It is b2p is actually a fine explanation, its only a one time purchase, in short term you spend more and in long term you spend less (theorically)
Except when you feel the urge to buy things in the cash shop to keep up with others or because other people have things you don't, cash shop is a mind game and it's worse than any sub, most people will spend more money on a game with a cash shop because it mentally tricks you into buying things one way or another.
You are not forced to pay a sub fee anyways, it is entirely your choice if the game loses it's value you just stop playing.
Besides, in GW2 you'll be paying for expansions anyways.
I also find $60 and $80 for digital downloads with very few perks quite a rip-off.
GW1 was also B2 and also had a cash shop. There were no real advantages to buying things, pretty much just fluff / cosmetic items. And when it comes to cash shops of any kind in any game, theres no tricking going on. Its not as if theyre using their telekinetic powers to reach into your wallet and pull out your credit card from across the world. Every time you make a purchase, its a decision you make based on wether or not you feel it is worth the cost. They tell you exactly what youre buying before you pay for it.. Its not hidden from you, or a lie. The whole "keeping up with the Jones's" thing is just evidence of someone being too dim to make a good rational decision and instead impulse buyng because they feel the need to fit in. If anyone has ever felt theyve been "tricked" into buying something in a cash shop, well id like to sell that person some magical beans.
As was explained to superdude, forced to pay and forced to play are 2 different things. You MUST pay to play. But you dont have to play if you choose not to.
You have to pay to get expansions in pretty much every game. Its not like thats new to B2P. (uhoh, sorry i said "have to". nevermind, according to some people its optional. theyll just give it to you without paying)
$60 has pretty much become the standard of any game (except for low-budget / indie games), including games that charge you monthly fees on top of paying that $60.
Actually what doesnt work is that once again youre arguing 2 completely different things. Did anyone ever say you are being forced to play a game? No. But yet you seem to have somehow interpreted it that way. What was said is that if you want to play, you are forced to pay. There is no arguing that, plain and simple, so give it up already. The only way you would be right is if there was no subscription. But there is, so youre wrong. Just deal with it. Its ok to be wrong on the internet. Youll get over it someday.
Ahh the bossy one aren't you? didn't know that you could dictate the terms of discussion now. By the way your opinions are just that an opinion.. and every opinion can be argued. You can keep repeating 'forced to pay' all the way to kingdom come but that doesn't mean it is a universal truth.
So deal with it?
So the fact that you have to pay a subscription to play WoW is just my personal opinion now? Well damn Blizzards has been making billions off of my "opinion" for awhile now. Great news everyone. You no longer have to pay to play WoW. You heard it here from Superdude. Cancel your subscriptions and remove your credit cards from their systems. Its ok, youll be able to keep logging in and keep playing.
Is it sinking in yet how utterly ridiculous every point of your argument is or do I need to keep going?
For someone who loves to berate others in arguments you surely have hard time reading yourself. To pay a sub for any MMO is not matter of opinion but to translate into 'forced to pay' surely is. That is where opiniosn differ. And yes you are right the more i keep talking with you the more ridiculous it gets.
Like ive said already, nobody said you are forced to PLAY. Thats the whole thing you keep trying to argue. Of course you dont have to play. But the only way to play, if that is what you want, is by making a required (aka forced) payment. Lets make it easier for you. Go grab a thesaurus, or use an online one. Then look up forced. Youll see the word required in there. Then go look at any subscription game and read the part where they say "subscription required".
Of course youll still turn around and say Im wrong, but hell why dont you go ahead and argue with every MMO company in the world, or better yet any subscription service of any kind, and tell them theyre all wrong and their subscriptions are not required for their services and they need to change it to "subscription optional". While youre at it, go ahead and tell your electric company, phone company, and ISP youre not going to pay them anymore but still going to use their services a smuch as you like, because your payment is optional.
If you still cant see where youre wrong, its pretty obvious youre a lost cause in oh so many ways.
The thing is i am not trying to prove you wrong just a simple thing really 'i do not agree with your opinion'. And if you think i am lost because i disaree with your constant patronizing then yes i am better as lost as i have been since days of EQ.
Also since you are comparing P2P models to B2P and then bring up electicity, internet phone etc..i actually do pay them monthly fee. And that is the worst analogy you can bring.
How exactly is it my opinion that you have to pay a subscription to play a subscription game, like WoW? Pretty sure thats a fact. You have yet to convince me otherwise, yet you keep insisting that its only my opinion that you have to pay that subscription.
And why would you pay them monthly? Youre not forced to right? According to your logic for several posts, having to pay for a service is just my opinion isnt it? You said it yourself, so why wouldnt you just tell them their opinion is wrong too and you dont have to pay to use your electricity?
It is b2p is actually a fine explanation, its only a one time purchase, in short term you spend more and in long term you spend less (theorically)
Except when you feel the urge to buy things in the cash shop to keep up with others or because other people have things you don't, cash shop is a mind game and it's worse than any sub, most people will spend more money on a game with a cash shop because it mentally tricks you into buying things one way or another.
You are not forced to pay a sub fee anyways, it is entirely your choice if the game loses it's value you just stop playing.
Besides, in GW2 you'll be paying for expansions anyways.
I also find $60 and $80 for digital downloads with very few perks quite a rip-off.
I think it is hilarious that people still try to infer that GW2's shop will be like an asian ftp mmo. Do you know how Gw1's shop worked? if you did, you would know that the above sentiment is wrong. If you dont, you are still wrong, since that is how GW2's shop will be like.
