If that happened then the majority of people in the zone would always be heading for the most popular events. Everyone would be doing the same thing and in the same places as each other. It would encourage event farming and turn the game into another linear, although more dynamic, treadmill rather than a explorable journey. Basically, it would make it 'more' themepark.
I think this will be happening anyway. Once people learn of where to find a few specific events, they'll (in mass) go to whichever they find the most fun or has the "coolest" outcome(s). IMO anyway.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If that happened then the majority of people in the zone would always be heading for the most popular events. Everyone would be doing the same thing and in the same places as each other. It would encourage event farming and turn the game into another linear, although more dynamic, treadmill rather than a explorable journey. Basically, it would make it 'more' themepark.
Yeah this is a good point. In Rift, people would just form a herd and run from rift event to rift event...it really made the game feel more linear and buided.
I feel like my whole issue with this is really caused by the scout system (and hearts tasks), even though it seems like I'm supporting it. The scout system points you to, what are essentially WoW quests, in an area where dynamic events tend to happen. But it doesn't actually point you to currently happening events. I just have this fear that this has the potential to turn "WoW quest-grinding" into a viable, and maybe even most popular, leveling strategy in GW2. And I really don't want that.
I feel like if they have the scout system and hearts tasks...then they need to tell you when events are happening. Otherwise, people will follow their guide (scout) and just do hearts tasks.
I think they should indicate active events in a not-so-gamey way.
Instead of a big blip on the map to indicate a dragon attacking a town, why not show that it's happening by having giant pillars of fire and smoke radiating off the horizon?
They have this in the game already. If you see smoke in the background chances are there is a dynamic event going on like a farm or village burning. Or if you see a flock of harpies circling in the sky. Weather changes can also be caused by or kick off an event.
Stuff like this would be fine as well. But I don't think this is true for every single kind of event. Maybe in a really major "town attack" event, you would notice it from far away. But for an event where you have to escort a guy through a mine...there's going to be on real sign of it going on.
My only point is that people should have some notice from fairly far away that an event is happening. Unless events are so frequent that you literally can't miss them (which seems unlikely from the videos I've seen), I foresee players missing events to be a potential problem.
Compared to impressions of the rest of the game, there were some fairly negative impressions of dynamic events from the press beta. And these impressions all seem to be due to players just "missing" things. For instance, PCGamer expressed that events didn't really change anything and were really no different than either a public quest ala WAR, or a normal quest ala WoW. But it's likely that they just mistook hearts tasks for events or didn't bother to follow NPCs after an event's completion.
I just don't want players to miss a great part of the game because it wasn't made clear to them.
They might need to do something at the end of an event to clearly let people know that there's a next step coming up shortly. I think they mentioned waiting around a minute or so to see if something new happens, but that may as well be an hour for the average gamer. We tend to move along pretty quickly once we "finish" something, to look for something else to do. By the time a minute passes, I can see most people being well gone before the next link in the chain begins. That would certainly give the impression that DEs are standalone public quests, similar to WAR.
Nha i think its good how they do it. If it is marked on the map those events will be overloaded with people creating lag and everything bad attached. The fact you know they happen if you are close on the map is enough, if you find a good event, you'll probably call some friends, or ask some help in the chat anyway.
If that happened then the majority of people in the zone would always be heading for the most popular events. Everyone would be doing the same thing and in the same places as each other. It would encourage event farming and turn the game into another linear, although more dynamic, treadmill rather than a explorable journey. Basically, it would make it 'more' themepark.
I think this will be happening anyway. Once people learn of where to find a few specific events, they'll (in mass) go to whichever they find the most fun or has the "coolest" outcome(s). IMO anyway.
I agree that it will happen anyway. But events on the map would make it easier and encourage people who usually wouldn't play like that to do it as well. It'll be just like what the QuestHelper addon did to the MMO industry all over again. A lot of people blame WoW for the stale gameplay these day, without realising that the real problem was caused by that addon for WoW.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
I just want to re-iterate what some others have already said, which is that events are already indicated on the map, within orange-bordered circles. An escort event would have a shield icon within the orange circle, while a battle event has a crossed-sword icon within the orange circle. In both cases, the circle moves across the map if the event is in motion (such as with an escort event).
In the demo at PAX Prime last year you could see where The Sunless was going to land even before you got a pop-up notification, because of the huge orange circle on the map. And yes, I am referring to the larger map and not the minimap/compass.
