gems with money then sell a million of them for gold and have the best money can buy right away. i was thinking about playing this game now im disgusted.
You nailed it right away. "The best money can buy"
From what we can tell, that's very little. the top end gear will be earnable through Karma, which CANNOT be bought by any other means than earning in game.
I cant wait to be able to buy all the best gear and in game advantages through this cash shop! Its so great being rich and playing mmos. No other entertainment allows such luxury for me to spend my wealth on!
Once the game begins, this will be a fizzle issue.
Player A plays 8 hours a day will have more mats and better in game items than Player B who drops $50 and only plays 2 hours a day. That's a fact jack.
What about player C, who plays 8 hours a day AND drops $50 ?
Player C = Win
Wins what? Please tell me what can he buy that will make him better than a person who has the same amount of kharma? Because all you trade for is gold=convience items. Or are you really just mad that gold farmers won't be able to sell you that uber elite item?
So lets make it simple for you.
Player A and Player C will have more than B. That's a fact Jack. Player C will have shiny shop items, maybe some nice purple slippers.
Let ME make it even simpler for YOU... grab a beer, or make a martini, or maybe roll a dube and just chill out. You folks are really hilarious worrying and fretting about something in a game that hasn't even released yet. Between the 'haters', and the 'oh my'ers, and the fan-bois, and all the fussing and worrying all of you folks are doing you're all going to have high blood pressure and ulcers before launch.
My reply was sarcasm (and hilarious to boot).
The only places funnier than the GW2 forums are any others Star Wars related...
/makes more popcorn ;-)
Didn't they say already you'd be able to buy convenience items like faster levelling? Heals?
how is this a good thing? rich dudes will buy gems with money then sell a million of them for gold and have the best money can buy right away. i was thinking about playing this game now im disgusted.
IRL ppl live in a f*cked up economy and no one gives a shit and actually suport this. But when it comes to a game they make it sound so serious like they*re some kind of hippies and sundely its unfair for everybody.
how is this a good thing? rich dudes will buy gems with money then sell a million of them for gold and have the best money can buy right away. i was thinking about playing this game now im disgusted.
Anyone who hits the level cap will have 'the best money can buy' straight away. Go play GW1 and see what we mean.
There are no tiers of gear at endgame. Everyone will be on an equal footing. If you feel that you need to pay RL cash for an appearance item, thats your business, but it wont make you any better in PvE or PvP.
how is this a good thing? rich dudes will buy gems with money then sell a million of them for gold and have the best money can buy right away. i was thinking about playing this game now im disgusted.
You nailed it right away. "The best money can buy"
From what we can tell, that's very little. the top end gear will be earnable through Karma, which CANNOT be bought by any other means than earning in game.
if you can buy gems and get in game gold for them you are either saying there wont be anything worth a shit on the auction house to buy with gold which sucks, or your saying that rich people are gonna be stacked with all the good shit you can buy on the auction house which also sucks.
how is this a good thing? rich dudes will buy gems with money then sell a million of them for gold and have the best money can buy right away. i was thinking about playing this game now im disgusted.
Anyone who hits the level cap will have 'the best money can buy' straight away. Go play GW1 and see what we mean.
There are no tiers of gear at endgame. Everyone will be on an equal footing. If you feel that you need to pay RL cash for an appearance item, thats your business, but it wont make you any better in PvE or PvP.
i played gw1 for a few months and i remember seeing people selling good items all the time, but i only played for a short time so maybe it changed
If they want my confidence then they should buy back gems for the same price they sell them for, so that players can actually make money from the system and prevent inflation. If they aren't willing to do this, then it's just a cash grab, that's it, end of story.
Yeah, appears its just a money maker for Arena net. If you can't sell gems back to Arena then who cares.
Also don't see how this will definitely cancel out gold farming. Gold farmers collect gold, sell the gold directly to players for real money below the cost of going the Arena net route. It could be that the gold farmers get turned off because they won't make good money. All depends on what the dollars to Arena to buy gems, gems sold to player for gold route translates to.
