More and more I think, "Gee....I hope GW2 isn't so hard that I can't play it." I mean, I don't play FPS games, I'm not a champion (or even moderately good) at twitch mechanics, I'm a 48 year old female who loves and enjoys games, but I don't enjoy them when they are SO "challenging" that they feel more like working than playing. I get very impatient with games that try to make me work in my free time, but don't pay me to do it. Know what I mean?
Do I want a game that's so easy that it's boring? Definitely not. I enjoy a little challenge. But probably not as much as what it SOUNDS like some gamers on these forums "enjoy." Or at least they brag that they enjoy a challenge. Might just be macho bullshit, I don't know. Some challenge is definitely good, but as I said....I worry more and more about whether ArenaNet will make this game playable for the LESS THAN tournament equipped player, you know....just the average Joe (or Jane as it were).
GW1 became so difficult for me at some point that I never finished it. I just wasn't good enough at managing my heroes and henchmen, couldn't seem to get up the courage to ask for groups, and after dying about 10 times on ONE particular quest....I just gave up. I'm hoping that GW2 will be a little more forgiving than GW1 was, but I guess we'll see.
Dodge to me sounds like an easily incorporated mechanic. I don't think I'll have problems with that specifically. I'm just looking at the challenge level of the game as a whole. I guess time alone will tell.
I am unsure about how often you can dodge in GW2 they put some kind of resource and CD on it.
In Dragon nest you can and will dodge (blink whatever) quite often and that is part of the gameplay of games like that that I like alot.
But I need to wait and see how much GW2 really lets you dodge. If their timing is off it will suffer from the "too good to use" phenomenon.
There is a resource controling how often you can dodge. And it requires timing and is unforgiving for missed timing and/or if the user is unskilled. I played Dragon Nest(and gave up on it) and You can dodge frequently, but it has a latency issue where most of the time your just dodging for the animation. Dragon Nest was fun and added in dodging fairly decently, but it's not technically a standard MMORPG Like what I think A-Net is shooting for. it's a heavily instanced based dungeon action crawler which was kinda innovative, but then came the dreaded cash shop, horribly unbalanced PvP tipped by said cash shop and became a grindfest. I probably will dip in and out of it to play because I do like it to a certain extent, but at it's core, it's meh.
The reason I think Dodging is so important in GW2 is because of how it's introduced and how effective it is and rewarding it is to use. Just like a well timed Ultimate in LoL, your dodge can mean the diffrence between you winning and you loosing. Which is why it has a resource and such a high cost.
More and more I think, "Gee....I hope GW2 isn't so hard that I can't play it." I mean, I don't play FPS games, I'm not a champion (or even moderately good) at twitch mechanics, I'm a 48 year old female who loves and enjoys games, but I don't enjoy them when they are SO "challenging" that they feel more like working than playing. I get very impatient with games that try to make me work in my free time, but don't pay me to do it. Know what I mean?
Do I want a game that's so easy that it's boring? Definitely not. I enjoy a little challenge. But probably not as much as what it SOUNDS like some gamers on these forums "enjoy." Or at least they brag that they enjoy a challenge. Might just be macho bullshit, I don't know. Some challenge is definitely good, but as I said....I worry more and more about whether ArenaNet will make this game playable for the LESS THAN tournament equipped player, you know....just the average Joe (or Jane as it were).
GW1 became so difficult for me at some point that I never finished it. I just wasn't good enough at managing my heroes and henchmen, couldn't seem to get up the courage to ask for groups, and after dying about 10 times on ONE particular quest....I just gave up. I'm hoping that GW2 will be a little more forgiving than GW1 was, but I guess we'll see.
Dodge to me sounds like an easily incorporated mechanic. I don't think I'll have problems with that specifically. I'm just looking at the challenge level of the game as a whole. I guess time alone will tell.
the more fanboys try to defend a horribly contrived and poorly implemented mechanic meant to mask the same mmo combat underpinnings that have existed for over a decade, the more I fear how this game is going to play.
I may be wrong, but I think it was an insult aimed at you being too old to adapt. Its the mmorpg.com mantra: when in doubt, take offense.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
the more fanboys try to defend a horribly contrived and poorly implemented mechanic meant to mask the same mmo combat underpinnings that have existed for over a decade, the more I fear how this game is going to play.
No need to fear and no need to play either. We "fanboys" have it covered for you. Call it part of the service offered specially for those who dwell below bridges.