In contrast, renown hearts don't have an orange circle around them, just the heart icon either empty or full on the map. You only get the orange circles around the renown hearts temporarily when you speak to a scout and they point out the areas of interest one at a time. The circles go away after that.
*I reserve the right to have a faulty memory, but this is how I recall it going down.
I've watched a lot of gameplay videos from the beta and one thing I've noticed is that players tend to go to a scout, run to a hearts task location, finish the task, move onto the next location, just like you would in a quest-grind MMORPG. The problem with this is that the whole point of the hearts tasks are just to get players in the vicinity of a dynamic event that may happen. But since players just burn through these tasks so fast and then move on, they often seem to miss the actual dynamic event.
Without anything to tell the player that there is an active event going on, I worry that many people will just blaze through GW2 like any other quest-grind MMORPG. Filling up heart after heart and very rarely encountering an actual event.
So I was thinking that it may be a good idea to have active dynamic events show up on a player's map, so they can zip to the location of the event once it starts. This is how Rift worked, and it really helped people find where the Rift events were.
So what do you all think? Is it a good idea to have active events pop up on your map? Or will this hurt the feeling of exploration too much?
EDIT: I put minimap up there previously...that was an error, I meant the big map. Minimap only goes out a short distance from your character.
I dislike the heart system on so many levels for this very reason. Ive even seen it being commented on so many times in the press beta events where they described the Dynamic Event system as not being that good or not having a long chain.......WELLL NO DUHHH YOU DUMBTWIT, you are doing nothing but the heart quests. People are so accustomed to being told where to go and what to do that I believe Anet should of totally gone away from the approach and forced players to have to explore their surroundings t oget to the content. But thats just me.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
I just want to re-iterate what some others have already said, which is that events are already indicated on the map, within orange-bordered circles. An escort event would have a shield icon within the orange circle, while a battle event has a crossed-sword icon within the orange circle. In both cases, the circle moves across the map if the event is in motion (such as with an escort event).
In the demo at PAX Prime last year you could see where The Sunless was going to land even before you got a pop-up notification, because of the huge orange circle on the map. And yes, I am referring to the larger map and not the minimap/compass.
In contrast, renown hearts don't have an orange circle around them, just the heart icon either empty or full on the map. You only get the orange circles around the renown hearts temporarily when you speak to a scout and they point out the areas of interest one at a time. The circles go away after that.
*I reserve the right to have a faulty memory, but this is how I recall it going down.
So if this is true, then events are already on the map. I would be interested to hear other impressions regarding this topic from people who played at a Con or the press beta if any press members are lurking.
If that happened then the majority of people in the zone would always be heading for the most popular events. Everyone would be doing the same thing and in the same places as each other. It would encourage event farming and turn the game into another linear, although more dynamic, treadmill rather than a explorable journey. Basically, it would make it 'more' themepark.
I think this will be happening anyway. Once people learn of where to find a few specific events, they'll (in mass) go to whichever they find the most fun or has the "coolest" outcome(s). IMO anyway.
I agree that it will happen anyway. But events on the map would make it easier and encourage people who usually wouldn't play like that to do it as well. It'll be just like what the QuestHelper addon did to the MMO industry all over again. A lot of people blame WoW for the stale gameplay these day, without realising that the real problem was caused by that addon for WoW.
I agree, I feel the same way about this implementation in games like The Elder Scrolls series as well. It has a tendancy to put players on the fast lane through the game world, and kills exploration.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I've watched a lot of gameplay videos from the beta and one thing I've noticed is that players tend to go to a scout, run to a hearts task location, finish the task, move onto the next location, just like you would in a quest-grind MMORPG. The problem with this is that the whole point of the hearts tasks are just to get players in the vicinity of a dynamic event that may happen. But since players just burn through these tasks so fast and then move on, they often seem to miss the actual dynamic event.
Without anything to tell the player that there is an active event going on, I worry that many people will just blaze through GW2 like any other quest-grind MMORPG. Filling up heart after heart and very rarely encountering an actual event.
So I was thinking that it may be a good idea to have active dynamic events show up on a player's map, so they can zip to the location of the event once it starts. This is how Rift worked, and it really helped people find where the Rift events were.
So what do you all think? Is it a good idea to have active events pop up on your map? Or will this hurt the feeling of exploration too much?
EDIT: I put minimap up there previously...that was an error, I meant the big map. Minimap only goes out a short distance from your character.
