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Lets admit it - GW2 is a "second game" gamers like GW

13

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  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomePosts: 3,538Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Mustarastas

    I dont want to argue over this - or negate your high expectations of the game - but few points to discuss:

     

    a) GW has always been a "second game" for most players.

    b) Why is that? Cause it has no subscription, its easy, and almost f2p.

    c) Dynamic events arent that special. Warhammer had those, Rift has those (Instant adventures was implemented alongside with Rifts). You can play those for an hour or two at most, but after that it gets boring grind.

    d) Lets face it. NcSoft/AreneNet sucks hard time in making endgame content. NcSoft hasnt really succeeded in making anything properly on mass-scale. Lets see Lineage2/Aion Mass pvp that lags so much that you have hard time telling what is happening. GW is the only succesfull NcSoft end game product, but, if I may ask, if the games name already is Guild Wars, then for how long can you be bothered to play a different forms of pvp-only only as end game? Warhammer failed hard time with this concept as did Darkfall. If you say, go do dynamic events, then read my point (c).

    a) It has been my main game for a long time. Especially because for a long time it was the only MMORPG (or CORPG whatever) that had PVP that interested me. But yeah, after that it became a game I went back to in between other games. This doesnt make GW1 a 'second' game for me. I would've done the same with some p2p games, but the problem with that was having to resub.

    b) I think that it makes more sense to make your point b part of a. GW1 is definately not easier then any other MMO out there. Try some of the dungeons in GW1 in hardmode without reading a guide.

    c) Yeah, so according to you dynamic events == public quests from WAR. *sigh*

    d) NCSoft isnt developing GW2. And didnt develop GW1. ARENANET ffs. So there is no reason to start talking about L2/Aion in this context. Those were developed by a different company.

    I'm willing to admit that you are just another uninformed person.

     

  • daniel!!!daniel!!! nottinghamPosts: 400Member

    Originally posted by Mustarastas

    I dont want to argue over this - or negate your high expectations of the game - but few points to discuss:

     

    a) GW has always been a "second game" for most players.

    b) Why is that? Cause it has no subscription, its easy, and almost f2p.

    c) Dynamic events arent that special. Warhammer had those, Rift has those (Instant adventures was implemented alongside with Rifts). You can play those for an hour or two at most, but after that it gets boring grind.

    d) Lets face it. NcSoft/AreneNet sucks hard time in making endgame content. NcSoft hasnt really succeeded in making anything properly on mass-scale. Lets see Lineage2/Aion Mass pvp that lags so much that you have hard time telling what is happening. GW is the only succesfull NcSoft end game product, but, if I may ask, if the games name already is Guild Wars, then for how long can you be bothered to play a different forms of pvp-only only as end game? Warhammer failed hard time with this concept as did Darkfall. If you say, go do dynamic events, then read my point (c).

    the point that you put i dont want to argue, then put it on a forum is absolute trolling....

     

    and Guild Wars was never my second game, it was my first, the one i focused on, because even if the endgame wasnt the greatest it was at least fun, unlike wow, rift and god knows what else where it was all about having the best equipment otherwise no one would invite you.

    image

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,230Member Uncommon

    well, other people would say if it ain't lineage, it ain't propper "mass pvp" or rather siege.

     

     

    seriously dudes, stop hating, hate does not offer anything positive ^^

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • NaralNaral Solway, MNPosts: 751Member

    Meh, for some people, the OP will be absolutely 100% spot on, I have no doubt. For me, who knows. It will depend on the game.

    I have to admit to being a bit skeptical about DEs being the next best thing to sliced bread. I think there are going to be ample opportunities for them to become every bit as stale as traditional quest hub levelling, and sooner than folks think. I hope I am wrong, but maybe not.

    For me it could be a second game, if TSW is decent.  The point is, who gives a crap? I mean, so what if it is all the things you said it was, OP? If people have fun playing it, and feel like they got their money's worth, does it really matter?

    I would agree that this game will probably fall short of many's people's unrealistic expectations, but who am I to judge? I am one of seven people left on this site who still like SWTOR. ;-)

    And with that in mind, GW2 will probably blow my mind. =)

    The truth is, the only reason I am not all that super excited, is I am just sick and tired of the fantasy genre MMORPGs. Probably why I am hanging on to SWTOR harder than I normally would. 