Also how is $60 a rip-off exactly? Since pretty much every mediocre console games costs $60? Not only that but allmost any new "AAA" mmo cost this much, and with those you only get 30 days to play it before you have to pay again.
Surely, if you just think that all the pricing in the games industry is a rip-off, you might be right. However, it seems ot to specifically point this criticism towards GW2's pricing, since its the same as with any other game. in fact, its actually better than the standard in the gams industry. So it is just rediculous to complain about GW2's pricing in particular.
Actually what doesnt work is that once again youre arguing 2 completely different things. Did anyone ever say you are being forced to play a game? No. But yet you seem to have somehow interpreted it that way. What was said is that if you want to play, you are forced to pay. There is no arguing that, plain and simple, so give it up already. The only way you would be right is if there was no subscription. But there is, so youre wrong. Just deal with it. Its ok to be wrong on the internet. Youll get over it someday.
Ahh the bossy one aren't you? didn't know that you could dictate the terms of discussion now. By the way your opinions are just that an opinion.. and every opinion can be argued. You can keep repeating 'forced to pay' all the way to kingdom come but that doesn't mean it is a universal truth.
So deal with it?
So the fact that you have to pay a subscription to play WoW is just my personal opinion now? Well damn Blizzards has been making billions off of my "opinion" for awhile now. Great news everyone. You no longer have to pay to play WoW. You heard it here from Superdude. Cancel your subscriptions and remove your credit cards from their systems. Its ok, youll be able to keep logging in and keep playing.
Is it sinking in yet how utterly ridiculous every point of your argument is or do I need to keep going?
For someone who loves to berate others in arguments you surely have hard time reading yourself. To pay a sub for any MMO is not matter of opinion but to translate into 'forced to pay' surely is. That is where opiniosn differ. And yes you are right the more i keep talking with you the more ridiculous it gets.
Like ive said already, nobody said you are forced to PLAY. Thats the whole thing you keep trying to argue. Of course you dont have to play. But the only way to play, if that is what you want, is by making a required (aka forced) payment. Lets make it easier for you. Go grab a thesaurus, or use an online one. Then look up forced. Youll see the word required in there. Then go look at any subscription game and read the part where they say "subscription required".
Of course youll still turn around and say Im wrong, but hell why dont you go ahead and argue with every MMO company in the world, or better yet any subscription service of any kind, and tell them theyre all wrong and their subscriptions are not required for their services and they need to change it to "subscription optional". While youre at it, go ahead and tell your electric company, phone company, and ISP youre not going to pay them anymore but still going to use their services a smuch as you like, because your payment is optional.
If you still cant see where youre wrong, its pretty obvious youre a lost cause in oh so many ways.
The thing is i am not trying to prove you wrong just a simple thing really 'i do not agree with your opinion'. And if you think i am lost because i disaree with your constant patronizing then yes i am better as lost as i have been since days of EQ.
Also since you are comparing P2P models to B2P and then bring up electicity, internet phone etc..i actually do pay them monthly fee. And that is the worst analogy you can bring.
How exactly is it my opinion that you have to pay a subscription to play a subscription game, like WoW? Pretty sure thats a fact. You have yet to convince me otherwise, yet you keep insisting that its only my opinion that you have to pay that subscription.
And why would you pay them monthly? Youre not forced to right? According to your logic for several posts, having to pay for a service is just my opinion isnt it? You said it yourself, so why wouldnt you just tell them their opinion is wrong too and you dont have to pay to use your electricity?
It is like beating around the bush with you. yes i have to pay a monthly fee for WOW that is not an opinion but a choice. But to say that 'i am being forced' to pay for WOW is your opinion not mine. it mus really bother you that we look at things differently. i can understand.
And comapring paying for electricity with a video game? really? by the way i never felt that i am forced into paying elecrticity bill.
This is Anet. They don't do anything that is not in the best interest of their customers. They should be giving those statues away to everyone who preorders. Then they should send one of those prints every month to each player who logs in that month.
Shocked!
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
If there is anything shocking here, its the fact that the prices arn't much, much higher for exvery edition. Since prety much any mediocre game has the same pricing, the fact that Anet is holding on to the same price eventhough it is offering much more quality is shocking indeed. Even more shocking is the fact that GW2 is b2p, yet has the same box prices as other mmos which are p2p. Its like, you buy one of those mmos and get a lifetime sub for FREE.
If you cant afford it, dont get it. I would have like the CE of TOR and GW2, but I cant afford em. I'll stick with the standard. It's not really a big deal. Wallet votes count a WHOLE lot more than forum votes in matters like these.
Yea, I would love an edition without the statue, but there isnt one right now, so I'm out of luck. Digital doesnt count because it doesnt have the art book and soundtrack that my wife would like.
Nope you were refering to gw2 fanbois' anything goes sentiment. The funny thing is, that you keep refering to it, yet it isn't there at all.
People read what they want to read. I am glad you were able to write one whole paragraph about one simple line i wrote. And yes call it an excuse or justification or whatever else you want to call it but being B2P makes a big difference.
Actually, I have seen multiple posts of you refering to this, no just in this thread either. I think it was the one about the exclusive skill? In which you pretty much said that GW2 fans will just about defend anything anet does. Nice tryin to make me look the one who is inferring things that arn't there.
