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For the love of god, tell SE leveling is too fast! New Poll on Lodestone.

OzrethOzreth Phoenix, AZPosts: 574Member

For all of us who think the super fas levelling in FFXIV is part of what is hurting the game, now is our chance to really let them know. Head over the the lodestone and take the new poll!

Give us a slow levelling process that is actually fun and meaningful along the way and gives us a reason to make frieds and form a community : )

https://secure.square-enix.com/enqt/e/FF14NPLAYERENQ03/html

 

Originally posted by Scagweed22
is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life
Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.

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Comments

  • Zookz1Zookz1 Baltimore, MDPosts: 629Member

    I told them I didn't think the time to level was an issue. I told them that they should concern themselves with making leveling fun first. Do these developers ever take off the dev hat and actually play the game as a regular player would? Leveling past 30 is either a completely mindless zerg or a solo grindfest. I don't care if I can get a class to 50 in 20 hours or 20 weeks. It needs to be something I enjoy doing.

  • OzrethOzreth Phoenix, AZPosts: 574Member

    Originally posted by Zookz1

    I told them I didn't think the time to level was an issue. I told them that they should concern themselves with making leveling fun first. Do these developers ever take off the dev hat and actually play the game as a regular player would? Leveling past 30 is either a completely mindless zerg or a solo grindfest. I don't care if I can get a class to 50 in 20 hours or 20 weeks. It needs to be something I enjoy doing.

    Fair enough! I just think that making a game %99 soloable kills community, which is what the FFXI crowd wants, which is a majority of the population of FFXIV players.

    As long as the message gets across that SOME sort of change needs to be made to the leveling, thats whats important. 

    Originally posted by Scagweed22
    is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life
    Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.

  • nomssnomss albany, NYPosts: 1,468Member

    Originally posted by Zookz1

    I told them I didn't think the time to level was an issue. I told them that they should concern themselves with making leveling fun first. Do these developers ever take off the dev hat and actually play the game as a regular player would? Leveling past 30 is either a completely mindless zerg or a solo grindfest. I don't care if I can get a class to 50 in 20 hours or 20 weeks. It needs to be something I enjoy doing.

    You know, I have only heard ANet play their game, I have not heard any other developers say that they love playing their own game.

  • NeverdyneNeverdyne Guatemala CityPosts: 167Member

    Originally posted by nomss

    Originally posted by Zookz1

    I told them I didn't think the time to level was an issue. I told them that they should concern themselves with making leveling fun first. Do these developers ever take off the dev hat and actually play the game as a regular player would? Leveling past 30 is either a completely mindless zerg or a solo grindfest. I don't care if I can get a class to 50 in 20 hours or 20 weeks. It needs to be something I enjoy doing.

    You know, I have only heard ANet play their game, I have not heard any other developers say that they love playing their own game.

     

    That's not true however. Most developers play their game, for example Blizzard developers say it sometimes on the forums. Most Blizzard employees play WoW in fact, from the community representatives to the developers themselves. It's the same on many other MMOs. 

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar drummondville, QCPosts: 7,987Member

    this isnt has hard as it sound!first you go on twitch then you start a stream(i am speaking to dev here NOT PLAYER)THEN YOU STREAM AT 1080I(since this is the most forgiving bandwith wise).then you make everybody know you are streaming say once a week!then who ever is streaming at ff14 dev end make sure they view what is being said in chat there!

    and ask for positive feed back (concrete appliable)cause some like to ramble on.

    it take just an hour or two a week to actually ber hit in the face with what the game issue are when you stream !it would take month or even years via the normal way!

    THEN YOU FIX THE VARIOUS ISSUE!

    its like me i drive big 18 wheeler!i come to mechanic and say hey truck is overeating,i suggest possible issue!he change every part i mention without making sure they are indead the issue!

    you know what ? my truck still overheat!and they still havent found the problem!we begin to suspect it is an incompatibility with sensor or wire  bug somewhere !so it probably costed them 50 000 for something that if they had tested first they would have found it is a 20 $ problem!so make the proper diagnostic first!

  • DeathofsageDeathofsage Winston, PAPosts: 998Member

    Originally posted by Neverdyne

     

    That's not true however. Most developers play their game, for example Blizzard developers say it sometimes on the forums. Most Blizzard employees play WoW in fact, from the community representatives to the developers themselves. It's the same on many other MMOs. 

    No. Most developers say they play their game. It's no different than buying a new chevy. The salesman will tell you he himself drives a chevy even if it's a ford he's got parked around back.

    * * *

    How fast is "fast"? How much slower do you think it should be OP? Half the speed? 10%? It's not anything stupid like XI's bookburns is it?

    Also, for those of us without accounts.. Is it displaying results? Can you post them here?

    Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
    12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
    Placing bets Blizzard's "Titan" will be a wow-clone.