  • MorcotulconMorcotulcon LisbonPosts: 262Member Common

    Originally posted by Kakkzooka

    I like crystal balls.

    This! The best post on the Thread!

    Some people just need to stop expecting Guild Wars 2 to "fail". Theory crap without any fact whatsoever. Wait for the game to release please.

  • alkarionlogalkarionlog SPosts: 1,124Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Mustarastas

    I dont want to argue over this - or negate your high expectations of the game - but few points to discuss:

     

    a) GW has always been a "second game" for most players.

    b) Why is that? Cause it has no subscription, its easy, and almost f2p.

    c) Dynamic events arent that special. Warhammer had those, Rift has those (Instant adventures was implemented alongside with Rifts). You can play those for an hour or two at most, but after that it gets boring grind.

    d) Lets face it. NcSoft/AreneNet sucks hard time in making endgame content. NcSoft hasnt really succeeded in making anything properly on mass-scale. Lets see Lineage2/Aion Mass pvp that lags so much that you have hard time telling what is happening. GW is the only succesfull NcSoft end game product, but, if I may ask, if the games name already is Guild Wars, then for how long can you be bothered to play a different forms of pvp-only only as end game? Warhammer failed hard time with this concept as did Darkfall. If you say, go do dynamic events, then read my point (c).

    after some time yes it will become a person second game, but a second game is better then you just leave it behind and later become a f2p to gather more peeps and then abuse of CS because we have people stupid enough to spend 10k on a top weapon.

     

    dynamic events you can't say what it is till the game launch, till now I know its looks like the rifts in RIFT, it happens at anytime you can't controll it and with more peeps more difiicult it would become, at least that was one thing nice in rift.

     

    better then wow raid grind skill spam for endgame, L2 and AION have a better endgame then wow have, WAR HAMMER failed not because its was pvp game but because it had several bugs and unbalanced classes, not considerationg most people choose chaos side because the art work was better for chaos side, darkfall same problem several bugs and exploits who make people be top skill lvl killing people and looting they corpse didn't help.

     

    dude its ok you say you don't like the game or so but at least try to find some real info

    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
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  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member
    Food for thought...

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • BrokenSpoonBrokenSpoon LondonPosts: 205Member

    ?! All games become second games to some people at some point, who gives a flying sh*t though? Will this game be good in 1 year? Dunno.. Will it be my "second game"? dunno... will I be playing this in 2 years time? Dunno... Who fking knows? what a uselsss topic :P 

    All hail the Barn Owl! oh.. and the RED SQUIRREL!!!

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    Originally posted by TangentPoint

    Originally posted by Mustarastas

    I dont want to argue over this - or negate your high expectations of the game - but few points to discuss:

    You're posting a controversial topic and making absolute statements without providing any data to back them up, and you don't want anyone to argue it? So, was your expectation that everyone would just say "oh, well, Mustarastas must be right. Obviously they know what they're talking about and are in possession of objective data to back up what they say, or they wouldn't have posted it! So let's not argue their statements, and just discuss why they're right"?

    a) GW has always been a "second game" for most players.

    Has it? For most? You have actual numbers to back that up?

    Personally, I've met plenty of people who played it as their main game for years, as well as those who played it on and off, as well as those who've played it as a "second game", as you describe.

    b) Why is that? Cause it has no subscription, its easy, and almost f2p.

    Again, perhaps for some that's the case. There are people who play it as their main game simply because they really enjoy playing it as their main game. No subscription is a bonus. How "easy" it is or isn't is irrelevant because that's entirely subjective. It's not "almost f2p". There is no "almost". It is, or it isn't. You have to buy the games, the original and all expansions, in order to play at all. If you have to pay for something, it isn't free, almost or otherwise.

    And anyway, what do any of those things have to do with whether people play it as their main game or not? All kinds of people play all kinds of games as primary and secondary, even tertiary games, for all kinds of reasons.

    c) Dynamic events arent that special. Warhammer had those, Rift has those (Instant adventures was implemented alongside with Rifts). You can play those for an hour or two at most, but after that it gets boring grind.

    You seem to be making the common mistake that so many make on forums in that you assume whatever you feel about something must be what everyone else feels about it.

