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Mass Effect 3 Reviews! question to the community

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Comments

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    Originally posted by laserit

    Originally posted by Ceridith


    Originally posted by laserit


    Originally posted by Ceridith

    ...

     I have no idea what the actual numbers are for theft and piracy. It is a serious problem in every medium there is. It's a huge cost for business, governments, and the public period

     I cant stand DRM as much as anyone and I dont believe software companies do it for fun. They have real number's... we dont...

     ...

    That's the problem though...

    They don't actually have numbers with any tangible meaning with regards to making a real assessment of how much money is being "lost".

    Yes, they have their sales figures, and where they can they also scrape a general estimation of downloads via checking torrent servers.

    What they don't know however, is of how many of those people who downloaded the game, how many of those people still bought said game. There are people who re-download a game because they lost their disc, and even those who download a game to try it and end up buying it after deciding they like it. There are also countless people who would have never paid a cent for the game regardless if the download was available or not.

    The misconception by the various IP industries is that they see these download numbers and just assume that every single one of those downloads is a "loss" in revenue. They simply do not have any context to actually prove that one download actually equals a lost sale.

    I personally have re-downloaded an album via torrents that I actually bought the CD for, six times. The reason was because the original CD cracked, and I had to re-acquire the MP3s of said album over the years due to PC rebuilds and HD wiping. Even though I still paid for the album, the music industry would count that as six lost sales.

     It's just like any business, they have to find a way to minimise it. Just like stores find ways to minimise shop lifting, all the scanners and video survielance etc. etc.

     

    If people were stealing from you, you would come up with ways to try  to stop them. It wouldnt matter how many or how much they stole from you.

     

    DRM is the price we pay, because of the pricks stealing... pure and simple.

     

    I hate paying for my gas upfront when I refuel my vehicle and being under video survielance when I do. But I dont blame the gas station or the oil company's for that.

    Well there are companies and games released without DRM or with very 'light' DRM and they can do it.

    So I can support them.

     

    Thing is DRM does NOT help , 99% of DRM's are cracked instantly sometimes even before premiere and then DRM only punish LEGIT customers.

     

    So yea I blame companies.

  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,945Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Phry

    Originally posted by laserit

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    Originally posted by laserit

    As long as people find ways to crack copy protection, companies will try to find new ways to fight it. It's a never ending circle. Remember when the first type of copy protection was having to keep the disc in your rig?

     

    It sucks, but blame the right people for it. And just like everything else you buy , a decent percentage of the cost is to fight and make up for fraud and theft.

     

    The people who are getting things for free is costing you, whether you like it or not.

    It's only costing us because companies continue to assume that piracy is major problem. It's not, it's a very minor problem that has minimal impact on sales. Most people that pirate would never have paid a cent in the first place, and many people who do pirate end up purchasing the game anyways if they enjoy it.

    There are several developers and publishers that have done away with all but basic and non-intrusive copy protection, and they're doing just fine. The problem are the few big name companies that think they're losing considerable sales due to piracy, when the reality is poor sales have far more to do with having a crappy product people are unwilling to pay the retail price for.

    Fun fact, the games that have been the most pirated are also the same games that generated the most profit.

    The issue of piracy as a problem has been blown out of proporation due to it being used as scapegoat for the industry to explain away poor sales of shitty games.

     I have no idea what the actual numbers are for theft and piracy. It is a serious problem in every medium there is. It's a huge cost for business, governments, and the public period

     

    I cant stand DRM as much as anyone and I dont believe software companies do it for fun. They have real number's... we dont. All I know is I'm totally fed up with all the pricks in the world constantly hacking, conning, frauding and stealing. Think DRM is bad? you should see some of the draconian piracy protection and service plans on proffesional software, they give DLC a whole new definition.

     

    I'm not defending or for DRM in any way. It's just another example of the shitty direction our society has gone and is going. Just like back in the old days when you could leave your door unlocked... then you had to lock it... then you needed an alarm system... then needed a monitored alarm.... then you needed video survielance... and on and on and on...

     

    Now I'll go play my game so I can forget about all the A-holes in the world for a couple hours.

     

    cheers

     

     

    isnt it ironic that the reason that quite a few games are pirated, is because the drm is so intrusive. when you take into consideration the cost of including the drm in the first place, then the fallacy of drms effectiveness from a sales point of view, is even more exposed, drm isnt really about game piracy.. what its really about is stopping people giving games they have bought, to their friends so they can play the game.  image

    I would argue that Origin and Steam make that more convenient then ever. 

    "If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,945Member Uncommon

    Fact: Tens of thousands of people downloading cracked versions of games through torrents.

