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1.2 the beginning of the end.

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  • TeknoBugTeknoBug Calgary, ABPosts: 2,156Member


    Originally posted by Chrisbox
    Why dont you all stop complaining until you ACTUALLY play 1.2? The pvp on the PTS is alot more balanced now.

    How many people actually has a level 50 (with gear even) on the PTS, reason why the past patches weren't properly tested (even devs said this) was due to lack of feedback which was due to lack of participating players. They need to implement character copy or instant 50.

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  • hikaru77hikaru77 buenos airesPosts: 1,035Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by sookster54

     




    Originally posted by Chrisbox

    Why dont you all stop complaining until you ACTUALLY play 1.2? The pvp on the PTS is alot more balanced now.






    How many people actually has a level 50 (with gear even) on the PTS, reason why the past patches weren't properly tested (even devs said this) was due to lack of feedback which was due to lack of participating players. They need to implement character copy or instant 50.

     

    LoL. They have a character copy on the 1.2 pts. Actually  the big guilds (with their toons geared) was copied in the pts to test the new endgame and pvp content. But i guess is more easy to ¨hate¨ than do some search. 

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member

    Since it would be a shame for a day to go by without Guild Wars 2 being mentioned, one thing they'll have, if needed (and already exists in GW1) are skills that are split for PvP and PvE... they'll behave differently in each area. It sounds like, from what I'm reading, that SWTOR might benefit from trying this approach. You can balance one without breaking the other this way and generally please a larger portion of your fan base.

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  • LoekiiLoekii China Hot Springs, AKPosts: 430Member

    Originally posted by Chrisbox

    Why dont you all stop complaining until you ACTUALLY play 1.2? The pvp on the PTS is alot more balanced now.

    Fans said similar things during pre-release about the release version of TOR, and despite not 'playing it first', the critisims were pretty accurate.

     

    Gamers are not inexperienced.   They have a sense of what works, and what does not.   So much like people in real life are able to make generally accurate assesments about how they may or may not enjoy something, without having to 'try it first', gamers are able to asses their potential enjoyment, simply by the description.

     

    It is not as if 1.2 fundamentally changes the way TOR works, and is so innovative, that todays experienced gamer has no points of reference to estimate how it will play.

     

     

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  • dubyahitedubyahite Lincoln, NEPosts: 2,483Member
    I would like to reiterate that these balancing changes aren't simply PvP focused.


    Sorc healing was so strong that you didn't need to take any other healers to Operations. It allowed your team to completely ignore mechanics in the raiding.

    The change to consumption/noble sacrifice is NOT a PvP change, yet it is probably the biggest nerf to Sorcs this time. The ability is rarely useful in PvP.

    Another major change was the fixing of an exploit where you could double dip on the effect of your procs.

    These balancing changes are meant to bring the healers more in line with each other. Now there is more incentive to bring one of the other healers with you.


    Make no mistake, this is not a case of a nerd because of PvP forum whiners. If you understand the mechanics of sorc healing and the endgame operations then you would know this.

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  • TimzillaTimzilla Ramona, CAPosts: 437Member

    but, but, how is the voice acting after 1.2?

  • Moaky07Moaky07 Flushing, MIPosts: 2,096Member

    Originally posted by minime2

    Originally posted by Elikal


    Originally posted by Painlezz

    Another prime example of why PvP needs to be REMOVED from MMO's...  Or at least ignored when it comes to game Balance.

     

    The PvP in this game is/was a joke from the beginning and it is beyond my understanding why they would bother to balance the game around it....

     

    Glad I quit months and months ago!

    Indeed. That is what angers me in every MMO of the last years. They had added figleaf PVP systems "just to have them", and then the nerf cycle for the PVP was endless, always souring the PVE experience. Games like Everquest didn't need no friggin PVP. Rift was the last MMO I saw constantly dragged down by PVP-centered nerfing. Horrible. If that starts, I am off. I don't want my PVE experience ruined for some handful PVP enthusiasts.