    Whether or not Dynamic events are special, to you , has absolutely nothing to do with how others feel about them. Also, that Rift or Warhammer, or any other MMO has/had them is absolutely irrelevant. Not everyone plays, or has played those games and not everyone who does or has necessarily enjoyed their implementation.

    d) Lets face it. NcSoft/AreneNet sucks hard time in making endgame content. NcSoft hasnt really succeeded in making anything properly on mass-scale. Lets see Lineage2/Aion Mass pvp that lags so much that you have hard time telling what is happening. GW is the only succesfull NcSoft end game product, but, if I may ask, if the games name already is Guild Wars, then for how long can you be bothered to play a different forms of pvp-only only as end game? Warhammer failed hard time with this concept as did Darkfall. If you say, go do dynamic events, then read my point (c).

    Really, I seem to remember my frame rate dropping at times during sieges in L2, but never to the point that I couldn't see what was happening or be involved. Sieges have been one of the cornerstones of Lineage 2 for years. If they were as bad as you make them sound, it's kinda doubtful they'd have been as successful as they have for as long as they have.

    Is it a lag-fest for people who are trying to run the game in full settings at a siege when their systems clearly are underpowered to do so? Probably. But that has more to do with the player choosing not to turn down settings to something their system can handle, than it does to do with the game itself. You also don't need a power-house to play it. I've never had a high end machine, and since NC began to optimize the engine and character rendering real early on (talking around C1-C3 here), I've never had bad lag at all at sieges.

    But people don't even have to take my word for it. Go to youtube, look up castle sieges and check out many of the videos. You'll see really crappy, laggy ones. But you'll also see plenty of those that are very smooth and not even remotely as bad as you make them sound. Same goes for footage of mass PvP.

    Here's just one example I found in a quick YouTube search: Click Kinda cool finding that vid, in paricular. I knew, or knew of a number of the players in it from my time playing. MysticLance was a trip.

     

    Anyway, you're entitled to your opinions just as much as anyone else. You really should take some time to differentiate between what is assumption or opinion, and what is actual fact before posting things like you did. There's almost nothing in your entire post that could actually be called fact, outside of Warhammer Online and Rift having dynamic events, and even that's been up for debate.

    +1, thanks for saving me the time of writing this up :).

     

    You know, this thread is actually fairly typical of these forums.  And I'm sure some people will look to this thread as an example of GW's "bad community" and how we just snap at anyone with the slightest criticism.

    But please, just read the Tangent's response to the OP.  The OP just lists a bunch of random baseless arguments and then just randomly concludes GW2 will just be a "second game."  I mean, it would be like if I went to the SWTOR forums while the NDA was still up and said:

    I'm not even going to bother arguing about this, but admit it, SWTOR will always be the "second game" for people because...

    A.  It is made by EA and EA is only good at making Madden.

    B.  It is sci-fi and everyone knows fantasy is better.

    C.  Everyone knows Knights of the Old Republic was terrible and EA/Bioware won't do any better with SWTOR.

    Now if I posted that drivel over on the SWTOR forums prior to the NDA drop, I would have gotten torn apart...and deservedly so.  To be honest, I think that the responses to the OP have been remarkably civil, given the absolute inanity of his arguments.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • RaysheRayshe London, ONPosts: 1,284Member

    Ill agree to the game being a second game but not because of your reasoning. the only thing i see that makes it a second game is because of its Buy To Play model. The game actually looks reletively good from my perspective. Don't clump me in with the fans either i have no interest in this game. your just talking out of your ass OP.

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • fonyfony hempstead, NYPosts: 755Member

    it'll be the "second game" like the Wii is the "second console", meaning the game will outsell everything except WoW(once again) and be the "only game" to the majority of its player base.

  • ArconaArcona VanlosePosts: 1,185Member

    during the beta weekend the devs defended a keep for 10 hours straight, I dont know many "2nd games" you need that kind of attention to the game with a purpose other than grinding to max level or raiding dungeons?

  • HeroEvermoreHeroEvermore salem, ORPosts: 672Member

    100% agree with A and B (the rest is opinion). GW2 will be one of my 2nd games. much like starcraft 2 has been for the last year+

    It isnt the mmorpg time-sync that i prefer. it is a perfect 2nd game. I am enjoying the beta and when I am not feeling like playing Tera online im sure you will find me in GW2 at those times. Not having a monthly sub makes it a great "im currently bored of my main game today".