Being B2P is an excuse for what? That the price is exactly the same as any other game? B2p is no excuse or justification, if anything at all, it shows how rediculously good the pricing is. The price is the same as mmos that are p2p, yet in this case it isnt b2p, which is better.
Nope it wasn't that topic, read again.
B2P is a good justification and excuse for the 150 price tag which if any other company was in question would be ripped to shreds by same people who have no problem paying for GW2 CE...that is what i meant. And you just agreed with me because it is infact B2P so it is better deal.
Whatever topic it was then.
But thats the point isn't it. Other companies DO IN FACT CHARGE THE SAME PRICE. The b2p doesn't justify the pricing, the fact that every other company does it does this already. it is how the industry has evolved, and if thats a problem with anyone, thats what their rage should be directed at. Besides that, a CE price can be doubled and people would still have no riht to complain, because of the fact is just that, a limited CE that offers no additional gameplay at all. It is not about the actual woth of the products that the CE involve that make people consider buying them, it is the worth they feel the products have for them. Therefore CE's are for huge fans who are COLLUECTORS OF EXCLUSIVE ITEMS. Whining about the pricing of CE's is rediculous because you can't really put a price on it to begin with.
So again, the B2p is no excuse nor a justification of the price, becasue the price never needed one to begin with. You infered that GW2 fans will excuse GW2's CE price because of b2p while they flame the b2p games that have the same price. I disagree, i think a lot of GW2 fans actually still think the CE price is way to high for their liking.
Some people say that the Rytlock statue is what drove the price up and to me that sounds credible. I know those statues can run upwards of $80 to $90 but a statue of Rytlock just isn't worth it to me. Especially since they already produced a charr plushie--it seems redundant.
Personally only the game, soundtrack, artbook and engraved case are worth anything from the CE bundle.
I just wish they would forgo statues and make something cheaper...like 2 redeemable tickets for GW2 teeshirts or something. The themed-USBs from Diablo 3 and Swtor are nice too.
There is probably a balance between the allotted finances, expected profit, and what the game should offer. It's not just about what a developer would like to see in a game.
Plus, ArenaNet is on its way to become a giant like Blizzard and BioWare. Once something becomes so big, it's easy to forget the roots and favor more profit over percieved "fairness" or "friendliness."
If the playerbase is willing to pay for it, and it doesn't significantly differ from other common practices in the industry in a negatiev way, from the business viewpoint it makes sense to do it.
I'm not saying any drastic change is going to happen within the GW franchise, but I'm curious where exactly ArenaNet will draw the line and which ideas/concepts they'll always insist upon, regardless of the involved profit and publisher's demands. I still believe ArenaNet's intent is bringing a good and fun game to play, not maximizing the profit on the players' expense, so the core ideology in will probably remain the same.
They've touted the BtP gaming model and the no forced grind philosophy (since the days of the good old "skill over time" motto), so I think they are probably going to stick with that, but for the rest they might (have to) chose whatever brings more money in.
Personally, I'd prefer the type of CE like there were for GW1, but it looks like that's out of fashion.
I'm not big on the figurines, but I'd like the OST, an artbook, and some purely visual perk in the game. I was pretty happy with the GW1 CEs.
(But since ATM I'm not even sure if I'll buy the game because of that broken armor thing, I guess this doesn't matter.)
I heard diamonds are expensive too..I mean like wtf?? Im a fan of diamonds,but are the miners like crazy? It's just a carbon...what a ripoff..
You know...it is a collectors edition..collectors..collectors edition is either a luxury version of ordinary or...you know...collectors pleasure..and collectors tend to spend lot of money for something very unimportant for others...You seriously CANT expect it to be cheap even if it's filled with Colin Johanson's ****
Just like the SWTOR collectors edition which is a gentle giant statue that everyone kept saying the same thing "the statue is worth 70-80 pounds on its own" and then it goes on ebay for 30-40 quid the whole collectors.
Cause well collectors arent the same anymore, I remember when collectors meant only about 50-100k were actually made, like Vanilla WoW which is so rare, you are only going to find an unopened one on the back of a small village shop that somehow sells games and still has one or two.
Like SWTOR collectors edition, GW2 Collectors will outlast demand, they will make a lot of them, and by the time the hype wears off they will be stacked at HMV for quarter of the price, just like Halo, CoD, Gears of War and WoW Cataclysm.
Lol I don't know the fact that in yer 2012 this is brand new to people. Its interesting to observe these responses because it's been this way for any CE and I notice very few people act brand new when this shit arises, b2p doesn't justify CE price, I know the fact that it cost 60 for standard then hell yea b2p makes more sense but for CE I don't even believe no one believe the fact that it b2p is why it should be a excuses but the sheer freaking fact we acting brand new is a tad bit more shocking and amusing than the price. Now thinking regardless in most MMOs you got people paying that and a extra 15 per month, it doesn't justify the price but you miswell be thankful they not charging a fee to just play the game ou won't have to worry about it. And again nothing justifies price but to act brand new and shit I be damn if I see a point in that. I'll just hope no one heard of other franchises because I guess every fan base has few who never seen CEs before or that price in their entire life. But let's keep on its entertaining to me tbh.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Just like the SWTOR collectors edition which is a gentle giant statue that everyone kept saying the same thing "the statue is worth 70-80 pounds on its own" and then it goes on ebay for 30-40 quid the whole collectors.
Cause well collectors arent the same anymore, I remember when collectors meant only about 50-100k were actually made, like Vanilla WoW which is so rare, you are only going to find an unopened one on the back of a small village shop that somehow sells games and still has one or two.