  • DeathofsageDeathofsage Winston, PAPosts: 998Member

    Originally posted by Ozreth

    Originally posted by Zookz1

     

    Fair enough! I just think that making a game %99 soloable kills community, which is what the FFXI crowd wants, which is a majority of the population of FFXIV players.

    As long as the message gets across that SOME sort of change needs to be made to the leveling, thats whats important. 

    Yeah, really, Abyssea's leveling/book-burns should have taught them all they need to know about what XI's community wants.

    At first, at very first, it feels awesome. The XP per hour is insane, and you enjoy a day or two of it (at least I did) and then you realize you have everything merited. I got 80 merits in one full day leveling on Bluffalo.

    There are plenty of people that like Party Grinding and SE already had a hook in most of them, they should have stuck with what they knew. I mean Guildleves sound a bit like Fields of Valor, and both are fine so that in situations where parties aren't available, or you just want to solo, you're not helpless, but party xp game...yesplease.

    Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
    12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
    Placing bets Blizzard's "Titan" will be a wow-clone.

  • Zookz1Zookz1 Baltimore, MDPosts: 629Member

    Originally posted by Deathofsage

    Originally posted by Ozreth


    Originally posted by Zookz1

     

    Fair enough! I just think that making a game %99 soloable kills community, which is what the FFXI crowd wants, which is a majority of the population of FFXIV players.

    As long as the message gets across that SOME sort of change needs to be made to the leveling, thats whats important. 

    Yeah, really, Abyssea's leveling/book-burns should have taught them all they need to know about what XI's community wants.

    At first, at very first, it feels awesome. The XP per hour is insane, and you enjoy a day or two of it (at least I did) and then you realize you have everything merited. I got 80 merits in one full day leveling on Bluffalo.

    There are plenty of people that like Party Grinding and SE already had a hook in most of them, they should have stuck with what they knew. I mean Guildleves sound a bit like Fields of Valor, and both are fine so that in situations where parties aren't available, or you just want to solo, you're not helpless, but party xp game...yesplease.

     

    I don't totally disagree with you, but I will never again play a game where I have to look for a party or attempt to put one together for an entire play session (several hours) and have it end with me never getting anything accomplished. In XI and XIV, I have actually spent a week without a PT leaving me to solo for a miserable amount of XP.

    FFXI needed Abyssea because it's extremely top heavy after being around for a decade. FFXIV is already extremely top heavy a year after release. How are they going to adopt a slower and steadier approach to progression at this point? It would ruin the game for newer players.

    FFXIV needs a more modern approach than what they currently have. The franchise as a whole, including XI, place emphasis on story. It seems silly that the main method of progression is to sit in one spot and grind monsters from 30-50. Shouldn't we be discovering things about the world and the inhabitants? Shouldn't I learn about the native creatures and the lands? The main storyline is laughably short and excessively boring in terms of gameplay. I know it's an extremely unpopular opinon amongst FFXI/XIV players, but I want to see a more quest driven (read: story driven) approach to progression, but the mere mention of having quested progressions sends the community into a seething rage.

    Maybe people want an "oldschool" experience with XIV, but I have serious doubts as to whether that is something SE is willing to deliver. They already had/have that game in XI.

  • DeathofsageDeathofsage Winston, PAPosts: 998Member

    Originally posted by Zookz1

    Originally posted by Deathofsage


    Originally posted by Ozreth


    Originally posted by Zookz1

     

    Fair enough! I just think that making a game %99 soloable kills community, which is what the FFXI crowd wants, which is a majority of the population of FFXIV players.

    As long as the message gets across that SOME sort of change needs to be made to the leveling, thats whats important. 

     

    I don't totally disagree with you, but I will never again play a game where I have to look for a party or attempt to put one together for an entire play session (several hours) and have it end with me never getting anything accomplished. In XI and XIV, I have actually spent a week without a PT leaving me to solo for a miserable amount of XP.

    Been there, done that. Talking about XI, and not quite a week, but yeah. I've spent an hour forming a party only to have it fall apart or another party come and camp on us right after we started.

    FFXI needed Abyssea because it's extremely top heavy after being around for a decade. FFXIV is already extremely top heavy a year after release. How are they going to adopt a slower and steadier approach to progression at this point? It would ruin the game for newer players.

    XI did quite a bit with Level-sync, fields of valor (pre-bookburn), and campaign (campaign kicked in around 65). When ToAU colibri were full, there were a few people that went and merited at WoG's baby colibri, sinking with people appropriately geared for the level and somebody usually dualboxing a PL.

    If anything, all XI needed was making it so you could do more than one page an hour (but not, lol, in a freaking alliance) and more camps like baby colibri.. mobs that died fast and were fun to kill.

    FFXIV needs a more modern approach than what they currently have. The franchise as a whole, including XI, place emphasis on story. It seems silly that the main method of progression is to sit in one spot and grind monsters from 30-50. Shouldn't we be discovering things about the world and the inhabitants? Shouldn't I learn about the native creatures and the lands? The main storyline is laughably short and excessively boring in terms of gameplay. I know it's an extremely unpopular opinon amongst FFXI/XIV players, but I want to see a more quest driven (read: story driven) approach to progression, but the mere mention of having quested progressions sends the community into a seething rage.

