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Would you like a hard open PVP mmorpg?

135

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  • bishboshbishbosh SydneyPosts: 388Member

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    Originally posted by Axehilt

    I prefer true hardcore PVP.

    Meaning you don't win by zerging or out-time-investing your opponents you win by actually being more skilled.

    Meaning the complete opposite of open PVP MMORPG.

    True hardcore PVP is an FPS game.  MMOs should be about open world and whatever injustices may or may not come with that.  "Fair" battlegrounds in MMOs are just cheap poorly done tab target garbage versions of a good FPS.

    I play FPS games for what you are asking for.  I play MMOs for the persistant world and the surprises it may offer.  Including a zerg heading my way.

    My opinion of course...

    feels awesome when you fight off a huge zerg with a smaller group. you dont get than in the battlegrounds of massively singleplayer gearfest rpgs.

    developers should design combat so that skilled organised smaller groups can take out unorganised unskilled zergs. most games just give hug advantage to the people who have the best gear.

  • googlemogooglemo New York, NYPosts: 19Member

    Originally posted by jusomdude

    Kinda funny, that OP is calling people carebears when he's against hardcore penalties for PKs.

    If you want to roam around killing whoever you please with no worries, there are plenty of FPS games around.

    You really have problems with eyes, I don't like repeating myself but whatever:

    PK SHOULD BE PUNISHED ALOT, BUT Blue players that got PKed should lose something too, otherwise its just stupid.

  • googlemogooglemo New York, NYPosts: 19Member

    Originally posted by Painlezz

    To answer the Title ...

     

    NO

     

    I would not like a "hard open PVP mmorpg"

     

    If I want good PVP I play HoN, LoL, Dota 2, CS, HL2, Quake, Quake 2, Quake 3... Modern Warfare...  and the list goes on.  If you want PVP you play REAL pvp games.  Not "I farmmed more points than you so I am stronger"

    If I want good PVP I play HoN, LoL, Dota 2, CS, HL2, Quake, Quake 2, Quake 3... Modern Warfare...

    Thats not hard, thats just *fun* without any pressure(played almost all of the games you mentioned).

  • PheerMeehPheerMeeh Lowell, MAPosts: 41Member

    Originally posted by Painlezz

    To answer the Title ...

     

    NO

     

    I would not like a "hard open PVP mmorpg"

     

    If I want good PVP I play HoN, LoL, Dota 2, CS, HL2, Quake, Quake 2, Quake 3... Modern Warfare...  and the list goes on.  If you want PVP you play REAL pvp games.  Not "I farmmed more points than you so I am stronger"

    why do you compare those games to an open world pvp mmorpg? In an open world pvp mmorpg, you get a sense of danger everytime you run around in the wilderness. You can ambush people and completely destroy them, then dry loot them.  Or get ambushed youself and get dry looted. Why do people automaticaly assume that an open world pvp mmorpg means the person that farmed more will be unbeatable? thats up to mechanics and if the game is skill-based or not. aka, thats up to balance. But for once just assume this "hard open pvp mmorpg" is actually well balanced and skill-based. Participating in small random battles or big 100+ vs 100+ with no lag. Would you still turn this away? If you do, then whatever. Stick to your 6v6, I'm not going to take that away from you.

  • jusomdudejusomdude Somewhere, KSPosts: 2,401Member

    Originally posted by googlemo

    Originally posted by jusomdude

    Kinda funny, that OP is calling people carebears when he's against hardcore penalties for PKs.

    If you want to roam around killing whoever you please with no worries, there are plenty of FPS games around.

    You really have problems with eyes, I don't like repeating myself but whatever:

    PK SHOULD BE PUNISHED ALOT, BUT Blue players that got PKed should lose something too, otherwise its just stupid.

    You were complaining about PKs and permadeath... PK should be penalized significantly more on death than someone they kill cause they wanted their loot.