Like SWTOR collectors edition, GW2 Collectors will outlast demand, they will make a lot of them, and by the time the hype wears off they will be stacked at HMV for quarter of the price, just like Halo, CoD, Gears of War and WoW Cataclysm.
Collectors stuff needs to be a few years old before being worth anything.
Personally I don't care if they take a thousand bucks for CEs, the whole concept is for people who like junk anyways.
Ok, I collect swords myself, but stuff from computer games are too much. But I don't see what people complain about, anyone not interested in paying $150 for a CE ain't really collectors anyways and should like me just stay clear of all the junk.
And at least here they offer you to get all the ingame stuff for $80.
Just like the SWTOR collectors edition which is a gentle giant statue that everyone kept saying the same thing "the statue is worth 70-80 pounds on its own" and then it goes on ebay for 30-40 quid the whole collectors.
Cause well collectors arent the same anymore, I remember when collectors meant only about 50-100k were actually made, like Vanilla WoW which is so rare, you are only going to find an unopened one on the back of a small village shop that somehow sells games and still has one or two.
Like SWTOR collectors edition, GW2 Collectors will outlast demand, they will make a lot of them, and by the time the hype wears off they will be stacked at HMV for quarter of the price, just like Halo, CoD, Gears of War and WoW Cataclysm.
Collectors stuff needs to be a few years old before being worth anything.
Personally I don't care if they take a thousand bucks for CEs, the whole concept is for people who like junk anyways.
Ok, I collect swords myself, but stuff from computer games are too much. But I don't see what people complain about, anyone not interested in paying $150 for a CE ain't really collectors anyways and should like me just stay clear of all the junk.
And at least here they offer you to get all the ingame stuff for $80.
Its not just the fact that it needs a few years, it also needs to be rare, that is what makes something expensive and a collectors item, when you mass produce collectors edition that its sitting on every game retailer warehouse for 2 -3 years and its being sold at a quarter of the price it can never truly reach collector status. It will never be worth 5k like a vanilla WoW collectors which only 50k or whatever were actually printed.
Some people say that the Rytlock statue is what drove the price up and to me that sounds credible. I know those statues can run upwards of $80 to $90 but a statue of Rytlock just isn't worth it to me. Especially since they already produced a charr plushie--it seems redundant.
Personally only the game, soundtrack, artbook and engraved case are worth anything from the CE bundle.
I just wish they would forgo statues and make something cheaper...like 2 redeemable tickets for GW2 teeshirts or something. The themed-USBs from Diablo 3 and Swtor are nice too.
I agree. I would consider the CE if there was a little choice in what content was actually in it, most specifically the statue. It would have been nice if they had added the soundtrack to the deluxe addition to make that a bit more appealing too.
Regardless of any of that, it is nice that they have a few different choices in your level of "box" edition.
They have to make the big launch sales to make the big money for their investors. That is the only thing that matters with any AAA game company today.
I don't think CE is worth $150 because of some statue...Really? Who cares about useless crap! And who is even pre-ordering. Games are to easy to level up in to worry about the headstart or even waiting a week to see what it is like.
It is like beating around the bush with you. yes i have to pay a monthly fee for WOW that is not an opinion but a choice. But to say that 'i am being forced' to pay for WOW is your opinion not mine. it mus really bother you that we look at things differently. i can understand.
And comapring paying for electricity with a video game? really? by the way i never felt that i am forced into paying elecrticity bill.
My god youre amusing. In 1 sentence you say you know you have to pay for WoW, then in the next you tell me the fact that you have to pay for WoW is my opinion. Ive tried many times to dumb it down for you. You still dont seem to grasp the difference between the words PAY and PLAY. Learn to read those 2 words properly and you might have a leg to stand on.
And please dont enhance your foolishness by complaining about me comparing something to a video game. Its the exact same circumstances. You are getting a service. In order to receive it, you have to pay for it. BTW, your "feeling" that you arent forced to pay your electric, is an opinion. Fellings are opinions. That whole thing where you have to (aka are forced to) pay your electric bill in order to use your electricity, is a fact. Can you comprehend that much?
Before you start going off again, simmer down and read what was said. I did not say "you are forced to use your electricity". I said you are forced to pay it in order to use it. Using it (just like playing a game) is a choice, having to pay for your electricity to use it (just like paying a game subscription in order to play it) is not. If paying it was a choice, everyone would be playing WoW for free and getting free electric.
Its very very very very simple. Simple enough that even someone bordering on being deemed legally retarded could probably understand it. Even attempting to argue differently is just a practice in further improving the stupidity found throughout this thread.
The price fits the content, so shocked isn't quite the right word. I would have very much prefered a CE without a pointless statue so that it costs less than 100 bucks, but I'm not going to get one, so it's going to be the standard box for me.
Umm, yeah... yeah you are.
They have 3 editions.
Standard
Deluxe
Collectors.
The difference from deluxe to collectors are the statues, art books, music CDs, etc... If you don't want those, go with deluxe. That is a CE without the pointless statue, etc.
Personally I want the statue and the CDs, although I am kind of meh about the art book... so I am getting the CE.
It is like beating around the bush with you. yes i have to pay a monthly fee for WOW that is not an opinion but a choice. But to say that 'i am being forced' to pay for WOW is your opinion not mine. it mus really bother you that we look at things differently. i can understand.
And comapring paying for electricity with a video game? really? by the way i never felt that i am forced into paying elecrticity bill.