    Fact: People argue that gaming companies have no idea what is being stolen and what is being used as a demo etc. etc.

    Fact: People that argue that gaming companies have no idea, have no idea themselves.

    Fact: DRM is here to stay because of cracked copies being torrented.

    Fact: If DRM dosnt work then software companies will move on to something else, which will probably be worse then DRM.

    Fact: If people didnt crack and pirate software we probably wouldnt be having this conversation.

    "If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  • CeridithCeridith Toronto, ONPosts: 2,980Member

    Originally posted by laserit

    Fact: Tens of thousands of people downloading cracked versions of games through torrents.

    Fact: People argue that gaming companies have no idea what is being stolen and what is being used as a demo etc. etc.

    Fact: People that argue that gaming companies have no idea, have no idea themselves.

    Fact: DRM is here to stay because of cracked copies being torrented.

    Fact: If DRM dosnt work then software companies will move on to something else, which will probably be worse then DRM.

    Fact: If people didnt crack and pirate software we probably wouldnt be having this conversation.

    Fact: No matter how invasive of DRM becomes, it will always be cracked and made irrelevant.

    Fact: The more invasive DRM becomes, the more it deters legitimate users from using purchased software than it is doing to prevent piracy.

    Fact: Companies spend millions of dollars over years trying to develop DRM that is cracked within weeks if not days or even hours in some cases.

    Most companies have long since gone overboard on DRM. There are several existing avenues that do decent enough mitigation of the issue. There are also even companies that have completely forgone using any DRM yet are still doing quite well in sales

    I do not condone piracy, but at the same time I have absolutely no sympathy for companies that ruin their products for legitimate customers by forcing ineffective and draconic DRM down their throats. The industry has reached a point where in many cases the pirated version of a game is superior because it expressly bypasses any DRM that would otherwise cripple the game for a legitimate user.

    The way for the industry to compete against piracy is to ensure that the purchased product is worth the price they're asking for. If they're offering something that's overpriced and hampered by excessive DRM, then it just encourages people to pirate instead. Right or wrong, it's human nature.

  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,945Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    The way for the industry to compete against piracy is to ensure that the purchased product is worth the price they're asking for. If they're offering something that's overpriced and hampered by excessive DRM, then it just encourages people to pirate instead. Right or wrong, it's human nature.

     Good games that are worth the price of admission are always pirated the most. It's the crappy ones that people couldnt be bothered pirating.

    "If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,664Member Uncommon

    I just started playing the game. I think I am about 3 hours into it which is basically the first 2 missions. I am lovin it so far. I don't see why people hate it so much. The story and presentation is just as great as ME1/2. The graphics are much better. Nothing groundbreaking but their are very pleasing to look at. The gameplay is very similar to ME2. It has been slightly improved with some really nice additions which make the combat much more engaging.

     

    My advice to anyone who is considering buying the game is to NOT read reviews. If you enjoyed Mass Effect 1 & 2, there is ABSOLUTELY NO reason why you shouldn't like ME3. If you loved ME1 and 2, you will love ME3.

    If you didn't like Mass Effect 1 & 2, then ME3 is NOT going to change your mind. It stays true to the series.

    If you have never played Mass Effect, then don't buy ME3. Start with ME1 then ME2 then ME3. Mass Effect 3 is not a game which you can just pick up without playing the prequels. It's not only slight nuances which you will not  be able to appreciate. You will simply not understand what the game is about. It really doesn't have the same impact if you just picked up ME3 without playing the previous games.

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • iceman00iceman00 Westland, MIPosts: 1,363Member

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    "Should one really let something like a business decision to sell DLC on first day, price politics and digital retail optionsbe part of the Games Review?"

    Well, yes, when many games are made like snacks nowadays, with an intense but limited experience in scope and size. In this case there have been reports of people saying the game offers only a third of the gameplay its predecessor offered. So the Day 1 DLC is kind of adding insult to injury and seems like a shameless money grab because the vanilla game could have done with some more oomph in the first place.

    Personally I think the industry's move towards DLC as a whole is a bad thing. It's something different than extensive expansions released after a year or so; it stimulates releasing games like a car without a wind shield and only a 10 gallon fuel tank; low on content and missing certain appealing features which people would pay money for.

    Big companies are cashing in on their own and their big IP's reputations by forgetting about the ideal of "releasing the best game possible in its genre" towards a more clever marketing focussed approach with additional premium offers.

    Saying ME3 only offers a third of play that ME2 offered, someone really doesn't know what the hell they are talking about.  The "main quest" you might be able to finish in 10-15 hours, just like you could in ME2.  Yet you wanna know what?  Just like in ME2, your going to get wiped.  You won't have any war readiness, your chances of the assault will be almost nil, and your ending will be crap.