I dislike the heart system on so many levels for this very reason. Ive even seen it being commented on so many times in the press beta events where they described the Dynamic Event system as not being that good or not having a long chain.......WELLL NO DUHHH YOU DUMBTWIT, you are doing nothing but the heart quests. People are so accustomed to being told where to go and what to do that I believe Anet should of totally gone away from the approach and forced players to have to explore their surroundings t oget to the content. But thats just me.
Completely agree.
My two biggest fears with GW2 right now are the trait system because it has the potential to pigeonhole people into specific roles, and the hearts system because it has the potential to make "WoW-esque quest grinding" a viable leveling strategy.
I'm big on exploring and the unknown. Most likely I will not talk to the scout and have the heart icons turned off and any other quest notifications off. It gives me more of a sense of adventure. Especially with all the hidden areas like caves that have lore items you can collect.
I've watched a lot of gameplay videos from the beta and one thing I've noticed is that players tend to go to a scout, run to a hearts task location, finish the task, move onto the next location, just like you would in a quest-grind MMORPG. The problem with this is that the whole point of the hearts tasks are just to get players in the vicinity of a dynamic event that may happen. But since players just burn through these tasks so fast and then move on, they often seem to miss the actual dynamic event.
Without anything to tell the player that there is an active event going on, I worry that many people will just blaze through GW2 like any other quest-grind MMORPG. Filling up heart after heart and very rarely encountering an actual event.
So I was thinking that it may be a good idea to have active dynamic events show up on a player's map, so they can zip to the location of the event once it starts. This is how Rift worked, and it really helped people find where the Rift events were.
So what do you all think? Is it a good idea to have active events pop up on your map? Or will this hurt the feeling of exploration too much?
EDIT: I put minimap up there previously...that was an error, I meant the big map. Minimap only goes out a short distance from your character.
I dislike the heart system on so many levels for this very reason. Ive even seen it being commented on so many times in the press beta events where they described the Dynamic Event system as not being that good or not having a long chain.......WELLL NO DUHHH YOU DUMBTWIT, you are doing nothing but the heart quests. People are so accustomed to being told where to go and what to do that I believe Anet should of totally gone away from the approach and forced players to have to explore their surroundings t oget to the content. But thats just me.
Completely agree.
My two biggest fears with GW2 right now are the trait system because it has the potential to pigeonhole people into specific roles, and the hearts system because it has the potential to make "WoW-esque quest grinding" a viable leveling strategy.
Agree again and those are pretty much my only two issues so far. But more so with the heart system I mean all through this games development we here about how this game is gonna be a different leveling experience because DEs were supposed to be the way to level. Then we have this heart system, which is essentially a quest hub that moves you throughout a zone.
Now sure I might be able to avoid this system all together by doing DEs/wvw but as Creslin said people will go the path of least resistance. I really don't want to get into a situation where I feel like I'm soloing de's. Because the heart system is more effecient or whatever execuse the masses come up with to avoid having to wait for a de to potentially pop.
Sure the "major" ones might get people there regardless, but what about those out of the way ones. The ones that might be off the beaten path.
I've watched a lot of gameplay videos from the beta and one thing I've noticed is that players tend to go to a scout, run to a hearts task location, finish the task, move onto the next location, just like you would in a quest-grind MMORPG. The problem with this is that the whole point of the hearts tasks are just to get players in the vicinity of a dynamic event that may happen. But since players just burn through these tasks so fast and then move on, they often seem to miss the actual dynamic event.
Without anything to tell the player that there is an active event going on, I worry that many people will just blaze through GW2 like any other quest-grind MMORPG. Filling up heart after heart and very rarely encountering an actual event.
So I was thinking that it may be a good idea to have active dynamic events show up on a player's map, so they can zip to the location of the event once it starts. This is how Rift worked, and it really helped people find where the Rift events were.
So what do you all think? Is it a good idea to have active events pop up on your map? Or will this hurt the feeling of exploration too much?
EDIT: I put minimap up there previously...that was an error, I meant the big map. Minimap only goes out a short distance from your character.
I dislike the heart system on so many levels for this very reason. Ive even seen it being commented on so many times in the press beta events where they described the Dynamic Event system as not being that good or not having a long chain.......WELLL NO DUHHH YOU DUMBTWIT, you are doing nothing but the heart quests. People are so accustomed to being told where to go and what to do that I believe Anet should of totally gone away from the approach and forced players to have to explore their surroundings t oget to the content. But thats just me.