Originally posted by just1opinion Originally posted by DannyGlover
Originally posted by just1opinion I don't get it.
I may be wrong, but I think it was an insult aimed at you being too old to adapt. Its the mmorpg.com mantra: when in doubt, take offense.
Ahhh. LOL Well I have a great sense of humor, so now it just gives me the lulz when previously it had me scratching my head. So thank you. hehe glad I could clear it up for ya
Oh and to clear up a couple things regarding your original post. No, this game is not going to be hard to figure out. Just map your dodge button to the spacebar and you will do just fine
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Let me sum this up in one word why people think that this is unneccesary mechcanic, "WoW" why wow? cause it comes down to what people are USE to the trinity and are scared of something new so they throw spears at it, why dont you see poeple in the videos using the dodge mechcanic much? because there not use to it plain and simple... come release/beta players will come to realise that GW2 won't need the trinity and the dodge mechanic is very important. its a very small change but poeple hate change... and i for one welcome it with VERY open arms.
Originally posted by Dekarx12 its a very small change but poeple hate change... and i for one welcome it with VERY open arms.
So what are you saying? That you're not a poeple or you're above poeple? I'm just trying to follow your logic, thanks!
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Originally posted by Dekarx12 Let me sum this up in one word why people/OP think that this is unneccesary mechcanic, "WoW" why wow? cause it comes down to what people are USE to the trinity and are scared of something new so they throw spears at it, why dont you see poeple in the videos using the dodge mechcanic much? because there not use to it plain and simple... come release/beta players will come to realise that GW2 won't need the trinity and the dodge mechanic is very important. its a very small change but poeple hate change... and i for one welcome it with VERY open arms.
And we have a winner.
Originally posted by maskmurda I await trolls who only read title and post those troll like comments.
I wish there were class specific dodge animations, thiefs doing the ninja roll, warriors perhaps some sprint like movement animation instead, elementalists somekind of wind-step or levitation etc. I'm not a huge fan of full plate quys doing ninja rolls or some half naked robe wearing wizards rolling around pretending to be ninjas
This is nothing that would affect my decisions about playing the game, it just makes me smile a bit in the wrong kind of way when I see some certain classes doing the "dodge" :P
Anyway, L2D shouldnt take long generally speaking, after the game gets launched...
I await trolls who only read title and post those troll like comments.
Tiny text made me grin.
You have to understand that a dodge mechanic that isn't automated (and not merely something that happens depending on a stat) is new to most RPG gamers. Some of us have played games more action oriented, and we'll know what to expect. It's also a lot of why GW2 is so appealing. But you need only look at the most lucrative MMO currently (WoW) to see what people are used to. It's not dodging.
It's going to take a while for people to realize they don't have to simply stand in the fire, or take that bullet. But they'll get it eventually. I can understand people's upset when they see press videos and feel that they are more deserving of the beta experience, because they wouldn't suck at it. But also keep in mind that they've only had access to the game for a short amount of time.
I'm sure all of us, even the most "actiony" among us, will have to break some bad habits when GW2 rolls around. No one will be there to save you but yourself, it will be a change of pace to have to care about how much damage you're taking and from where, rather than just assume your armor and the dude healing you will keep you going.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Its really a multitude of things with the press people. Some did it to add some comedy. Some did it to irritate people. Some just plain suck. Some I'm guessing where just to excited to really care. Others just wanted to film as much content as possible to make the most money regardless of the quality of the content because even if it was teeth grinding bad we all soaked up as many vids as we could.
Once the game goes live people will learn how to dodge or stop playing.
As far as Yogs goes does anyone really take them seriously as gamers? I know I dont and I love thier videos. But I watch them as comedians and dont concider them gamers. Thats where I give TB some credit. He openly admits when he sucks at a game.
As far as Yogs goes does anyone really take them seriously as gamers? I know I dont and I love thier videos. But I watch them as comedians and dont concider them gamers. Thats where I give TB some credit. He openly admits when he sucks at a game.
I completely agree with this statement, but I think the thing most viewers have a problem with is the fact the ZAM guy is complaining about the dungeon, saying things like it's inbalanced, instead of just "I suck at this, so bear with me".
I love waching the Yogscast videos too. I also do not consider them gamers, as I don't think they really consider themselves gamers. But they also took some flack for a comment they made on Reddit about the dungeon crawl as well.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
IT will be different for me, as I play RTS stuff, and MMOs mostly...I don't play a lot of single player RPG with that mechanism. It won't be a big deal, but different. I think it will make it more exciting, as I usually play a range character anymore.