    Handful wake up pvp players were close to  1mill in . SWTOR  hardly a handful dont be so selfish game is not just about you lad .

    For 1.7M subs, and PVE servers far outnumbering PVP servers, I dont know how the hell you come up with that number.

    Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  • mikahrmikahr ZagrebPosts: 1,066Member

    1.2 is a /quit time for any serious PvPer

    Ilum is scrapped. No ETA. I dont it will happen before expansion.

    Saving grace were WZs which were fairly fun, and decently balanced, few classes needed some tweaks and some bug fixing. BUT BUT BUT You cant have that. Major game-changing class "balancing".

    The things they are doing in "balancing" are really amazing...in a bad sense.

    1. Buffing already OP class

    2. Not touching already OP class

    3. Nerfing already weak classes

    4. Killing 1 class (unless heal specced) - by their own words lol - spec heal or bust

    and in fact making WZs really imbalanced with standard FOTM flavor(s), specific group composition to dominate...in 2 words: sucky PvP

    They of course cannot test the changes because yesterday they managed to pop up total 2 WZs on test server due to lack of geared level 50ies. They gonna try to test it again today ROFL

     

    Yah, /quit and wait for GW2, Bioware dont seem to know what theyre doing, they seem so detached from the game that its...amazing.

    maybe ill be back....for expansion.

     

  • synnsynn killeen, TXPosts: 546Member

    Originally posted by mikahr

    1.2 is a /quit time for any serious PvPer

    lmao...what are serious pvpers doing in this game in the first place???

    Ilum is scrapped. No ETA. I dont it will happen before expansion.

    this is a good thing because llum needs to be redone. it was a failure from the start.

    The things they are doing in "balancing" are really amazing...in a bad sense.

    1. Buffing already OP class

    2. Not touching already OP class

    3. Nerfing already weak classes

    4. Killing 1 class (unless heal specced) - by their own words lol - spec heal or bust

     

     what classes are you talking about for number 1-3???? I'm guessing you're talking about the scoundrel/agent for number 4.

     

  • mikahrmikahr ZagrebPosts: 1,066Member

    Originally posted by synn

    Originally posted by mikahr

    1.2 is a /quit time for any serious PvPer

    lmao...what are serious pvpers doing in this game in the first place???

    Hoping that it would be at least SOME good PvP. guess it was waaaaaay too much

    Ilum is scrapped. No ETA. I dont it will happen before expansion.

    this is a good thing because llum needs to be redone. it was a failure from the start.

    Its good thing that Ilum was soooooo bad they had to scrape it entirely? Its a sad day when you claim "its good thing they scrapped it because it was so BAD.

    The things they are doing in "balancing" are really amazing...in a bad sense.

    1. Buffing already OP class

    2. Not touching already OP class

    3. Nerfing already weak classes

    4. Killing 1 class (unless heal specced) - by their own words lol - spec heal or bust

     what classes are you talking about for number 1-3???? I'm guessing you're talking about the scoundrel/agent for number 4.

    1. Marauder/sentinel

    2. Assassin/Shadow

    3.Sorcerer/Sage Merc/Commando Scoundrel/Operative DPS trees

    4. Scoundrel/Operative instead of fixing it they kill it, just like Ilum

     

    It really doesnt look well. Especially with ranked WZs on the horizon.

  • elockeelocke Manassas, VAPosts: 4,205Member Uncommon

    My question is...are they making these changes based on PVP play or PVE?  If it's PVP...well here we see the inherent problem of trying to balance an MMORPG that has both PVE and PVP, something suffers.  If it's PVE...they are definitely in the wrong, they should be redoing the entire enemy AI and how mobs react.  Ah well.

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  • TeknoBugTeknoBug Calgary, ABPosts: 2,156Member


    Originally posted by hikaru77

    Originally posted by sookster54
     


    Originally posted by Chrisbox
    Why dont you all stop complaining until you ACTUALLY play 1.2? The pvp on the PTS is alot more balanced now.