My god youre amusing. In 1 sentence you say you know you have to pay for WoW, then in the next you tell me the fact that you have to pay for WoW is my opinion. Ive tried many times to dumb it down for you. You still dont seem to grasp the difference between the words PAY and PLAY. Learn to read those 2 words properly and you might have a leg to stand on.
And please dont enhance your foolishness by complaining about me comparing something to a video game. Its the exact same circumstances. You are getting a service. In order to receive it, you have to pay for it. BTW, your "feeling" that you arent forced to pay your electric, is an opinion. Fellings are opinions. That whole thing where you have to (aka are forced to) pay your electric bill in order to use your electricity, is a fact. Can you comprehend that much?
Before you start going off again, simmer down and read what was said. I did not say "you are forced to use your electricity". I said you are forced to pay it in order to use it. Using it (just like playing a game) is a choice, having to pay for your electricity to use it (just like paying a game subscription in order to play it) is not. If paying it was a choice, everyone would be playing WoW for free and getting free electric.
Its very very very very simple. Simple enough that even someone bordering on being deemed legally retarded could probably understand it. Even attempting to argue differently is just a practice in further improving the stupidity found throughout this thread.
It is like beating around the bush with you. yes i have to pay a monthly fee for WOW that is not an opinion but a choice. But to say that 'i am being forced' to pay for WOW is your opinion not mine. it mus really bother you that we look at things differently. i can understand.
And comapring paying for electricity with a video game? really? by the way i never felt that i am forced into paying elecrticity bill.
My god youre amusing. In 1 sentence you say you know you have to pay for WoW, then in the next you tell me the fact that you have to pay for WoW is my opinion. Ive tried many times to dumb it down for you. You still dont seem to grasp the difference between the words PAY and PLAY. Learn to read those 2 words properly and you might have a leg to stand on.
And please dont enhance your foolishness by complaining about me comparing something to a video game. Its the exact same circumstances. You are getting a service. In order to receive it, you have to pay for it. BTW, your "feeling" that you arent forced to pay your electric, is an opinion. Fellings are opinions. That whole thing where you have to (aka are forced to) pay your electric bill in order to use your electricity, is a fact. Can you comprehend that much?
Before you start going off again, simmer down and read what was said. I did not say "you are forced to use your electricity". I said you are forced to pay it in order to use it. Using it (just like playing a game) is a choice, having to pay for your electricity to use it (just like paying a game subscription in order to play it) is not. If paying it was a choice, everyone would be playing WoW for free and getting free electric.
Its very very very very simple. Simple enough that even someone bordering on being deemed legally retarded could probably understand it. Even attempting to argue differently is just a practice in further improving the stupidity found throughout this thread.
Meh inflation of physical product probably has a factor to do with it. Digital media has been dodging the curse of inflation for years now, but it doesn't mean it has stopped.
And as others have said, its just the CE edition. My bro enjoys that crap so hes getting it, and I'm getting the standard. Both of us are happy.
It is like beating around the bush with you. yes i have to pay a monthly fee for WOW that is not an opinion but a choice. But to say that 'i am being forced' to pay for WOW is your opinion not mine. it mus really bother you that we look at things differently. i can understand.
And comapring paying for electricity with a video game? really? by the way i never felt that i am forced into paying elecrticity bill.
My god youre amusing. In 1 sentence you say you know you have to pay for WoW, then in the next you tell me the fact that you have to pay for WoW is my opinion. Ive tried many times to dumb it down for you. You still dont seem to grasp the difference between the words PAY and PLAY. Learn to read those 2 words properly and you might have a leg to stand on.
And please dont enhance your foolishness by complaining about me comparing something to a video game. Its the exact same circumstances. You are getting a service. In order to receive it, you have to pay for it. BTW, your "feeling" that you arent forced to pay your electric, is an opinion. Fellings are opinions. That whole thing where you have to (aka are forced to) pay your electric bill in order to use your electricity, is a fact. Can you comprehend that much?
Before you start going off again, simmer down and read what was said. I did not say "you are forced to use your electricity". I said you are forced to pay it in order to use it. Using it (just like playing a game) is a choice, having to pay for your electricity to use it (just like paying a game subscription in order to play it) is not. If paying it was a choice, everyone would be playing WoW for free and getting free electric.
Its very very very very simple. Simple enough that even someone bordering on being deemed legally retarded could probably understand it. Even attempting to argue differently is just a practice in further improving the stupidity found throughout this thread.
I am a long time WOW player and i have been paying sub for over 6 years now. I think you are confusing the need to pay for enjoying a videogame as something you are forced to do. isn't that what yout wo have been arguing about for all this time? only because for example say i chose to pay for a MMO doesn't automatically means i am forced to do so. So yes he is right. Paying for a game is not an opinion it is a necessity but to say that you are beign forced to do so is matetr of opinion and prespective.
Why is it so hard to understand such a simple concept? can't believe you two have been arguing about something so simple. Also i would like to advice you to stop insulting others in every post you make, i went through a lot of posts in here and i am surprised that you got away with all the insultig and name calling. People differ on opinions all the time it doesn't make them retarded or stupid just people who think differently about a particular issue.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
It is like beating around the bush with you. yes i have to pay a monthly fee for WOW that is not an opinion but a choice. But to say that 'i am being forced' to pay for WOW is your opinion not mine. it mus really bother you that we look at things differently. i can understand.
