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The Secret World: Wondrous or Worrisome?

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  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member

    Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

    RE: AoC,

    I'd like honest and unbiased answers.

    I downloaded AoC but was turned off when I saw the classes I'd want to play locked unless I pay, I never even really logged in after that. So I know next to nothing about the game. 

    How does the Cash Shop/RMT implementation in AoC impact the game overall? 

    And did FC say one thing about what will be in it and do another or did they stick to their word?

    How is the Free play model in AoC? Is it comprehensive or is it just a teaser to make you need to pay?

     

    You can play to the cap, without paying anything, so its great as a trial/teaser, but there are locks and restrictions all over the place.  I'd be ok with that, but it's also on the expensive side, so if you unlock everything, you're paying way more than if you subbed for a month or two.  

     

    They seem to think the cash shop prices should be on par with a longterm subscription, which I think is absurd, especially when it was implemented because it was failing under the subscription model.  I mean, maybe that would make sense in a brand new AAA game, but not an old dying one.

     

    On top of all that, there are penalties for not subbing that the cash shop never makes up for, so if you get serious about the game, they try to squeeze a sub out of you, no matter how much you've dumped into the cash shop.  It's been a long time since I played.. so can't actually remember what the specifics on that were.  Something to do with endgame advancement being inaccessible unless you sub, or something crazy like that.

     

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • GeeTeeEffOhGeeTeeEffOh Newington, CTPosts: 731Member

    Originally posted by Vhaln

    Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

    RE: AoC,

    I'd like honest and unbiased answers.

    I downloaded AoC but was turned off when I saw the classes I'd want to play locked unless I pay, I never even really logged in after that. So I know next to nothing about the game. 

    How does the Cash Shop/RMT implementation in AoC impact the game overall? 

    And did FC say one thing about what will be in it and do another or did they stick to their word?

    How is the Free play model in AoC? Is it comprehensive or is it just a teaser to make you need to pay?

     

    You can play to the cap, without paying anything, so its great as a trial/teaser, but there are locks and restrictions all over the place.  I'd be ok with that, but it's also on the expensive side, so if you unlock everything, you're paying way more than if you subbed for a month or two.  

     

    They seem to think the cash shop prices should be on par with a longterm subscription, which I think is absurd, especially when it was implemented because it was failing under the subscription model.  I mean, maybe that would make sense in a brand new AAA game, but not an old dying one.

     

    On top of all that, there are penalties for not subbing that the cash shop never makes up for, so if you get serious about the game, they try to squeeze a sub out of you, no matter how much you've dumped into the cash shop.  It's been a long time since I played.. so can't actually remember what the specifics on that were.  Something to do with endgame advancement being inaccessible unless you sub, or something crazy like that.

     

    /sigh

     

     

  • ropeniceropenice Lake Worth, FLPosts: 587Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by fenistil



    Originally posted by Suzie_Ford



    T



    You're perfectly fine to have an opinion like that.

     

     

    Biggest advantages of paying subscription for me are (or was more like) :

     

    1. No cash shop, rmt ,rmah ,etc will ruin my immersion by reminding and connecting my game with real world.

     

    2. I KNOW that I will have access to whole game paying this fixed amount.

     

     

    Same model is with my internet my ISP provide me.  I have unlimited download / upload capacity , well I guess If I started to use bandwidth in TB then my ISP would like to have talk with me ,but well there were months I was using hundreads of GB of bandwidtch and no extra costs, no slowing down of connectiojn nothing.

     

    Now - TSW.

    Cosmetic items ,outfits ,etc are also important to me. and to others as well I presume ,cause if not they would NOT BUY IT. That's kinda logical.

     

    So anyway - just throwed my 2 cents.

     

    ---------

     

    One more thing. For good game ,good community ,virtual world mmorpg I am ready to pay subscription. Heck even bit higher than 15$.

    Still I will not pay subscription and tolerate any form of cash shop ,rmt in game I play.

    Cosmetic or not.