    I haven't played XIV yet (._.) but XI wasn't quite 30-50, not before bookburns. Most camps lasted about 4-5 levels so it did have you moving around quite a bit, or usually disbanding and reforming with a new group.

    But I do definitely understand that point. I like party grinders, but I like it to be an adventure.

    Maybe people want an "oldschool" experience with XIV, but I have serious doubts as to whether that is something SE is willing to deliver. They already had/have that game in XI.

    Agreed. It's too bad too, because a lot of old school players, as we all know, would latch on to such an mmo.

     

    Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
    12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
    Placing bets Blizzard's "Titan" will be a wow-clone.

  • LexinLexin Ellenville, NYPosts: 702Member Uncommon

    I have no issues with taking my time getting to 50. I started just after Christmas and my highest job atm is 36 mrd.

    image

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon

    Wow, honestly this whole "we're leveling too fast" debate is actually making me want to play the game. I think people look at leveling too much as content, but that's me. I'd much prefer leveling to be either irrelevant or quick, and instead for the game itself to be filled with reasons to team up. Not because you HAVE to, but because you really want to.

    Leveling, for me, is just a matter of getting to the recommend level to be useful to people with my abilities and gear, I'd rather get that out of the way quickly so that I can get to the part where it's fun. If that's the direction FF14 is headed, I might have to take another look at this.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • dreamscaperdreamscaper Somewhere, NCPosts: 1,582Member Uncommon

    Repeat after me: FFXIV is not intended to be a hardcore game. They're targeting the more casual playbase that they missed with FFXI.

     

    Besides, leveling may be fast, but you don't have just one to level, you have over 15. Even if you max all of the combat classes quickly, that's not going to happen with the non-combat classes.

    <3

  • MuruganMurugan D, COPosts: 1,494Member

    Originally posted by dreamscaper

    Repeat after me: FFXIV is not intended to be a hardcore game. They're targeting the more casual playbase that they missed with FFXI.

     

    Besides, leveling may be fast, but you don't have just one to level, you have over 15. Even if you max all of the combat classes quickly, that's not going to happen with the non-combat classes.

    I really wish people would stop spreading this.

     

    This is twisting the words of people like Tanaka (the former director) who said he wanted everything to be accessible to all people, and the current directer who says that he wants content for all play types, into somehow meaning that the game is Casual only.

     

    The case could have been possibly made when Tanaka was still in charge, but Yoshida has made it very clear that this game will not be targetting Casual players only and is very much trying to recapture the XI playerbase as well.

  • unbrokenunbroken Alma, MIPosts: 57Member

    Originally posted by Murugan

    Originally posted by dreamscaper

    Repeat after me: FFXIV is not intended to be a hardcore game. They're targeting the more casual playbase that they missed with FFXI.

     

    Besides, leveling may be fast, but you don't have just one to level, you have over 15. Even if you max all of the combat classes quickly, that's not going to happen with the non-combat classes.

    I really wish people would stop spreading this.

     

    This is twisting the words of people like Tanaka (the former director) who said he wanted everything to be accessible to all people, and the current directer who says that he wants content for all play types, into somehow meaning that the game is Casual only.

     

    The case could have been possibly made when Tanaka was still in charge, but Yoshida has made it very clear that this game will not be targetting Casual players only and is very much trying to recapture the XI playerbase as well.

    There is a lot of difficulty involved, when it comes to trying to cater to both sides of the casual/hardcore "fence."  In fact, I've never seen it done, effectively, and while it's apparent how they're attempting to accomplish that, FFXIV is no exception.

     I enjoy FFXIV, for the most part, but at this point it lacks most of the "hardcore" elements, or at least what I considered "hardcore" about FFXI.  In FFXI, the game was more about group combat experiences.   Your character developed, over relatively long periods of time, and when you did get to endgame experiences, although they were great, you recognized that they were secondary to the experiences you had, while getting there.  Character progression and development is key in any rpg.  FFXI did it mainly with challenging group combat experiences, along with an excellent storyline and job system.  In FFXIV, there's very little need for this group-experienced progression, other than through endgame raids, and that's usually just gear hunting, not real character progression.  Endgame gear raids are fine, and eventually everyone gets to endgame, but I believe they do so with less satisfaction than they did in FFXI, because there's relatively little impedence to getting there.   That's the casual appeal they tried to impart for FFXIV if you ask me. There are a lot of people that want instant gratification.  You know, those people that somehow twisted the description of  satisfying group combat leveling into the now-dirty-word, "grind."  Developers want to "capture" that audience, simply because that demographic has been relatively absent to the MMORPG world, up until about the mid 2000s.  The problem is that they alienate another large portion of their base, when they do that.  A player base that is typically much more loyal and appreciative.  Not to mention, it can be damaging to the community, another element of FFXIV that doesn't live up to its predecessor.

    I don't want to bag it too much, because I think FFXIV has a lot to offer, and it seems to continually make leaps and bounds in getting better.  The whole attempt to get both "casual" and "hardcore" players was/is the cause for it's less-than-receptive state.   FFXIV does better than many, when it comes to trying to capture both player types, but I honestly don't recognize too much effort to recapture the "hardcore" FFXI player base, and in my opinion, that's because they tried too hard to lure casual players, through relatively-easy leveling and fast "progression."  I think the player, ironically, gets robbed of something, when things are handed to them so easily.

  • LukainLukain WestmeadPosts: 593Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Ozreth

    For all of us who think the super fas levelling in FFXIV is part of what is hurting the game, now is our chance to really let them know. Head over the the lodestone and take the new poll!

    Give us a slow levelling process that is actually fun and meaningful along the way and gives us a reason to make frieds and form a community : )

    https://secure.square-enix.com/enqt/e/FF14NPLAYERENQ03/html

     

    I don't think they can slow the leveling as the game is now , Most gamers level thru quests & FFXIV is in short supply of quests , you can do the same leves over & over which becomes boring , if they wanted to slow progression by say 50% they would need to add at least 300+ new quests  Not leves  but real quests . as it is now I have a lvl 20 caster &  a few 10+ crafters & I am bored allready , this is where games like WOW excel even in vanilla wow had just over 700 unique quests between lvl 1 -20 , FFXIV has maybe 100 .

     

     

     

     

     

  • LukainLukain WestmeadPosts: 593Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    Wow, honestly this whole "we're leveling too fast" debate is actually making me want to play the game. I think people look at leveling too much as content, but that's me. I'd much prefer leveling to be either irrelevant or quick, and instead for the game itself to be filled with reasons to team up. Not because you HAVE to, but because you really want to.

    Leveling, for me, is just a matter of getting to the recommend level to be useful to people with my abilities and gear, I'd rather get that out of the way quickly so that I can get to the part where it's fun. If that's the direction FF14 is headed, I might have to take another look at this.

    I seem to be your mirror half , while you enjoy the destination I enjoy the journey , I would rather level 10 character to 50 then spend month's sitting at lvl50  raiding dungeons  only to have an expansion come out a month later & make all that work grinding the best gear which is now just vendor trash ..

     

     

     

  • unbrokenunbroken Alma, MIPosts: 57Member

    Originally posted by Lukain

    Originally posted by Ozreth

    For all of us who think the super fas levelling in FFXIV is part of what is hurting the game, now is our chance to really let them know. Head over the the lodestone and take the new poll!

    Give us a slow levelling process that is actually fun and meaningful along the way and gives us a reason to make frieds and form a community : )

    https://secure.square-enix.com/enqt/e/FF14NPLAYERENQ03/html

     

    I don't think they can slow the leveling as the game is now , Most gamers level thru quests & FFXIV is in short supply of quests , you can do the same leves over & over which becomes boring , if they wanted to slow progression by say 50% they would need to add at least 300+ new quests  Not leves  but real quests . as it is now I have a lvl 20 caster &  a few 10+ crafters & I am bored allready , this is where games like WOW excel even in vanilla wow had just over 700 unique quests between lvl 1 -20 , FFXIV has maybe 100 .

     

     

     

     

     

    Most gamers that are used to the WoW questing style of play are used to leveling through quests (I realize other games do this, but WoW is the most prevalent example).  In some ways, I think the OP is talking about taking away some of the solo-ability of leveling.  Engaging group combat that requires time in effort and social interaction, throughout progreesion through levels; I think that's what a lot of old FFXI players want.  FFXI didn't have near as many quests as WoW, but a lot of the quests it did have were meaningful to the story, or were required to progress your character.  Quests were not necessarily there to provide the experience points one needed to advance in level.  To me, this style enhanced the "journey," as you called it in another post.  Challenging group combat and community interaction were sort of the "meat and potatoes" of the game, and quests/storyline, while still challenging, were sort of the "dessert." 

    Like you, I am much more about the journey than the conclusion.  I think that's just the way a good rpg should be.  Tell me a story that I'm a part of it, and let me immerse myself.   I suppose I could be a bit presumptuous, but I think your boredom, which you indicated would possibly be taken away with more quests, would be better quelled with some of that engaging group combat that takes some time.  The problem is that FFXIV isn't really set up either way, at this point, and there are a lot of players like yourself, bored, and a lot of other players that are sitting around with capped characters, which didn't take much effort to get, waiting for the next content patch that may add another couple days of new things to do.

    I enjoy a lot of the things in the game, but this is the main aspect that I hope they change, as well.

  • k11keeperk11keeper Kalama, WAPosts: 1,056Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    Wow, honestly this whole "we're leveling too fast" debate is actually making me want to play the game. I think people look at leveling too much as content, but that's me. I'd much prefer leveling to be either irrelevant or quick, and instead for the game itself to be filled with reasons to team up. Not because you HAVE to, but because you really want to.