    If you are playing the game that way, then you are doing it wrong.  The whole point of ME3 is to build up a war effort.  I would say that for the completionist, ME3 is bigger.   I've done around 12 hours right now, and I am only just past the first act.

    My beef with the Prothean DLC isn't that it was day one DLC, but that it was 10 bucks.  Honestly, having the character in the game, outside of 30 seconds of initial interesting story dialogue..... if you didn't have the character, you honestly won't notice.  The car is still functioning.  This just adds chrome rims on it.  hardly neccessary, in no way detracts from the car, but some cosmetic stuff.

  • iceman00iceman00 Westland, MIPosts: 1,363Member

    Originally posted by Krasnij

    If you look at Mass Effect 3 and Review it, what does really matter to make the score!

    Should one really let something like a business decision to sell DLC on first day, price politics and digital retail optionsbe part of the Games Review?

    Isnt that the kind of information that doesnt matter for a review? Prices change after time, the game itself will be cheaper at some  point anyway. What does really matter to you as a gamer if you read a review?

    For Example for me:

    story, presentation (graphics, audio), gameplay, fun factor, game lenght and replayability

    Retail strategys and prices by publisher are not of  concern imho, they are subject to constant change and do not reflect the fun i could have with a product.

    looking forward to read what you think!

    best regards

    Kras

    On the PC Origin absolutely matters.  If you are having internet trouble, you may not be able to play the game.  That's something to take into consideration.

    It falls under accessibility.  A Single player game, accessibility matters a ton.

    Pricing, that should be taken into the stock.  Especially for things like the CE.  It's a fair question whether or not ME3 is worth 70 dollars, considering what the CE includes/doesn't include.  It is a fair debate.

  • YizleYizle Atlanta, GAPosts: 517Member

    This is based on the xbox 360 so not sure about pc or ps3 but I will assume its the same as the CE wording seems to be the same when you compare the products on Amazon.

     

    The best part of this is all the whiners who complain about the day one DLC. You do know that the Ashes DLC is just extra missions/member/content that came for free in the CE? Hence if you bought the CE there is no day one DLC unless you want some junk for your avatar.

  • MadnessRealmMadnessRealm Montreal, QCPosts: 2,716Member Uncommon

    Pricing is a very important part that needs to be considered, but that the majority of players prefer to ignore. This is exactly why the industry has shifted from making entire games with lots of content and adding large expacs, to making a short game and selling part of it as DLC.  To buy the game AND the day 1 DLC is telling Game Developers and Publishers that splitting a game into parts than selling those parts seperately is fine. It is not. There is absolutely no reason why one should have to pay $60 for a game that's not even complete, and spend an additional $10-20 for a "DLC" that was taken out of the game and sold at the same day as release. It's an utterly despicable method, and people are buying into this. Ridiculous.

     

     

    As for Piracy, Gabe Newell said it best.

    "In general, we think there is a fundamental misconception about piracy. Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem. For example, if a pirate offers a product anywhere in the world, 24 x 7, purchasable from the convenience of your personal computer, and the legal provider says the product is region-locked, will come to your country 3 months after the U.S. release, and can only be purchased at a brick and mortar store, then the pirate's service is more valuable. Most DRM solutions diminish the value of the product by either directly restricting a customers use or by creating uncertainty."

    ------
    Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,664Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Yizle

    This is based on the xbox 360 so not sure about pc or ps3 but I will assume its the same as the CE wording seems to be the same when you compare the products on Amazon.

     

    The best part of this is all the whiners who complain about the day one DLC. You do know that the Ashes DLC is just extra missions/member/content that came for free in the CE? Hence if you bought the CE there is no day one DLC unless you want some junk for your avatar.

    Don't try to reason with them .I've been trying to explain this several times now but people just don't want to listen. They are on their self-righteous crusade to rid the gaming world of evil companies like BioWare. They would praise the games of old and will make wild unfounded generalisations about the state of the gaming industry at the moment. If you don't hate on BioWare they will just say that because of people like YOU the industry is in this state.

     

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • KrasnijKrasnij ViennaPosts: 40Member

    I think i just made a good deal , i  ordererd ME3 per amazon, i live in europe, i payed 45euros for it, the dlc cost me 6 euros, which ibought, so i came to a price of 51 euro in total, origin wants to sell me ME3 without from ashes for 56 euros, so i made a better deal and am currently playing the game. so far, i like it.

    best regards

    Kras

  • PivotelitePivotelite Hamilton, ONPosts: 2,167Member

    Originally posted by fivoroth

    Originally posted by Yizle

    This is based on the xbox 360 so not sure about pc or ps3 but I will assume its the same as the CE wording seems to be the same when you compare the products on Amazon.

