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Originally posted by Moaky07 Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
I think it's understood. You are a fan of the game. You don't like seeing people attacking it over and over.
But with the same approach that people use to express their opinions about this game, you attack them when it's different from yours. I don't think your points are any more or less valid then theirs. How many times have you made your opinions known regarding PVP and Sandbox games? And no one attacks you or your right to express them.
But what really irritated me was when you start throwing around "TOS" while in the same post, using foul language. Not that I have an issue with either one, and maybe it's just me, but I get the impression you are trying to use the "TOS" to your own benefit.
I dont go into other game forums, and proceed to bitch cause the game doesnt cater to me, nor my desire to see it fail. I have posted in both GW2 and AA forums recently, and many more in the past, and although I am not a fan of those games, I was respectful to those that do look forward to them. It is their "homecourt" so to speak.
Do I speak badly of sandbox/SWG fans....of course I paint them in a bad light, but I suggest you look at the other side for the first shots fired. Not only was my first MMO attacked by these folks(EQ) back in 05/06, but us themepark players are consistently being compared to pond scum, it is somehow our fault they dont have a game etc etc
Check the main brds for plenty of examples. Note: When I say EQ was attacked, I want you to picture someone taking the time to destroy game boxes of SOE games in stores. Rather immature behavour. Much like what has transpired here in this forum for several yrs now.
So of course I have had something to say over the years. The calls for more folks to die after Jeff Freeman passed was about the lowest I have ever seen out of the MMO community. Once again we know what camp they come from.
As far as foul language, and how it pertains to the TOS....they let us get away with it as long as a post isnt simply a sailor language tirade. Another reason I prefer private forums to corporate ones.
None of that matters though....the OP has flat out said he has an interest in seeing a game that some of us play fail, or at least perform very badly. Either scenario would be bad for those of us that do enjoy TOR. Rather than going about his business, I fully expect his ass to be planted here as long as possible in the remote chance he can help it happen. Which isnt discussion, it is simply hate mongoring.
The second I spend my time trying to get one of your games cancelled I want you to call me out as a hypocrit. Until such time, I will keep my soap box thank ye very much.
As some of you know it's because people who are unhappy with something in a game often complain and moan while most who are happy with the game won't bother to hit the forum, the amount of complaining is a consequence of a large player base.
TOR has some particular groups of unhappy people in addition to the usual mmo crowd, those that wanted SWG 2, those that think TOR killed SWG, some wanted TOR to be a sandbox, others feel TOR have too many things similar to WoW, and then we have the "hardcore" or people who play more than the average who says TOR have no content.
When all of them complain in concert then it may look like there's much negativity, especially when the ones enjoying the game don't post.
Originally posted by Sorrow Seriously? The reason is because it is Star Wars something with a zillion hardcore fans, most of who were totally disappointed and let down by pretty much every part of what should have been the most epic game we have ever played. You can't do Star Wars, half-assed and not expect this reaction.
Hey Bioware promissed us it would be the most EPIC mmorpg ever and its EPICNESS would be heard resounding throught the UNIVERSE.
They just forgot to tell us it it would the most EPIC QQ ever which would be heard throught the universe.
Bioware was the problem, they didn't and still don't understand mmorpgs. They thought they would make a game much like other games, with different abilities and some neat addition and that would be enough. (This is true for single player (limited multiplayer) games, because you just play them for a month or so). But mmorpg have to live and have reason to them, a ongoing goal.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Originally posted by Jetrpg Bioware was the problem, they didn't and still don't understand mmorpgs. They thought they would make a game much like other games, with different abilities and some neat addition and that would be enough. (This is true for single player (limited multiplayer) games, because you just play them for a month or so). But mmorpg have to live and have reason to them, a ongoing goal.
BW is known for telling a story. But in an MMO, players need to write their own story, an on going one that doesn't have an end.
BW could never pssoibly accomplish this. No one except the players themselves can...assuming the developer has created the tools to accomplish that.