Completely agree.
My two biggest fears with GW2 right now are the trait system because it has the potential to pigeonhole people into specific roles, and the hearts system because it has the potential to make "WoW-esque quest grinding" a viable leveling strategy.
Agree again and those are pretty much my only two issues so far. But more so with the heart system I mean all through this games development we here about how this game is gonna be a different leveling experience because DEs were supposed to be the way to level. Then we have this heart system, which is essentially a quest hub that moves you throughout a zone.
Now sure I might be able to avoid this system all together by doing DEs/wvw but as Creslin said people will go the path of least resistance. I really don't want to get into a situation where I feel like I'm soloing de's. Because the heart system is more effecient or whatever execuse the masses come up with to avoid having to wait for a de to potentially pop.
Sure the "major" ones might get people there regardless, but what about those out of the way ones. The ones that might be off the beaten path.
Good to hear there is someone here who is just as concerned about the hearts system as I am.
I created a thread a while back to discuss how the hearts tasks are similar to WoW's quests, and how this could change the GW2 leveling experience. And there was much scoffing and dismissing of my concerns lol .
Despite that though...I still have my concerns. After watching video after video of the press players just do a heart and then move onto the next one ala WoW...it definitely has me worried.
The thing is... ArenaNet added those hearts and those notifications because people weren't exploring and weren't noticing them. Now they add them and we're afraid players will treat them like quest nodes. I'm not sure there's a winning scenario here.
Worst-case situation, the notifications and hearts are gone and people quit in the first 20 minutes because (edit: the perception is that) there's nothing to do, no direction, and we get a nice little niche community of explorers, which is wonderful for shared interests but terrible for sales, WvWvW activity, epic events, etc.
Second worst-case situation, people mistakenly think of renown hearts and events as quests, but quests they never have to sync up on, never have to compete for resources on, and occasionally spawn a world boss that everyone in the area gets to take part in killing. ANet takes a ding to its "innovation" cred because people don't really know what underlying mechanics are at play, but people are playing together and having a good time.
active events in radar range do show up on the minimap, via an objective icon.
Do they show up on the big map that I would presume pops up when you press "M?" Because the minimap only goes so far.
you said minimap. but yes, nearby(this is the key word) events do show up on the main map with an icon and a red circle around it.
events are no longer simply put on the map in general because not only would you run across the world to one that is now over, it also takes away exploration completely when you can just fast track to certain events.
The thing is... ArenaNet added those hearts and those notifications because people weren't exploring and weren't noticing them. Now they add them and we're afraid players will treat them like quest nodes. I'm not sure there's a winning scenario here.
Worst-case situation, the notifications and hearts are gone and people quit in the first 20 minutes because (edit: the perception is that) there's nothing to do, no direction, and we get a nice little niche community of explorers, which is wonderful for shared interests but terrible for sales, WvWvW activity, epic events, etc.
Second worst-case situation, people mistakenly think of renown hearts and events as quests, but quests they never have to sync up on, never have to compete for resources on, and occasionally spawn a world boss that everyone in the area gets to take part in killing. ANet takes a ding to its "innovation" cred because people don't really know what underlying mechanics are at play, but people are playing together and having a good time.
The thing is, considering as a world GW2 is nothing but horizontal progression. It doesn't matter if players miss an event as they can always come back to them at any level. This aspect makes me question why it's necesarry to lead players around at all.
In my opinion the more you lead a player around, the more you trivialize the leveling and adventuring aspects of a game, I don't think you should do it just because someone might get lost from time to time.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The thing is... ArenaNet added those hearts and those notifications because people weren't exploring and weren't noticing them. Now they add them and we're afraid players will treat them like quest nodes. I'm not sure there's a winning scenario here.
Worst-case situation, the notifications and hearts are gone and people quit in the first 20 minutes because (edit: the perception is that) there's nothing to do, no direction, and we get a nice little niche community of explorers, which is wonderful for shared interests but terrible for sales, WvWvW activity, epic events, etc.
Second worst-case situation, people mistakenly think of renown hearts and events as quests, but quests they never have to sync up on, never have to compete for resources on, and occasionally spawn a world boss that everyone in the area gets to take part in killing. ANet takes a ding to its "innovation" cred because people don't really know what underlying mechanics are at play, but people are playing together and having a good time.