And comapring paying for electricity with a video game? really? by the way i never felt that i am forced into paying elecrticity bill.
My god youre amusing. In 1 sentence you say you know you have to pay for WoW, then in the next you tell me the fact that you have to pay for WoW is my opinion. Ive tried many times to dumb it down for you. You still dont seem to grasp the difference between the words PAY and PLAY. Learn to read those 2 words properly and you might have a leg to stand on.
And please dont enhance your foolishness by complaining about me comparing something to a video game. Its the exact same circumstances. You are getting a service. In order to receive it, you have to pay for it. BTW, your "feeling" that you arent forced to pay your electric, is an opinion. Fellings are opinions. That whole thing where you have to (aka are forced to) pay your electric bill in order to use your electricity, is a fact. Can you comprehend that much?
Before you start going off again, simmer down and read what was said. I did not say "you are forced to use your electricity". I said you are forced to pay it in order to use it. Using it (just like playing a game) is a choice, having to pay for your electricity to use it (just like paying a game subscription in order to play it) is not. If paying it was a choice, everyone would be playing WoW for free and getting free electric.
Its very very very very simple. Simple enough that even someone bordering on being deemed legally retarded could probably understand it. Even attempting to argue differently is just a practice in further improving the stupidity found throughout this thread.
I am a long time WOW player and i have been paying sub for over 6 years now. I think you are confusing the need to pay for enjoying a videogame as something you are forced to do. isn't that what yout wo have been arguing about for all this time? only because for example say i chose to pay for a MMO doesn't automatically means i am forced to do so. So yes he is right. Paying for a game is not an opinion it is a necessity but to say that you are beign forced to do so is matetr of opinion and prespective.
Why is it so hard to understand such a simple concept? can't believe you two have been arguing about something so simple. Also i would like to advice you to stop insulting others in every post you make, i went through a lot of posts in here and i am surprised that you got away with all the insultig and name calling. People differ on opinions all the time it doesn't make them retarded or stupid just people who think differently about a particular issue.
Wrong.
If you want to play a subscription game with monthly fees, or subscribe to a service with monthly fees, you are FORCED to pay the monthly fees for it. The payment isn't optional to access the game/service.
It is like beating around the bush with you. yes i have to pay a monthly fee for WOW that is not an opinion but a choice. But to say that 'i am being forced' to pay for WOW is your opinion not mine. it mus really bother you that we look at things differently. i can understand.
And comapring paying for electricity with a video game? really? by the way i never felt that i am forced into paying elecrticity bill.
My god youre amusing. In 1 sentence you say you know you have to pay for WoW, then in the next you tell me the fact that you have to pay for WoW is my opinion. Ive tried many times to dumb it down for you. You still dont seem to grasp the difference between the words PAY and PLAY. Learn to read those 2 words properly and you might have a leg to stand on.
And please dont enhance your foolishness by complaining about me comparing something to a video game. Its the exact same circumstances. You are getting a service. In order to receive it, you have to pay for it. BTW, your "feeling" that you arent forced to pay your electric, is an opinion. Fellings are opinions. That whole thing where you have to (aka are forced to) pay your electric bill in order to use your electricity, is a fact. Can you comprehend that much?
Before you start going off again, simmer down and read what was said. I did not say "you are forced to use your electricity". I said you are forced to pay it in order to use it. Using it (just like playing a game) is a choice, having to pay for your electricity to use it (just like paying a game subscription in order to play it) is not. If paying it was a choice, everyone would be playing WoW for free and getting free electric.
Its very very very very simple. Simple enough that even someone bordering on being deemed legally retarded could probably understand it. Even attempting to argue differently is just a practice in further improving the stupidity found throughout this thread.
I am a long time WOW player and i have been paying sub for over 6 years now. I think you are confusing the need to pay for enjoying a videogame as something you are forced to do. isn't that what yout wo have been arguing about for all this time? only because for example say i chose to pay for a MMO doesn't automatically means i am forced to do so. So yes he is right. Paying for a game is not an opinion it is a necessity but to say that you are beign forced to do so is matetr of opinion and prespective.
Why is it so hard to understand such a simple concept? can't believe you two have been arguing about something so simple. Also i would like to advice you to stop insulting others in every post you make, i went through a lot of posts in here and i am surprised that you got away with all the insultig and name calling. People differ on opinions all the time it doesn't make them retarded or stupid just people who think differently about a particular issue.
Wrong.
If you want to play a subscription game with monthly fees, or subscribe to a service with monthly fees, you are FORCED to pay the monthly fees for it. The payment isn't optional to access the game/service.
It's pretty damn simple.
I enjoy playing WOW, so i never felt i was forced to pay. Just how i never felt forced for paying for anything in life that i enjoy. I guess people feel they are being forced only when they don't like paying for a product but then why buy something which gives you such a feeling?
*shrugs*
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Comments
GW1 was also B2 and also had a cash shop. There were no real advantages to buying things, pretty much just fluff / cosmetic items. And when it comes to cash shops of any kind in any game, theres no tricking going on. Its not as if theyre using their telekinetic powers to reach into your wallet and pull out your credit card from across the world. Every time you make a purchase, its a decision you make based on wether or not you feel it is worth the cost. They tell you exactly what youre buying before you pay for it.. Its not hidden from you, or a lie. The whole "keeping up with the Jones's" thing is just evidence of someone being too dim to make a good rational decision and instead impulse buyng because they feel the need to fit in. If anyone has ever felt theyve been "tricked" into buying something in a cash shop, well id like to sell that person some magical beans.