    How many people actually has a level 50 (with gear even) on the PTS, reason why the past patches weren't properly tested (even devs said this) was due to lack of feedback which was due to lack of participating players. They need to implement character copy or instant 50.
     


    LoL. They have a character copy on the 1.2 pts. Actually  the big guilds (with their toons geared) was copied in the pts to test the new endgame and pvp content. But i guess is more easy to ¨hate¨ than do some search. 


    Only on invited guilds from the guild summit, they're also paying some people to play on the PTS. They need an actual character copy so a larger playerbase can give a large feedback. Lack of active PTS test players is why toolbar change fiasco a few patches ago went through.

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  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,556Member Uncommon

    There's no reason PvP and PvE should be balanced together, just separate the mechanics.  One day a developer will separate the two (isn't GW2 doing this?).

     

    Haha at DPS Operatives poor guys have been nerfed with almost every patch and they aren't even doing dps worth a crap.

  • mikahrmikahr ZagrebPosts: 1,066Member

    Originally posted by elocke

    My question is...are they making these changes based on PVP play or PVE?  If it's PVP...well here we see the inherent problem of trying to balance an MMORPG that has both PVE and PVP, something suffers.  If it's PVE...they are definitely in the wrong, they should be redoing the entire enemy AI and how mobs react.  Ah well.

    Thats a 1mil dollar question because changes seem random and dont fit any particular pattern, or aimed at something - DPS classes with highest DPS getting buffs, classes with lowest DPS getting nerfs.

  • VandragoVandrago Parkersburg, WVPosts: 231Member

    Originally posted by eddieg50

    Nerfs happen cause developer does research and feels one or more classes are either over powered or under- Nothing strange or unusual there. People get upset because they are used to their character being over powered and want to keep it that way

    This

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  • YalexyYalexy BerlinPosts: 1,052Member Uncommon

    OK... as someone who has a LvL 50 full T2/T3 equipped Mercenary (heal), Assassin (tank) and a Sniper I went to the testserver to look at the stuff they're doing. And yes I've had my characters transfered to the PTS.

    Assassin tank didn't change at all. Sniper got some overall Crit reduced, which is ok, but...

    the Mercenary healer... OMG!

    Let me tell you. The Merc healer allready got some issues with heat in hardmode OPs, especially when it was about healing the group instead of only the tank. And you need to do massive AoE-healing in the OPs. That's the reason we go with two Sorc healers instead, especially as they don't run out of might currently with the right use of skills/rotations.
    Now on the PTS, the Merc healer has even more heat-issues and it'll be hard allready to heal hardmode FPs with the changes. The boni for the Kolto Missile got cut in half, Rapid Scan after using Healing Scan now costs 8 more heat, and Kolto Shell now coststs 16 more heat, aswell as Supercharged gas now only venting 8 instead of 16 heat.
    You run hot 1/3 faster with the new changes and you do 5-10% less healing due to the Kolto Residue changes.

    Seriously, the Merc healer totally lost it's capabilty of raid-healing and I allready farm DD-equip, as I'll change after 1.2 hits the live-server due to these changes.

    Marauders got even stronger with the current PTS-build as they now have two viable hard hitting talenttrees, while Operatives got nerfed even further. Juggernauts can't do 50/50 tank/DD specs anymore, due to re-arrangements of the talentrees, so they got the shaft aswell.

    It's sad to see, that this patch won't rebalance anything actually but instead imbalance the PvE even more.

    New hardmode raid-setup will be: 1 Assassin main-tank (still best tank overall due to 60% shield), 2 Sorc heals (only viable healer due to AoE-healing-capabilities), 1 Jugg offtank (mediocre tank/DPS, but 20% armor-debuff), 2 Marauders (high DPS and bloodthirst), 1 Sniper (good DPS and 20% armor-debuff), 1 Merc DD (good DPS and 20% armor-debuff).
    Everything else will not be optimal, especially with the goal to do the nightmare-modes for T4-equip.

  • ScypherothScypheroth P.A, SKPosts: 264Member

    WOW....this is mindblowing...ppl still play this game?