     

    Other people can have diffrent opinion than mine and they can decide to play a game with business model like that or any other nickle & diming model (most of freemium models are almost as bad as TSW) - more power to them.

     

    Until I find mmorpg I like with gameplay AND business model (currently have my eyes on GW2 ,but highest hopes with ArcheAge) then I will continue to be mmo-free and use my leisure time for other activities that also obviously inlude lurking on this forum :)




     

    I agree it is lame to pay a sub to play entire game (including customization), and then have to pay more to get the look, uniqueness, etc of character (customization). To me it's not a dealbreaker if it's a great game, but I wont buy anything from the CS.

    Funcom should give incentives for players that get 3/6 month sub deals-like some points to spend in the store or give in game points for gaining faction/or xp (would take some of the sting out of it). DDO (i know it's F2P) gives points for every 100 pts of faction, or if you sub instead of f2p you get 500pts/month for their store. Still, I hate the fact that their armor sets that you get in game all look terrible, while the store bought ones look so good. I understand thats how you make money, but they also make money from players paying monthly sub.

  • xmentyxmenty SingaporePosts: 679Member

    Originally posted by mmoDAD



    Originally posted by Suzie_Ford



    The cash shop, at least from all that I've both seen and read, is convenience only. For instance, players will be able to buy outfit items. Since there IS no armor class in TSW, the purchase is purely for cosmetic looks only. Why would anyone feel compelled to use a cash shop?

    Really, this sort of revenue model is a good one. People kvetch about box prices with subs. People kvetch about F2P with item malls. This is a nice mix of both: A quality subscription game (which many say makes a better, higher quality game) with a convenience store if so desired.

    Funcom isn't going to be twisting anyone's arm to buy stuff to "win". 

    The whole "aesthetic only is okay" thing is total bullshit.

    People play games for a variety of reasons. Why should someone who wants to look the best aesthetically have to pay more than an adventurer who wants the best gear?

    So after I purchase the following:

    +$50-$60 for game...

    +$15 per month

    +$15 per month

    +$15 per month

    +$15 per month

    +$15 per month

    +$15 per month

    +$15 per month

    ....I still have to pay extra for a nice looking cape or cloak?

    I'm done with this nickel & diming model. I will not participate. Funcom, IMO, is now in the same bag as Cryptic.

     I have to agree with mmoDAD.

    We rented the game, pay monthly subs and it is still not enough for them.

    That they still have a CS to nickel and dime the players who support them.

    There is something wrong with this concept and I will not support it too, just like ME3 with day 1 DLC.

    Tell them to go FO.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language :)

  • umcorianumcorian Boston, MAPosts: 466Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Suzie_Ford

    The cash shop, at least from all that I've both seen and read, is convenience only. For instance, players will be able to buy outfit items. Since there IS no armor class in TSW, the purchase is purely for cosmetic looks only. Why would anyone feel compelled to use a cash shop?

    Really, this sort of revenue model is a good one. People kvetch about box prices with subs. People kvetch about F2P with item malls. This is a nice mix of both: A quality subscription game (which many say makes a better, higher quality game) with a convenience store if so desired.

    Funcom isn't going to be twisting anyone's arm to buy stuff to "win".

    Suzie, I'm with you depending on what, exactly, is in the cash shop. For example, if I want to wear a Black Leather jacket in game, but my only option is to bust out my credit card again, I'm going to be very pissed.

    In an MMO where one of the leading features is the ability to customize your character, if I have to pay a monthly fee and then crack out my credit card every time I wanna wardrobe change, I'm giving this game a huge pass.

    What could alternatively work is what Cryptic did for Champions Online. Each time you buy a month of game time, you get a small stipend which you can spend at the cash store. The stipend was large enough to unlock 1 costume set you liked a month. THIS, I could see working. If I see a look I really like, I can buy it with my monthly stipend as a paying customer. 