    Leveling, for me, is just a matter of getting to the recommend level to be useful to people with my abilities and gear, I'd rather get that out of the way quickly so that I can get to the part where it's fun. If that's the direction FF14 is headed, I might have to take another look at this.

    This has always been my thoughts. I never particularly liked xp parties except when I lvled my rng in a static with my LS and that was because they were cool people, we did amazing damage, and it was fun hanging out. I feel bad for the people that just lvled in ffxi and that was their main source of content (you missed out on so much). For me xping is just a means of getting to where I want to be and being powerful enough to do the content I like. That was one of the reasons why CoP was my favorite expansion though I could take breaks from my xp partying and farming to actually do things other than lvling not on my main job.

    I just feel really bad for the folks that looked at xp as a form of content it's just sad, there was so much more to ffxi and I can't wait til there is tons of stuff to do in FFXIV so I can finally make the switch. A short lvling curve will be a bonus for me I want to do fun things.

  • GPrestigeGPrestige Guelph, ONPosts: 521Member

    I like the game but the leveling system is SO SO SO SO SO boring. Grind or Guildleve! I have a 6 months sub, and I'm hoping that by 2.0 the game has more to offer to level up.

    -Computer specs no one cares about: check.

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    ------------------------------------------------------------
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  • GajariGajari Halifax, NSPosts: 984Member

    Originally posted by Ozreth

    For all of us who think the super fas levelling in FFXIV is part of what is hurting the game, now is our chance to really let them know. Head over the the lodestone and take the new poll!

    Give us a slow levelling process that is actually fun and meaningful along the way and gives us a reason to make frieds and form a community : )

    https://secure.square-enix.com/enqt/e/FF14NPLAYERENQ03/html

     

    The level speed isn't even in the top 10 issues with this game. In fact, it's a non-issue, honestly.

  • DeathofsageDeathofsage Winston, PAPosts: 998Member

    -.-;;

    I just got my first powerleveled party yesterday. Here's how it worked. Our group had four maruaders, two healers, and a gladiator and a thatamurge.

    All we had to do was claim these mobs, making sure to turn their name red, and a level 50 Monk outside the party aoe'd them down with weaponskill. We got full experience as if we'd killed things ourselves.

    I got 5 levels in 2 horus? Probably faster.

    Most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.

    Now you might say, "If you don't want to be pl'd, you can leave the party." and I absolutely would have if I hadn't waited three hours for the invite.

    Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
    12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
    Placing bets Blizzard's "Titan" will be a wow-clone.

  • skydiver12skydiver12 burgundPosts: 432Member

    So? I still don't see how power leveling or the level speed due to power leveling is the issue.
    Actually you level way to slow solo without spoiled gear or overpowered builds due to your other classes already being lvl50.

    The real issue is,
    the leveling is horrid tedious and to group up, you wait to long, because grouping up just like that, most likely ends up PUNISHING one part of the group. (XP/Hour ratio)

    Just look at the lack of resurrect on spot skills. It's punishing you and even the "fool" who dies.
    There is a mob, you need two people to kill it. The other guy just died, now sit and wait for him to run back AND regen.
    The lack of rezing him (or he himself) does not make killing that fat Dodo "hard" or more "challenging". It makes it tedious. Result: You don't want to group up with people just like that.
    There is no room for failure and every failure of someone else is punishing YOU severely.
    It's not just about resurrecting dead party members or time limits for missions who discourage experimenting (because when you die 2 times you lack the time to finish it loosing ANY progress.
    This game does not reward risks, and severely punishes failed attempted risks. And it does so with the most punishment possible, a players active gaming time.
     
     
    And then the random never fitting difficult of content.
    Sitting debuffs out 5 minutes makes you wonder why the hell even bother with rank 5 solo (or attempt undermanned) quests?
    Make the quest 2 stars and have a complete snoozefest, for you can't fail at all? 'URGH
    There is never a sweetspot in difficult, you either zerg it, or snooze, or get one shotted. All is a chore.


    A good gaming experience: A huge field filled with monsters:

    Solo level with some challenge, kill a monster one at a time.
    Duo for the more dangerous monsters roaming the field. or faster kill the easier one's ONE at a TIME.
    Group up to gather monsters, kill multiple monster at once, maybe even AOE train.
    Some key member like healer / buffer or Tank leave, you continue to kill slower or not so many at once till replacements arrive


    FFXIV:
    Does not make it more challenging due to amount of enemies you COULD kill, it only scales with raw damage / hp of each monster. Which means you need constant healing or a tank to take the beating in a group.
    If you lacking one, sit and wait. You still fight one monster at a time. Now this isn't bad in itself, but it's the only way and requires the holy Trinity.

    Result: it takes long to build "the perfect" group. They need to run long to be worth the time.