  • PuremallacePuremallace Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,856Member

    Originally posted by Vidir

    Originally posted by Chrisbox

    Why dont you all stop complaining until you ACTUALLY play 1.2? The pvp on the PTS is alot more balanced now.

     People are actually complaining about the pvp harming this game as it has dunn to all other games the past 10 years or so.

    Want to know why I think GW2 is screwed from day 1. Anyone quiting any 1 of several pve focused themeparks out say they are quiting because of pvp and going to GW2. Pvp'rs are the bane of develeopers existence in the genre right now. They ruin every single game they touch like a disease.

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member

    Originally posted by mikahr

    Originally posted by synn


    Originally posted by mikahr

    1.2 is a /quit time for any serious PvPer

    lmao...what are serious pvpers doing in this game in the first place???

    Hoping that it would be at least SOME good PvP. guess it was waaaaaay too much

    Ilum is scrapped. No ETA. I dont it will happen before expansion.

    this is a good thing because llum needs to be redone. it was a failure from the start.

    Its good thing that Ilum was soooooo bad they had to scrape it entirely? Its a sad day when you claim "its good thing they scrapped it because it was so BAD.

    The things they are doing in "balancing" are really amazing...in a bad sense.

    1. Buffing already OP class

    2. Not touching already OP class

    3. Nerfing already weak classes

    4. Killing 1 class (unless heal specced) - by their own words lol - spec heal or bust

     what classes are you talking about for number 1-3???? I'm guessing you're talking about the scoundrel/agent for number 4.

    1. Marauder/sentinel

    2. Assassin/Shadow

    3.Sorcerer/Sage Merc/Commando Scoundrel/Operative DPS trees

    4. Scoundrel/Operative instead of fixing it they kill it, just like Ilum

     

    It really doesnt look well. Especially with ranked WZs on the horizon.

    Granted I haven't been following the SWTOR forums in about a month (Has much changed since patch 1.1?) but I have never seen anyone claim that marauder/sentinel were op (or Assassin/Shadow for that matter).  All of the complaints I ever saw about op were Sorcerer/Mage being OP.

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by Puremallace

     

    Pvp'rs are the bane of develeopers existence in the genre right now. They ruin every single game they touch like a disease.

     

    That's because they bolt the PvP on at the end once they have made the game and try to fix it as they go along, breaking the PvE game thy made in the first place. I wish they would design them properly from the ground up.

  • DollMighty8313DollMighty8313 St. Cloud, MNPosts: 179Member

    Well it's obvious the OP things his Op[erative] is OP when he is doing Op[eration]s witch his guild.

  • mikahrmikahr ZagrebPosts: 1,066Member

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Originally posted by Puremallace

     

    Pvp'rs are the bane of develeopers existence in the genre right now. They ruin every single game they touch like a disease.

     

     

    That's because they bolt the PvP on at the end once they have made the game and try to fix it as they go along, breaking the PvE game thy made in the first place. I wish they would design them properly from the ground up.

    Thats pretty much the point. It seems Ilum was slapped on in day or two before launch (since nobody in beta has ever seen it ti seems).

    Mind boggling is that game is at a quite good place balance wise atm, no big interference needed (but still some twekas adjusements needed) and they decide to "balance the classes" imbalncing it totally in the process *shrug*

    Maybe they figure it out by the time expansion is out, but i for sure am not going to feed em 15$/month to juggle with the game for no apparent reason.

    *there are already skills that work differently in PvP and PvE, i wonder why dont they do that with more skills and not screw everyone

  • Cirn0Cirn0 MosCOWPosts: 162Member

    Oh, wow! People say sins are OP (coz of cloack of shadows, their only defensive CD) and sorcs/mercs are fine (totally balanced class with no weaknesses / magic missile spammer, btw their magic missile got nerfed by about 10% so people will have to do more than hit 1 button, oh dear its hard but I'm sure they'll manage), back to good ol' swtor forums full of trolls who play sorcs (and mercs). Also, ever tried not soloing with operative? Some people say they are awesome when they duo with other stealth or ranged class.