As was explained to superdude, forced to pay and forced to play are 2 different things. You MUST pay to play. But you dont have to play if you choose not to.
You have to pay to get expansions in pretty much every game. Its not like thats new to B2P. (uhoh, sorry i said "have to". nevermind, according to some people its optional. theyll just give it to you without paying)
$60 has pretty much become the standard of any game (except for low-budget / indie games), including games that charge you monthly fees on top of paying that $60.
How exactly is it my opinion that you have to pay a subscription to play a subscription game, like WoW? Pretty sure thats a fact. You have yet to convince me otherwise, yet you keep insisting that its only my opinion that you have to pay that subscription.
And why would you pay them monthly? Youre not forced to right? According to your logic for several posts, having to pay for a service is just my opinion isnt it? You said it yourself, so why wouldnt you just tell them their opinion is wrong too and you dont have to pay to use your electricity?
I think it is hilarious that people still try to infer that GW2's shop will be like an asian ftp mmo. Do you know how Gw1's shop worked? if you did, you would know that the above sentiment is wrong. If you dont, you are still wrong, since that is how GW2's shop will be like.
Also how is $60 a rip-off exactly? Since pretty much every mediocre console games costs $60? Not only that but allmost any new "AAA" mmo cost this much, and with those you only get 30 days to play it before you have to pay again.
Surely, if you just think that all the pricing in the games industry is a rip-off, you might be right. However, it seems ot to specifically point this criticism towards GW2's pricing, since its the same as with any other game. in fact, its actually better than the standard in the gams industry. So it is just rediculous to complain about GW2's pricing in particular.
It is like beating around the bush with you. yes i have to pay a monthly fee for WOW that is not an opinion but a choice. But to say that 'i am being forced' to pay for WOW is your opinion not mine. it mus really bother you that we look at things differently. i can understand.
And comapring paying for electricity with a video game? really? by the way i never felt that i am forced into paying elecrticity bill.
Shocked! Shocked, I tell ya!
This is Anet. They don't do anything that is not in the best interest of their customers. They should be giving those statues away to everyone who preorders. Then they should send one of those prints every month to each player who logs in that month.
Shocked!
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
OP is rediculous.
If there is anything shocking here, its the fact that the prices arn't much, much higher for exvery edition. Since prety much any mediocre game has the same pricing, the fact that Anet is holding on to the same price eventhough it is offering much more quality is shocking indeed. Even more shocking is the fact that GW2 is b2p, yet has the same box prices as other mmos which are p2p. Its like, you buy one of those mmos and get a lifetime sub for FREE.
Shocking, shocking indeed!!!!
we're sheep. we'll buy anything. what can we say?
If you cant afford it, dont get it. I would have like the CE of TOR and GW2, but I cant afford em. I'll stick with the standard. It's not really a big deal. Wallet votes count a WHOLE lot more than forum votes in matters like these.
Yea, I would love an edition without the statue, but there isnt one right now, so I'm out of luck. Digital doesnt count because it doesnt have the art book and soundtrack that my wife would like.
Whatever topic it was then.
But thats the point isn't it. Other companies DO IN FACT CHARGE THE SAME PRICE. The b2p doesn't justify the pricing, the fact that every other company does it does this already. it is how the industry has evolved, and if thats a problem with anyone, thats what their rage should be directed at. Besides that, a CE price can be doubled and people would still have no riht to complain, because of the fact is just that, a limited CE that offers no additional gameplay at all. It is not about the actual woth of the products that the CE involve that make people consider buying them, it is the worth they feel the products have for them. Therefore CE's are for huge fans who are COLLUECTORS OF EXCLUSIVE ITEMS. Whining about the pricing of CE's is rediculous because you can't really put a price on it to begin with.
So again, the B2p is no excuse nor a justification of the price, becasue the price never needed one to begin with. You infered that GW2 fans will excuse GW2's CE price because of b2p while they flame the b2p games that have the same price. I disagree, i think a lot of GW2 fans actually still think the CE price is way to high for their liking.
Some people say that the Rytlock statue is what drove the price up and to me that sounds credible. I know those statues can run upwards of $80 to $90 but a statue of Rytlock just isn't worth it to me. Especially since they already produced a charr plushie--it seems redundant.
Personally only the game, soundtrack, artbook and engraved case are worth anything from the CE bundle.
I just wish they would forgo statues and make something cheaper...like 2 redeemable tickets for GW2 teeshirts or something. The themed-USBs from Diablo 3 and Swtor are nice too.
I'm not surprised.
There is probably a balance between the allotted finances, expected profit, and what the game should offer. It's not just about what a developer would like to see in a game.
Plus, ArenaNet is on its way to become a giant like Blizzard and BioWare. Once something becomes so big, it's easy to forget the roots and favor more profit over percieved "fairness" or "friendliness."
If the playerbase is willing to pay for it, and it doesn't significantly differ from other common practices in the industry in a negatiev way, from the business viewpoint it makes sense to do it.
I'm not saying any drastic change is going to happen within the GW franchise, but I'm curious where exactly ArenaNet will draw the line and which ideas/concepts they'll always insist upon, regardless of the involved profit and publisher's demands. I still believe ArenaNet's intent is bringing a good and fun game to play, not maximizing the profit on the players' expense, so the core ideology in will probably remain the same.