The thing is, considering as a world GW2 is nothing but horizontal progression. It doesn't matter if players miss an event as they can always come back to them at any level. This aspect makes me question why it's necesarry to lead players around at all.
some testers were not doing events at all because they are use to the ancient quest system so they added the scout option. i didn't talk to a scout in any of my demo sessions, so it's not something that needs to be complained about as if it affects everyone.
pretty much every question about events can be answered in this extremely old link
The thing is... ArenaNet added those hearts and those notifications because people weren't exploring and weren't noticing them. Now they add them and we're afraid players will treat them like quest nodes. I'm not sure there's a winning scenario here.
Worst-case situation, the notifications and hearts are gone and people quit in the first 20 minutes because (edit: the perception is that) there's nothing to do, no direction, and we get a nice little niche community of explorers, which is wonderful for shared interests but terrible for sales, WvWvW activity, epic events, etc.
Second worst-case situation, people mistakenly think of renown hearts and events as quests, but quests they never have to sync up on, never have to compete for resources on, and occasionally spawn a world boss that everyone in the area gets to take part in killing. ANet takes a ding to its "innovation" cred because people don't really know what underlying mechanics are at play, but people are playing together and having a good time.
The thing is, considering as a world GW2 is nothing but horizontal progression. It doesn't matter if players miss an event as they can always come back to them at any level. This aspect makes me question why it's necesarry to lead players around at all.
Yeah...I would have preferred they just let players explore and find stuff. I don't like the whole leading around thing. I know that some people may think I'm crazy considering my OP...but the OP is really a reaction to the whole renown hearts thing.
But this is a fairly difficult problem. You basically have to balance the immersiveness of the world against the "fun factor" of the game. If you give no guidance to your players, then they may miss the majority of events and feel like the game is dull. There also may be underpopulated events because most people don't know about them. But if you give too much guidance to your players, then you have a "hand-holding" themepark design that we all hate.
I would honestly like some kind of player-based alert system. Where if a player finds a particularly big event, maybe they can set off a flare or something that other players can visually see and go to. That would be cool.
The thing is... ArenaNet added those hearts and those notifications because people weren't exploring and weren't noticing them. Now they add them and we're afraid players will treat them like quest nodes. I'm not sure there's a winning scenario here.
Worst-case situation, the notifications and hearts are gone and people quit in the first 20 minutes because (edit: the perception is that) there's nothing to do, no direction, and we get a nice little niche community of explorers, which is wonderful for shared interests but terrible for sales, WvWvW activity, epic events, etc.
Second worst-case situation, people mistakenly think of renown hearts and events as quests, but quests they never have to sync up on, never have to compete for resources on, and occasionally spawn a world boss that everyone in the area gets to take part in killing. ANet takes a ding to its "innovation" cred because people don't really know what underlying mechanics are at play, but people are playing together and having a good time.
The thing is, considering as a world GW2 is nothing but horizontal progression. It doesn't matter if players miss an event as they can always come back to them at any level. This aspect makes me question why it's necesarry to lead players around at all.
Yeah...I would have preferred they just let players explore and find stuff. I don't like the whole leading around thing. I know that some people may think I'm crazy considering my OP...but the OP is really a reaction to the whole renown hearts thing.
But this is a fairly difficult problem. You basically have to balance the immersiveness of the world against the "fun factor" of the game. If you give no guidance to your players, then they may miss the majority of events and feel like the game is dull. There also may be underpopulated events because most people don't know about them. But if you give too much guidance to your players, then you have a "hand-holding" themepark design that we all hate.
I would honestly like some kind of player-based alert system. Where if a player finds a particularly big event, maybe they can set off a flare or something that other players can visually see and go to. That would be cool.
I'm sure many of us would be Spiderman (with great power comes great responsiblity) with such player system but there are always those who enjoy using such tools for evil. It's too bad it's a nice idea for a game full of Spidermen but then again many ideas are like that.
I think they should launch and evaluate. If players struggle to find things then think about how they can provide some direction. Maybe they are getting such feed back now in the tests but testing is always small scale.
talking to scouts is an option, you're not led around.
The scouts don't really bother me, the renown hearts do. Without renown hearts, scouts just point you to a transient event that may or may not be happening when you get there.
With renown hearts, they point you to a static quest tied to the player and not the world, that bears a heavy resemblence to a WoW quest.