Stolen accounts will still be worth real money too. This will do nothing to that.
it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time.
Did everyone miss this part?
Just about every single F2P and cash shop game has the exact same system. You CAN invest 100's of 1000's of hours into the game and farm everything. Or you can spend 20 bucks here and there to buy it instantly. LOTRO is a great example of a game that has done it right, and wrong in the same sense!
On one hand you can buy items that instantly teleport you around the world (on a 10m timer). This is perfectly OK as it doesn't give you a real advantage, it just saves you wasted time you would normally spend auto running or AFK riding to that location.
On the other hand you have quests packs, expansion packs, health/power potions, food, buffs, perm stat boosts and much more available from the store. Yes, "most" of these items can be found in the game, that isn't a resonable excuse. The health potions (that are on a unique timer when compared to normal game potions) are a pretty nice addition and could easily make the difference in a fight. The chances of finding these potions in the game are next to none.
The problem is this, not enough players are willing to spend 20 bucks on a mount or cosmetic armor change. The game won't get the support it needs to add new content. If they bump up the shop to include things that more players are willing to buy (potions, buffs, items, stats) then you get into the area of what's required and what isn't to compete.
The issue comes down to balance, how much time is saved by buying "stuff" in the shop compared to farming the game for it. A 1:1 ratio is unacceptable to most gamers. If you had to work your real job for 1 hour, in order to spend that money on an item in the game that would take you 1 hour to earn you would never do it. What is an acceptable ratio? How many real job hours should you have to work to save yourself how many game hours?
how is this a good thing? rich dudes will buy gems with money then sell a million of them for gold and have the best money can buy right away. i was thinking about playing this game now im disgusted.
You nailed it right away. "The best money can buy"
From what we can tell, that's very little. the top end gear will be earnable through Karma, which CANNOT be bought by any other means than earning in game.
if you can buy gems and get in game gold for them you are either saying there wont be anything worth a shit on the auction house to buy with gold which sucks, or your saying that rich people are gonna be stacked with all the good shit you can buy on the auction house which also sucks.
What I'm saying is, gold may not matter all that much. Other currencies, which require you to do crazy things like play the game and be good at it, will be where the good stuff comes from. this may not be a game for economists trying to make fortunes on the AH. Personally, I never saw the appeal of that, so I'm cool with it. I get that's not the same for everyone though.
how is this a good thing? rich dudes will buy gems with money then sell a million of them for gold and have the best money can buy right away. i was thinking about playing this game now im disgusted.
You nailed it right away. "The best money can buy"
From what we can tell, that's very little. the top end gear will be earnable through Karma, which CANNOT be bought by any other means than earning in game.
if you can buy gems and get in game gold for them you are either saying there wont be anything worth a shit on the auction house to buy with gold which sucks, or your saying that rich people are gonna be stacked with all the good shit you can buy on the auction house which also sucks.
What I'm saying is, gold may not matter all that much. Other currencies, which require you to do crazy things like play the game and be good at it, will be where the good stuff comes from. this may not be a game for economists trying to make fortunes on the AH. Personally, I never saw the appeal of that, so I'm cool with it. I get that's not the same for everyone though.
so your ok with the fact that the economy will be completely screwed up the second the game goes live?
Comments
"MMO veterans will note the similarities of our system to EVE Online’s PLEX system. As in that case, our system takes gold trading out of the hands of real-money trading (RMT) companies and puts it directly in the hands of players."
"If a player buys gold from another player, he gets the gold he wants, the selling player gets gems she can use for microtransactions, and ArenaNet generates revenue from the sale of gems that we can use to keep supporting and updating the game. Everyone wins."
I think it's a smart move to fight gold sellers within the system and bring additional reveneue at the same time.
It's silly to ignore the black gold-selling market. The developers have so many possibilities to regulate the market in the game right from the start, just by creating a robust base/system that anticipates gold selling.
