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Would you like a hard open PVP mmorpg?

245

Comments

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 , CAPosts: 2,447Member Uncommon

    The more you can loose (death penalty) doesn't make PvP more meaningful. If thats all these is to meaningful MMORPG PvP then I don't see any reason to participate in it.

  • googlemogooglemo New York, NYPosts: 19Member

    Originally posted by mmoguy43

    The more you can loose (death penalty) doesn't make PvP more meaningful. If thats all these is to meaningful MMORPG PvP then I don't see any reason to participate in it.

    if you read carefully you will see that I wrote:

    "...that game should also inspire pvp, for example for you to achieve better equipment or a better place for grind you will have no choice but to fight over it, cause only a small amount of people can have access to it..."

    the most important point of meaningful pvp is its necessity! Of course pvp should be balanced, fun and require skill to win but thats a given fact...

  • kilunkilun Apopka, FLPosts: 709Member Common

    Originally posted by mmoguy43

    The more you can loose (death penalty) doesn't make PvP more meaningful. If thats all these is to meaningful MMORPG PvP then I don't see any reason to participate in it.

     Point exactly.  What is the purpose of just roaming around like a psychotic killer like one above poster stated?  Many see absolutely zero point.

    This is coming from a guy who spent countless hours in Shadowbane, so I enjoy good PVP, but there was a reason for it.  Even roaming around to kill a guy had merit in the game.  Many of these new games the PVP is all about GRIND.  Shadowbane a day and you could hit cap.  It wasn't about that character, it was about the total game state and not your one meaningless character.  I spent about two months in perpetuum and I'll tell you what after rolling around for a few hours and not scoring a kill I'll go back to some BF3.  Then when I finally do battle and smoke some and get smoked some the only purpose is to go get my gear again?  Yeah forget that after a dozen or so times. 

    Planetside 2 looks like its going to improve on the initial game and hopefully be more akin and not insert BFRs.  PVP in an MMO has to be zone control based.  There is no other way around it and have the zones affect players in a positive/negative way on control.  The very small crowd only wants these crazed lose killers running around and are the vocal minority, the rest want a semi-balanced game with game state affected by what is controlled.  Oh and of course it needs to be not some bug infested garbage.

    www.ozumgames.com

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Mannish

    I think its just that a really good ffa pvp mmo has never been made. Darkfall and Mortal Online? Really?

    I think original Lineage was awesome at this.  The community policed rampant PKs, you could drop items, there was an xp penalty, and pvp was centered around resources and loot competition not just killing other players for the sake of it.

    Lineage was probably on of my most fun times in an MMO and that isn't just nostalgia.  I realize how the systems were implemented and the game mechanics were really well thought out.  Jake Song is an excellent game designer who thinks outside of the box and makes his own game world.

    With all that said, I don't have plans on playing another pvp game.  The whole mmo culture, especially the pvp culture, has changed a lot.  Now it seems to be about ranking and ganking.  I'm not interested in that.  The OP throwing around "carebear" for games that don't measure up to his pvp needs is a good example of that.  Is it really necessary to put other people down to make yourself feel better?  If that's what pvp is about for you then I'm not interested in spending my game time doing that.

    On top of that one thing about Lineage that got to be tiring is the constant loss if you did like to pvp.  Constantly having to gain back xp, refarming items, being in a war when you didn't feel like it and having to deal with the politics got very exhausting after a while.  I remember finally hitting this one xp point and then dying and just not having the interest in making back what I had lost.  I didn't log into the game again until the farewill month.  I do miss the game, but not a couple things like that.

  • googlemogooglemo New York, NYPosts: 19Member

    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    Originally posted by Mannish

    I think its just that a really good ffa pvp mmo has never been made. Darkfall and Mortal Online? Really?

    I think original Lineage was awesome at this.  The community policed rampant PKs, you could drop items, there was an xp penalty, and pvp was centered around resources and loot competition not just killing other players for the sake of it.

    Lineage was probably on of my most fun times in an MMO and that isn't just nostalgia.  I realize how the systems were implemented and the game mechanics were really well thought out.  Jake Song is an excellent game designer who thinks outside of the box and makes his own game world.