     

    The best part of this is all the whiners who complain about the day one DLC. You do know that the Ashes DLC is just extra missions/member/content that came for free in the CE? Hence if you bought the CE there is no day one DLC unless you want some junk for your avatar.

    Don't try to reason with them .I've been trying to explain this several times now but people just don't want to listen. They are on their self-righteous crusade to rid the gaming world of evil companies like BioWare. They would praise the games of old and will make wild unfounded generalisations about the state of the gaming industry at the moment. If you don't hate on BioWare they will just say that because of people like YOU the industry is in this state.

     Makes sense, you get the DLC "FREE" when you pay $20 more. Wow, we sure are hard to reason with, how didn't I realize the dlc was free, derp.

    image

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Boring, TXPosts: 1,171Member Uncommon

    There are very few human beings on this planet who are willing to not purchase something in order to send a message.

     

    *Edit*, gonna rip this from reddit

    "Think of a hot chick(BF3/ME3) with AIDS (Origin/DLC/etc) - dealbreaker no matter how hot she is."

     

    Another stated piracy is cure for AIDS, I'd say it's more of not spreading it around.

  • DameonkDameonk Ewa Beach, HIPosts: 1,914Member

    Originally posted by laserit

    It's just like any business, they have to find a way to minimise it. Just like stores find ways to minimise shop lifting, all the scanners and video survielance etc. etc.

    It's actually not the same at all.  Real stores have reactive security systems in place.

    After someone steals the camers are used to ID the person or the alarms go off after the theft has taken place.

    DRM is a proactive security system.  Just like the security scans at the airport, only even more invasive.  Today's DRM methods are more akin to everyone that goes through airport security has to have a rectal exam before being allowed to fly.

    If people were stealing from you, you would come up with ways to try  to stop them. It wouldnt matter how many or how much they stole from you.

    True, and some would argue that internet piracy is not stealing since no product is actually being taken the company or store that would sell the product is not actually losing any money.  The are losing the potential to make money, which means absolutely nothing.

    If you stop and think about the issue for a second you will see that the media insdustry and their billions of dollars are making a non-issue seem like a huge problem.

    Would you consider Google a criminal organization?  Google pirates millions of articles and pictures.  They put links to the actual website the information was taken from, but you don't have to go there to see it.

    Would you consider someone who photo copies an article out of a magazine and then gives the copies to their friends a criminal that should be fined?  They are taking revenue away from the magazine, after all.

    DRM is the price we pay, because of the pricks stealing... pure and simple.

    DRM is the price we pay for game studios being run by idiots that would rather spend millions trying to prevent something they will never be able to, instead of spending that money to understand the reason their products are being pirated in the first place.

    I hate paying for my gas upfront when I refuel my vehicle and being under video survielance when I do. But I dont blame the gas station or the oil company's for that.

    I think this is the way most people feel.  But if the gas station inacted a DRM-style anti-theft system you may change your attitude a bit. 

    Imagine if, before you could buy gas, you had to sign up for an account and they need all of your personal information and a scan of your photo id, for security.  Every type of station will need a different account, of course.   Your personal information and picture gets entered into some semi-secure database somewhere in the world so that it can later be sold to advertising companies. 

    Now that your account's all set up it's time to log in at the pump.  So you put in your username and password and let it scan your face, but there's some error in the facial recognition, so you try again, same error.  You get the gas station attendant over to see what the issue is and they shine up the lense a bit with a rag and now it confirms your identity correctly.

    Oh, but wait, the internet connection is down, your account could not be verified. 

    Sorry, you can't buy gas right now.  What's that?  You have cash?  Well, sorry, you still need to verify your account first, you know, security. 

    I'm just playing devil's advocate here.  I do not participate in any type of piracy.  While I do not agree with the laws, I still follow them.

    Some further reading for anyone interested: http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/Another-view-of-game-piracy

    "There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."

  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,664Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Pivotelite

    Originally posted by fivoroth


    Originally posted by Yizle

    This is based on the xbox 360 so not sure about pc or ps3 but I will assume its the same as the CE wording seems to be the same when you compare the products on Amazon.

     

    The best part of this is all the whiners who complain about the day one DLC. You do know that the Ashes DLC is just extra missions/member/content that came for free in the CE? Hence if you bought the CE there is no day one DLC unless you want some junk for your avatar.