     

    FFAPVP games with a simple slap on the wrist to PKers don't work. So something like permadeath if killed within a certain amount of time of a PK would make PKs really think twice before thinking the game is a glorified quake match. PKing would still be very possible, if the PKs were careful and played smart. PK with full loot is possibly one of the most rewarding activities... the risk should match the reward.

  • Moaky07Moaky07 Flushing, MIPosts: 2,096Member

    Would I want a hardcore wide open PVP game?

     

    No isnt a strong enough answer.....HELL NO is probably more appropriate.

     

    To each their own though, and I am sure some folks would enjoy it. Gaming encompasses many different styles, and no one said you have to enjoy all of them.

    Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  • googlemogooglemo New York, NYPosts: 19Member

    Well I agree on that, in this aspect Lineage is a perfect example, cause only PK can lose his loot(which is SO FKING HARD TO GET) but both PK and Blue loose XP from death(or skill if its sandbox, and a considerate amount), and in this way you have a point in PK someone, but also only a handful will risk like that.Originally posted by jusomdude

    Originally posted by googlemo


    Originally posted by jusomdude

    Kinda funny, that OP is calling people carebears when he's against hardcore penalties for PKs.

    If you want to roam around killing whoever you please with no worries, there are plenty of FPS games around.

    You really have problems with eyes, I don't like repeating myself but whatever:

    PK SHOULD BE PUNISHED ALOT, BUT Blue players that got PKed should lose something too, otherwise its just stupid.

    You were complaining about PKs and permadeath... PK should be penalized significantly more on death than someone they kill cause they wanted their loot.

     

    FFAPVP games with a simple slap on the wrist to PKers don't work. So something like permadeath if killed within a certain amount of time of a PK would make PKs really think twice before thinking the game is a glorified quake match. PKing would still be very possible, if the PKs were careful and played smart. PK with full loot is possibly one of the most rewarding activities... the risk should match the reward.

    Copypaste of my previous post on this topic:

    "Well I agree on that, in this aspect Lineage is a perfect example, cause only PK can lose his loot(which is SO FKING HARD TO GET) but both PK and Blue loose XP from death(or skill if its sandbox, and a considerate amount), and in this way you have a point in PK someone, but also only a handful will risk like that."

  • TROLL_HARDTROLL_HARD Caucasian/WhitePosts: 312Member

    Originally posted by Slapshot1188

    I would actually enjoy a permadeath game (I know there is Salem coming, not sure if I'll like the genre though).

    That would actually make folks think twice before mindless PKing.  Currently most FFA games have no real danger  to it.  If folks had to worry that their characters would actually DIE, they might be more well behaved instead of acting like roaming bands of psychotic killers.

     

     

    Frr the record I do realize that such a game would not be a commercial success... but it is one I would enjoy trying.

     

    Could you imagine the raging and tears if a game like Darkfall or Mortal Online had  perma-death? Reading that on the game forums would probably be as much fun as playing the actual games.

  • ElderRatElderRat Syracuse, NYPosts: 899Member

    Originally posted by googlemo

    Originally posted by Slapshot1188

    I would actually enjoy a permadeath game (I know there is Salem coming, not sure if I'll like the genre though).

    That would actually make folks think twice before mindless PKing.  Currently most FFA games have no real danger  to it.  If folks had to worry that their characters would actually DIE, they might be more well behaved instead of acting like roaming bands of psychotic killers.

     

     

    Frr the record I do realize that such a game would not be a commercial success... but it is one I would enjoy trying.

     

    hm... thats not a very good game, PK is a very good point of games you shouldn't abolish it just like that. In the genre that I concerned about you can PK anyone, and if you die you lose ALOT, for example your character 78lvl, to get your character from 78 to 79 you have to grind for about 100hours, and when someone kills you, you lose around 5% or 5 hours of your grind!

    Yes but you should accrue bad points for PK'ing - based on how much higher your level is vs the level of who you killed... and based on that flagged number you would get a harsher penalty when you(the PK'er dies). Of course it should be done fairly and killing a player of a higher level would erase some of the bad points, but even so Pk'ers should get harsher penalties.  My opinion.