    With all that said, I don't have plans on playing another pvp game.  The whole mmo culture, especially the pvp culture, has changed a lot.  Now it seems to be about ranking and ganking.  I'm not interested in that.  The OP throwing around "carebear" for games that don't measure up to his pvp needs is a good example of that.  Is it really necessary to put other people down to make yourself feel better?  If that's what pvp is about for you then I'm not interested in spending my game time doing that.

    On top of that one thing about Lineage that got to be tiring is the constant loss if you did like to pvp.  Constantly having to gain back xp, refarming items, being in a war when you didn't feel like it and having to deal with the politics got very exhausting after a while.  I remember finally hitting this one xp point and then dying and just not having the interest in making back what I had lost.  I didn't log into the game again until the farewill month.  I do miss the game, but not a couple things like that.

    well basically the question is about playing a game like that. This is like real life if you want to own someone you have to work on it, and nowdays games don't even give you a chance to do so! Of course such a game can't be mainstream, not all people are champions and scientists, and yes I think people who would like such a game are champions when it comes to games.

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member

    OP if you have an mmorpg where the "development side" in terms of building up your character and clan/realm is based upon non combat character/group traits such as territory control, currency etc and all that can be lost. Whilst at the same time combat is determined by skill and/or tactics and social engineering...Then great.

     

    For instance a game in which character and stat progression are next to meaningless (or cosmetic), and combat is twitch based. Whilst at the same time the victors can control the land, create cities etc. Where you can forge alliances or hit and run groups on an open map. Great.

     

    If it is stat grind based then it tends to suffer, alas. And sadly such a game is unlikely.

     

     

    IB4 Axehilt crying about zergs... too late.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • Crunchy221Crunchy221 Trollsberg, ILPosts: 489Member

    Originally posted by googlemo

    darkfall is a nice example, but death in that game isn't much, loot is very easy to obtain, also PK have a really hard life there beacause of small amount of chaos stones, and the last point is that the game is dead, it has just enourmous world and so little people that plays there...

    So sadly this game is very close to mine description but is out of question, and the point is to understand, do people want to challenge themselfs in games?

     Actually its one of the best full loot systems ive played in.

    Most of the everyday useable items are not a big deal to aquire, your right here.  This is good however.  You typically wont get dry looted in DF due to this, and only lose items like enchant mats/resources/consumables/gold....typically a small price to pay while getting caught off guard.

    Hop into a seige, its another story.  People roll out the big guns here, a city you can bind to, with special resource nodes and bank close to possible great spawns is at stake.  You call in your friends to help and wear the best stuff you can make.

    Losing side to a seige leaves their good gear on the ground...its even possible to pick through the remains of a recently ended seige since the winners wont have the weight to carry it all back...

    Also, the world is dead in the starter areas, which is actually benefitial to players starting out since theres no griefing of them.  Its a world that feels open and vast and dead when your new, quickly you learn where everything is, where the hotspots are and where spawns are in relation to clan holding which could result in unwelcomed guests. It certainly doesnt feel dead in one of several clan alliances (most will welcome new players) with holdings, especially if you choose to hang out in a holding that gets raided every 15 min by nearby unfriendlies.

    Other than DF...i did like AoC's approach to no faction and FFA pvp everywhere, adding the pvp XP and pvp levels that make it worth your time to kill some members of an enemy guild when seen.

    I cant stand for the life of me the current 2 faction divided community...its so pointless when your opponent is some anyomous enemy faction player youve never talked to and never will...i prefer  " oh look that guy is a royal ass in chat and his guild was ganking noobies when i was on my alt...lets go get them"

  • googlemogooglemo New York, NYPosts: 19Member

    Originally posted by Crunchy221

    Originally posted by googlemo

    darkfall is a nice example, but death in that game isn't much, loot is very easy to obtain, also PK have a really hard life there beacause of small amount of chaos stones, and the last point is that the game is dead, it has just enourmous world and so little people that plays there...

    So sadly this game is very close to mine description but is out of question, and the point is to understand, do people want to challenge themselfs in games?

     Actually its one of the best full loot systems ive played in.