    Don't try to reason with them .I've been trying to explain this several times now but people just don't want to listen. They are on their self-righteous crusade to rid the gaming world of evil companies like BioWare. They would praise the games of old and will make wild unfounded generalisations about the state of the gaming industry at the moment. If you don't hate on BioWare they will just say that because of people like YOU the industry is in this state.

     Makes sense, you get the DLC "FREE" when you pay $20 more. Wow, we sure are hard to reason with, how didn't I realize the dlc was free, derp.

    So do you guys also whine when a Collector's Edition of a game gives you in-game content? If the DLC was part of the CE game and you couldn't get it any other way, would that be acceptable?

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Personally I think the industry's move towards DLC as a whole is a bad thing. It's something different than extensive expansions released after a year or so; it stimulates releasing games like a car without a wind shield and only a 10 gallon fuel tank; low on content and missing certain appealing features which people would pay money for.

    Agreed. The only way to stop this kind of gouging is to wait six months to a year and buy the collection. Of course, the majority of junkies, I mean gamers, would have to do the same to get that to work lol. image

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • AdamTMAdamTM Frankfurt Am MainPosts: 1,376Member

    Originally posted by laserit

     

    I hate paying for my gas upfront when I refuel my vehicle and being under video survielance when I do. But I dont blame the gas station or the oil company's for that.

     

    I guess this is a cultural thing, because the upfront payment for your gas in europe wouldn't fly under customer protection laws.

    If you were willing to accept this practice when it was introduced, well, poor you (collective "you"), now you are stuck with it.

    I would immediately complain to the station and company or quit buying from a station with that practice at all. If it was a law i would oppose it with all my strenght as a consumer and citizen.

    image
  • jdnewelljdnewell Spring Hill, TNPosts: 2,150Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by fivoroth

    I just started playing the game. I think I am about 3 hours into it which is basically the first 2 missions. I am lovin it so far. I don't see why people hate it so much. The story and presentation is just as great as ME1/2. The graphics are much better. Nothing groundbreaking but their are very pleasing to look at. The gameplay is very similar to ME2. It has been slightly improved with some really nice additions which make the combat much more engaging.

     

    My advice to anyone who is considering buying the game is to NOT read reviews. If you enjoyed Mass Effect 1 & 2, there is ABSOLUTELY NO reason why you shouldn't like ME3. If you loved ME1 and 2, you will love ME3.

    If you didn't like Mass Effect 1 & 2, then ME3 is NOT going to change your mind. It stays true to the series.

    If you have never played Mass Effect, then don't buy ME3. Start with ME1 then ME2 then ME3. Mass Effect 3 is not a game which you can just pick up without playing the prequels. It's not only slight nuances which you will not  be able to appreciate. You will simply not understand what the game is about. It really doesn't have the same impact if you just picked up ME3 without playing the previous games.

    This mirrors my thoughts on ME3.

    I preordered with origin when they offered BF3 free with ME3 preorders. I figured that was a pretty good deal despite the day 1 DLC issue ( which I dont agree with at all ).

    Having played ME3 for around 6 or 7 hours I like it so far. I enjoyed ME1 & 2 tho. If you didnt like those or never played them then my advice is to skip ME3 altogether or go play ME1 & 2 and see how you like those.

    Its nothing just ground breaking but overall its a fun game, especially if your a fan or the 1st two.

     

    Just my 2cp

  • PalladinPalladin Atlanta, GAPosts: 426Member

    WHOO HOOO crap reviews it will hit the bargin bin faster for me

    AMD Phenum II x4 3.6Ghz 975 black edition
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  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Dameonk

    Originally posted by laserit



    *snip*

    *snip*

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/116242-Witcher-Studio-Chief-Vows-No-More-DRM

    While it's easy to believe DRM is a necessary evil due to pirating - hell, it makes sense and seems logical - this isn't the case. It's a response to pirating, but it's not even remotely successful. Not a single person here can, nor will they ever, be able to give me JUST ONE SINGLE GAME where the DRM kept pirates at bay. Not a single one has done it. Not even the ones that require Windows Live/Steam/etc. It just doesn't work. Meanwhile, the people who actually do legitimately buy their games are the only ones that have to deal with the over-complications and pitfalls of DRM. Clearly, the guys behind Witcher 2 realize this. With any luck, more game studios will pull their heads from their bum and take notice as well.

     

    As for people that don't understand why people are hating on Mass Effect 3, I noticed all of them are only "a few hours in" or what have you. The most vocal minority are the ones complaining about DLC. The majority have a very specific complaint, detailed in a 600 page discussion on BSN forums, a poll of almost 10,000 votes and a petition of almost 1,000 at this point. My answer to you is that you play the game to the end and then give your opinion as, for most people, the last 5-10 minutes of the game is where the hate is coming from.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

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