    Regardless, Funcom has nothing but my skeptism. I'm not going to "hold a grudge" but AoC was a catastrophie on release. Fool me once, shame on me... fool me twice. This is another one, I'm going to wait several months before even considering. Lets see if MMORPG.com and other sites sing its praise first, even in the months following its release. 

  • SmokeysongSmokeysong Lewisville, TXPosts: 236Member

    I guess I haven't forgiven FunCom for screwing us over from the beginning with Age of Conan.

    "Cimmeria" was supposed to be a Roleplaying server, but they forgot to label it as such, and then didn't do a dang thing about the GoofballzRS names or lack of RP from the player base on that server. In my view, AoC needed 3 things to work right: A game that supported the vision of Robert E. Howard, a well maintained RP server, and a PvP player base that wasn't into ganking low level characters ad infinitum. A player base that wanted to use PvP to enhance RP, not destroy it.

    Then, FunCom added equipment you could buy for real money that effected your stats. Then, they put F2P players on P2P servers.

    I have no hope for "The Secret World" because it's a Funcom game. I don't even care whether or not that's "fair". Certainly, Age of Conan is more than just the things I mentioned, and they got some things very right, including instances that would scale down to a single player and some of the most fun melee combat around, but the rest leaves such a bad taste in my mouth I just can't deal with AoC. Or FunCom.

    Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall

  • OlgarkOlgark BostonPosts: 319Member Uncommon

    I am looking forward to it. My main reason is it looks like a change from the old class/level mechanic that developers are frightend to move away from.

    Also the quests are a new idea in that not all of them can be solved just from being in the game you got to look things up on google or wiki's and this intregues me.

    PvP I can take it or leave its not a huge part of the game for me. I prefer exploring, crafting and RP'ing. If they have thoses systems in place and decent I wont be doing alot of pvp.

    image

  • ConnmacartConnmacart OsloPosts: 681Member Uncommon



    All the heady praise does give one pause to consider, however. MMO fans tend to be a skeptical bunch all in all, particularly with regard to press accolades given to a game before its release. We hear a lot of “well, they’re paid to write things like that” and “the almighty dollar speaks again” and other such things. But are those thoughts a fair assessment of the impression a game makes on a reporter during a carefully scripted press event? I think not.

    You want to prove that statement. Then how about you being extremely critical of the next product you review. critical to the point of being anal. Else all I see are blatant lies. This goes for all reviewers. And don't pick some B product, that has zero advertisement on the site.

    As for TSW, Funcom has proven over and over to be inept. I see no reason TSW would be the exception to the rule.

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    There is a reason for the scepticism of MMORPG gamers. It is after one dissapointment after another, which promised great things but instead delivered a casual ThemePark/WoW clone with some gimmicks. Be it voice acting, rifts, semi-action paced combat, it's minor things that we are supposed to be overjoyed over. We are not and hence why we have grown sceptic when developers are promising the next great thing.

  • UnlightUnlight Ottawa, ONPosts: 2,540Member

    Originally posted by Suzie_Ford

    The cash shop, at least from all that I've both seen and read, is convenience only. For instance, players will be able to buy outfit items. Since there IS no armor class in TSW, the purchase is purely for cosmetic looks only. Why would anyone feel compelled to use a cash shop?

    Really, this sort of revenue model is a good one. People kvetch about box prices with subs. People kvetch about F2P with item malls. This is a nice mix of both: A quality subscription game (which many say makes a better, higher quality game) with a convenience store if so desired.

    Funcom isn't going to be twisting anyone's arm to buy stuff to "win".

    People kvetch, rightly, about paying a box price, subscription and a cash shop.  But please, do continue defending the indefensible.  I'm sure you'll be right there behind them when we're also paying extra for premium support because the inch we gave, eventually turns into a mile.  No one bothered to do that with EA and now they are getting slapped with day one DLC.

    Businesses will push to get as much as they can from the consumer.  It's the consumer's duty to push back.  Good to know which side you come down on.

    It's shocking what willing victims some of us are.