    Unless they get that sorted, XIV will not thrive as a group centric mmo, nor solo. Currently it fails at both. As other's have said among many other core issues, leveling speed is not the issue, as it is the size of a DODO.


  • TJCATJCA Spring Hill, FLPosts: 27Member

    Originally posted by skydiver12

    So? I still don't see how power leveling or the level speed due to power leveling is the issue.

    Actually you level way to slow solo without spoiled gear or overpowered builds due to your other classes already being lvl50.

    The real issue is,

    the leveling is horrid tedious and to group up, you wait to long, because grouping up just like that, most likely ends up PUNISHING one part of the group. (XP/Hour ratio)

     

    Just look at the lack of resurrect on spot skills. It's punishing you and even the "fool" who dies.

    There is a mob, you need two people to kill it. The other guy just died, now sit and wait for him to run back AND regen.

    Raise is a cross-class skill that you learn from conjurer, at level 18 I believe.

    FFXIV is a character building game, the same way every FF pretty much is. You build your way up, both in gear, and in class abilities. It's not at all impossible to do solo, but it's a lot easier if you find a linkshell of friends. Admittingly, this is a little tougher for new players, since there aren't that many right now, but there are some really nice, helpful linkshells out there.

    The lack of rezing him (or he himself) does not make killing that fat Dodo "hard" or more "challenging". It makes it tedious. Result: You don't want to group up with people just like that.

    There is no room for failure and every failure of someone else is punishing YOU severely.

    It's not just about resurrecting dead party members or time limits for missions who discourage experimenting (because when you die 2 times you lack the time to finish it loosing ANY progress.

    This game does not reward risks, and severely punishes failed attempted risks. And it does so with the most punishment possible, a players active gaming time.
                

    If you really feel like waiting for other people to return or other people failing punishes you, then you don't understand the spirit of "team play." Yes, one person's failure punishes the group, and therefore, one should try not to fail. But you take it with patience when someone does, because the next time, it might be you who fails. In this way, you learn to work together and become better players.


    "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." (Abraham Lincoln)

     

    And then the random never fitting difficult of content.

    Sitting debuffs out 5 minutes makes you wonder why the hell even bother with rank 5 solo (or attempt undermanned) quests?

    Make the quest 2 stars and have a complete snoozefest, for you can't fail at all? 'URGH

    There is never a sweetspot in difficult, you either zerg it, or snooze, or get one shotted. All is a chore.



    Trying more difficult content with a death penelty is an intended risk. Some of the players felt that it was not risky enough and wanted xp loss on death. Yoshi-P was actually favorable to that idea, but knew it wouldn't be popular to a lot of players, so a debuff was used instead.

    As for the stars, each one after the first raises the difficulty by 3 levels. Meaning if you are doing a 1-10 level leve, 3 stars is level 6, while 5 is level 12. With no materia melded to your gear, doing a leve close to your level is about right. With materia melded gear, it becomes easier. How do you get that? Either level the necessary crafting yourself, earn enough money to buy it, or make friends willing to do it for you. The last suggestion is recommended for the quickest way.

    The fact that it takes time to build up a character is one of the reasons I think leveling is too fast. If you run right past the levels, then there becomes less of an emphasis to stay in the right level gear, since you are going to outlevel it anyway. Then the leveling experience becomes somewhat like you describe. Of course, then it just becomes the responsibility of the player to stay in the right type of gear, if they want a more enjoyable experience.

     

    A good gaming experience: A huge field filled with monsters:

    Solo level with some challenge, kill a monster one at a time. Personally I like taking on more, but nothing is stopping you from doing this.

    Duo for the more dangerous monsters roaming the field. or faster kill the easier one's ONE at a TIME. Again, I fail to understand what in FFXIV prevents this.

    Group up to gather monsters, kill multiple monster at once, maybe even AOE train.

    Some key member like healer / buffer or Tank leave, you continue to kill slower or not so many at once till replacements arrive.

    FFXIV:

    Does not make it more challenging due to amount of enemies you COULD kill, it only scales with raw damage / hp of each monster. Which means you need constant healing or a tank to take the beating in a group.

    If you lacking one, sit and wait. You still fight one monster at a time. Now this isn't bad in itself, but it's the only way and requires the holy Trinity. ? You don't need a tank or healer in the field. With cross-class abilities, you can get healing and defensive buffs for yourself. It would make it easier to have a tank and healer in a pick up group, so roles are more defined, but it's not required.

    Result: it takes long to build "the perfect" group. They need to run long to be worth the time.

    Unless they get that sorted, XIV will not thrive as a group centric mmo, nor solo. Currently it fails at both. As other's have said among many other core issues, leveling speed is not the issue, as it is the size of a DODO.

     

    FFXIV might not be as group-centric as past mmos, but it's still very group-centric, much more than many of the currently released mmos. While it's possible to solo, and there are some who enjoy doing so, it's far easier if you make good friends on the game and help each other out. What FFXIV is, is community-centric. It's not perfect, and sure we have our bad apples along with the good like any mmo, but the community here is a lot nicer than a lot of mmos.