Once again, this is an example of a thread which makes me fear for this game's community.
What? How does this change the community? Maybe you just have a constant view about the community and you go out on limbs trying to prove your view? Did you even read the main post?
Once again, this is an example of a thread which makes me fear for this game's community.
What? How does this change the community? Maybe you just have a constant view about the community and you go out on limbs trying to prove your view? Did you even read the main post?
I'm hearing a lot of elitism, and every time someone brings up a criticism about GW2 it's always because they don't understand Anet's design philosophy or they're just bad players. According to them, it's never because there may be real issues. For example:
"I think a lot of players who only play MMOS are oblivious to dodging otherwise it is hard to believe that people who are gamers in general wouldn't pay attention to dodge button."
"Yeah, a lot of the beta players are really terrible. I love the Yogscast coverage because they are entertaining to listen to, but my god, the guy who does the filming refuses to learn how to play! "
"What I realised is that the popular MMORPG's have caused this lack of ability to be aware and learn to adapt within something new. "
"the circles of death have been part of mmorpg's for years yet individuals still don't seem to wrap the idea around their head to MOVE out of it....These people will be weeded out because of dieing so easy all the time in GW2 or they will stick around and torture anyone that joins their groups."
"The problem is that most of those videos are made by people who tried the game for the first time. After years of static holy trinity combat it's not easy to embrace something this different so quickly. However, I must admit I've seen some really terrible players who click skills with mouse, just stand..."
"And I've seen the visual cues in Guild Wars 2. But like with the "GUILD WARS 2 MUST HAVE THE HOLY TRINITIES!" people, you'll get those who're just unfamiliar with this. (This is why I don't know if turning the asura into Exodar-borne gnomes was such a good idea, because I'm unsure whether they'll grab any WoW fans anyway due to how different GW2 is.)"
"Guild Wars 2 doesn't look particularly forgiving to players who just want to stand there and mash spell rotations all day."
"If you play this game like a rigid, holy trinity game: You're going to die. Horribly."
"Guild Wars 2 will require both dodging and role switching. These are two things that most MMO players are completely unaccustomed to."
"I hope these things weed out those individuals who refuse to learn to adapt to mechanics torturing and holding hostage those who join a party with them. "
"Let me sum this up in one word why people think that this is unneccesary mechcanic, "WoW" why wow? cause it comes down to what people are USE to the trinity and are scared of something new so they throw spears at it, why dont you see poeple in the videos using the dodge mechcanic much? because there not use to it plain and simple... come release/beta players will come to realise that GW2 won't need the trinity and the dodge mechanic is very important. its a very small change but poeple hate change... and i for one welcome it with VERY open arms."
"I blame games like Rift, for making players like him. "
-------
If you think every other game is so superior and that those who play those other games are somehow inferior to you, I simply do not want to play with you.
Thing is, the guy in the ZAM video actually admitted to not really knowing what he was doing, yet people are still jumping all over him because he said that a dungeon "might" need some additional tuning. For the record, it did look like a pain in the ass for classes that rely on channeling abilities.
"I blame games like Rift, for making players like him. "
-------
If you think every other game is so superior and that those who play those other games are somehow inferior to you, I simply do not want to play with you.
Thing is, the guy in the ZAM video actually admitted to not really knowing what he was doing, yet people are still jumping all over him because he said that a dungeon "might" need some additional tuning. For the record, it did look like a pain in the ass for classes that rely on channeling abilities.
SuperX is back with avengence.
And for your infomation, I myself play Rift. Just failed to complete a Raid a couple hours ago, full of other players that just weren't geared for it... What point was I trying to make again?
Oh yeah, the ZAM guy. I made a joke about Rift because it's so easy to create a macro in that game where you simply can just stand there and press 1 button, exactly what that person was doing. He didn't play the game the way it is intended to be played and then blamed the game, for his poor performance, saying it needs balancing (in other words saying it needs to be idiot proof). So no, I don't blame the community for calling him out on his hurrendous "play by play commentary". And for the record, a Sceptor wielding Elementalist is incredibly mobile, even when channeling.
Try to get your facts straight with me, next time.
Comments
"I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."