    Currently bored with MMO's.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,998Member Uncommon

    I did play a hard, open PVP MMORPG, was called EVE. 

    A good balance of risk vs reward, and the ability for players to manage their level of risk.

    We need a few more games like it.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • xAtmosfearxAtmosfear Miami, FLPosts: 1Member

    I'd like a hardcore PVP game with FFA loot, but with a security system similar to EVE's.  I'd like the combat to center more around the economy of the game, with thieves taking advantage of trading routes to gank players. This would result in having the traders hire other people to protect them. Alll in all pretty much like EVE but in a medieval non-fantasy setting.

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,740Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by PheerMeeh

    I see where you're coming from, but what if you manage to beat that zerg or outplay that group that has higher stats and better gear in this open world FFA pvp MMORPG. Wouldn't that be more satisfying than playing a static 8v8, 16v16, etc.? Or do you just give up and bend over when you see a zerg or someone running around in full dragon because you got rolled the first time you and your buddies tried?

    The best PVP is an exciting match that goes back and forth.

    In a typical 16v16 game, good fights are rare enough.  If you add additional unbalancing factors like progression and population, you ensure a game basically never has good fights.

    Who plays a PVP game to not experience good fights?

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,740Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by bishbosh

    feels awesome when you fight off a huge zerg with a smaller group. you dont get than in the battlegrounds of massively singleplayer gearfest rpgs.

    Sure you do.  There's all sorts of times I fight off 5-20 players alone or with very little support in instanced PVP.

    And if Planetside 2 is anything like the original, you'll get even larger battles (great 50 vs. 150 holdouts.)  But unlike world PVP games, when you're outnumbered it's directly because of a decision you made.  If you were holding a base with 50, that meant that elsewhere on the same continent there were 150 allies probably beating back the remaining enemy force of 50 players.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • jusomdudejusomdude Somewhere, KSPosts: 2,401Member

    By your OP it seems you want all players to have fairly equal penalties, but then you say you want PKs to have much worse penalties... so which is it?

  • PheerMeehPheerMeeh Lowell, MAPosts: 41Member

    Originally posted by Axehilt

    Originally posted by PheerMeeh

    I see where you're coming from, but what if you manage to beat that zerg or outplay that group that has higher stats and better gear in this open world FFA pvp MMORPG. Wouldn't that be more satisfying than playing a static 8v8, 16v16, etc.? Or do you just give up and bend over when you see a zerg or someone running around in full dragon because you got rolled the first time you and your buddies tried?

    The best PVP is an exciting match that goes back and forth.

    In a typical 16v16 game, good fights are rare enough.  If you add additional unbalancing factors like progression and population, you ensure a game basically never has good fights.

    Who plays a PVP game to not experience good fights?

    You like to assume that an ffa open world mmorpg is automatically unbalanced because it has progression and population. Lets just say that it is completely balanced and skill-based here because we aren't talking about specific games.... and like I said before, you manage to beat the zerg or outplay a group of "high levels". ... hell, you even run into a random 4v4 and end up winning. Wouldn't that be just as satisfying or even more satisfying than winning in a standard 6v6 fps game or whatever? I mean, its nice to get a double kill once in a while in an fps, but what about getting a double kill in an ffa open world mmorpg? 

    Or wait, is that not possible because its an ffa open world mmorpg and you can never be good enough to attempt this? i've done my time in these ffa mmorpg's and YES at times there are ridiculous moments where u have like a 10% chance of winning, and sometimes you do end up winning those if you don't panic and run around in circles, but instead stay and fight properly... SOMETIMES. But there are also those encounters where both sides are equally balanced and whoever plays better wins. 

    I just don't understand why you automatically assume an open world mmorpg NEVER has any damn good/fair fights. you could even be put in a 2v4 and still win if you outplay them by using your terrain or superior tactics etc.