     

    Im not sure why there is so much negative feedback on this post because it is there opinion even if stated as a fact.

     

    (not a gw2 fanboy, disliked gw1 a lot. this game is better though. I PLAY GW2 BETA)

    Hero Evermore
    Guild Master of Dragonspine since 1982.
    Playing Path of Exile and deeply in love with it.

  • MephsterMephster Tyria, NJPosts: 1,188Member

    Guild Wars a second game for most players ? Try first game for 5+ years for millions of players. Next.... :)

    Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!

    http://www.grimdawn.com/

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    Originally posted by alkarionlog

    Originally posted by Mustarastas

    I dont want to argue over this - or negate your high expectations of the game - but few points to discuss:

     

    a) GW has always been a "second game" for most players.

    b) Why is that? Cause it has no subscription, its easy, and almost f2p.

    c) Dynamic events arent that special. Warhammer had those, Rift has those (Instant adventures was implemented alongside with Rifts). You can play those for an hour or two at most, but after that it gets boring grind.

    d) Lets face it. NcSoft/AreneNet sucks hard time in making endgame content. NcSoft hasnt really succeeded in making anything properly on mass-scale. Lets see Lineage2/Aion Mass pvp that lags so much that you have hard time telling what is happening. GW is the only succesfull NcSoft end game product, but, if I may ask, if the games name already is Guild Wars, then for how long can you be bothered to play a different forms of pvp-only only as end game? Warhammer failed hard time with this concept as did Darkfall. If you say, go do dynamic events, then read my point (c).

    after some time yes it will become a person second game, but a second game is better then you just leave it behind and later become a f2p to gather more peeps and then abuse of CS because we have people stupid enough to spend 10k on a top weapon.

     

    dynamic events you can't say what it is till the game launch, till now I know its looks like the rifts in RIFT, it happens at anytime you can't controll it and with more peeps more difiicult it would become, at least that was one thing nice in rift.

     

    better then wow raid grind skill spam for endgame, L2 and AION have a better endgame then wow have, WAR HAMMER failed not because its was pvp game but because it had several bugs and unbalanced classes, not considerationg most people choose chaos side because the art work was better for chaos side, darkfall same problem several bugs and exploits who make people be top skill lvl killing people and looting they corpse didn't help.

     

    dude its ok you say you don't like the game or so but at least try to find some real info

    I just don't get why people literally imagine a bunch of random assumptions about a game, and then proceed to argue how said game will fail, or be a second game, or whatever, based on these assumptions.  TBH, I've never seen this phenomenon more than with GW2.  

    SWTOR got a lot of hate even prior to the NDA drop, but it was typically due to things people actually KNEW about the game.  Like the graphic quality, focus on story, reliance on the WoW model, etc.  I just don't see the point in concluding that a game will fail and then just making up reasons why.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • gainesvilleggainesvilleg Gainesville, FLPosts: 1,053Member

    Originally posted by Mephster

    Guild Wars a second game for most players ? Try first game for 5+ years for millions of players. Next.... :)

    And this fact is exactly why I don't trust the hype for GW2.  I want to.  I want GW2 to be great.  Some of the features definately sound cool (others less so).  But, although I understand lots of people liked GW1 (including most of those hyping GW2) but I honestly, not trying to be a hater, but honestly would rank GW1 as one of the 10 worst games I've ever played.  The fact that most of those hyping GW2 also liked GW1 makes me think "Well, maybe it's just not for me."

    I can accept that.  But I'll be jealous if others are having fun and I can't LOL...

     

    GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
    1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
    2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    Originally posted by deziwright

    100% agree with this. GW2 will be one of my 2nd games. much like starcraft 2 has been for the last year+

    It isnt the mmorpg time-sync that i prefer. it is a perfect 2nd game. I am enjoying the beta and when I am not feeling like playing Tera online im sure you will find me in GW2 at those times. Not having a monthly sub makes it a great "im currently bored of my main game today".

     

    Im not sure why there is so much negative feedback on this post because it is there opinion even if stated as a fact.