I still dont understand why the games budget is such a sticking point. It was their money, they should be able to spend it however they want as long as they dont have an exorbitant pricing structure. Its not like this product was financed by tax payer money (Im looking at you electric cars).
Another thing i find funny, although I havent seen it since STO, is the lifetime membership offer. Has any game been successful using one of these.
Because the game is just not that good. Hype > TOR.
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
Originally posted by Shakes420 I still dont understand why the games budget is such a sticking point. It was their money, they should be able to spend it however they want as long as they dont have an exorbitant pricing structure. Its not like this product was financed by tax payer money (Im looking at you electric cars). Another thing i find funny, although I havent seen it since STO, is the lifetime membership offer. Has any game been successful using one of these.
Much much more was done with a lot less.
It amounts to a huge waste. And to be done with this particular IP no less.
There should be an outstanding MMORPG around this IP and all SW fans got was an "almost was" and a "never will be"
As far as lifetimes, I think STO exposed them for what they are. Greedy Cash grabs.
Even FunCom ins't touching that one.
People love to 'hate' anything that has the spotlight.
And SWTOR has the brightest one right now.
Marketing people love 'haters' though, just read the article in my sig.
Gdemami -Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Originally posted by jpnz People love to 'hate' anything that has the spotlight. And SWTOR has the brightest one right now. Marketing people love 'haters' though, just read the article in my sig.
Wait a minute....that guys name is JP...and your name starts with jp.......
actually it's a good read, thanks for sharing.
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Because they promised SWOTOR would change the genre. Because they told us this was going to be a great star wars game.
It is just WoW with a Star Wars reskin and a couple of extra features.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
People want SWTOR (or any new game for that matter) to be like it was when you know they had their first "girlfriend". Problem is that will never happen again, so people blame the lack of having that experience relived on game developers.
Its childish, just grow up and enjoy the games for what they are not for what you remember them to be like.
Originally posted by Moaky07 Originally posted by MindTrigger Originally posted by Moaky07 Cres that is fine and dandy to have an opinion. As you showed, there are several major issues to you. What I have an issue with is folks breaking the TOS on this site, and continually posting those reasons. The concerted effort to spread negativity is, quite frankly, childish. The TOR forum is pretty much dedicated to the so called "forum PVP", and if this shit was happening in the EVE or AA forums, folks would be losing their freaking minds. Like you said....you hope TOR drops immensely. Which is the difference between me n you. I dont feel the need to hope other games crash n burn. When it comes down to it, just cause I dont like something, I dont feel it gives me the right to wish problems for someone else. To each their own I guess. Good write up to explain your feelings just the same.
This website is about discussing MMOs, worts and all. We don't come here to blow sunshine up the developer's arses when it is underserved. If you don't want to read people's negative opinions, and you believe everyone is on some sort of vendetta, then perhaps MMO forums are not the right place for you to spend time.
I beg to differ....
It isnt "discussion"....it is the same shit different day from a number of the same posters. It actually is against the TOS of site, but for some reason it isnt enforced. Do gameplay discussions happen? Nope not really....they get bumped to the bottom of the page every time for the latest "Derrr we wanted the PRECIoUs" thread, or some flavor to that effect. Threads always turn into bitch session, and you can typically count on the same folks to chime in.
We get it....some of you dont like the game. Move the fuck on.
Instead the fans of TOR are forced to deal with you folks, and it is BS quite frankly. The fact you would even attempt to sugar coat what actually transpires doesnt surprise me, as being a "practicing SWG "vet" you are the epitome of what is annoying about dealing with the TOR forums. It was uncalled for when this same shit happened for EQ yrs ago, and it is now for TOR.
Like I said though, if this shit was happening in either the EVE or AA forums, the same folks here slinging shit would be going ape shit crazy. It is hard enough for MMOs without someone trying to drive away potential business.
So now Cres has come out and listed why he doesnt like TOR. I would expect a person to either walk away, or simply not make a daily habit of chiming in to flame the game. Like he stated though, he wants the game to do badly, so I guess he is going to continue flaming in the hopes it helps to make it a reality.
