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Bethesda to Announce Elder Scrolls MMO in May

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  • MorvMorv Royal Oak, MIPosts: 331Member

    Originally posted by uohaloran

    Think about this in a serious light, please.

    Take away just about every single gameplay mechanic from any Elder Scrolls game you've played.  They're not going to function hardly at all in an MMO setting.  Take any of their games and slap 100 players into and you're breaking the hell out of them -- let alone an MMO sized game.  The story?  Toss what little bit there is -- it doesn't make any sense in an MMO setting.

    Do you think that Bethesda and Zenimax is going to take a leap into this genre with a few ex-DAoC devs and make a sandbox title in completely uncharted Elder Scrolls territory?  I think you're crazy if you think they are.  I'd bank on a game being shaped to be more suited as WoW or a plethora of games like it.

    If they're going to do this, what we're going to be left with is basically the shell of what you know as Elder Scrolls.  They're either about to bend over their own IP or they're not doing an Elder Scrolls MMO.

    I just don't think what Bethesda has is anything special when you put it next to the contemporary titles in this genre.  What freedom has Bethesda given you that MMOs haven't been doing since the late 90s?

     


    Originally posted by Morv


     

    I experienced zero bugs in Fallout 3... I experienced 1 bug in Skyrim, 135 hours thus far... Maybe it's the console based versions that have problems? All these magazines and reviews talking about bugs in Skyrim or Bethesda games... Yet... I've hardly seen any?

    That's the boldest claim I've ever read.  Not denying what you're sayin', but damn...



    I'd show you, but... that's a long movie.

  • uohaloranuohaloran ., GAPosts: 811Member

     


    Originally posted by PukeBucket

     




    Originally posted by uohaloran

     

    Think about this in a serious light, please.

    Take away just about every single gameplay mechanic from any Elder Scrolls game you've played.  They're not going to function hardly at all in an MMO setting.  Take any of their games and slap 100 players into and you're breaking the hell out of them -- let alone an MMO sized game.  The story?  Toss what little bit there is -- it doesn't make any sense in an MMO setting.




     

    You know.. I actually had 100 NPCs spawned, 5 dragons, and a few dozen undead in Whiterun and there wasn't as much slow down as you would have expected. Not even on a great card, it is a 1 gig G405, and 4 gigs of ram, and basic dual core processor. Nothing sandy about it.

    So it wasn't that bad. The game pulled a lot of the texture on the models closer to where my vantage point was and in the distance the figures were duller / flatter, but they moved relatively fine. Clipping was a bigger issue.


     

    Well, yeah, you can render them.  I'm talking about the mechanics of the game and how it flows.  Their skill systems are open for incredible amounts of abuse.  Their games do not have an economy.  I mean, just about everything I can imagine would have to be scrapped and completely redone from the bottom up.

    I guess I just don't see the merit of them potentially stabbing their IP in the chest by getting their feet wet in this genre.  It just doesn't bring much to the table to start from apart from lore.

    Their engine isn't suited at all for what an MMO would require.  They'd have to undergo a massive transformation of it or just use a new engine.  Even though it's a rumor, we're still not entirely sure that it'd even be Bethesda developing it.  I just don't think they have the experience they'd need to do it anyway.

  • MorvMorv Royal Oak, MIPosts: 331Member

    Originally posted by PukeBucket

     




    Originally posted by uohaloran

     

    Think about this in a serious light, please.

    Take away just about every single gameplay mechanic from any Elder Scrolls game you've played.  They're not going to function hardly at all in an MMO setting.  Take any of their games and slap 100 players into and you're breaking the hell out of them -- let alone an MMO sized game.  The story?  Toss what little bit there is -- it doesn't make any sense in an MMO setting.




     

    You know.. I actually had 100 NPCs spawned, 5 dragons, and a few dozen undead in Whiterun and there wasn't as much slow down as you would have expected. Not even on a great card, it is a 1 gig G405, and 4 gigs of ram, and basic dual core processor. Nothing sandy about it.

    So it wasn't that bad. The game pulled a lot of the texture on the models closer to where my vantage point was and in the distance the figures were duller / flatter, but they moved relatively fine. Clipping was a bigger issue.