There is a resource controling how often you can dodge. And it requires timing and is unforgiving for missed timing and/or if the user is unskilled. I played Dragon Nest(and gave up on it) and You can dodge frequently, but it has a latency issue where most of the time your just dodging for the animation. Dragon Nest was fun and added in dodging fairly decently, but it's not technically a standard MMORPG Like what I think A-Net is shooting for. it's a heavily instanced based dungeon action crawler which was kinda innovative, but then came the dreaded cash shop, horribly unbalanced PvP tipped by said cash shop and became a grindfest. I probably will dip in and out of it to play because I do like it to a certain extent, but at it's core, it's meh.
The reason I think Dodging is so important in GW2 is because of how it's introduced and how effective it is and rewarding it is to use. Just like a well timed Ultimate in LoL, your dodge can mean the diffrence between you winning and you loosing. Which is why it has a resource and such a high cost.
I don't get it.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
the more fanboys try to defend a horribly contrived and poorly implemented mechanic meant to mask the same mmo combat underpinnings that have existed for over a decade, the more I fear how this game is going to play.
I may be wrong, but I think it was an insult aimed at you being too old to adapt. Its the mmorpg.com mantra: when in doubt, take offense.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
No need to fear and no need to play either. We "fanboys" have it covered for you. Call it part of the service offered specially for those who dwell below bridges.
Ahhh. LOL Well I have a great sense of humor, so now it just gives me the lulz when previously it had me scratching my head. So thank you.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I may be wrong, but I think it was an insult aimed at you being too old to adapt. Its the mmorpg.com mantra: when in doubt, take offense.
Ahhh. LOL Well I have a great sense of humor, so now it just gives me the lulz when previously it had me scratching my head. So thank you.
hehe glad I could clear it up for ya
Oh and to clear up a couple things regarding your original post. No, this game is not going to be hard to figure out. Just map your dodge button to the spacebar and you will do just fine
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Let me sum this up in one word why people think that this is unneccesary mechcanic, "WoW" why wow? cause it comes down to what people are USE to the trinity and are scared of something new so they throw spears at it, why dont you see poeple in the videos using the dodge mechcanic much? because there not use to it plain and simple... come release/beta players will come to realise that GW2 won't need the trinity and the dodge mechanic is very important. its a very small change but poeple hate change... and i for one welcome it with VERY open arms.
So what are you saying? That you're not a poeple or you're above poeple? I'm just trying to follow your logic, thanks!
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
And we have a winner.
I wish there were class specific dodge animations, thiefs doing the ninja roll, warriors perhaps some sprint like movement animation instead, elementalists somekind of wind-step or levitation etc. I'm not a huge fan of full plate quys doing ninja rolls or some half naked robe wearing wizards rolling around pretending to be ninjas
This is nothing that would affect my decisions about playing the game, it just makes me smile a bit in the wrong kind of way when I see some certain classes doing the "dodge" :P
Anyway, L2D shouldnt take long generally speaking, after the game gets launched...
Surprised no one has posted the Skilled Warrior PvE video from the press event yet.
For anyone who hasn't seen it. Gives you a bit of an idea of how combat should look.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Surprised no one posted this noob who should have rebound his dodge button to the "1" key. Maybe the game needs to be balanced around guys like him.
Tiny text made me grin.
You have to understand that a dodge mechanic that isn't automated (and not merely something that happens depending on a stat) is new to most RPG gamers. Some of us have played games more action oriented, and we'll know what to expect. It's also a lot of why GW2 is so appealing. But you need only look at the most lucrative MMO currently (WoW) to see what people are used to. It's not dodging.
It's going to take a while for people to realize they don't have to simply stand in the fire, or take that bullet. But they'll get it eventually. I can understand people's upset when they see press videos and feel that they are more deserving of the beta experience, because they wouldn't suck at it. But also keep in mind that they've only had access to the game for a short amount of time.
I'm sure all of us, even the most "actiony" among us, will have to break some bad habits when GW2 rolls around. No one will be there to save you but yourself, it will be a change of pace to have to care about how much damage you're taking and from where, rather than just assume your armor and the dude healing you will keep you going.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
That ZAM video is so painful to watch. I can't watch more than 10 minutes at a time.
I pray to the Tyrian gods every day that that does not happen. It's about time we have a hard MMO game again.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I blame games like Rift, for making players like him.
Its really a multitude of things with the press people. Some did it to add some comedy. Some did it to irritate people. Some just plain suck. Some I'm guessing where just to excited to really care. Others just wanted to film as much content as possible to make the most money regardless of the quality of the content because even if it was teeth grinding bad we all soaked up as many vids as we could.
Once the game goes live people will learn how to dodge or stop playing.