     

    (not a gw2 fanboy, disliked gw1 a lot. this game is better though. I PLAY GW2 BETA)

    Your post is perfectly reasonable, because you make it clear that it's all your opinion.  I personally despise raiding, but I know other people like it, and that's cool.

    The reason the OP is getting "attacked" is exactly why you say...it's opinion stated as fact.  And not only that, all his arguments are ridiculous.

    He's not arguing that GW2 will be his second game...he's arguing that GW2 will be a second game.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • RaysheRayshe London, ONPosts: 1,284Member

    On second thought, GW2 does have a strong chance of being a first game simply because of their demograpic. ill use TSW as a example (as i always do) GW2 has what TSW doesn't offer, that being said TSW has what GW2 doesn't offer. thus GW2 has to compete with TERA and pre exisiting games. TSW and GW2 are too different and wont be directly competeing with eachother. Everything else that is being released other than TSW GW2 and TERA are sandboxes. so do people really believe that GW2 can't beat TERA, i find this thought laughable, GW2 has the stronger support between the 2. This is the best time for GW2 to release seeing as the competition for their demographic has little that can challenge them. Put out a product that can compete in a strong market when the market is middle to weak at best and it will be a success.

     

    once again, i'm not a GW2 fan, but the OP is talking out of his ass.

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • ForumPvPForumPvP KingstownPosts: 871Member

    After ArcheAge,Kingdom Under Fire 2 , Firefall,Planetside 2, and whatever theres coming,it might be my "5th game" but because i dont need to pay monthly fees,well well well it might be my "top game" just Like NetHack,its my "Top Game" of all time,and i can play that whenever i want.

    Hard question ,right now i thinks it will be my 2½ game maybe 3 game or maybe 1 or even 42.

     

     

     

    Let's internet

  • XzenXzen Los Alamos, NMPosts: 2,607Member Common

    Cool story bro.

  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Common

    Originally posted by Mustarastas

    I dont want to argue over this - or negate your high expectations of the game - but few points to discuss:

     

    a) GW has always been a "second game" for most players.

    Source of your data please.

  • MetentsoMetentso BarcelonaPosts: 1,436Member Common

    It will be a second game until people realize they are paying for a game they don't play anymore.

  • ZeroxinZeroxin LondonPosts: 2,521Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Mustarastas

    I dont want to argue over this - or negate your high expectations of the game - but few points to discuss:

     

    a) GW has always been a "second game" for most players.

    b) Why is that? Cause it has no subscription, its easy, and almost f2p.

    c) Dynamic events arent that special. Warhammer had those, Rift has those (Instant adventures was implemented alongside with Rifts). You can play those for an hour or two at most, but after that it gets boring grind.

    d) Lets face it. NcSoft/AreneNet sucks hard time in making endgame content. NcSoft hasnt really succeeded in making anything properly on mass-scale. Lets see Lineage2/Aion Mass pvp that lags so much that you have hard time telling what is happening. GW is the only succesfull NcSoft end game product, but, if I may ask, if the games name already is Guild Wars, then for how long can you be bothered to play a different forms of pvp-only only as end game? Warhammer failed hard time with this concept as did Darkfall. If you say, go do dynamic events, then read my point (c).

    My question to you is, what does it matter? 

    And because you're so smart you forgot to read about the game, I'll fill you in on a couple of things. Dynamic events and PvP are not the only things you can do in the game. Now get your smartass out of here.

    This is not a game.

  • FalcomithFalcomith Hastings, FLPosts: 800Member

    Clearly the OP hasnt done much research on GW2. Especially when he goes on about the dynamic events. He simply doesnt understand that the dynamic events effect the environment and has many many phases to it over a large scale. Being a gamer who loved and played Warhammer and has played Rift to mid 40s, the events cant compare to GW2 as described and shown in videos as that is comparing apples to oranges. GW2 will own dynamic events if what they say and shown is true, and I dont see why it wouldnt.

  • IPolygonIPolygon ViennaPosts: 707Member Uncommon

    Of all the second games in my library, GW1 is by far my most enjoyable. I don't know what my first game is, though. I am not even sure what a second or first game is for that matter as I constantly switch between games to keep an open mind and play the best games on most platforms.

This discussion has been closed.