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member

    Originally posted by Axehilt

    Originally posted by bunnyhopper

    IB4 Axehilt crying about zergs... too late.

    It's not crying to demand a little gameplay integrity.  "I have more friends" is one of the shallowest forms of player competition around.

    "Gameplay integrity" are you kidding me? So integrity is demanding the mechanics from one genre be applied to a small section of another genre which is wholly unsuited for it now is it? Don't make me fucking laugh. You are in fact, just crying.

     

    It would be pretty shallow if something like EVE happened to be a lobby game in which you clicked "FIGHT" and subsequently loaded into a contained instance with 5 times as many players as some poor sod who has also just clicked "FIGHT".  Seeing how that though clearly isn't the case, at all, it is far from "shallow".

     

    Tell you what, it is "unfair" when my dumbass team mates get lost or killed leaving me to carry the fight in the FPS and MOBA games I play. For that reason any pvp that is not purely 1v1 all the time is a pile of uncompetitive, unskilled shite. Ergo, there is no integrity in team pvp games and I demand that all team games revert to 1v1 pvp in the name of competition.

     

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Greencastle, INPosts: 2,594Member Uncommon

    No thank you, One Mortal online is enough.

    image

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common

    Go ahead and have all the open world PvP you want, but call it hard... yeah right.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • googlemogooglemo New York, NYPosts: 19Member

    Originally posted by jusomdude

    By your OP it seems you want all players to have fairly equal penalties, but then you say you want PKs to have much worse penalties... so which is it?

    Please enlighten me, where did I say PK and BLue should have THE SAME penalties? Obviously PK should be punished more harshly, but when youre  PKed you should also lose something, it shouldn't be scot free!

  • VotanVotan Meriden, CTPosts: 291Member Uncommon

    In theory I would like one but in practice the problem is the community it attracks is just terrible.  So unless I could hand pick the server population I will pass.

  • finalreviewfinalreview Spring, TXPosts: 12Member

    To long to read it all, but if no one has mentioned Life is Feudal: UO/Darkfall/Shadowbane/Xsyon/Mount&Blade mixed together and more. Game is currently Pre-Alpha so don't judge the screenshots to harshly.

     

    Main Site:

    http://lifeisfeudal.com/

    Interactive FAQ Answered by Lead Dev:

    http://lifeisfeudal.com/community/forum.html?func=view&catid=3&id=3

    Sneak Peek Screenshot Thread:

    http://lifeisfeudal.com/community/forum.html?func=view&catid=3&id=1122

     

     

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Parma, OHPosts: 2,404Member

    Originally posted by googlemo

    All around us nowdays carebear games such as everquest, Runes of magic, Allods online, RIFT, aion, wow, even lineage 2 became like this with only difference in hard core grind.  So my question is this, would you like to play a game with hard open world PVP(such as lineage 2) with real risks on stake(if you're killed by another player you lose a considerate amount of XP or maybe some loot) but that game should also inspire pvp, for example for you to achieve better equipment or a better place for grind you will have no choice but to fight over it, cause only a small amount of people can have access to it? Also a game WITHOUT freaking instances!!!

    And once again, would you like to play such a difficult and challenging game?

     

    P.S. if you have some titles in mind write about them, but with as much information as possible.

    Nope, go play Darkfall.  It's almost exactly what you just described.

     

    The problem is that it's PvP focused.  A sandbox can have PvP in it, but if that's the main focus, it fails.  It's been proven time and time again.  So while I'm looking for something that is like what you've described, I'd like that game to pander to all playstyles.  Not just one.

  • googlemogooglemo New York, NYPosts: 19Member

    Originally posted by DAS1337

    Originally posted by googlemo

    All around us nowdays carebear games such as everquest, Runes of magic, Allods online, RIFT, aion, wow, even lineage 2 became like this with only difference in hard core grind.  So my question is this, would you like to play a game with hard open world PVP(such as lineage 2) with real risks on stake(if you're killed by another player you lose a considerate amount of XP or maybe some loot) but that game should also inspire pvp, for example for you to achieve better equipment or a better place for grind you will have no choice but to fight over it, cause only a small amount of people can have access to it? Also a game WITHOUT freaking instances!!!