The thing is... ArenaNet added those hearts and those notifications because people weren't exploring and weren't noticing them. Now they add them and we're afraid players will treat them like quest nodes. I'm not sure there's a winning scenario here.
Worst-case situation, the notifications and hearts are gone and people quit in the first 20 minutes because (edit: the perception is that) there's nothing to do, no direction, and we get a nice little niche community of explorers, which is wonderful for shared interests but terrible for sales, WvWvW activity, epic events, etc.
Second worst-case situation, people mistakenly think of renown hearts and events as quests, but quests they never have to sync up on, never have to compete for resources on, and occasionally spawn a world boss that everyone in the area gets to take part in killing. ANet takes a ding to its "innovation" cred because people don't really know what underlying mechanics are at play, but people are playing together and having a good time.
The thing is, considering as a world GW2 is nothing but horizontal progression. It doesn't matter if players miss an event as they can always come back to them at any level. This aspect makes me question why it's necesarry to lead players around at all.
Yeah...I would have preferred they just let players explore and find stuff. I don't like the whole leading around thing. I know that some people may think I'm crazy considering my OP...but the OP is really a reaction to the whole renown hearts thing.
But this is a fairly difficult problem. You basically have to balance the immersiveness of the world against the "fun factor" of the game. If you give no guidance to your players, then they may miss the majority of events and feel like the game is dull. There also may be underpopulated events because most people don't know about them. But if you give too much guidance to your players, then you have a "hand-holding" themepark design that we all hate.
I would honestly like some kind of player-based alert system. Where if a player finds a particularly big event, maybe they can set off a flare or something that other players can visually see and go to. That would be cool.
I'm sure many of us would be Spiderman (with great power comes great responsiblity) with such player system but there are always those who enjoy using such tools for evil. It's too bad it's a nice idea for a game full of Spidermen but then again many ideas are like that.
I think they should launch and evaluate. If players struggle to find things then think about how they can provide some direction. Maybe they are getting such feed back now in the tests but testing is always small scale.
Simple Fix:
make it so you can only fire a flare in the vicnity of an event, and only one can be fired per event. Or even just make it an NPC ability to fire a flare. It would be a very simple, very immersive way to let players know that an event is going on.
Yeah...I would have preferred they just let players explore and find stuff. I don't like the whole leading around thing. I know that some people may think I'm crazy considering my OP...but the OP is really a reaction to the whole renown hearts thing.
But this is a fairly difficult problem. You basically have to balance the immersiveness of the world against the "fun factor" of the game. If you give no guidance to your players, then they may miss the majority of events and feel like the game is dull. There also may be underpopulated events because most people don't know about them. But if you give too much guidance to your players, then you have a "hand-holding" themepark design that we all hate.
I would honestly like some kind of player-based alert system. Where if a player finds a particularly big event, maybe they can set off a flare or something that other players can visually see and go to. That would be cool.
Originally posted by fony
some testers were not doing events at all because they are use to the ancient quest system so they added the scout option. i didn't talk to a scout in any of my demo sessions, so it's not something that needs to be complained about as if it affects everyone.
pretty much every question about events can be answered in this extremely old link
click on messaging to skip to the part relevant to this thread.
These points do make sense. Fony is right you really don't have to use anything you don't want to. As long as it's not some "bat-light" that all can see pointing the way to a DE, explorers can still explore.
Visual queues are fine as well, (smoke, fire, people running away, etc..) As that would add to immersion IMO. As long as I'm not forcefully lead around I am okay with it. I just don't want lazer lights guiding my way in a fantasy world, or big arrows on a compass doing the same thing.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
talking to scouts is an option, you're not led around.
The scouts don't really bother me, the renown hearts do. Without renown hearts, scouts just point you to a transient event that may or may not be happening when you get there.
With renown hearts, they point you to a static quest tied to the player and not the world, that bears a heavy resemblence to a WoW quest.
hearts are regular quests, they're added because events are dynamic and not just "lol PQ's". so without those hearts the WoW babies would have nothing to do in between events since they don't like exploring much or aren't use to it. these are all optional features, kind of side dishes added as a response to play testing feedback going back 5 years.
i don't like scouts, auto select target or skills being on 6-10 so i didn't talk to scouts, bound my keys and unchecked auto targeting. i'd rather complain about the things that aren't optional and under my control, like the 1-5 weapon skills not bieing slottable.
Comments
Why are people so desperate to completely get rid of all exploration in MMOs?
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
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I think this will be happening anyway. Once people learn of where to find a few specific events, they'll (in mass) go to whichever they find the most fun or has the "coolest" outcome(s). IMO anyway.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yeah this is a good point. In Rift, people would just form a herd and run from rift event to rift event...it really made the game feel more linear and buided.
I feel like my whole issue with this is really caused by the scout system (and hearts tasks), even though it seems like I'm supporting it. The scout system points you to, what are essentially WoW quests, in an area where dynamic events tend to happen. But it doesn't actually point you to currently happening events. I just have this fear that this has the potential to turn "WoW quest-grinding" into a viable, and maybe even most popular, leveling strategy in GW2. And I really don't want that.
I feel like if they have the scout system and hearts tasks...then they need to tell you when events are happening. Otherwise, people will follow their guide (scout) and just do hearts tasks.
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They might need to do something at the end of an event to clearly let people know that there's a next step coming up shortly. I think they mentioned waiting around a minute or so to see if something new happens, but that may as well be an hour for the average gamer. We tend to move along pretty quickly once we "finish" something, to look for something else to do. By the time a minute passes, I can see most people being well gone before the next link in the chain begins. That would certainly give the impression that DEs are standalone public quests, similar to WAR.
Nha i think its good how they do it. If it is marked on the map those events will be overloaded with people creating lag and everything bad attached. The fact you know they happen if you are close on the map is enough, if you find a good event, you'll probably call some friends, or ask some help in the chat anyway.
I agree that it will happen anyway. But events on the map would make it easier and encourage people who usually wouldn't play like that to do it as well. It'll be just like what the QuestHelper addon did to the MMO industry all over again. A lot of people blame WoW for the stale gameplay these day, without realising that the real problem was caused by that addon for WoW.
I just want to re-iterate what some others have already said, which is that events are already indicated on the map, within orange-bordered circles. An escort event would have a shield icon within the orange circle, while a battle event has a crossed-sword icon within the orange circle. In both cases, the circle moves across the map if the event is in motion (such as with an escort event).
In the demo at PAX Prime last year you could see where The Sunless was going to land even before you got a pop-up notification, because of the huge orange circle on the map. And yes, I am referring to the larger map and not the minimap/compass.
In contrast, renown hearts don't have an orange circle around them, just the heart icon either empty or full on the map. You only get the orange circles around the renown hearts temporarily when you speak to a scout and they point out the areas of interest one at a time. The circles go away after that.
*I reserve the right to have a faulty memory, but this is how I recall it going down.
I dislike the heart system on so many levels for this very reason. Ive even seen it being commented on so many times in the press beta events where they described the Dynamic Event system as not being that good or not having a long chain.......WELLL NO DUHHH YOU DUMBTWIT, you are doing nothing but the heart quests. People are so accustomed to being told where to go and what to do that I believe Anet should of totally gone away from the approach and forced players to have to explore their surroundings t oget to the content. But thats just me.
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So if this is true, then events are already on the map. I would be interested to hear other impressions regarding this topic from people who played at a Con or the press beta if any press members are lurking.
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I agree, I feel the same way about this implementation in games like The Elder Scrolls series as well. It has a tendancy to put players on the fast lane through the game world, and kills exploration.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Completely agree.
My two biggest fears with GW2 right now are the trait system because it has the potential to pigeonhole people into specific roles, and the hearts system because it has the potential to make "WoW-esque quest grinding" a viable leveling strategy.
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I'm big on exploring and the unknown. Most likely I will not talk to the scout and have the heart icons turned off and any other quest notifications off. It gives me more of a sense of adventure. Especially with all the hidden areas like caves that have lore items you can collect.
Agree again and those are pretty much my only two issues so far. But more so with the heart system I mean all through this games development we here about how this game is gonna be a different leveling experience because DEs were supposed to be the way to level. Then we have this heart system, which is essentially a quest hub that moves you throughout a zone.
Now sure I might be able to avoid this system all together by doing DEs/wvw but as Creslin said people will go the path of least resistance. I really don't want to get into a situation where I feel like I'm soloing de's. Because the heart system is more effecient or whatever execuse the masses come up with to avoid having to wait for a de to potentially pop.
Sure the "major" ones might get people there regardless, but what about those out of the way ones. The ones that might be off the beaten path.
Good to hear there is someone here who is just as concerned about the hearts system as I am.