    Most of the everyday useable items are not a big deal to aquire, your right here.  This is good however.  You typically wont get dry looted in DF due to this, and only lose items like enchant mats/resources/consumables/gold....typically a small price to pay while getting caught off guard.

    Hop into a seige, its another story.  People roll out the big guns here, a city you can bind to, with special resource nodes and bank close to possible great spawns is at stake.  You call in your friends to help and wear the best stuff you can make.

    Losing side to a seige leaves their good gear on the ground...its even possible to pick through the remains of a recently ended seige since the winners wont have the weight to carry it all back...

    Also, the world is dead in the starter areas, which is actually benefitial to players starting out since theres no griefing of them.  Its a world that feels open and vast and dead when your new, quickly you learn where everything is, where the hotspots are and where spawns are in relation to clan holding which could result in unwelcomed guests. It certainly doesnt feel dead in one of several clan alliances (most will welcome new players) with holdings, especially if you choose to hang out in a holding that gets raided every 15 min by nearby unfriendlies.

    Other than DF...i did like AoC's approach to no faction and FFA pvp everywhere, adding the pvp XP and pvp levels that make it worth your time to kill some members of an enemy guild when seen.

    I cant stand for the life of me the current 2 faction divided community...its so pointless when your opponent is some anyomous enemy faction player youve never talked to and never will...i prefer  " oh look that guy is a royal ass in chat and his guild was ganking noobies when i was on my alt...lets go get them"

     

    Friend, don't take me the wrong way I played DF and it was a really nice time, but such big world require 10k online AT A TIME!!! today there isn't much life, I played at EU server few months ago, maybe in 2.0 people will flood in?!

    Also the question is would you like to play such a game?)


  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYPosts: 2,211Member

    Originally posted by bunnyhopper

    IB4 Axehilt crying about zergs... too late.

    You have made my life.

    /salute

  • PheerMeehPheerMeeh Lowell, MAPosts: 41Member

    i would love a hardcore open world pvp mmorpg. i've played both of the 2 that claim to be one and in some cases, they are. But  in most cases... they aren't, since in Darkfall, its not that hard to farm 50k+ gold quickly if you know what you are doing. And in Mortal, gear is like nothing and losing stats isn't a big deal since you can easily get them back up.

    They do both have ruthless ffa pvp because no one really gives a crap about you. they could just gank you because they hate your ugly elf. You could be mining and minding your own business as a newbie, and some maxed out dude could just tap you 4 times and you're dead. So in that way, it is hardcore... but at the same time its not because the pker doesn't receive any sort of real punishment for running around and mindlessly killing blues.

    BUT these games get +points from me for having ffa pvp in the evironment they have, especially when the games have a large population. I remember early days of darkfall where just stepping out to mine some ore made you paranoid because there were so many groups of pkers roaming around. The danger of being jumped at anytime is pretty cool.. at least for me it is. Also, Mortal Online was fun because I enjoyed the type of combat they had. That was it for Mortal really... lol.

    for me, a hardcore ffa pvp mmorpg would be one where players are actually scared to commit crimes such as ganking innocents or pickpocketing, etc. NOT the other way around where blues are paranoid because they dont want to be griefed/ganked and dry looted. So this way, when you see a red, you'd instantly know hes a badass because hes ready for all the damn consequences coming his way. Of course, blues should also feel some danger when they step into the wilderness and away from the walls and guards. An MMORPG with a good balance of fear for both sides. That to me is a hardcore ffa pvp mmorpg.

  • Crunchy221Crunchy221 Trollsberg, ILPosts: 489Member

    Originally posted by googlemo

    Originally posted by Crunchy221

    Originally posted by googlemo

    darkfall is a nice example, but death in that game isn't much, loot is very easy to obtain, also PK have a really hard life there beacause of small amount of chaos stones, and the last point is that the game is dead, it has just enourmous world and so little people that plays there...

    So sadly this game is very close to mine description but is out of question, and the point is to understand, do people want to challenge themselfs in games?

     Actually its one of the best full loot systems ive played in.

    Most of the everyday useable items are not a big deal to aquire, your right here.  This is good however.  You typically wont get dry looted in DF due to this, and only lose items like enchant mats/resources/consumables/gold....typically a small price to pay while getting caught off guard.

    Hop into a seige, its another story.  People roll out the big guns here, a city you can bind to, with special resource nodes and bank close to possible great spawns is at stake.  You call in your friends to help and wear the best stuff you can make.

    Losing side to a seige leaves their good gear on the ground...its even possible to pick through the remains of a recently ended seige since the winners wont have the weight to carry it all back...

    Also, the world is dead in the starter areas, which is actually benefitial to players starting out since theres no griefing of them.  Its a world that feels open and vast and dead when your new, quickly you learn where everything is, where the hotspots are and where spawns are in relation to clan holding which could result in unwelcomed guests. It certainly doesnt feel dead in one of several clan alliances (most will welcome new players) with holdings, especially if you choose to hang out in a holding that gets raided every 15 min by nearby unfriendlies.

    Other than DF...i did like AoC's approach to no faction and FFA pvp everywhere, adding the pvp XP and pvp levels that make it worth your time to kill some members of an enemy guild when seen.

    I cant stand for the life of me the current 2 faction divided community...its so pointless when your opponent is some anyomous enemy faction player youve never talked to and never will...i prefer  " oh look that guy is a royal ass in chat and his guild was ganking noobies when i was on my alt...lets go get them"

     

    Friend, don't take me the wrong way I played DF and it was a really nice time, but such big world require 10k online AT A TIME!!! today there isn't much life, I played at EU server few months ago, maybe in 2.0 people will flood in?!

    Also the question is would you like to play such a game?)

     Well your problem is the EU server...more EU players are ont he NA server now.  EU was always a dud server anyway.  I can see how you think the game is dead, you played on the dead server!

  • googlemogooglemo New York, NYPosts: 19Member

    Originally posted by PheerMeeh

    i would love a hardcore open world pvp mmorpg. i've played both of the 2 that claim to be one and in some cases, they are. But  in most cases... they aren't, since in Darkfall, its not that hard to farm 50k+ gold quickly if you know what you are doing. And in Mortal, gear is like nothing and losing stats isn't a big deal since you can easily get them back up.

    They do both have ruthless ffa pvp because no one really gives a crap about you. they could just gank you because they hate your ugly elf. You could be mining and minding your own business as a newbie, and some maxed out dude could just tap you 4 times and you're dead. So in that way, it is hardcore... but at the same time its not because the pker doesn't receive any sort of real punishment for running around and mindlessly killing blues.

    BUT these games get +points from me for having ffa pvp in the evironment they have, especially when the games have a large population. I remember early days of darkfall where just stepping out to mine some ore made you paranoid because there were so many groups of pkers roaming around. The danger of being jumped at anytime is pretty cool.. at least for me it is. Also, Mortal Online was fun because I enjoyed the type of combat they had. That was it for Mortal really... lol.

    for me, a hardcore ffa pvp mmorpg would be one where players are actually scared to commit crimes such as ganking innocents or pickpocketing, etc. NOT the other way around where blues are paranoid because they dont want to be griefed/ganked and dry looted. So this way, when you see a red, you'd instantly know hes a badass because hes ready for all the damn consequences coming his way. Of course, blues should also feel some danger when they step into the wilderness and away from the walls and guards. An MMORPG with a good balance of fear for both sides. That to me is a hardcore ffa pvp mmorpg.

    Well I agree on that, in this aspect Lineage is a perfect example, cause only PK can lose his loot(which is SO FKING HARD TO GET) but both PK and Blue loose XP from death(or skill if its sandbox, and a considerate amount), and in this way you have a point in PK someone, but also only a handful will risk like that.

  • CecropiaCecropia Posts: 3,472Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by bunnyhopper

    IB4 Axehilt crying about zergs... too late.

    LOL, gotta be quicker than that, bud ;)

    Don't worry, though. I'm sure you'll have plenty of more chances :)

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,753Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by bunnyhopper

    IB4 Axehilt crying about zergs... too late.

    It's not crying to demand a little gameplay integrity.  "I have more friends" is one of the shallowest forms of player competition around.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member

    Maybe you will like this, someone posted it, and it is all PvP, no real PvE.

     

    http://lifeisfeudal.com/

     

  • xDayxxDayx St Charles, MOPosts: 712Member
    My 2 favorite games are Mortal Online and Darkfall. I'm currently subbed to MO. So ...yes I do,like hard open pvp already.
  • PukeBucketPukeBucket Beaverton, ORPosts: 867Member


    Originally posted by Axehilt
    I prefer true hardcore PVP.
    Meaning you don't win by zerging or out-time-investing your opponents you win by actually being more skilled.
    Meaning the complete opposite of open PVP MMORPG.

    QQ

    Like in war and everything else numbers should win.

    I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.

  • ariestearieste toronto, ONPosts: 3,308Member Common

    Originally posted by googlemo

    All around us nowdays carebear games such as everquest, Runes of magic, Allods online, RIFT, aion, wow, even lineage 2 became like this with only difference in hard core grind.  So my question is this, would you like to play a game with hard open world PVP(such as lineage 2) with real risks on stake(if you're killed by another player you lose a considerate amount of XP or maybe some loot) but that game should also inspire pvp, for example for you to achieve better equipment or a better place for grind you will have no choice but to fight over it, cause only a small amount of people can have access to it? Also a game WITHOUT freaking instances!!!

    And once again, would you like to play such a difficult and challenging game?

     

    P.S. if you have some titles in mind write about them, but with as much information as possible.

    No, absolutely not.

     

    If i did, i would play EVE.

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2
    Currently Playing: EQ2, Firefall

  • username509username509 beverly hills, CAPosts: 635Member

    Already playing Mortal Online.. sorry.

    Never trust a screenshot or a youtube video without a version stamp!

  • jusomdudejusomdude Somewhere, KSPosts: 2,401Member

    Kinda funny, that OP is calling people carebears when he's against hardcore penalties for PKs.

    If you want to roam around killing whoever you please with no worries, there are plenty of FPS games around.

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by Axehilt


    Originally posted by bunnyhopper

    IB4 Axehilt crying about zergs... too late.

    It's not crying to demand a little gameplay integrity.  "I have more friends" is one of the shallowest forms of player competition around.

     

    I think going into a game and making enough friends to win a battle is a far deeper endeavour than pressing 1234 in the right order.
  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,753Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by PukeBucket

    QQ

    Like in war and everything else numbers should win.

    Most people want real competition, so we get games made for us all the time.

    If anyone's QQ'ing it's not those of us who get quality PVP games made for us.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • PheerMeehPheerMeeh Lowell, MAPosts: 41Member

    Originally posted by Axehilt

    Originally posted by PukeBucket

    QQ

    Like in war and everything else numbers should win.

    Most people want real competition, so we get games made for us all the time.

    If anyone's QQ'ing it's not those of us who get quality PVP games made for us.

    I see where you're coming from, but what if you manage to beat that zerg or outplay that group that has higher stats and better gear in this open world FFA pvp MMORPG. Wouldn't that be more satisfying than playing a static 8v8, 16v16, etc.? Or do you just give up and bend over when you see a zerg or someone running around in full dragon because you got rolled the first time you and your buddies tried?

  • gainesvilleggainesvilleg Gainesville, FLPosts: 1,053Member

    Originally posted by Axehilt

    I prefer true hardcore PVP.

    Meaning you don't win by zerging or out-time-investing your opponents you win by actually being more skilled.

    Meaning the complete opposite of open PVP MMORPG.

    True hardcore PVP is an FPS game.  MMOs should be about open world and whatever injustices may or may not come with that.  "Fair" battlegrounds in MMOs are just cheap poorly done tab target garbage versions of a good FPS.

    I play FPS games for what you are asking for.  I play MMOs for the persistant world and the surprises it may offer.  Including a zerg heading my way.

    My opinion of course...

    GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
    1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
    2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  • PainlezzPainlezz Laguna Hills, CAPosts: 620Member Uncommon

    To answer the Title ...

     

    NO

     

    I would not like a "hard open PVP mmorpg"

     

    If I want good PVP I play HoN, LoL, Dota 2, CS, HL2, Quake, Quake 2, Quake 3... Modern Warfare...  and the list goes on.  If you want PVP you play REAL pvp games.  Not "I farmmed more points than you so I am stronger"

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