    I would like to add that the developers created Skyrim with mostly DirectX 9 code. They used a little of 11, but primarily 9, mostly because there was no reason to go higher or it just wasn't in Directx, but what is key is the detail of the graphics and the incredible 'lack' of demand on a GTX 570 video card... and by that I mean, with Witcher 2 running it would easily get up to 80C, I mean this card was going nuts, but with Skyrim maxed out, almost never over 70C.

    What it comes down to is the methodology they used to trick the player into thinking that the mountain they see in the distance is 3D, when, sure up close it is, but at a distance that's a 2D plane... not 3D. It's a trick, and well done too.

    Because they spent so much time honing and making sure the Video RAM demand is low, it's easy to spawn that much stuff in Whiterun without any problem... They designed and programmed it correctly! Something that is missing from so many games, it's painful to think about.

  • PukeBucketPukeBucket Beaverton, ORPosts: 867Member


    Originally posted by uohaloran
    Well, yeah, you can render them.  I'm talking about the mechanics of the game and how it flows.  Their skill systems are open for incredible amounts of abuse.  Their games do not have an economy.  I mean, just about everything I can imagine would have to be scrapped and completely redone from the bottom up.

    That's true, but I don't see a problem with that.

    If anything maybe they'll go to a less tank / mage type system like Daggerfall had. You could try and build it, but it was a lot harder than in Morrowind or Skyrim for certain.

    I suppose we'd just have to see.

    There's a chance there could be a MMO about existing in the world with others and not so much time focused on just progression.

    This would have to be a serious PVP game for me to be overly interested. But even if it was more like a lobby based / explore our cool dungeons with 2 or 3 other hero type deals (maybe I over heard something when I lived in DC a year or two ago)..

    I'd probably be more giddy just knowing there'd be an official mod that allowed multiplayer in one of their existing games.

    I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.

  • GTwanderGTwander San Diego, CAPosts: 6,035Member

    Well, it *could* be something far from Dagger-to-Skyrim... They have made Redguard (action) and TES:Travels games (isometric). It could very well be a cookie cutter RTS based in Tamriel, or something.

    If they are smart, they will realise their limitations and just pimp the TES name out on something generic, or really "out there" and unexpected (that hopefully works).

    Writer / Musician / Game Designer

    Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
    Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  • MorvMorv Royal Oak, MIPosts: 331Member

    Originally posted by uohaloran

     


    Originally posted by PukeBucket

     




    Originally posted by uohaloran

     

    Think about this in a serious light, please.

    Take away just about every single gameplay mechanic from any Elder Scrolls game you've played.  They're not going to function hardly at all in an MMO setting.  Take any of their games and slap 100 players into and you're breaking the hell out of them -- let alone an MMO sized game.  The story?  Toss what little bit there is -- it doesn't make any sense in an MMO setting.





     

    You know.. I actually had 100 NPCs spawned, 5 dragons, and a few dozen undead in Whiterun and there wasn't as much slow down as you would have expected. Not even on a great card, it is a 1 gig G405, and 4 gigs of ram, and basic dual core processor. Nothing sandy about it.

    So it wasn't that bad. The game pulled a lot of the texture on the models closer to where my vantage point was and in the distance the figures were duller / flatter, but they moved relatively fine. Clipping was a bigger issue.


     

    Well, yeah, you can render them.  I'm talking about the mechanics of the game and how it flows.  Their skill systems are open for incredible amounts of abuse.  Their games do not have an economy.  I mean, just about everything I can imagine would have to be scrapped and completely redone from the bottom up.

    I guess I just don't see the merit of them potentially stabbing their IP in the chest by getting their feet wet in this genre.  It just doesn't bring much to the table to start from apart from lore.

    Their engine isn't suited at all for what an MMO would require.  They'd have to undergo a massive transformation of it or just use a new engine.  Even though it's a rumor, we're still not entirely sure that it'd even be Bethesda developing it.  I just don't think they have the experience they'd need to do it anyway.