Who knows? Maybe you guys have a point, and rather than being concerned about TOR, I should spend my time spreading dirt about other games in their respective forums. Nah....I wont stoop to that level.
Fantastic! Well said.
I dunno, but I knew I wouldn't like it. So I didn't buy it. Then again, I don't buy anything that EA is involved with.
It is like a lousy imitation of justin bieber(wow). Normally people wouldnt mind, but darn it wears Star Wars skin. You have whole galaxy as playground but it still makes you feel caged in this game. A Next gen Star Wars MMO brings up massive- but MASSIVE scaled content, exploration in my mind. People hate because it has such a large budget but offers such poor experience compared to that. People hate this for a reason or 100.
The major debate comes from people who recognize there's a problem with what they promised the public and what they delivered not being the same thing and this difference between promise and end product is not being accepted by the fans of both SW and bioware. Countless hours of the interviews (videos and text mind you) at and after the cons demo-ing the tiny portion of the game they allowed the public to see combined with the very large amount of censoring this game received both before and after launch both in and out of their official forums, not to mention the occasional statements by the new director of finances (since the other one quit right after he gave everyone the 1.7mil "active" accounts schpeel has made this game the official model for what NOT to do to your adoring fans.
And before some idiot comes on here and tells me that they didn't give promises they didn't keep, just look at the combat.
I have the proof in videos and in screens and in interview text to backup how i know this is a bad pr nightmare instead of a honest product. The problem is people just don't want to listen to the facts, it explains why we have so many people on the street who can't answer geography or simple history questions. Facts are unpopular.
The other thing i find interesting is that not only did EA/BW censor the holy bejeezus out of their own forums but for a time somehow websites like these were censoring their forums as well. Can't help but wonder what this website would get out of censoring posts about what's really happening in the game and not what word of mouth(keyboard) has distorted.
If you like it fine, but you cannot deny without being factually wrong that the game was promised to change the genre and to not have the crappy combat model it has now.
I can't speak for everyone but i post about this problem not just because of how they treated the fans of SW but also because i'm dissappointed in how corporations like these are often supported by the communities they affect and no one seems to have an issue with it.
My main issues with it were that they had the gall to charge a monthly sub for a single player game, and then when confronted with players negative experiences the developers said things like "its their bad computers" and wrote off people giving negative reviews of the game as being some small imaginary force of people that never played their amazing game but just don't like them (it is even more hilarious how some of their fan base agrees with them on this part. Disgust on every single forum that discusses it, it is clearly a conspiracy by those internet hooligans that dislike the game for no reason!). On top of that they went far beyond tooting their own horn, calling it one of the greatest achievements in the history of gaming while they were advertising something that does not even resemble the game.
I also imagine many people have issues with the huge liberties it takes with the lore, with the lackluster pvp, the uninteresting skill trees, the abilities that are literally ripped right from other games, the poor performance with poor graphics, the poorly designed UI, the large install file made up mainly of voiceovers that we are skipping over anyways, the abundance of "kill 10 x" and "pick up 10 y" quests, the unbalanced classes, the poorly designed armor sets, the practically non-existant crafting system, the lack of a cross-server lfg, the linear progression, the continuing focus on repeating themepark ideas that have already been done to death in other games, the low population cap of the servers, the even lower number of players on the servers, and bioware and ea's continual covering up rather than addressing issues (my favorite was "high res textures are a bug and shouldn't exist!").
Most of all I bet people are disappointed that such a poor game has the Star Wars license, preventing any other, better game from using it.
Just to balance out all the negatives though, I should mention the one good thing they did. Their environmental art direction is really great!
Originally posted by itgrowls I have the proof in videos and in screens and in interview text to backup how i know this is a bad pr nightmare instead of a honest product. The problem is people just don't want to listen to the facts, it explains why we have so many people on the street who can't answer geography or simple history questions. Facts are unpopular.
Why not just post the link to them saying long ago that they were going to have action combat and be done with it?
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Originally posted by Baitness Most of all I bet people are disappointed that such a poor game has the Star Wars license, preventing any other, better game from using it.