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    Originally posted by Unlight

    Originally posted by Suzie_Ford

    The cash shop, at least from all that I've both seen and read, is convenience only. For instance, players will be able to buy outfit items. Since there IS no armor class in TSW, the purchase is purely for cosmetic looks only. Why would anyone feel compelled to use a cash shop?

    Really, this sort of revenue model is a good one. People kvetch about box prices with subs. People kvetch about F2P with item malls. This is a nice mix of both: A quality subscription game (which many say makes a better, higher quality game) with a convenience store if so desired.

    Funcom isn't going to be twisting anyone's arm to buy stuff to "win".

    People kvetch, rightly, about paying a box price, subscription and a cash shop.  But please, do continue defending the indefensible.  I'm sure you'll be right there behind them when we're also paying extra for premium support because the inch we gave, eventually turns into a mile.  No one bothered to do that with EA and now they are getting slapped with day one DLC.

    Businesses will push to get as much as they can from the consumer.  It's the consumer's duty to push back.  Good to know which side you come down on.

    It's shocking what willing victims some of us are.

    Yeah reminds me of that Futurama episode when he said: "Shut up and take my money!"

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by Unlight


    Originally posted by Suzie_Ford

    The cash shop, at least from all that I've both seen and read, is convenience only. For instance, players will be able to buy outfit items. Since there IS no armor class in TSW, the purchase is purely for cosmetic looks only. Why would anyone feel compelled to use a cash shop?

    Really, this sort of revenue model is a good one. People kvetch about box prices with subs. People kvetch about F2P with item malls. This is a nice mix of both: A quality subscription game (which many say makes a better, higher quality game) with a convenience store if so desired.

    Funcom isn't going to be twisting anyone's arm to buy stuff to "win".

    People kvetch, rightly, about paying a box price, subscription and a cash shop.  But please, do continue defending the indefensible.  I'm sure you'll be right there behind them when we're also paying extra for premium support because the inch we gave, eventually turns into a mile.  No one bothered to do that with EA and now they are getting slapped with day one DLC.

    Businesses will push to get as much as they can from the consumer.  It's the consumer's duty to push back.  Good to know which side you come down on.

    It's shocking what willing victims some of us are.

    Yeah reminds me of that Futurama episode when he said: "Shut up and take my money!"

    Yeah ,that's kinda sad actually. 

    Great post Unlight.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Was interested in it but...

    In making cuts to meet the deadline, pvp has lost out again, such a shame a 3 faction game with a cool skill system is now launching with less pvp than bloody swtor. Especially when you consider the original agartha concept
  • AcmegamerAcmegamer Selah, WAPosts: 337Member

    Originally posted by Yamota

    There is a reason for the scepticism of MMORPG gamers. It is after one dissapointment after another, which promised great things but instead delivered a casual ThemePark/WoW clone with some gimmicks. Be it voice acting, rifts, semi-action paced combat, it's minor things that we are supposed to be overjoyed over. We are not and hence why we have grown sceptic when developers are promising the next great thing.

     

       Yep that sums it up, with a side of "This company has burned us before".

  • AcmegamerAcmegamer Selah, WAPosts: 337Member

    Originally posted by Unlight

    Originally posted by Suzie_Ford

    The cash shop, at least from all that I've both seen and read, is convenience only. For instance, players will be able to buy outfit items. Since there IS no armor class in TSW, the purchase is purely for cosmetic looks only. Why would anyone feel compelled to use a cash shop?

    Really, this sort of revenue model is a good one. People kvetch about box prices with subs. People kvetch about F2P with item malls. This is a nice mix of both: A quality subscription game (which many say makes a better, higher quality game) with a convenience store if so desired.

    Funcom isn't going to be twisting anyone's arm to buy stuff to "win".

    People kvetch, rightly, about paying a box price, subscription and a cash shop.  But please, do continue defending the indefensible.  I'm sure you'll be right there behind them when we're also paying extra for premium support because the inch we gave, eventually turns into a mile.  No one bothered to do that with EA and now they are getting slapped with day one DLC.