They've touted the BtP gaming model and the no forced grind philosophy (since the days of the good old "skill over time" motto), so I think they are probably going to stick with that, but for the rest they might (have to) chose whatever brings more money in.
Personally, I'd prefer the type of CE like there were for GW1, but it looks like that's out of fashion.
I'm not big on the figurines, but I'd like the OST, an artbook, and some purely visual perk in the game. I was pretty happy with the GW1 CEs.
(But since ATM I'm not even sure if I'll buy the game because of that broken armor thing, I guess this doesn't matter.)
Just like the SWTOR collectors edition which is a gentle giant statue that everyone kept saying the same thing "the statue is worth 70-80 pounds on its own" and then it goes on ebay for 30-40 quid the whole collectors.
Cause well collectors arent the same anymore, I remember when collectors meant only about 50-100k were actually made, like Vanilla WoW which is so rare, you are only going to find an unopened one on the back of a small village shop that somehow sells games and still has one or two.
Like SWTOR collectors edition, GW2 Collectors will outlast demand, they will make a lot of them, and by the time the hype wears off they will be stacked at HMV for quarter of the price, just like Halo, CoD, Gears of War and WoW Cataclysm.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Collectors stuff needs to be a few years old before being worth anything.
Personally I don't care if they take a thousand bucks for CEs, the whole concept is for people who like junk anyways.
Ok, I collect swords myself, but stuff from computer games are too much. But I don't see what people complain about, anyone not interested in paying $150 for a CE ain't really collectors anyways and should like me just stay clear of all the junk.
And at least here they offer you to get all the ingame stuff for $80.
Its not just the fact that it needs a few years, it also needs to be rare, that is what makes something expensive and a collectors item, when you mass produce collectors edition that its sitting on every game retailer warehouse for 2 -3 years and its being sold at a quarter of the price it can never truly reach collector status. It will never be worth 5k like a vanilla WoW collectors which only 50k or whatever were actually printed.
I agree. I would consider the CE if there was a little choice in what content was actually in it, most specifically the statue. It would have been nice if they had added the soundtrack to the deluxe addition to make that a bit more appealing too.
Regardless of any of that, it is nice that they have a few different choices in your level of "box" edition.
They have to make the big launch sales to make the big money for their investors. That is the only thing that matters with any AAA game company today.
I don't think CE is worth $150 because of some statue...Really? Who cares about useless crap! And who is even pre-ordering. Games are to easy to level up in to worry about the headstart or even waiting a week to see what it is like.
I know I will catch up to most players!
My god youre amusing. In 1 sentence you say you know you have to pay for WoW, then in the next you tell me the fact that you have to pay for WoW is my opinion. Ive tried many times to dumb it down for you. You still dont seem to grasp the difference between the words PAY and PLAY. Learn to read those 2 words properly and you might have a leg to stand on.
And please dont enhance your foolishness by complaining about me comparing something to a video game. Its the exact same circumstances. You are getting a service. In order to receive it, you have to pay for it. BTW, your "feeling" that you arent forced to pay your electric, is an opinion. Fellings are opinions. That whole thing where you have to (aka are forced to) pay your electric bill in order to use your electricity, is a fact. Can you comprehend that much?
Before you start going off again, simmer down and read what was said. I did not say "you are forced to use your electricity". I said you are forced to pay it in order to use it. Using it (just like playing a game) is a choice, having to pay for your electricity to use it (just like paying a game subscription in order to play it) is not. If paying it was a choice, everyone would be playing WoW for free and getting free electric.
Its very very very very simple. Simple enough that even someone bordering on being deemed legally retarded could probably understand it. Even attempting to argue differently is just a practice in further improving the stupidity found throughout this thread.
Umm, yeah... yeah you are.
They have 3 editions.
Standard
Deluxe
Collectors.
The difference from deluxe to collectors are the statues, art books, music CDs, etc... If you don't want those, go with deluxe. That is a CE without the pointless statue, etc.
Personally I want the statue and the CDs, although I am kind of meh about the art book... so I am getting the CE.
I like this guy ^
me too
Meh inflation of physical product probably has a factor to do with it. Digital media has been dodging the curse of inflation for years now, but it doesn't mean it has stopped.
And as others have said, its just the CE edition. My bro enjoys that crap so hes getting it, and I'm getting the standard. Both of us are happy.
I am a long time WOW player and i have been paying sub for over 6 years now. I think you are confusing the need to pay for enjoying a videogame as something you are forced to do. isn't that what yout wo have been arguing about for all this time? only because for example say i chose to pay for a MMO doesn't automatically means i am forced to do so. So yes he is right. Paying for a game is not an opinion it is a necessity but to say that you are beign forced to do so is matetr of opinion and prespective.
Why is it so hard to understand such a simple concept? can't believe you two have been arguing about something so simple. Also i would like to advice you to stop insulting others in every post you make, i went through a lot of posts in here and i am surprised that you got away with all the insultig and name calling. People differ on opinions all the time it doesn't make them retarded or stupid just people who think differently about a particular issue.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Wrong.
If you want to play a subscription game with monthly fees, or subscribe to a service with monthly fees, you are FORCED to pay the monthly fees for it. The payment isn't optional to access the game/service.
It's pretty damn simple.
I enjoy playing WOW, so i never felt i was forced to pay. Just how i never felt forced for paying for anything in life that i enjoy. I guess people feel they are being forced only when they don't like paying for a product but then why buy something which gives you such a feeling?
*shrugs*
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney