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A confession; I've been playing TOR.

13

Comments

  • kobie173kobie173 Rochester, NYPosts: 2,075Member

    Originally posted by Sandbox

     

    SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

    Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

    I agree with your last line.

    The what now?

    So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.

  • SandboxSandbox SwedenPosts: 295Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by kobie173

    Originally posted by Sandbox


     

    SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

    Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

    I agree with your last line.

    The what now?

    Duh... Why ask?

    It's all about opinions, you should know that.

     

    Even if you are cluless, the opening line should have hinted that my post are about opinions, since we all know the game just closed.

  • kobie173kobie173 Rochester, NYPosts: 2,075Member

    Originally posted by Sandbox

    Originally posted by kobie173


    Originally posted by Sandbox


     

    SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

    Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

    I agree with your last line.

    The what now?

    Duh... Why ask?

    It's all about opinions, you should know that.

    Even if you are cluless, the opening line should have hinted that my post are about opinions, since we all know the game just closed.

    I was just curious as to what criteria you were using to label SWTOR a "failure." My mistake for expecting anyone to clarify what they say with, yanno, actual facts.

    So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.

  • SandboxSandbox SwedenPosts: 295Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by kobie173

    Originally posted by Sandbox

    Originally posted by kobie173

    Originally posted by Sandbox

     

    SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

    Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

    I agree with your last line.

    The what now?

    Duh... Why ask?

    It's all about opinions, you should know that.

    Even if you are cluless, the opening line should have hinted that my post are about opinions, since we all know the game just closed.

    I was just curious as to what criteria you were using to label SWTOR a "failure." My mistake for expecting anyone to clarify what they say with, yanno, actual facts.


    I tell you explicit it's my opinion, still you ask for facts.


     


    Short answer (and still my opinion); by releasing a single player game with co-op options and then claim it's a MMO.


    I'm not alone being disappointed, my server was amongst the top 10 in EU (Frostclaw) and when I left after 2 months it really felt lonely there.


    They should suck it up and start merge servers, or they will lose even more players in the long run.

  • ktanner3ktanner3 lakeland, FLPosts: 4,074Member Common

    Originally posted by Obraik

    Many will probably remember me saying I wasn't going to play TOR, however I have family members and friends internationally who like to aid my crazy addictions and picked it up for me late last year.  I'm sure there are many here that are hoping to read this and see that I've "seen the light" and come to realise that SWG was crap, etc etc.  If you're one of those people then you're probably not going to like this post.

    I highly doubt anyone would be hoping that. I know I never did. Having experienced the SWG fans in all their fickleness in my time there I've been hoping for them to stay as far away from TOR as humanely possible.

    I always knew TOR was never going to be anything like SWG but I figured that this is what MMO's are these days and being a fan of the MMO genre I might as well at least play one that is somewhat sci-fi.  So for the last three months I've trying to become attached to TOR like I was with SWG.

    I can see playing the free month to see if you liked it or not. But it took you THREE months to figure this simple part out? It only takes me at best three days to figure out if an MMO is worth my sub or not.

    That attempt has failed.  As much as I've tried, TOR is too linear and simplistic for me.  I don't feel like I'm playing an MMO, I feel like I'm playing a single player game for the most part - there's little in the way of a community and there's nothing there to really entice a community atmosphere.

    My main complaints:



    • The lack of a community feel.  For the most part, I feel like I'm playing a single player game.  For the grind from 1-50 I pretty much feel like I'm all on my own and there's little reason to involve anyone else.  I know this is something SWG tried to do as well with the legacy quests but there were alternatives. 


    •  


    • What alternatives were those? There were a couple quests that were class specific but they were few and far between. The rest of the quests were the EXACT same as everyone else. You could do some space pew pew for awhile, but killing the same mobs over and over again gets old.  TOR's class specific storylines blows anything SWG ever did out of the water. Add in the world quests, warzones and operations and SWG isn't even in the same league as TOR.


    •  


    • Being in a guild seems to be for title only as you don't seem to really need to rely on your guild for much. 


    • Meaningless PvP, which kind of links with the above point.  I don't see much in the way of PvP outside of the instanced areas.  I'm on a PvP server but the only places I encounter PvP is when I queue for a Warzone or if I were to go to Ilum.  I miss the PvP based on pride in SWG which actually gave it a war like feel - I felt like I had an enemy to fight.  There's no "X guild is SF in Y city and they're holding the SP...let's gather up and kill them!"  I really want something like that again.  Fighting purely for trinkets gets boring.


    Yeah, having your buddies put up bases for you to bust was SO much more war like. And trinkets? Do you REALLY want to go there? At least these trinkets are earned and not bought in a card game.


    • The UI. Holy crap, the UI.  I can't move any of the UI windows to where I want them, I can't resize them and I can't have more than two open at once.  On top of that, the behaviour of one UI window changes if you happen to have another specific UI window open.  It's also too in your face and chunky.

    I don't remember SWG having much for customization in their UI other than the change in colors and style. Big whoop. And UI customization is coming soon, which will be leaps and bounds more than you could do with NGE's UI.



    • Movement controls.  This is potentially just because I'm overly familliar with the way SWG did things, but I really do miss the ability to lock the cursor and simply use the mouse to control the direction my character moves.  Instead, to do this with the mouse I have to hold down two mouse buttons, or through using the keyboard I have to use one key to move and another to control direction.  There's also no means of remapping which two mouse buttons control movement.


    • Much better than the NGE was at launch. With that I had to move a cursor over the target in order to hit a bunch of speedy npcs on crack.Yes, I know it got improved, but since you're not giving TOR the benefit of time here I'll do the same for SWG.


    • A lacking of non-combat activities.  The crafting in TOR is simply, boring.  There's nothing to it and there's really no reason for me to do it.  If people needed/wanted my crafted goods then that would make the boredom worth it but nope, everything comes from loot. 


    • What possible reason did you have to craft in the NGE? I could see making this case for pre-cu SWG. but after the NGE the best stuff was looted or aquired in game. That was why so many of the game's crafters left.


    There's all the little things that SWG just had that you get used to and miss, like housing,


     


    I won't miss the hundreds of empty houses in Tatooine..


     


    the travel system and towards the end, the GCW systems. 


    The travel systems are barely any different. You hop on a speeder to get around the planet and you hop onto a ship to get to the next planet. With TOR there's a couple of more steps on the way, but if this helps filter out the ADD crowd that's fine with me. The GCW system was fun for a few goes and then it got redundant. And the whole base busting thing was an absolute joke.


     


    I suppose three months on I'll admit, I'm missing SWG.  Not obessively so, but I just look at the MMO's out there today and can't really find anything that would keep me interested.  Everything is trying to be like WoW.  Maybe SWG was just "the perfect storm" and in general, MMO's just aren't my thing.


     


    Again, ironic considering the NGE was the ultimate WOW clone...Again, I could see making this case with the SWG that was before the NGE because that game WAS different and had some interesting stuff that should have been worked on and perfected. But the NGE? Puh-leeze.


     


     

     

    Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  • NasjaNasja ZaandamPosts: 47Member

    Originally posted by ktanner3

    Originally posted by Obraik

    Many will probably remember me saying I wasn't going to play TOR, however I have family members and friends internationally who like to aid my crazy addictions and picked it up for me late last year.  I'm sure there are many here that are hoping to read this and see that I've "seen the light" and come to realise that SWG was crap, etc etc.  If you're one of those people then you're probably not going to like this post.

    1) I highly doubt anyone would be hoping that. I know I never did. Having experienced the SWG fans in all their fickleness in my time there I've been hoping for them to stay as far away from TOR as humanely possible.

    I always knew TOR was never going to be anything like SWG but I figured that this is what MMO's are these days and being a fan of the MMO genre I might as well at least play one that is somewhat sci-fi.  So for the last three months I've trying to become attached to TOR like I was with SWG.

    2) I can see playing the free month to see if you liked it or not. But it took you THREE months to figure this simple part out? It only takes me at best three days to figure out if an MMO is worth my sub or not.

    That attempt has failed.  As much as I've tried, TOR is too linear and simplistic for me.  I don't feel like I'm playing an MMO, I feel like I'm playing a single player game for the most part - there's little in the way of a community and there's nothing there to really entice a community atmosphere.

    My main complaints:



    • The lack of a community feel.  For the most part, I feel like I'm playing a single player game.  For the grind from 1-50 I pretty much feel like I'm all on my own and there's little reason to involve anyone else.  I know this is something SWG tried to do as well with the legacy quests but there were alternatives. 


    •  


    • 3) What alternatives were those? There were a couple quests that were class specific but they were few and far between. The rest of the quests were the EXACT same as everyone else. You could do some space pew pew for awhile, but killing the same mobs over and over again gets old.  TOR's class specific storylines blows anything SWG ever did out of the water. Add in the world quests, warzones and operations and SWG isn't even in the same league as TOR.


    •  


    • Being in a guild seems to be for title only as you don't seem to really need to rely on your guild for much. 


    • Meaningless PvP, which kind of links with the above point.  I don't see much in the way of PvP outside of the instanced areas.  I'm on a PvP server but the only places I encounter PvP is when I queue for a Warzone or if I were to go to Ilum.  I miss the PvP based on pride in SWG which actually gave it a war like feel - I felt like I had an enemy to fight.  There's no "X guild is SF in Y city and they're holding the SP...let's gather up and kill them!"  I really want something like that again.  Fighting purely for trinkets gets boring.


    4) Yeah, having your buddies put up bases for you to bust was SO much more war like. And trinkets? Do you REALLY want to go there? At least these trinkets are earned and not bought in a card game.


    • The UI. Holy crap, the UI.  I can't move any of the UI windows to where I want them, I can't resize them and I can't have more than two open at once.  On top of that, the behaviour of one UI window changes if you happen to have another specific UI window open.  It's also too in your face and chunky.

    5) I don't remember SWG having much for customization in their UI other than the change in colors and style. Big whoop. And UI customization is coming soon, which will be leaps and bounds more than you could do with NGE's UI.



    • Movement controls.  This is potentially just because I'm overly familliar with the way SWG did things, but I really do miss the ability to lock the cursor and simply use the mouse to control the direction my character moves.  Instead, to do this with the mouse I have to hold down two mouse buttons, or through using the keyboard I have to use one key to move and another to control direction.  There's also no means of remapping which two mouse buttons control movement.


    • 6) Much better than the NGE was at launch. With that I had to move a cursor over the target in order to hit a bunch of speedy npcs on crack.Yes, I know it got improved, but since you're not giving TOR the benefit of time here I'll do the same for SWG.


    • A lacking of non-combat activities.  The crafting in TOR is simply, boring.  There's nothing to it and there's really no reason for me to do it.  If people needed/wanted my crafted goods then that would make the boredom worth it but nope, everything comes from loot. 


    • 7) What possible reason did you have to craft in the NGE? I could see making this case for pre-cu SWG. but after the NGE the best stuff was looted or aquired in game. That was why so many of the game's crafters left.


    There's all the little things that SWG just had that you get used to and miss, like housing,


     


    8) I won't miss the hundreds of empty houses in Tatooine..


     


    the travel system and towards the end, the GCW systems. 


    9) The travel systems are barely any different. You hop on a speeder to get around the planet and you hop onto a ship to get to the next planet. With TOR there's a couple of more steps on the way, but if this helps filter out the ADD crowd that's fine with me. The GCW system was fun for a few goes and then it got redundant. And the whole base busting thing was an absolute joke.


     


    I suppose three months on I'll admit, I'm missing SWG.  Not obessively so, but I just look at the MMO's out there today and can't really find anything that would keep me interested.  Everything is trying to be like WoW.  Maybe SWG was just "the perfect storm" and in general, MMO's just aren't my thing.


     


    10) Again, ironic considering the NGE was the ultimate WOW clone...Again, I could see making this case with the SWG that was before the NGE because that game WAS different and had some interesting stuff that should have been worked on and perfected. But the NGE? Puh-leeze.


     


     

     

    2: That isn't exactly relevant now is it? Whether someone takes a couple of days or a couple months is up to them and their schedules. I recently unsubbed my tor account as well after I really thought like... "I don't want to go to belsavis again" and found little reason to stay.

    3: Allthough the lvl-ing experience in tor may be different and perhaps better because of the voice acting and all the options, it isn't perfect at all. The class quests for example are just a part of the open world quests. What is bad is that you can't rely on the class quests alone or you will be too low lvl to complete them. You have to do either the world quests / warzone's / flashpoints / space with them since you can't beat a lvl 24 as a lvl 18.

    I am not going to say swg was better, just different but tors lvl-ing experience isn't so "revolutionary" as some claim it to be.

    4: The thing that is referred to is both zone control and static bases here.

    5: The UI was never a problem in swg so why customize it?

    6: We'll have to see, don't we. However it's just one part of the game. If one part gets improved upon, that normally isn't enough to resub and try things again.

    7: Uhm, what kind of armor was exactly better looted then crafted? How about half the ship parts (boosters / droid interfaces / missile launchers / missiles / chaff and to some extend capacitors and engines)? And what kind of weapons didn't have to be deconstructed to make them the way they should be? What kind of clothing or food were better when looted?

    There was plenty of reason to have crafters in swg. In swtor, crafted items are currently "meh" for the most part except for some. What is worse is that "crafters" have to lvl up with combat questing because they need to go to certain planets to gather x resource or they go broke sending their crew on gathering missions.

    8: There was house cleanup at times and if you want to place your house in a city (which was recommended because of bonusses), you had to log in at times or you risk having your house marked for removal.

    9: Except that when using a speeder in tor, every place in tor is filled with npcs who do blow up your bike and after that... you. It gets worse when you group up and your groupmates are using speeders in npc filled area's and the group gets split up because of this. I usually disband in a pickup group whenever I notice others are using speeders (after which I get a "huh" response, ah well).

    If you compare tor tatooine with swg tatooine, then in swg I could just avoid npc's and feel like I am on a desert planets with large open spaces. In tor, the graphics may be better but there are people or npc's "everywhere" which isn't realistic.

    10: The nge was trying to become wow, true but after the nge, a lot of elements from pre nge were brought back because people weren't coming in as they hoped for and people left because they didn't want the nge. In any case, tor is a shell of what the nge was.

  • ktanner3ktanner3 lakeland, FLPosts: 4,074Member Common

    Originally posted by Nasja

    Originally posted by ktanner3

     

    3: Allthough the lvl-ing experience in tor may be different and perhaps better because of the voice acting and all the options, it isn't perfect at all. The class quests for example are just a part of the open world quests. What is bad is that you can't rely on the class quests alone or you will be too low lvl to complete them. You have to do either the world quests / warzone's / flashpoints / space with them since you can't beat a lvl 24 as a lvl 18.

    I never said it was perfect. I said it was way better than SWG, which it is. With SWG it was the legacy and that was it.If I leveled my jedi to 80 guess what quests my bounty hunter was doing? The exact same thing. With TOR I have a jedi story line that will not be repeated by my bounty hunter.  My bounty hunter won't even run into the same planets as the jedi until he reaches Tattoine. TOR gives you far more options for questing than SWG ever did and they are far more interesting. After doing the legacy series once, I never wanted to do it again.

    .

    7: Uhm, what kind of armor was exactly better looted then crafted? How about half the ship parts (boosters / droid interfaces / missile launchers / missiles / chaff and to some extend capacitors and engines)? And what kind of weapons didn't have to be deconstructed to make them the way they should be? What kind of clothing or food were better when looted?

    There was plenty of reason to have crafters in swg. In swtor, crafted items are currently "meh" for the most part except for some. What is worse is that "crafters" have to lvl up with combat questing because they need to go to certain planets to gather x resource or they go broke sending their crew on gathering missions.

    If just being a pure crafter and nothing else is your preferencee then TOR is not the game for you. We've known that for quite some time. For me personally, leveling as a crafter is far more fun in TOR than it ever was in SWG. I never got what was so fun staring at a status bar. Maybe being a mindless drone in a factory is your way of having fun. For me, it was incredibly boring. Also, if you went broke sending your companions on missions then you're spending your money frivolusly which is your fault, not the game's.. I send my companions on missions all the time and have no problem making money. The difference is I don't waste my money on every single skill that is available from a trainer. THAT is where you start wasting money.. I only spend my money on what I need and I make plenty back from what I craft and sell. i also make sure to grab every resource I can while I'm on the planets leveling.

    8: There was house cleanup at times and if you want to place your house in a city (which was recommended because of bonusses), you had to log in at times or you risk having your house marked for removal.

    That's nice, still doesn't change fact that Tatooine was just one big eye sore.

    9: Except that when using a speeder in tor, every place in tor is filled with npcs who do blow up your bike and after that... you. It gets worse when you group up and your groupmates are using speeders in npc filled area's and the group gets split up because of this. I usually disband in a pickup group whenever I notice others are using speeders (after which I get a "huh" response, ah well).

    Yeah, heaven forbid that you can't just speed your bike anywhere you want to go. It's called CHALLENGE. This is Tattoine, not Coruscant. Tattoine is suppose to be a dangerous place with sandpeople in it, not a strollers paradise. If you are disbanding because you are afraid of suprise attacks from NPCs then you need to stick with games like WOW or Hello Kitty online.

    If you compare tor tatooine with swg tatooine, then in swg I could just avoid npc's and feel like I am on a desert planets with large open spaces. In tor, the graphics may be better but there are people or npc's "everywhere" which isn't realistic.

    Now I'm starting to wonder if you even played the game. There is tons of empty space on Tattoine in TOR. The Dune Sea alone is one big barren empty space.

    10: The nge was trying to become wow, true but after the nge, a lot of elements from pre nge were brought back because people weren't coming in as they hoped for and people left because they didn't want the nge. In any case, tor is a shell of what the nge was.

    Wow.To me, NGE took what could have been a great game and made it a piece of sh*t. Trying to compare the NGE to TOR is like trying to compare bologna to a steak. Tor has far more planets than SWG ever had with a leveling experience that is more fun than any MMO I've ever played. With the constant updates that the devs are giving, it will be interesting to see what the game looks like a year from now. But for me at least, it's far better than SWG was on even it's best day, which wasn't many. It really is too bad that SWG was taken down, but that is the fate every MMO will have to face one day.

     

    Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  • NasjaNasja ZaandamPosts: 47Member

    Originally posted by ktanner3

    Originally posted by Nasja


    Originally posted by ktanner3

     

    3: Allthough the lvl-ing experience in tor may be different and perhaps better because of the voice acting and all the options, it isn't perfect at all. The class quests for example are just a part of the open world quests. What is bad is that you can't rely on the class quests alone or you will be too low lvl to complete them. You have to do either the world quests / warzone's / flashpoints / space with them since you can't beat a lvl 24 as a lvl 18.

    I never said it was perfect. I said it was way better than SWG, which it is. With SWG it was the legacy and that was it.If I leveled my jedi to 80 guess what quests my bounty hunter was doing? The exact same thing. With TOR I have a jedi story line that will not be repeated by my bounty hunter.  My bounty hunter won't even run into the same planets as the jedi until he reaches Tattoine. TOR gives you far more options for questing than SWG ever did and they are far more interesting. After doing the legacy series once, I never wanted to do it again.

    .

    7: Uhm, what kind of armor was exactly better looted then crafted? How about half the ship parts (boosters / droid interfaces / missile launchers / missiles / chaff and to some extend capacitors and engines)? And what kind of weapons didn't have to be deconstructed to make them the way they should be? What kind of clothing or food were better when looted?

    There was plenty of reason to have crafters in swg. In swtor, crafted items are currently "meh" for the most part except for some. What is worse is that "crafters" have to lvl up with combat questing because they need to go to certain planets to gather x resource or they go broke sending their crew on gathering missions.

    If just being a pure crafter and nothing else is your preferencee then TOR is not the game for you. We've known that for quite some time. For me personally, leveling as a crafter is far more fun in TOR than it ever was in SWG. I never got what was so fun staring at a status bar. Maybe being a mindless drone in a factory is your way of having fun. For me, it was incredibly boring. Also, if you went broke sending your companions on missions then you're spending your money frivolusly which is your fault, not the game's.. I send my companions on missions all the time and have no problem making money. The difference is I don't waste my money on every single skill that is available from a trainer. THAT is where you start wasting money.. I only spend my money on what I need and I make plenty back from what I craft and sell. i also make sure to grab every resource I can while I'm on the planets leveling.

    8: There was house cleanup at times and if you want to place your house in a city (which was recommended because of bonusses), you had to log in at times or you risk having your house marked for removal.

    That's nice, still doesn't change fact that Tatooine was just one big eye sore.

    9: Except that when using a speeder in tor, every place in tor is filled with npcs who do blow up your bike and after that... you. It gets worse when you group up and your groupmates are using speeders in npc filled area's and the group gets split up because of this. I usually disband in a pickup group whenever I notice others are using speeders (after which I get a "huh" response, ah well).

    Yeah, heaven forbid that you can't just speed your bike anywhere you want to go. It's called CHALLENGE. This is Tattoine, not Coruscant. Tattoine is suppose to be a dangerous place with sandpeople in it, not a strollers paradise. If you are disbanding because you are afraid of suprise attacks from NPCs then you need to stick with games like WOW or Hello Kitty online.

    If you compare tor tatooine with swg tatooine, then in swg I could just avoid npc's and feel like I am on a desert planets with large open spaces. In tor, the graphics may be better but there are people or npc's "everywhere" which isn't realistic.

    Now I'm starting to wonder if you even played the game. There is tons of empty space on Tattoine in TOR. The Dune Sea alone is one big barren empty space.

    10: The nge was trying to become wow, true but after the nge, a lot of elements from pre nge were brought back because people weren't coming in as they hoped for and people left because they didn't want the nge. In any case, tor is a shell of what the nge was.

    Wow.To me, NGE took what could have been a great game and made it a piece of sh*t. Trying to compare the NGE to TOR is like trying to compare bologna to a steak. Tor has far more planets than SWG ever had with a leveling experience that is more fun than any MMO I've ever played. With the constant updates that the devs are giving, it will be interesting to see what the game looks like a year from now. But for me at least, it's far better than SWG was on even it's best day, which wasn't many. It really is too bad that SWG was taken down, but that is the fate every MMO will have to face one day.

     

    3: Thats not exactly true, yes.. you will have a different starter world and capital world but other then that you are playing on the same planets. Doesn't matter if Taris & Balmorra have different versions, they are still the same planets. Besides that, many people create alts on the same faction, not different factions.

    7: You aren't lvl-ing a "crafter", you are lvl-ing another "hero" in swtor. Everyone in tor is a crafter and then I notice you mention the word *I* a lot. In swg, if you lvl-ed a crafter there was a good chance that you did that not just for yourself but also for the community. And if you only bought the schems from the trainer that were meant for yourself, then thats further proof that swtor is a single player game with multi player co-op which is what we mentioned.

    9: Right, so if you group up in the open world.. it's best to tell them that sticking together is a "challenge", and if you disband, you "lost"? I can just go stealth on some of the professions and sneak past the npc's. It only takes a bit more time. And then, in particular pvp-ers consider npc's a non-challenge and usually think they can go past these npc's on a speeder which off course they cannot (hehe) but it's just best not to group up with anyone in the open world in tor I take it... lol. What kind of mmo are we actually talking about.

    And about the dune sea, no thats not empty at all. In swg there were empty spots so houses / cities could be placed, not so in swtor where there is "something" everywhere. Have you forgotten that there is both a sarlacc pit and a world boss in the dune sea in swtor tatooine? How about a czerka bunker and both factions outposts with numerous quests for both factions? The planets are much more populated in swtor and it was a big surprise to see so many people and beasts on both Tatooine & Hoth, both having such a harsh climate.

    10: So you think you will do anything on Quesh after you have done all quests there? I feel swtor has fewer planets then swg but thats because you just do some quests and move on. Why would anyone go to Ord Mantell other then to pick up a few datacrons? And there isn't any way to go to Korriban other then making a sith toon.

  • eddieg50eddieg50 Tolland, CTPosts: 1,614Member Uncommon

    I think the op forgot this was a Bioware game, the company that specializes in story not a rush to the end game, and lets face it people rush to the end game in mmo's because the story sucks, the wall of text is tireing to read, voice overs which add immersion are almost non existant in games.  How many times have you heard someone say " the fun stuff does not happen til end game or lvl 80-you hear that about almost every game with some exceptions of sand box type games.    Bioware wanted to make a game where people had fun getting to the end game and I think for the most part they succeded, what will be interesting is where they go from here

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by eddieg50

    I think the op forgot this was a Bioware game, the company that specializes in story not a rush to the end game, and lets face it people rush to the end game in mmo's because the story sucks, the wall of text is tireing to read, voice overs which add immersion are almost non existant in games.  How many times have you heard someone say " the fun stuff does not happen til end game or lvl 80-you hear that about almost every game with some exceptions of sand box type games.    Bioware wanted to make a game where people had fun getting to the end game and I think for the most part they succeded, what will be interesting is where they go from here

    No, I think Bioware forgot SWTOR was meant to be a MMO, and not one of their single player games. SWTOR just needs more worthwhile Time Sink content, and whilst levelling up, to slow down the levelling up.

    The OP is not alone in his opinion. I have seen many other people share the same thoughts.

  • TROLL_HARDTROLL_HARD Caucasian/WhitePosts: 312Member

    Originally posted by eddieg50

     SWTOR just needs more worthwhile Time Sink content, and whilst levelling up, to slow down the levelling up.

    Seriously. I can't believe that a lot of the time sink in SWTOR is travelling ridiculous distances for no purpose with zero exploration value. You run through vast empty spaces or use your  mount. It doesn't matter. If it were a huge world to explore, I would be fine with it. But so much of it is just void. 

  • hipiaphipiap Chicago, ILPosts: 439Member

    Originally posted by TROLL_HARD

    Originally posted by eddieg50

     SWTOR just needs more worthwhile Time Sink content, and whilst levelling up, to slow down the levelling up.

    Seriously. I can't believe that a lot of the time sink in SWTOR is travelling ridiculous distances for no purpose with zero exploration value. You run through vast empty spaces or use your  mount. It doesn't matter. If it were a huge world to explore, I would be fine with it. But so much of it is just void. 

    Welcome to leveling in Themepark MMO's.

     

    It's all about "drive 3k talk to /kill NPC.....drive back 3k meters and chat with Questgiver: and repeat until Max Level..."

    MMO History: 2528 days in SW:G
    image

  • grapevinegrapevine PeterboroughPosts: 1,927Member

    Originally posted by Obraik

    Many will probably remember me saying I wasn't going to play TOR, however I have family members and friends internationally who like to aid my crazy addictions and picked it up for me late last year.  I'm sure there are many here that are hoping to read this and see that I've "seen the light" and come to realise that SWG was crap, etc etc.  If you're one of those people then you're probably not going to like this post.

    I always knew TOR was never going to be anything like SWG but I figured that this is what MMO's are these days and being a fan of the MMO genre I might as well at least play one that is somewhat sci-fi.  So for the last three months I've trying to become attached to TOR like I was with SWG.

    That attempt has failed.  As much as I've tried, TOR is too linear and simplistic for me.  I don't feel like I'm playing an MMO, I feel like I'm playing a single player game for the most part - there's little in the way of a community and there's nothing there to really entice a community atmosphere.

    My main complaints:



    • The lack of a community feel.  For the most part, I feel like I'm playing a single player game.  For the grind from 1-50 I pretty much feel like I'm all on my own and there's little reason to involve anyone else.  I know this is something SWG tried to do as well with the legacy quests but there were alternatives.  Being in a guild seems to be for title only as you don't seem to really need to rely on your guild for much. 


    • Meaningless PvP, which kind of links with the above point.  I don't see much in the way of PvP outside of the instanced areas.  I'm on a PvP server but the only places I encounter PvP is when I queue for a Warzone or if I were to go to Ilum.  I miss the PvP based on pride in SWG which actually gave it a war like feel - I felt like I had an enemy to fight.  There's no "X guild is SF in Y city and they're holding the SP...let's gather up and kill them!"  I really want something like that again.  Fighting purely for trinkets gets boring.


    • The UI. Holy crap, the UI.  I can't move any of the UI windows to where I want them, I can't resize them and I can't have more than two open at once.  On top of that, the behaviour of one UI window changes if you happen to have another specific UI window open.  It's also too in your face and chunky.


    • Movement controls.  This is potentially just because I'm overly familliar with the way SWG did things, but I really do miss the ability to lock the cursor and simply use the mouse to control the direction my character moves.  Instead, to do this with the mouse I have to hold down two mouse buttons, or through using the keyboard I have to use one key to move and another to control direction.  There's also no means of remapping which two mouse buttons control movement.


    • A lacking of non-combat activities.  The crafting in TOR is simply, boring.  There's nothing to it and there's really no reason for me to do it.  If people needed/wanted my crafted goods then that would make the boredom worth it but nope, everything comes from loot. 


    There's all the little things that SWG just had that you get used to and miss, like housing, the travel system and towards the end, the GCW systems.  I suppose three months on I'll admit, I'm missing SWG.  Not obessively so, but I just look at the MMO's out there today and can't really find anything that would keep me interested.  Everything is trying to be like WoW.  Maybe SWG was just "the perfect storm" and in general, MMO's just aren't my thing.


     


    If anyone needs me, I'll be in Team Fortress 2...

     

    Just hold down the right mouse button, and it locks so that the mouse controls direction.  Pressing both mouse buttons, simply adds moving forward.   Pretty much a standard feature these days, and was used by SWG (at least pre-NGE).

     

    Still believe if the NGE had been nothing more than adding the leveling experience of SWTOR, we'd have had what SWG should have been.

  • SandboxSandbox SwedenPosts: 295Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by grapevine

    Originally posted by Obraik

    Many will probably remember me saying I wasn't going to play TOR, however I have family members and friends internationally who like to aid my crazy addictions and picked it up for me late last year.  I'm sure there are many here that are hoping to read this and see that I've "seen the light" and come to realise that SWG was crap, etc etc.  If you're one of those people then you're probably not going to like this post.

    I always knew TOR was never going to be anything like SWG but I figured that this is what MMO's are these days and being a fan of the MMO genre I might as well at least play one that is somewhat sci-fi.  So for the last three months I've trying to become attached to TOR like I was with SWG.

    That attempt has failed.  As much as I've tried, TOR is too linear and simplistic for me.  I don't feel like I'm playing an MMO, I feel like I'm playing a single player game for the most part - there's little in the way of a community and there's nothing there to really entice a community atmosphere.

    My main complaints:



    • The lack of a community feel.  For the most part, I feel like I'm playing a single player game.  For the grind from 1-50 I pretty much feel like I'm all on my own and there's little reason to involve anyone else.  I know this is something SWG tried to do as well with the legacy quests but there were alternatives.  Being in a guild seems to be for title only as you don't seem to really need to rely on your guild for much. 


    • Meaningless PvP, which kind of links with the above point.  I don't see much in the way of PvP outside of the instanced areas.  I'm on a PvP server but the only places I encounter PvP is when I queue for a Warzone or if I were to go to Ilum.  I miss the PvP based on pride in SWG which actually gave it a war like feel - I felt like I had an enemy to fight.  There's no "X guild is SF in Y city and they're holding the SP...let's gather up and kill them!"  I really want something like that again.  Fighting purely for trinkets gets boring.


    • The UI. Holy crap, the UI.  I can't move any of the UI windows to where I want them, I can't resize them and I can't have more than two open at once.  On top of that, the behaviour of one UI window changes if you happen to have another specific UI window open.  It's also too in your face and chunky.


    • Movement controls.  This is potentially just because I'm overly familliar with the way SWG did things, but I really do miss the ability to lock the cursor and simply use the mouse to control the direction my character moves.  Instead, to do this with the mouse I have to hold down two mouse buttons, or through using the keyboard I have to use one key to move and another to control direction.  There's also no means of remapping which two mouse buttons control movement.


    • A lacking of non-combat activities.  The crafting in TOR is simply, boring.  There's nothing to it and there's really no reason for me to do it.  If people needed/wanted my crafted goods then that would make the boredom worth it but nope, everything comes from loot. 


    There's all the little things that SWG just had that you get used to and miss, like housing, the travel system and towards the end, the GCW systems.  I suppose three months on I'll admit, I'm missing SWG.  Not obessively so, but I just look at the MMO's out there today and can't really find anything that would keep me interested.  Everything is trying to be like WoW.  Maybe SWG was just "the perfect storm" and in general, MMO's just aren't my thing.


     


    If anyone needs me, I'll be in Team Fortress 2...

     

    Just hold down the right mouse button, and it locks so that the mouse controls direction.  Pressing both mouse buttons, simply adds moving forward.   Pretty much a standard feature these days, and was used by SWG (at least pre-NGE).

    Nope, it's not how it worked, you describe the exactly issue Obraik complained about.

    He wanted to stear with the mosue without pressing any mouse buttons.

  • grapevinegrapevine PeterboroughPosts: 1,927Member

    That was only after the NGE, where the cross-hair based targeting system replaced the more tranditional method of tab targetting.   The NGE combat system was akin to that used in TERA, just not as developed technically.   Pre-NGE movement, etc, was more traditional and were the movement controls used by most modern mmos.  SWTOR isn't the one with non-traditional controls, SWG NGE was.

  • SandboxSandbox SwedenPosts: 295Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by grapevine

    That was only after the NGE, where the cross-hair based targeting system replaced the more tranditional method of tab targetting.   The NGE combat system was akin to that used in TERA, just not as developed technically.   Pre-NGE movement, etc, was more traditional and are the movement controls used by most modern mmos.

    No you are missinformed on that.

    I promisse you, what Obraik said is true, you start auto-run, and the control direction with the mouse without pressing any addional buttons.

    May I suggest you try out any of the emulaters and try it out.

  • grapevinegrapevine PeterboroughPosts: 1,927Member

    Originally posted by Sandbox

    Originally posted by grapevine

    That was only after the NGE, where the cross-hair based targeting system replaced the more tranditional method of tab targetting.   The NGE combat system was akin to that used in TERA, just not as developed technically.   Pre-NGE movement, etc, was more traditional and are the movement controls used by most modern mmos.

    No you are missinformed on that.

    I promisse you, what Obraik said is true, you start auto-run, and the control direction with the mouse without pressing any addional buttons.

    May I suggest you try out any of the emulaters and try it out.

     

    I must admit its been many years, since I played SWG.   Although did so until just after the NGE.   I do however recall (rightly or wrongly) it using traditonal controls, as stated.  Pressing auto-run and it locking controls to the mouse may well be something in addition, but I don't recall.   On the emulator front, have been very temped, but not for testing controls :)

     

    Anyway just tested it on SWTOR, and with auto-run on you only need to hold down the right mouse button to control direction, not both.  That is the more traditional method.

  • SandboxSandbox SwedenPosts: 295Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by grapevine

    Originally posted by Sandbox

    Originally posted by grapevine

    That was only after the NGE, where the cross-hair based targeting system replaced the more tranditional method of tab targetting.   The NGE combat system was akin to that used in TERA, just not as developed technically.   Pre-NGE movement, etc, was more traditional and are the movement controls used by most modern mmos.

    No you are missinformed on that.

    I promisse you, what Obraik said is true, you start auto-run, and the control direction with the mouse without pressing any addional buttons.

    May I suggest you try out any of the emulaters and try it out.

     

    I must admit its been many years, since I played SWG.   Although did so until just after the NGE.   I do however recall (rightly or wrongly) it using traditonal controls, as stated.  Pressing auto-run and it locking controls to the mouse may well be something in addition, but I don't recall.   On the emulator front, have been very temped, but not for testing control :)

     

    Anyway just tested it on SWTOR, and with auto-run on you only need to hold down the right mouse button to control direction, not both.  That is the more traditional method.

    Pre-cu had modeless chat as default, not WASD-controls for movment. Hitting W would make you start typing W in the chat.

    That's why all shortcuts for menu commands were in combination with Ctrl, i.e. Ctrl+I for Inventory. Exception was in space, where you could control your ship with WASD (or the mouse), and you had to hit Enter to activate the chat. Two different UIs.

  • grapevinegrapevine PeterboroughPosts: 1,927Member

    Originally posted by Sandbox

    Originally posted by grapevine


    Originally posted by Sandbox


    Originally posted by grapevine

    That was only after the NGE, where the cross-hair based targeting system replaced the more tranditional method of tab targetting.   The NGE combat system was akin to that used in TERA, just not as developed technically.   Pre-NGE movement, etc, was more traditional and are the movement controls used by most modern mmos.

    No you are missinformed on that.

    I promisse you, what Obraik said is true, you start auto-run, and the control direction with the mouse without pressing any addional buttons.

    May I suggest you try out any of the emulaters and try it out.

     

    I must admit its been many years, since I played SWG.   Although did so until just after the NGE.   I do however recall (rightly or wrongly) it using traditonal controls, as stated.  Pressing auto-run and it locking controls to the mouse may well be something in addition, but I don't recall.   On the emulator front, have been very temped, but not for testing control :)

     

    Anyway just tested it on SWTOR, and with auto-run on you only need to hold down the right mouse button to control direction, not both.  That is the more traditional method.

    Pre-cu had modeless chat as default, not WASD-controls for movment. Hitting W would make you start typing W in the chat.

    That's why all shortcuts for menu commands were in combination with Ctrl, i.e. Ctrl+I for Inventory. Exception was in space, where you could control your ship with WASD (or the mouse), and you had to hit Enter to activate the chat. Two different UIs.

     

    Yes, now recall it was orginally right mouse button to move.  That was replaced though, and it still leaves SWG being the one with the less traditional controls.

  • musicmannmusicmann port allen, LAPosts: 1,107Member

    Originally posted by Obraik

    Originally posted by Sandbox


    Originally posted by superniceguy


    Originally posted by tixylix

    (mod edit)

    SWG was not dead until Dec 15th 2011. Althought started to decline after the shutdown announcement on 24th June 2011

    An article one day before the shutdown announcement

    When they announced SWGs shutdown it had 4 FULL servers, but SWTOR is rarely getting one these days, but should get 60 in comparison.

    SWTOR is dying faster than SWG was

    SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

    Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

    I agree with your last line.

    Not sure how that makes sense, considering that despite the profession system being simplified, SWG was still a much more complex game when it was shutdown in December than what TOR is.  Infact, I can't think of any MMO released since 2003/2004 that has more complexities to it than SWG, even post NGE.  I await the day when a game company decides to try and best that...



    I agree 100%. i hated the NGE from day 1, but it still had enough sandbox things to do that kept it from becoming a pure themepark mmo. TOR on the other hand, to me, is something different than a themepark, it's beyond that title. It's so closed in and on rails it can't be called anything but a SPG with coop options. If Bioware would have used the SWG pre-cu model and sprinkled in their personal story VO/cutscene stuff to add more backstory and flavor to your character and good immersive content and a few other things, i personally think TOR would have been mucher deeper and well rounded and actually would have been a mmorpg.

    Just think about all the goodness TOR could have had, and how TOR should have read:

     

    Huge open explorable planets with beasts that roam and attack not only players but each other

    32 professions that include Sith and Jedi

    Dynamic resource complex crafting   (crafted items are best in game)

    A open space game

    Housing / City building

    Personal story VO / cutscenes

    Epic group content

    Very indepth Character creation with non human playable races

    Elaborite skill point system

    Open world PVP with a Overt / Covert system

    Bounty Hunting

    Lightside / Darkside points

    Three factions: The Sith Empire, The Republic and Neutral

    Player owned in game vendors

    Player Guilds

    Player run virtual economy

    City Bazaars

    17 lush and diversified Planets

     

    All this, set in the Old Republic timeline. Now, doesn't this look much more fun and better than how it is now.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by Sandbox


    Originally posted by grapevine


    Originally posted by Sandbox


    Originally posted by grapevine

    That was only after the NGE, where the cross-hair based targeting system replaced the more tranditional method of tab targetting.   The NGE combat system was akin to that used in TERA, just not as developed technically.   Pre-NGE movement, etc, was more traditional and are the movement controls used by most modern mmos.

    No you are missinformed on that.

    I promisse you, what Obraik said is true, you start auto-run, and the control direction with the mouse without pressing any addional buttons.

    May I suggest you try out any of the emulaters and try it out.

     

    I must admit its been many years, since I played SWG.   Although did so until just after the NGE.   I do however recall (rightly or wrongly) it using traditonal controls, as stated.  Pressing auto-run and it locking controls to the mouse may well be something in addition, but I don't recall.   On the emulator front, have been very temped, but not for testing control :)

     

    Anyway just tested it on SWTOR, and with auto-run on you only need to hold down the right mouse button to control direction, not both.  That is the more traditional method.

    Pre-cu had modeless chat as default, not WASD-controls for movment. Hitting W would make you start typing W in the chat.

    That's why all shortcuts for menu commands were in combination with Ctrl, i.e. Ctrl+I for Inventory. Exception was in space, where you could control your ship with WASD (or the mouse), and you had to hit Enter to activate the chat. Two different UIs.

     

    The arrow keys perform the WASD function in Pre-cu
  • SandboxSandbox SwedenPosts: 295Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by grapevine

    Originally posted by Sandbox

    Originally posted by grapevine

    Originally posted by Sandbox

    Originally posted by grapevine

    That was only after the NGE, where the cross-hair based targeting system replaced the more tranditional method of tab targetting.   The NGE combat system was akin to that used in TERA, just not as developed technically.   Pre-NGE movement, etc, was more traditional and are the movement controls used by most modern mmos.

    No you are missinformed on that.

    I promisse you, what Obraik said is true, you start auto-run, and the control direction with the mouse without pressing any addional buttons.

    May I suggest you try out any of the emulaters and try it out.

     

    I must admit its been many years, since I played SWG.   Although did so until just after the NGE.   I do however recall (rightly or wrongly) it using traditonal controls, as stated.  Pressing auto-run and it locking controls to the mouse may well be something in addition, but I don't recall.   On the emulator front, have been very temped, but not for testing control :)

     

    Anyway just tested it on SWTOR, and with auto-run on you only need to hold down the right mouse button to control direction, not both.  That is the more traditional method.

    Pre-cu had modeless chat as default, not WASD-controls for movment. Hitting W would make you start typing W in the chat.

    That's why all shortcuts for menu commands were in combination with Ctrl, i.e. Ctrl+I for Inventory. Exception was in space, where you could control your ship with WASD (or the mouse), and you had to hit Enter to activate the chat. Two different UIs.

     

    Yes, now recall it was orginally right mouse button to move.  That was replaced though, and it still leaves SWG being the one with the less traditional controls.

    You did not HAVE TO press any mosue button to control movement/direction with the mouse.

    And THAT's what Obraik was missing from SWTOR. 

     

    Typically, you hit auto-run and then use the mouse as a direction control when travelling longer distances. No pressing of any keys or buttons involved. To stop movements, you hit auto-run again (or the right mouse button).

  • eddieg50eddieg50 Tolland, CTPosts: 1,614Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by superniceguy

    Originally posted by eddieg50

    I think the op forgot this was a Bioware game, the company that specializes in story not a rush to the end game, and lets face it people rush to the end game in mmo's because the story sucks, the wall of text is tireing to read, voice overs which add immersion are almost non existant in games.  How many times have you heard someone say " the fun stuff does not happen til end game or lvl 80-you hear that about almost every game with some exceptions of sand box type games.    Bioware wanted to make a game where people had fun getting to the end game and I think for the most part they succeded, what will be interesting is where they go from here

    No, I think Bioware forgot SWTOR was meant to be a MMO, and not one of their single player games. SWTOR just needs more worthwhile Time Sink content, and whilst levelling up, to slow down the levelling up.

    The OP is not alone in his opinion. I have seen many other people share the same thoughts.

        I dont think Bioware needs to add more grind to the game LOL, just what we need more bordom in our MMO's as if there is not enough allready! To say a mmo needs more TIMESINK=BORDOM is like saying lets take all the good stuff out of mass effect 2 or 3 and put in some more repetitive badness, my goodness NO!  The People who play 8 hrs a day 6 days a week are going to blow through the content, but from what I have read those are the people who are most likely to space bar the most interesting parts of SWTOR and that is the story. This is still a new game and I for one am glad that Bioware started an mmo concentrating on what they do best and that is story, now they can flesh out the space game , crafting, etc

  • PainlezzPainlezz Laguna Hills, CAPosts: 620Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Too bad SWG is no longer around, it would be so fun to see SWG having more subs. than SW:TOR, one year down the road. Because lets face it, this game IS a single player game and once you finished it, you aren't going to replay it. Unless it is really, really good, which SW:TOR is sadly not.

    This makes me laugh...

     

    If SWG had any useful number of subs it would still be around....  Good game or bad game doesn't matter.  I expect SWG likely had 10-20k subs at best?  SW:TOR might fall to those levels soon enough but for now it's holding more than enough to stay alive.

  • GinazGinaz Calgary, ABPosts: 1,731Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by hipiap

     

    I wanted Pre-NGE Professions + November 30th 2011 Content.

    This I agree with.  If swg had post nge content with pre-nge game mechanics and systems, many people probably would never have left.  The way soe handled the introduction of the nge, however, with fraudulent business practices and a willingness to fuck over their existing customers for the hope of gaining new ones coupled with the abortion that was the nge on release, made most people abandon swg for good, regardless of whether or not it improved after Nov. 2005.  The bridges were already burned.

    image

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

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