    And once again, would you like to play such a difficult and challenging game?

     

    P.S. if you have some titles in mind write about them, but with as much information as possible.

    Nope, go play Darkfall.  It's almost exactly what you just described.

     

    The problem is that it's PvP focused.  A sandbox can have PvP in it, but if that's the main focus, it fails.  It's been proven time and time again.  So while I'm looking for something that is like what you've described, I'd like that game to pander to all playstyles.  Not just one.

    I didn't say that such a game PVP ONLY, there should be grinding, questing, farming, crafting, and PvP encouraged by other aspects as well!  DF is a good example, but the sad thing is that developers failed at finishing the game in time...

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member

    Originally posted by googlemo

    All around us nowdays carebear games such as everquest, Runes of magic, Allods online, RIFT, aion, wow, even lineage 2 became like this with only difference in hard core grind.  So my question is this, would you like to play a game with hard open world PVP(such as lineage 2) with real risks on stake(if you're killed by another player you lose a considerate amount of XP or maybe some loot) but that game should also inspire pvp, for example for you to achieve better equipment or a better place for grind you will have no choice but to fight over it, cause only a small amount of people can have access to it? Also a game WITHOUT freaking instances!!!

    And once again, would you like to play such a difficult and challenging game?

     

    P.S. if you have some titles in mind write about them, but with as much information as possible.

    open pvp + death penalties could work but not with some of the above imo!

    Instead of open pvp being at the top of the totem, it would have to be another part of the ecosystem.

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Parma, OHPosts: 2,404Member

    Originally posted by googlemo

    Originally posted by DAS1337


    Originally posted by googlemo

    All around us nowdays carebear games such as everquest, Runes of magic, Allods online, RIFT, aion, wow, even lineage 2 became like this with only difference in hard core grind.  So my question is this, would you like to play a game with hard open world PVP(such as lineage 2) with real risks on stake(if you're killed by another player you lose a considerate amount of XP or maybe some loot) but that game should also inspire pvp, for example for you to achieve better equipment or a better place for grind you will have no choice but to fight over it, cause only a small amount of people can have access to it? Also a game WITHOUT freaking instances!!!

    And once again, would you like to play such a difficult and challenging game?

     

    P.S. if you have some titles in mind write about them, but with as much information as possible.

    Nope, go play Darkfall.  It's almost exactly what you just described.

     

    The problem is that it's PvP focused.  A sandbox can have PvP in it, but if that's the main focus, it fails.  It's been proven time and time again.  So while I'm looking for something that is like what you've described, I'd like that game to pander to all playstyles.  Not just one.

    I didn't say that such a game PVP ONLY, there should be grinding, questing, farming, crafting, and PvP encouraged by other aspects as well!  DF is a good example, but the sad thing is that developers failed at finishing the game in time...

    The part that I believe you have wrong is the part where you'd want PvP to be encouraged.  To what degree?

     

    It's human nature to seek out conflict of some sort.  You can discourage PvP at every turn without hardcoding restrictions and people will still seek it out.  In order to have a large community base, you must not encourage PvP.  I'm not saying to remove all PvP aspects from the game, not by any means.  You can still have PvP arenas, guild wars, faction wars, territory control of resources and land, Naval and siege warfare, and similar mechanics within the game.  The idea is to not promote a focus on gankers and griefers.  In fact, you should focus on attempting to protect players who do not actively seek it out, but make it very accessible to players who do.  That's where I was going when saying that the game must cater to all playstyles to really have a strong chance at success.  I agree that mostly what you're looking for is realistic for a game.  In fact, thousands, if not millions have the same opinion.  It all comes down to the execution of features within your desired games.  That's where near every sandbox developer goes horribly wrong.

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