This is the part that applies to me. I don't begrudge people their loving of SWTOR, but it just means that for at least 5 years, nobody will make a Star Wars MMO that I'd enjoy. This is unlike most other MMOs where you can genuinely say - and I have honestly suggested for others - "if you don't like it, play something else, as there are plenty of alternatives out there."
There is (and apparently due to Lucasarts licensing, there can only be) only ONE Star Wars MMO, and it is to very specific tastes. If you don't like it, there is no where else to go.
Originally posted by sidhaethe Originally posted by Baitness Most of all I bet people are disappointed that such a poor game has the Star Wars license, preventing any other, better game from using it.
There was another Star wars MMO available from 2003 until dec 2011. One that was aimed toward the otherside of the fence.
Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by sidhaethe Originally posted by Baitness Most of all I bet people are disappointed that such a poor game has the Star Wars license, preventing any other, better game from using it.
Why do you think there are only two ways to make an MMO? I happen to disagree, and take a third option.
Originally posted by superniceguy Originally posted by smh_alot @Creslin: While I agree with some points you make, I disagree with others. SWTOR DID do several new things or what hadn't been done in that way beforehand: companions, the way of crafting, cover system and most importantly the way it handled the questing process. Only those were often features and distinction that a number of MMO gamers don't really care about, so to them those distinctions don't count since they aren't about the features or direction that they're interested in. For the rest, I think it's all about expectations: strio all bias aside and dislikes for themepark MMO gameplay etc, and SWTOR ranks among the better themepark MMORPG's with its own good and bad points. It's ok. However, people expected something spectacular with the Bioware-Star Wars-big budget combination or to some after they themselves had a good time in SWG. From that point of view SWTOR how it turned out could only disappoint to them. I also disagree with the whole idea that some have that some games need to fail in order for other games, the kind they like, to be successful. I blame it on WoW that some MMO gamers have developed that kind of warped looking at things. Personally I think that several very different types of MMO's can be very successful next to eachother, and I hope that after this year is done, this point will be proven.
STO did companions before SWTOR, and I think STO does it better too
You get Bridge Officers which help you on your ship, and join you on away missions, and then you get Duty Officers which you send off on Missions, getting you XP and stuff.
dont talk about STO like THAT is a good game m8.....i played it for 15 minutes B4 i quit it out of boredom.......and that says alot from a guy who still enjoys swtor right?
Yeah yeah i hear ya....how can you know anything from 15 minutes on gameplay???? SWTOR got me from the moment the story starts (the yellow letters ) and still loving it.
It was the most expensive MMO ever released (and will probably hold that title for a long time) and it was hollow and buggy. Plus all of us who LOVE Star Wars are sick of getting awful 2nd generation Star Wars products. We wanted an improvement on SWG but what we got was Jar Jar Binks...
Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop. Subscription = Actual content updates!
To end this discussion I believe this Youtube shows what people felt Bioware gave them instead of a real star wars game..
I think this is painfully accurate how SwToR turned out to be for too many mmo and star wars fans.
people dislike swtor because it is a bad game. why do you think you can stop people from expressing their dislike.
your last comment " I should spend my time spreading dirt about other games in their respective forums. Nah....I wont stoop to that level."
suggests that you think that people post negative opinions about swtor out of spite or hate. people critisize things they dont like. why does it matter to you ?
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh Originally posted by Shakes420 The player base loves to say that the gaming companies are all about greed, but aren't we being just as selfish by wanting every game catered specifically for us (sand/theme, group/solo, etc).
I don't think this is really the case.
The only thing these games cater to is the companies who released them.
Most of us would be happy with a game that just delivers most of what it's supposed to.
And thats why developers are taking to Kickstarter to make the games they and the fans want to play and not marketing analysis and trends and the lowest common denominator and mass market appeal, developers are there to make games and they want take control back of their creative visions for these games instead of having a suit tell them how to make it or they dont get funded... screw em if it takes real gamers to fund games guess it will be that way...