It's smarter than making ingame<->out-of-game transaction a moral issue. Why lose part of the playerbase (the "evil" gold buying players), when you can make money out of those same "evil" players?
I think it's possible to strike a ballance between the items' utility and the purchase method.
If they keep enough unique rewards through karma for bragging rights, and pay attention to what kind of convenience items they sell (so players won't get the feeling that they have to buy items in the ingame shop in order to keep playing normally or in order to keep the pace with other players), this will work well.
I'm curious what all the shop will offer.
But it's a slippery slope. If ArenaNet does it wrong with the convenience items or "bragging rights" items, they'll have an uprise, and rightfully so.
Once the game begins, this will be a fizzle issue.
Player A plays 8 hours a day will have more mats and better in game items than Player B who drops $50 and only plays 2 hours a day. That's a fact jack.
Good thing we didnt ask you.
If a game is going to have a mirco transaction model the system described in the blog is probably the best way to go about it. By allowing players to trade gold for gems and gems for gold it helps everyone.
My biggest beef with Fremium games in general(not GW2 specifically) is that most them are created to be frustrating unless you spend money in their cash shop. Endless hurdles that have little to do with real game play are thrown in front of you which can only be removed by a cash shop item. For instance - the game is balanced leveling wise assuming you use their most powerfull bonus xp potions. If you do not use those potions the game grinds to a halt with mindnumbing grind that just isnt fun. In order to get gear that is reasonable you end up having to enchant the gear which becomes almost impossible unless you buy the special enchantment gems from the store etc etc.
From what I can tell GW2 will not have those built in frustrations to deal with. So long as this remains true I do not have a problem with a microtransaction game.
Nah ... we first have to see what the shop is actually going to sell.
They worded things very cleverly. They said no unfair advantage for players who bought Gems over players who grinded gold for them; that still doesn't leave out that you'll need Gems to overcome unfair advantages.
They didn't say: "No unfair advantages between people who use Gems to buy stuff over people who don't buy or grind for Gems".
If it ends up that player A needs to grind gold for a day to be able to buy that uber leveling buff which works for a few hours, and player B simply gets it by pulling his wallet each day, (just to give an example) it would be a damn shame.
My brand new bloggity blog.
What about player C, who plays 8 hours a day AND drops $50 ?
Once upon a time....
Player C = Win
I dont like this... They had a similar system in RoM which was better then most free to play but still sucked! Could get so rich just spending a little bit of money
Wins what? Please tell me what can he buy that will make him better than a person who has the same amount of kharma? Because all you trade for is gold=convience items. Or are you really just mad that gold farmers won't be able to sell you that uber elite item?
So lets make it simple for you.
Player A and Player C will have more than B. That's a fact Jack. Player C will have shiny shop items, maybe some nice purple slippers.
Let ME make it even simpler for YOU... grab a beer, or make a martini, or maybe roll a dube and just chill out. You folks are really hilarious worrying and fretting about something in a game that hasn't even released yet. Between the 'haters', and the 'oh my'ers, and the fan-bois, and all the fussing and worrying all of you folks are doing you're all going to have high blood pressure and ulcers before launch.
My reply was sarcasm (and hilarious to boot).
The only places funnier than the GW2 forums are any others Star Wars related...
/makes more popcorn ;-)
Seems fair enough with the gold to gem market possibility, after all there is no monthly fee.
alot of asian f2p mmo ppl end up paying more than playing sub game.
What they've said, and I will agree to this, is the amount you spend is entirely up to what you think is reasonable.
Now, Iused to play a game called Conquer, many of you may know it. It has cash shop-pruchased stones for weapon/armor upgrades (meteors) There were players who would regularly spend US $30-40 a month in meteors. Or more. and those DID give them a massive advantage over others. Thus far Anet seems to be telling us that's not how they will roll, but we'll have to wait and see. Personally, I intend to just play the game and have fun. I might do some WvWvW at some point, but I'm not obsessing over pvp content. Mind you I'm also hoping vitory in pvp will be about which team uses smart tactics/manages resources well, and not about who can farm the most kills.
how is this a good thing? rich dudes will buy gems with money then sell a million of them for gold and have the best money can buy right away. i was thinking about playing this game now im disgusted.
played a million mmo's
You nailed it right away. "The best money can buy"
From what we can tell, that's very little. the top end gear will be earnable through Karma, which CANNOT be bought by any other means than earning in game.