    They would never use the Creation Engine for an MMO, as you pointed out it would never work... They would write a new one as they did for Skyrim.

    In fact, they mentioned they will use the same engine for Skyrim on another game and then make a new one. Odds are they have already written the MMO Engine or are in the middle of it... We just don't know it yet!

  • darkhalf357xdarkhalf357x Brooklyn, NYPosts: 1,164Member Uncommon

    Not completely surprised. It was rumored they were working on an MMO.  Just didnt know if it was ES or FO IP.  Depends on how they execute, but potential to be signifigant.  Can easily see theme park as the intro (like in the ES games) then complete sandbox once "outside"

    If they can deliver the same realism provided on console to an online audience, I say kudos to the new direction on MMO.

    image
  • Asuran24Asuran24 St. pual, MNPosts: 517Member

    I see the class/skill systems being more of a option system where you can use a template class that gives you the basics of what you need for that class, but yet you can take that template and add or substatute other skills to make it unique to you. A template/class system with freedom of choosing your actual skills if you so desire, whiel using the slass/template merely  as a method to hekp players leanr or function well is not bad. I mean all professions/classes/templates have some skills they need to function correctly. Such as a mage or cleric needs to know how to cast spells, use certain items, info about their orders, and such as well as hwo to use thigns like weapons or armor that are common to them. Yet allowing the layer to take the priest template/class in the start of the game to get a handle for the game, then choosing to learn say swordsmenship and also to wear heavy armor, would make the character into a paladin style character.This kind of system though is already in the ES serie, and a established system in it for awhile now.

     

    If they allow npcs to be perma killed in game such as in towns, or such. Having the ability to add a npc with a new story, backgroound, and such as patches proceed along to give that feeling that the world is moving along, even to where npcs might die off in game without a player having to attck them, such as from age, monsters, ro such. This is also a good way of keeping the in a form that can feel like a living world as people die, leave cities, and new peole pop up. Also this allows the devs to populate the world with changing quests, as you  have these new spawned npcs stocked with different new quests that are diferent from what the other npc had. This is one part of the fact i hate about perma death is unless you have a way of respawning or populating the areas with new npcs, it wll seem like the world is actually dying, since even in the real world people move in and out alot to take places of those the disappeaar over time.

     

    The fact of names that are not rp=wise immersive or destructive to the play of other players in the game or lore of it. You can build into the characetr creation that invalidates names, such as those that have XXX before them or after, or have certain symbols in them as well. Although you could use a tag system to make a unique label for the players that is used for determining where mesages are sent, invites sent, and such while you allow players to use duplicate names to keep the universe more dynamic in that in a world like ours you will have peole with the same name. Although giving a toggle option to see either the tag, or the stardard name would be nice as well.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,455Member Uncommon

    "We'll see"

    Sorry but I'm a huge fan of the elderscroll series and this could so easily go south. So "we'll see".

     

  • SonicTHISonicTHI -Posts: 149Member

    Originally posted by Morv

    I experienced zero bugs in Fallout 3... I experienced 1 bug in Skyrim, 135 hours thus far... Maybe it's the console based versions that have problems? All these magazines and reviews talking about bugs in Skyrim or Bethesda games... Yet... I've hardly seen any?

    Well if the designers are capable of adapting it could be ok, but I'm not going to get excited about it.

    There s tons of bugs and performance issues in all gamebryo games - yes that includes Skyrim since the awesome creation engine is basically just gamebryo 1.2. No they did not write a new engine. That was just Todds PR BS.

    Most bugs go unnoticed like the one fixed by this mod (read under "why"): http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=4528

    In a SP game its not that big an issue. In an MMO something like that would wreck havoc.

     

    Not saying that they couldnt make a well polished MMO with a proper engine etc. but dont get your hopes up.

  • GoodAfternoonGoodAfternoon Aberdeen, NCPosts: 252Member

    It's gonna be a hell of a game. 

    Rift

  • EliandalEliandal Chelmsford, ONPosts: 796Member

      Unfortunately, this is something that should have been announced, and worked on, 5 years ago.  This is relatively new (as there is no such thing as secrecy in this industry)

     

      While I'd enjoy it, I don't feel like waiting the 3+ years development will take.

  • Skooma2Skooma2 Glenview, ILPosts: 694Member Uncommon

    ZeniMax is the MMO portion of the company.  It is a well-known secret that they have been working on an MMO over the last 3 years.  Perhaps the Fallout MMO, but, maybe ... just maybe ... it's the ES MMO.

    Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Parma, OHPosts: 2,404Member

    Originally posted by Nobadeeftw

    Originally posted by Mephster

    Please let it be a sandbox mmo. Tired of all the theme parks!

     

    Sandbox MMOs don't sell well in the US; so, it would more than likely be a cheezy themepark ride.

    EVE?

    UO?

    SWG?

     

    Other than EVE, there hasn't been a single sandbox MMO that was made well since UO and SWG.  This is a great opportunity to finally show all you sandbox haters that sandboxes are not as niche as you think.  Perhaps we will finally see the first AAA sandbox MMO.

  • greyed-outgreyed-out buttercupsville, OKPosts: 99Member

    Originally posted by Morv

    They would never use the Creation Engine for an MMO, as you pointed out it would never work... They would write a new one as they did for Skyrim.

    In fact, they mentioned they will use the same engine for Skyrim on another game and then make a new one. Odds are they have already written the MMO Engine or are in the middle of it... We just don't know it yet!

    But we do know; they chose the Hero Engine back in 2007: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16368

  • StizzledStizzled Springfield, MOPosts: 1,264Member Uncommon

    To those who are talking about it being anything close to a 'sandbox', whatever that means for you, your setting yourselves up for disappointment. Assuming this rumor is even true, I don't see why it would be a sandbox.

     

    Your not going to be changing the landscape in any way, I doubt you'll be able to build houses or guild keeps. If it's a full open world game they may allow the three factions to fight over and capture the towns, but that's probably as close to a sandbox as your going to get.

     

    If it's anything like the singleplayer games, which it should be if it's going to call itself Elder Scrolls, then your going to spend your time doing quests and running dungeons. Pretty much exactly what you do in any themepark. The quests might be different, the dungeons shorter/longer, but it's still going to be a themepark. Don't expect much more than that, an open-ended themepark with a free-form skill system, twitch combat and a first person view.


  • DAS1337DAS1337 Parma, OHPosts: 2,404Member

    Originally posted by PancakeEffct

    Better be in FPV otherwise I don't give a shit. 

    Unfortunately FPV MMO's aren't good.  By good, I mean successful. 

  • VaultarVaultar adelaidePosts: 339Member

    I am a fan of elderscrolls games. However, I will remain neutral about this just because both Bethesda and ZeniMax don't have experience in the mmorpg genre.

    Looking forward to EQL and EQN.

  • pacovpacov Saskatoon, SKPosts: 311Member

    My only real concern is the questing system..

    If they could implement something like DE from GW2, I would give it a chance

    If they will be text based/linear quests than screw this.. i don't wanna play a wow with first person pov, no matter what the ip is

    image
  • DAS1337DAS1337 Parma, OHPosts: 2,404Member

    Originally posted by Unreal024

    To those who are talking about it being anything close to a 'sandbox', whatever that means for you, your setting yourselves up for disappointment. Assuming this rumor is even true, I don't see why it would be a sandbox.

     

    Your not going to be changing the landscape in any way, I doubt you'll be able to build houses or guild keeps. If it's a full open world game they may allow the three factions to fight over and capture the towns, but that's probably as close to a sandbox as your going to get.

     

    If it's anything like the singleplayer games, which it should be if it's going to call itself Elder Scrolls, then your going to spend your time doing quests and running dungeons. Pretty much exactly what you do in any themepark. The quests might be different, the dungeons shorter/longer, but it's still going to be a themepark. Don't expect much more than that, an open-ended themepark with a free-form skill system, twitch combat and a first person view.

    How about a Sandbox with theme-park elements?  Why does it have to be your way?  Why can themeparks have sandbox elements, but sandboxes can't have themepark elements?

     

    Full PvP, Full Loot, Skill based, not class based, un-instanced open world, meaningful control of territory, meaningful player crafting, lack of epic loot, and so on.  Just because it may have quests, arena combat, and dungeons wouldn't mean it's no longer a sandbox.

     

    FPV and twitch combat works in single player games, but it doesn't in MMO's.  It wouldn't be a bad sacrifice to have TPV(which skyrim has) and tab-targetting combat with some freeform melee with non-targetted skills and abilities.  I personally can't stomach Oblivion because of the FPV.  I'm certainly not the only one that would be fine with that change.  MMO's and tab-targetting (Wow-style) combat simply work best.  You can keep everything else the same.  You'll have to rework the spells and skills in the MMO, but it's not like they didn't do that for Skyrim. 

     

    I don't see much of an issue here.

  • jinxxed0jinxxed0 columbia, SCPosts: 838Member

    Why would anyone think this is a good idea. The games are mediocre storywise and only shine because of the "do anything you want" gameplay (and mods if you're smart enough to play it on PC). If you have a bunch of people walking around doing whatever they want, that'd be a shitty and crowded game. I'm sure that wont be cause so then it'll be completely different from what makes TES great. It'll either be an obvious cash cow to idiots/super fans like SWTOR or it'll be a gankfest like DF or MO with every dork running around in heavy armor casting fire on everyone and killing all the NPCs. I'm sure it'll be the first one.

     

    If it's something different it's still not TES. May as well make an Arkham City MMO where everyones batman. Or how about a pac man MMO.

  • MorvMorv Royal Oak, MIPosts: 331Member

    Originally posted by SonicTHI

    Originally posted by Morv



    I experienced zero bugs in Fallout 3... I experienced 1 bug in Skyrim, 135 hours thus far... Maybe it's the console based versions that have problems? All these magazines and reviews talking about bugs in Skyrim or Bethesda games... Yet... I've hardly seen any?

    Well if the designers are capable of adapting it could be ok, but I'm not going to get excited about it.

    There s tons of bugs and performance issues in all gamebryo games - yes that includes Skyrim since the awesome creation engine is basically just gamebryo 1.2. No they did not write a new engine. That was just Todds PR BS.

    Most bugs go unnoticed like the one fixed by this mod (read under "why"): http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=4528

    In a SP game its not that big an issue. In an MMO something like that would wreck havoc.

     

    Not saying that they couldnt make a well polished MMO with a proper engine etc. but dont get your hopes up.



    lol, didn't they rewrite the rendering portion of it or was that guy making that up too? I would be curious to know what they actually did do with the gamebryo honestly, that stuff interests me, but I don't remember reading anywhere that it was mostly Gamebryo, but I wouldn't be surprised either.

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Parma, OHPosts: 2,404Member

    Originally posted by jinxxed0

    Why would anyone think this is a good idea. The games are mediocre storywise and only shine because of the "do anything you want" gameplay (and mods if you're smart enough to play it on PC). If you have a bunch of people walking around doing whatever they want, that'd be a shitty and crowded game. I'm sure that wont be cause so then it'll be completely different from what makes TES great. It'll either be an obvious cash cow to idiots/super fans like SWTOR or it'll be a gankfest like DF or MO with every dork running around in heavy armor casting fire on everyone and killing all the NPCs. I'm sure it'll be the first one.

     

    If it's something different it's still not TES. May as well make an Arkham City MMO where everyones batman. Or how about a pac man MMO.

    Or...

     

    They could actually try and balance skills and spells to support a multiplayer environment.  Which is something they would obviously try to do.  If people are going to look at this as Skyrim Online, where all features are exactly the same.  Then of course there are going to be game breaking issues.  Can we assume for a moment that they will actually attempt to be intelligent about how they will design the systems within a new TES MMO?

     

    Sheesh.  It can still be TES without the exact same systems. 

  • StizzledStizzled Springfield, MOPosts: 1,264Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DAS1337

    How about a Sandbox with theme-park elements?  Why does it have to be your way?  Why can themeparks have sandbox elements, but sandboxes can't have themepark elements?

     

    Full PvP, Full Loot, Skill based, not class based, un-instanced open world, meaningful control of territory, meaningful player crafting, lack of epic loot, and so on.  Just because it may have quests, arena combat, and dungeons wouldn't mean it's no longer a sandbox.

     

    FPV and twitch combat works in single player games, but it doesn't in MMO's.  It wouldn't be a bad sacrifice to have TPV(which skyrim has) and tab-targetting combat with some freeform melee with non-targetted skills and abilities.  I personally can't stomach Oblivion because of the FPV.  I'm certainly not the only one that would be fine with that change.  MMO's and tab-targetting (Wow-style) combat simply work best.  You can keep everything else the same.  You'll have to rework the spells and skills in the MMO, but it's not like they didn't do that for Skyrim. 

     

    I don't see much of an issue here.

    It doesn't have to be my way, and in all likelyhood it won't be exactly as I described it, I don't posess any knowledge that others don't. But, there is no indication that it will be a sandbox/themepark full of meaningful crafting, territory control, FFA PvP with full loot or any features that have become synonymous with sandbox. People just want those features to be in it, they hope that it might feature them because the singleplayer games have an open world and open character creation/progression.

     

    I'm just going off what exists in the singleplayer games and the current most popular MMO model, as that is most likely what they're going to be modeling the game after. I just have a feeling that it's going to be closer to WoW than UO. Assuming they don't gut the IP and take out everything that makes ES (FPV, classless, open world, etc.) then it will have some sandbox features, but it will still be a themepark.


  • DAS1337DAS1337 Parma, OHPosts: 2,404Member

    Originally posted by Unreal024

    Originally posted by DAS1337



    How about a Sandbox with theme-park elements?  Why does it have to be your way?  Why can themeparks have sandbox elements, but sandboxes can't have themepark elements?

     

    Full PvP, Full Loot, Skill based, not class based, un-instanced open world, meaningful control of territory, meaningful player crafting, lack of epic loot, and so on.  Just because it may have quests, arena combat, and dungeons wouldn't mean it's no longer a sandbox.

     

    FPV and twitch combat works in single player games, but it doesn't in MMO's.  It wouldn't be a bad sacrifice to have TPV(which skyrim has) and tab-targetting combat with some freeform melee with non-targetted skills and abilities.  I personally can't stomach Oblivion because of the FPV.  I'm certainly not the only one that would be fine with that change.  MMO's and tab-targetting (Wow-style) combat simply work best.  You can keep everything else the same.  You'll have to rework the spells and skills in the MMO, but it's not like they didn't do that for Skyrim. 

     

    I don't see much of an issue here.

    It doesn't have to be my way, and in all likelyhood it won't be exactly as I described it, I don't posess any knowledge that others don't. But, there is no indication that it will be a sandbox/themepark full of meaningful crafting, territory control, FFA PvP with full loot or any features that have become synonymous with sandbox. People just want those features to be in it, they hope that it might feature them because the singleplayer games have an open world and open character creation/progression.

     

    I'm just going off what exists in the singleplayer games and the current most popular MMO model, as that is most likely what they're going to be modeling the game after. I just have a feeling that it's going to be closer to WoW than UO. Assuming they don't gut the IP and take out everything that makes ES (FPV, classless, open world, etc.) then it will have some sandbox features, but it will still be a themepark.

    I think if you take the entire game as a whole and ask someone whether it's a sandbox or themepark oriented game, the answer is obvious.  So yes, indications would be that a MMO with the ES IP would gravitate closer to sandbox than themepark.  The opposite is nearly impossible to argue.

     

    It may end up being closer to WoW.  I personally don't have that opinion, but it's possible.  Though, again, you are confusing me with the FPV bit.  The first four games had FPV.  The last, Skyrim, had a very functional TPV.  So, by their design, ES isn't ES because of FPV.  And again, it can have some themepark features, but still be a sandbox.  You did it again.

     

    Neither one of us know how they are designing it.  In fact, neither one of us knows whether or not this article is even true.  We can wait and see.  I'm not about to attach 'fail' to it yet though.

This discussion has been closed.