I created a thread a while back to discuss how the hearts tasks are similar to WoW's quests, and how this could change the GW2 leveling experience. And there was much scoffing and dismissing of my concerns lol
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Despite that though...I still have my concerns. After watching video after video of the press players just do a heart and then move onto the next one ala WoW...it definitely has me worried.
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The thing is... ArenaNet added those hearts and those notifications because people weren't exploring and weren't noticing them. Now they add them and we're afraid players will treat them like quest nodes. I'm not sure there's a winning scenario here.
Worst-case situation, the notifications and hearts are gone and people quit in the first 20 minutes because (edit: the perception is that) there's nothing to do, no direction, and we get a nice little niche community of explorers, which is wonderful for shared interests but terrible for sales, WvWvW activity, epic events, etc.
Second worst-case situation, people mistakenly think of renown hearts and events as quests, but quests they never have to sync up on, never have to compete for resources on, and occasionally spawn a world boss that everyone in the area gets to take part in killing. ANet takes a ding to its "innovation" cred because people don't really know what underlying mechanics are at play, but people are playing together and having a good time.
you said minimap. but yes, nearby(this is the key word) events do show up on the main map with an icon and a red circle around it.
events are no longer simply put on the map in general because not only would you run across the world to one that is now over, it also takes away exploration completely when you can just fast track to certain events.
The thing is, considering as a world GW2 is nothing but horizontal progression. It doesn't matter if players miss an event as they can always come back to them at any level. This aspect makes me question why it's necesarry to lead players around at all.
In my opinion the more you lead a player around, the more you trivialize the leveling and adventuring aspects of a game, I don't think you should do it just because someone might get lost from time to time.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
some testers were not doing events at all because they are use to the ancient quest system so they added the scout option. i didn't talk to a scout in any of my demo sessions, so it's not something that needs to be complained about as if it affects everyone.
pretty much every question about events can be answered in this extremely old link
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1013691/Designing_Guild_Wars_2_Dynamic_Events
click on messaging to skip to the part relevant to this thread.
Yeah...I would have preferred they just let players explore and find stuff. I don't like the whole leading around thing. I know that some people may think I'm crazy considering my OP...but the OP is really a reaction to the whole renown hearts thing.
But this is a fairly difficult problem. You basically have to balance the immersiveness of the world against the "fun factor" of the game. If you give no guidance to your players, then they may miss the majority of events and feel like the game is dull. There also may be underpopulated events because most people don't know about them. But if you give too much guidance to your players, then you have a "hand-holding" themepark design that we all hate.
I would honestly like some kind of player-based alert system. Where if a player finds a particularly big event, maybe they can set off a flare or something that other players can visually see and go to. That would be cool.
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talking to scouts is an option, you're not led around.
I'm sure many of us would be Spiderman (with great power comes great responsiblity) with such player system but there are always those who enjoy using such tools for evil. It's too bad it's a nice idea for a game full of Spidermen but then again many ideas are like that.
I think they should launch and evaluate. If players struggle to find things then think about how they can provide some direction. Maybe they are getting such feed back now in the tests but testing is always small scale.
The scouts don't really bother me, the renown hearts do. Without renown hearts, scouts just point you to a transient event that may or may not be happening when you get there.
With renown hearts, they point you to a static quest tied to the player and not the world, that bears a heavy resemblence to a WoW quest.
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Simple Fix:
make it so you can only fire a flare in the vicnity of an event, and only one can be fired per event. Or even just make it an NPC ability to fire a flare. It would be a very simple, very immersive way to let players know that an event is going on.
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These points do make sense. Fony is right you really don't have to use anything you don't want to. As long as it's not some "bat-light" that all can see pointing the way to a DE, explorers can still explore.
Visual queues are fine as well, (smoke, fire, people running away, etc..) As that would add to immersion IMO. As long as I'm not forcefully lead around I am okay with it. I just don't want lazer lights guiding my way in a fantasy world, or big arrows on a compass doing the same thing.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
hearts are regular quests, they're added because events are dynamic and not just "lol PQ's". so without those hearts the WoW babies would have nothing to do in between events since they don't like exploring much or aren't use to it. these are all optional features, kind of side dishes added as a response to play testing feedback going back 5 years.
i don't like scouts, auto select target or skills being on 6-10 so i didn't talk to scouts, bound my keys and unchecked auto targeting. i'd rather complain about the things that aren't optional and under my control, like the 1-5 weapon skills not bieing slottable.