Everyone thats excited about the cash shop please consider looking at the guild I have started in this thread!
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/344470/Gem-Millionaires-Recruiting-Players-That-Spend-On-Cash-Shops-Full-Vanity-Gear-Only.html
I cant wait to be able to buy all the best gear and in game advantages through this cash shop! Its so great being rich and playing mmos. No other entertainment allows such luxury for me to spend my wealth on!
Didn't they say already you'd be able to buy convenience items like faster levelling? Heals?
Once upon a time....
IRL ppl live in a f*cked up economy and no one gives a shit and actually suport this. But when it comes to a game they make it sound so serious like they*re some kind of hippies and sundely its unfair for everybody.
Anyone who hits the level cap will have 'the best money can buy' straight away. Go play GW1 and see what we mean.
There are no tiers of gear at endgame. Everyone will be on an equal footing. If you feel that you need to pay RL cash for an appearance item, thats your business, but it wont make you any better in PvE or PvP.
if you can buy gems and get in game gold for them you are either saying there wont be anything worth a shit on the auction house to buy with gold which sucks, or your saying that rich people are gonna be stacked with all the good shit you can buy on the auction house which also sucks.
played a million mmo's
i played gw1 for a few months and i remember seeing people selling good items all the time, but i only played for a short time so maybe it changed
played a million mmo's
Yeah, appears its just a money maker for Arena net. If you can't sell gems back to Arena then who cares.
Also don't see how this will definitely cancel out gold farming. Gold farmers collect gold, sell the gold directly to players for real money below the cost of going the Arena net route. It could be that the gold farmers get turned off because they won't make good money. All depends on what the dollars to Arena to buy gems, gems sold to player for gold route translates to.
Stolen accounts will still be worth real money too. This will do nothing to that.
Did everyone miss this part?
Just about every single F2P and cash shop game has the exact same system. You CAN invest 100's of 1000's of hours into the game and farm everything. Or you can spend 20 bucks here and there to buy it instantly. LOTRO is a great example of a game that has done it right, and wrong in the same sense!
On one hand you can buy items that instantly teleport you around the world (on a 10m timer). This is perfectly OK as it doesn't give you a real advantage, it just saves you wasted time you would normally spend auto running or AFK riding to that location.
On the other hand you have quests packs, expansion packs, health/power potions, food, buffs, perm stat boosts and much more available from the store. Yes, "most" of these items can be found in the game, that isn't a resonable excuse. The health potions (that are on a unique timer when compared to normal game potions) are a pretty nice addition and could easily make the difference in a fight. The chances of finding these potions in the game are next to none.
The problem is this, not enough players are willing to spend 20 bucks on a mount or cosmetic armor change. The game won't get the support it needs to add new content. If they bump up the shop to include things that more players are willing to buy (potions, buffs, items, stats) then you get into the area of what's required and what isn't to compete.
The issue comes down to balance, how much time is saved by buying "stuff" in the shop compared to farming the game for it. A 1:1 ratio is unacceptable to most gamers. If you had to work your real job for 1 hour, in order to spend that money on an item in the game that would take you 1 hour to earn you would never do it. What is an acceptable ratio? How many real job hours should you have to work to save yourself how many game hours?
What I'm saying is, gold may not matter all that much. Other currencies, which require you to do crazy things like play the game and be good at it, will be where the good stuff comes from. this may not be a game for economists trying to make fortunes on the AH. Personally, I never saw the appeal of that, so I'm cool with it. I get that's not the same for everyone though.
so your ok with the fact that the economy will be completely screwed up the second the game goes live?
played a million mmo's