As far as Yogs goes does anyone really take them seriously as gamers? I know I dont and I love thier videos. But I watch them as comedians and dont concider them gamers. Thats where I give TB some credit. He openly admits when he sucks at a game.
I completely agree with this statement, but I think the thing most viewers have a problem with is the fact the ZAM guy is complaining about the dungeon, saying things like it's inbalanced, instead of just "I suck at this, so bear with me".
I love waching the Yogscast videos too. I also do not consider them gamers, as I don't think they really consider themselves gamers. But they also took some flack for a comment they made on Reddit about the dungeon crawl as well.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
IT will be different for me, as I play RTS stuff, and MMOs mostly...I don't play a lot of single player RPG with that mechanism. It won't be a big deal, but different. I think it will make it more exciting, as I usually play a range character anymore.
Once again, this is an example of a thread which makes me fear for this game's community.
What? How does this change the community? Maybe you just have a constant view about the community and you go out on limbs trying to prove your view? Did you even read the main post?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation
I'm hearing a lot of elitism, and every time someone brings up a criticism about GW2 it's always because they don't understand Anet's design philosophy or they're just bad players. According to them, it's never because there may be real issues. For example:
"I think a lot of players who only play MMOS are oblivious to dodging otherwise it is hard to believe that people who are gamers in general wouldn't pay attention to dodge button."
"Yeah, a lot of the beta players are really terrible. I love the Yogscast coverage because they are entertaining to listen to, but my god, the guy who does the filming refuses to learn how to play! "
"What I realised is that the popular MMORPG's have caused this lack of ability to be aware and learn to adapt within something new. "
"the circles of death have been part of mmorpg's for years yet individuals still don't seem to wrap the idea around their head to MOVE out of it....These people will be weeded out because of dieing so easy all the time in GW2 or they will stick around and torture anyone that joins their groups."
"The problem is that most of those videos are made by people who tried the game for the first time. After years of static holy trinity combat it's not easy to embrace something this different so quickly. However, I must admit I've seen some really terrible players who click skills with mouse, just stand..."
"And I've seen the visual cues in Guild Wars 2. But like with the "GUILD WARS 2 MUST HAVE THE HOLY TRINITIES!" people, you'll get those who're just unfamiliar with this. (This is why I don't know if turning the asura into Exodar-borne gnomes was such a good idea, because I'm unsure whether they'll grab any WoW fans anyway due to how different GW2 is.)"
"Guild Wars 2 doesn't look particularly forgiving to players who just want to stand there and mash spell rotations all day."
"If you play this game like a rigid, holy trinity game: You're going to die. Horribly."
"Guild Wars 2 will require both dodging and role switching. These are two things that most MMO players are completely unaccustomed to."
"I hope these things weed out those individuals who refuse to learn to adapt to mechanics torturing and holding hostage those who join a party with them. "
"Let me sum this up in one word why people think that this is unneccesary mechcanic, "WoW" why wow? cause it comes down to what people are USE to the trinity and are scared of something new so they throw spears at it, why dont you see poeple in the videos using the dodge mechcanic much? because there not use to it plain and simple... come release/beta players will come to realise that GW2 won't need the trinity and the dodge mechanic is very important. its a very small change but poeple hate change... and i for one welcome it with VERY open arms."
"Surprised no one posted this noob who should have rebound his dodge button to the "1" key. Maybe the game needs to be balanced around guys like him.
"
"I blame games like Rift, for making players like him.
"
-------
If you think every other game is so superior and that those who play those other games are somehow inferior to you, I simply do not want to play with you.
Thing is, the guy in the ZAM video actually admitted to not really knowing what he was doing, yet people are still jumping all over him because he said that a dungeon "might" need some additional tuning. For the record, it did look like a pain in the ass for classes that rely on channeling abilities.
SuperX is back with avengence.
And for your infomation, I myself play Rift. Just failed to complete a Raid a couple hours ago, full of other players that just weren't geared for it... What point was I trying to make again?
Oh yeah, the ZAM guy. I made a joke about Rift because it's so easy to create a macro in that game where you simply can just stand there and press 1 button, exactly what that person was doing. He didn't play the game the way it is intended to be played and then blamed the game, for his poor performance, saying it needs balancing (in other words saying it needs to be idiot proof). So no, I don't blame the community for calling him out on his hurrendous "play by play commentary". And for the record, a Sceptor wielding Elementalist is incredibly mobile, even when channeling.
Try to get your facts straight with me, next time.