    Businesses will push to get as much as they can from the consumer.  It's the consumer's duty to push back.  Good to know which side you come down on.

    It's shocking what willing victims some of us are.

     

         Ok your point of view I can not agree with. You act as if the box price and subscription price as some huge amount of cash that is set there to burn you.  I don't get this continuing mind set for a hobby that most are apparently quite passionate for, that these companies should not make any money. There are a lot of costs associated with developing and maintaining a mmo-rpg. The box price and subscription price are cheap, I just don't get this. You want it free, develop and maintain it yourself.

     

       The only thing I am critical about in regards to cash shops are if they sell mechanical advantages. If they sell fluff item, I don't care. The cash earned from these shops helps the company continue to exist in a healthy state. Which means it can continue to make, support and develop things I like. You know I'm a pretty socialist sort of guy honestly or maybe a better way to put it would be an ethical democrate. Not sure if there is a clear label really, but my point is I am not someone who thinks greed is good, specially blind greed at the cost of ethical behavior.

     

       But I just don't get this mind set that you all think that these developers are robbing you blind. If they design crap, you walk away. Even when I was a kid I could have earned or did actually earn enough to pay for these games as a monthly hobby. I would have needed my parents to buy my computer, or at least the one I'd have wanted. lol. Actually scratch that I could have raised the cash over the summer, so even the hard ware was within my reach. So again, I just don't get the issue that for less then the cost of going to a movie and buying snacks you all act like mmo-rpg developers are out to rob you blind. If you don't see the value in their games, don't buy them.

     

       Play something else, obviously you don't see the value in this genre and think that stand alone games are of more value. They develop it, they launch it and they walk away, ok sometimes they might patch it a bit. That I see posts of people claiming to be shocked or robbed or calling themselves victims, just makes me think that you don't know what those terms mean.

     

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,232Member Uncommon

    so, why is it no one is complaining about wow?

    they have a box, a sub, and a cash shop too. 10 million victims, baby?

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • jayartejayarte LancasterPosts: 450Member

    "The Secret World is being billed as the “thinking man’s MMO” and, let’s face it: That’s not going to appeal to everyone, especially ..." women like me who are sick of thoughtless and pervasive sexism.

    Just to spell it out, I don't mean the game itself (don't know enough about it yet), I mean the phrase "thinking man's mmo".  I mean come on, this is 2012 where awareness of gender/race/sexuality bias is supposed to be heightened.  As I've said before, ad nauseum, if these comments were racist in nature folks would object.

    Anyway back to my thoughts about The Secret World, like the OP, I'm really, really looking forward to GW2 and have been for years, but this game also appeals because it might just feel fresh and original, a break from the traditional fantasy stuff (which I do enjoy).

  • VampiresVampires MelbournePosts: 75Member

    I don't care what anyone thinks, i want to play this game and i'm lookiing forward to it's release!

    image
  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    Originally posted by Thane

    so, why is it no one is complaining about wow?

    they have a box, a sub, and a cash shop too. 10 million victims, baby?

    Think you missed circa 3 billions of post complaining about it.

     

    Besides WoW did add cash shop like 5 years after release?

     

    Think whinage would be much smaller if TSW would add cash shop 5 years after it's release in 2017.

     

    Last but not least. Who cares? 

    Just cause some other comapny is doing it wrong does not mean that people that don't like this can't voice their opinion on it.

     

    Not touching TSW with a stick cause of douple dipping greedy BM.

  • HordedogHordedog Austin, TXPosts: 38Member

    Originally posted by Games888

    If u like killing zombies and running around solving mysteries or doing quests with no instructions this is the game for u.

     

     


     

    Oh the horror! How dare FC make us use our brains to complete a quest instead of spelling every thing out for us beforehand  via the quest NPC. How cruel of them to make us use our brains.  

    One would think that someone who's been saving up brain cells by only typing "u" instead of wasting them on those pesky y's and o's, could spare a cell or two on figuring out a quest on their own without having it spelled out for them. 

  • HordedogHordedog Austin, TXPosts: 38Member

    Originally posted by fenistil

    Originally posted by Thane

    so, why is it no one is complaining about wow?

    they have a box, a sub, and a cash shop too. 10 million victims, baby?

    Think you missed circa 3 billions of post complaining about it.

     

    Besides WoW did add cash shop like 5 years after release?

     

    Think whinage would be much smaller if TSW would add cash shop 5 years after it's release in 2017.

     

    Last but not least. Who cares? 

    Just cause some other comapny is doing it wrong does not mean that people that don't like this can't voice their opinion on it.

     

    Not touching TSW with a stick cause of douple dipping greedy BM.


     

    It matters not one iota when WoW added it's cash shop. It has a cash shop. Period. Either a game has one, or it doesn't. When it was added is moot.

    And so by your logic, WoW is a greedy double dipper with it's box, sub and cash shop.

    And bseides, it's been stated multiple times that TSW's cash shop is for cosmetic items only. There'll be no "I win!" items available, so someone who uses the cash shop won't have any advantage over you if you choose not to use it.  

  • PukeBucketPukeBucket Beaverton, ORPosts: 867Member

    I'm looking forward to it, but honestly......

    I have, like others had pointed out, saw flaw in their proposed pricing plan and figured I'd just wait for it to go F2P soon enough.

    The mechanics / game play / content are all rather exciting things for me personally. Even if some of it might feel samey, there seems to be enough unique to the game to make up for that.

    I won't sub / cash shop to any game tho'.

    It's a stupid model.

    I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.

  • BereKinBereKin SplitPosts: 287Member

    I have high hopes for The Secret World, it could be a bit of fresh air in today mmo stench.

  • CorpocesCorpoces Longmont, COPosts: 18Member

    Please people, do not fool your selves into believing the Item Mall will only have cosmetic or fluff items. I can not think of a single item mall game that said "our shop won't sell anything with a WIN button or give you advantage over other players" and mean that.

    If not during launch, then shortly after, the Item Mall will have +XP items, items to upgrade gear, mounts(if game will have such things), healing items, teleport/quick transport items and other things they say won't give one player advantage over another. Problem is, those are all advantageous items in PVP.

    Someone said before there nothing we can do about it and we either play or we don't play. That is very wrong. A player base can have control over such things. The player base just has to speak loud enough. If enough people make a stink about it, a company will change their view and this has been proven in other games. Losing a player base because they ignore majority of complaints is a company shooting them selves in the foot.

  • kelendarkelendar Birmingham, ALPosts: 6Member

    Originally posted by mmoDAD



    Originally posted by Suzie_Ford



    The cash shop, at least from all that I've both seen and read, is convenience only. For instance, players will be able to buy outfit items. Since there IS no armor class in TSW, the purchase is purely for cosmetic looks only. Why would anyone feel compelled to use a cash shop?

    Really, this sort of revenue model is a good one. People kvetch about box prices with subs. People kvetch about F2P with item malls. This is a nice mix of both: A quality subscription game (which many say makes a better, higher quality game) with a convenience store if so desired.

    Funcom isn't going to be twisting anyone's arm to buy stuff to "win".






     

    The whole "aesthetic only is okay" thing is total bullshit.

    People play games for a variety of reasons. Why should someone who wants to look the best aesthetically have to pay more than an adventurer who wants the best gear?

    So after I purchase the following:

    +$50-$60 for game...

    +$15 per month

    +$15 per month

    +$15 per month

    +$15 per month

    +$15 per month

    +$15 per month

    +$15 per month

     

    ....I still have to pay extra for a nice looking cape or cloak?

     

    I'm done with this nickel & diming model. I will not participate. Funcom, IMO, is now in the same bag as Cryptic.




     

     

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