    What it like sounds to me, is that you don't really know how to play the game. You could research some sites, but again, it's better if you make friends who will "show you the ropes." FFXIV is not an instant gratification game. Much of it's harder, more tedious aspects are not required, but certain things, such as leveling conjurer enough to get it's healing skill, are recommended.

     

     

  • skydiver12skydiver12 burgundPosts: 432Member

    Originally posted by TJCA




    Raise is a cross-class skill that you learn from conjurer, at level 18 I believe.
    FFXIV is a character building game, the same way every FF pretty much is. You build your way up, both in gear, and in class abilities. It's not at all impossible to do solo, but it's a lot easier if you find a linkshell of friends. Admittingly, this is a little tougher for new players, since there aren't that many right now, but there are some really nice, helpful linkshells out there.

    Considering the circumstances i don't need to tell you excuses and and wishful thinking does not make a better game.

    Leveling a conjurer to 18 does not compare to a selfrez on spot function every half hour, neither does it help in the beginning. Another pointless excuse is the part about character building. Level every job to 50 would be more appropriate if you want to make your point. Needles to say if the content is only viable by multiclassing mandatory skills, and by mandatory i mean all classes, and especially THM/CON, your game lack distinction in classes (might as well have none) and variety of gameplay. Oh wait - that is EXCATLY they try to fix.

    It's not about the possibility to multiclass, which is great, it becomes a failure if it requires you to certain multiclass builds (skills). Enemies +10 levels which kill themselves in 5 hits because you mixed GLA + THM buffs should not happen as much as on level enemies who one shot you after 25 seconds because you approached a simplistic class design without mixing a buff class into it. E.G. PURE NONE MAGIC FIGHTER. FFXIV just offers both EXTREME negative ends to the experience.

    A game's bread and butter, e.g. just solo hitting monsters should work without handhold of a "good" Linkshell.

    Originally posted by TJCA



             
    If you really feel like waiting for other people to return or other people failing punishes you, then you don't understand the spirit of "team play." Yes, one person's failure punishes the group, and therefore, one should try not to fail. But you take it with patience when someone does, because the next time, it might be you who fails. In this way, you learn to work together and become better players.

    "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." (Abraham Lincoln)

    I actually think like you, however I'm a realist. It's like putting down 1000$ in the middle of a public street and then claiming no one will take it because we are all honest people. It does not work. Punish the more experienced player to much and you get something perceived as elitism. I don't feel the need to discuss this any further, because a simple look at FFXIV since sep 2010 proves me once people got out of the lvl20 they did not random group anymore. Because after failing a few leves, you learn to avoid other people instead of "team play". Your defense is unnecessary, SE realized it and let you change the leve star difficult after starting it, they even changed the rez skill down to lvl18. But this is not enough.

    Originally posted by TJCA



    Trying more difficult content with a death penelty is an intended risk. Some of the players felt that it was not risky enough and wanted xp loss on death. Yoshi-P was actually favorable to that idea, but knew it wouldn't be popular to a lot of players, so a debuff was used instead.
    As for the stars, each one after the first raises the difficulty by 3 levels. Meaning if you are doing a 1-10 level leve, 3 stars is level 6, while 5 is level 12. With no materia melded to your gear, doing a leve close to your level is about right. With materia melded gear, it becomes easier. How do you get that? Either level the necessary crafting yourself, earn enough money to buy it, or make friends willing to do it for you. The last suggestion is recommended for the quickest way.

    Actually XP loss is a milder penalty than the debuff. At least i could start <playing> and regain those XP, the debuff makes me plain simply go AFK and sit it out. (e.g. not play at all). And in term of leves with a timelimit even lose XP as a secondary effect due my time running out.

    What's more harsh, make you start over or letting you do nothing at all and watch your mission fail? For me the later. XP loss appears more harsh because you SEE your immediate loss. No one sees a bar where he can see the time accumulating how long he just sat on the ground due to the debuff since character creation and how many xp he lost due to a failed time limit.


    Originally posted by TJCA


    The fact that it takes time to build up a character is one of the reasons I think leveling is too fast. If you run right past the levels, then there becomes less of an emphasis to stay in the right level gear, since you are going to outlevel it anyway. Then the leveling experience becomes somewhat like you describe. Of course, then it just becomes the responsibility of the player to stay in the right type of gear, if they want a more enjoyable experience.

    You don't need a tank or healer in the field. With cross-class abilities, you can get healing and defensive buffs for yourself. It would make it easier to have a tank and healer in a pick up group, so roles are more defined, but it's not required.



    A wrong assumption. My "experience covers solid 6 months of playtime with different characters on different servers. Including power builds with THM / CON selfbuffs and heals by leveling nearly all combat classes at the same level range, to new characters focusing on a gameplay type like MA/LNC/GLA.