    Anyway patch is fine, actually it seems 1.2 is what the "release" of swtor should've looked like, but shEAt wanted to earn money AND have some free testing, greedy b...

    p.s. Ilum sucked, most boring sheep pen one can ever imagine, it was only good for imps who got tired of endless huttballs.

    IZI MODO?! Ha-ha-ha!

  • Coltaine00Coltaine00 Calgary, ABPosts: 52Member

    Originally posted by Vesper11

    Oh, wow! People say sins are OP (coz of cloack of shadows, their only defensive CD) and sorcs/mercs are fine (totally balanced class with no weaknesses / magic missile spammer, btw their magic missile got nerfed by about 10% so people will have to do more than hit 1 button, oh dear its hard but I'm sure they'll manage), back to good ol' swtor forums full of trolls who play sorcs (and mercs). Also, ever tried not soloing with operative? Some people say they are awesome when they duo with other stealth or ranged class.



    Anyway patch is fine, actually it seems 1.2 is what the "release" of swtor should've looked like, but shEAt wanted to earn money AND have some free testing, greedy b...

    p.s. Ilum sucked, most boring sheep pen one can ever imagine, it was only good for imps who got tired of endless huttballs.

    A geared Mara is already the best 1v1 class in the game.

  • TeknoBugTeknoBug Calgary, ABPosts: 2,156Member


    Originally posted by Yalexy
    OK... as someone who has a LvL 50 full T2/T3 equipped Mercenary (heal), Assassin (tank) and a Sniper I went to the testserver to look at the stuff they're doing. And yes I've had my characters transfered to the PTS.Assassin tank didn't change at all. Sniper got some overall Crit reduced, which is ok, but...the Mercenary healer... OMG!Let me tell you. The Merc healer allready got some issues with heat in hardmode OPs, especially when it was about healing the group instead of only the tank. And you need to do massive AoE-healing in the OPs. That's the reason we go with two Sorc healers instead, especially as they don't run out of might currently with the right use of skills/rotations.
    Now on the PTS, the Merc healer has even more heat-issues and it'll be hard allready to heal hardmode FPs with the changes. The boni for the Kolto Missile got cut in half, Rapid Scan after using Healing Scan now costs 8 more heat, and Kolto Shell now coststs 16 more heat, aswell as Supercharged gas now only venting 8 instead of 16 heat.
    You run hot 1/3 faster with the new changes and you do 5-10% less healing due to the Kolto Residue changes.Seriously, the Merc healer totally lost it's capabilty of raid-healing and I allready farm DD-equip, as I'll change after 1.2 hits the live-server due to these changes.Marauders got even stronger with the current PTS-build as they now have two viable hard hitting talenttrees, while Operatives got nerfed even further. Juggernauts can't do 50/50 tank/DD specs anymore, due to re-arrangements of the talentrees, so they got the shaft aswell.It's sad to see, that this patch won't rebalance anything actually but instead imbalance the PvE even more.New hardmode raid-setup will be: 1 Assassin main-tank (still best tank overall due to 60% shield), 2 Sorc heals (only viable healer due to AoE-healing-capabilities), 1 Jugg offtank (mediocre tank/DPS, but 20% armor-debuff), 2 Marauders (high DPS and bloodthirst), 1 Sniper (good DPS and 20% armor-debuff), 1 Merc DD (good DPS and 20% armor-debuff).
    Everything else will not be optimal, especially with the goal to do the nightmare-modes for T4-equip.

    ^ this pretty much, getting pigeonholed into specific class/roles to be able to get through stuff while other classes (or specific builds) get phased out. My 50 operative is a healer (has been since level 28) and healing can be a pain in the ass in certain HM/operations, now mercenaries will feel the pain operatives has been enduring, I'm not even sure if the healing buff operative got even helps.



    Originally posted by Scypheroth
    WOW....this is mindblowing...ppl still play this game?

    Not really, sub ran out on monday and I didn't renew. Honestly devs don't know wtf they're doing.

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