    Everything becomes mandatory once you get CON/THM buffs yourself, and almost impossible when you stay clear of those two. It really doesn't matter whenever these class buffs are still broken even after SE did tone them down or the monster scaling has an inherit flaw and thus fails to provide a reasonable challenge.

    Yoshi claims to have understood that but i have my doubt and reserve my final judgment till 2.0.


    And roles are certainly required. If you can self heal yourself as a Tanking Marauder you certainly don't do monster worthy of a group. Whenever your healing comes from two multiclasses PULGs or one dedicated CON healer does not matter. You still need it. Group content is alway centered around one or for arguments sake three monsters which hit hard and endure a lot.

    If you can't do any group contend just with pure damage builds and some relaxed healing or tanking you get what FFXIV has. And it's not pretty. (Again the fundamental design flaw about multiclassing posibility = THM/CON enforced strikes again). The issue is not beeing able to equip a heal it's that the content requires you to do it. Open world dungeons or places should have the possibility for people to choose and make both group setups viable.

    If Linkshells would have been able to minimize this issue, we wouldn't be where we are, now would we?

    Originally posted by TJCA



    FFXIV might not be as group-centric as past mmos, but it's still very group-centric, much more than many of the currently released mmos. While it's possible to solo, and there are some who enjoy doing so, it's far easier if you make good friends on the game and help each other out. What FFXIV is, is community-centric. It's not perfect, and sure we have our bad apples along with the good like any mmo, but the community here is a lot nicer than a lot of mmos.
    What it like sounds to me, is that you don't really know how to play the game. You could research some sites, but again, it's better if you make friends who will "show you the ropes." FFXIV is not an instant gratification game. Much of it's harder, more tedious aspects are not required, but certain things, such as leveling conjurer enough to get it's healing skill, are recommended.

    The same old pathetic excuses and by that very ignorant statement you proved the FFXIV community is anything else than you claim. Full of elitism snops who think anyone who does not like FFXIV current state is either incapable of basic key pressing, in dire need of magic advices about the "deep secrets" of THM/CON multiclassing or just wants instant gratification.

    Now the truth is different. It's boring and tedious and way to EASY when metagaming, due it's failed basic understanding of class design, world design and group contend design. And a good LS does not make up for that, i can have friends and a good "guild", "Legion", "Clan", "Alliance" anywhere else without a bad game design.


    YOU fail to understand that, SE failed to understand that. Unless SE gets it with 2.0 it's not gonna work. In contrary to what blind defenders claim, we want to make FFXIV work, can't say that for people with a "MY LS ROCKS!!11" attitude.

  • TJCATJCA Spring Hill, FLPosts: 27Member

    Originally posted by skydiver12

    The same old pathetic excuses and by that very ignorant statement you proved the FFXIV community is anything else than you claim. Full of elitism snops who think anyone who does not like FFXIV current state is either incapable of basic key pressing, in dire need of magic advices about the "deep secrets" of THM/CON multiclassing or just wants instant gratification.

     

    Now the truth is different. It's boring and tedious and way to EASY when metagaming, due it's failed basic understanding of class design, world design and group contend design. And a good LS does not make up for that, i can have friends and a good "guild", "Legion", "Clan", "Alliance" anywhere else without a bad game design.



    YOU fail to understand that, SE failed to understand that. Unless SE gets it with 2.0 it's not gonna work. In contrary to what blind defenders claim, we want to make FFXIV work, can't say that for people with a "MY LS ROCKS!!11" attitude.

    I'm not going to pick through your whole post, because it will just turn into some kind of mud slinging fest. Your original post does come across as someone who doesn't understand the game, and I'm not convinced you do even now. Just because the game doesn't operate like you want it to, doesn't make it bad.

    The unfortunate truth is, players asked for more defined roles in the game, so they are emerging. But it still isn't required to make a party work on a regular map. Just because things aren't dying as easily as you want them to, doesn't make it broken.

    But if you think I'm making assumptions about you, only having your original post to go off of, I guess we are even. I'm not part of a linkshell. I join up with groups who ask for help, and solo a good deal of the rest of the time. Everyone I have met has been very friendly and helpful. Sure they get clickesh sometimes, but I don't worry over that sort of thing. It takes all kinds of people to make a world.

    But to be honest, if I met up with you, I might not be jumping to join up with you either. You don't come across as a very flexible player. Yoshi-P said he was making a game that rewarded innovative play, and thats just what I have found to be true. I have enjoyed experimenting with the classes, and have not in the least been bored by the game, or frustated with it. My issue is there still needs to be more content, but I'm happy with the games progress. However, I would not say at all, that the game isn't in need of more fixing.

    If I did meet up with you, however, I can assure you I wouldn't treat you the way you have indicated. I'm very patient with failure. Any but my own that is. :P And I wish there was xp loss too, instead of the timer. But I often do not let the timer stop me, and I commonly fight with the debuff going. It depends on whether I have a chance or no chance. I'm a risk taker, but not suicidal. :)

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