"Because it wasn’t the game I loved. That game died in 2005 with the NGE/CU. It died when developers turned their backs on the gamers who had spent the effort and instead listened to the lazy, whining voices who wanted it all given to them."
Here is why the article is a lot of bull. there is no way he was smart enough to make nearly 100k per year off the game, yet come to ths conclusion as to what hapened with SWG.
LA and SoE didnt listen to lazy, whining voices at all. They listened to WoW's subscription numbers. And they wanted a piece of those numbers. LA thought people wanted a more iconic star wars experience, so SoE tried to do that. And it was a failure.
Not because of listening to whiney people, but because of not listening to anyone
"Because it wasn’t the game I loved. That game died in 2005 with the NGE/CU. It died when developers turned their backs on the gamers who had spent the effort and instead listened to the lazy, whining voices who wanted it all given to them."
Here is why the article is a lot of bull. there is no way he was smart enough to make nearly 100k per year off the game, yet come to ths conclusion as to what hapened with SWG.
LA and SoE didnt listen to lazy, whining voices at all. They listened to WoW's subscription numbers. And they wanted a piece of those numbers. LA thought people wanted a more iconic star wars experience, so SoE tried to do that. And it was a failure.
Not because of listening to whiney people, but because of not listening to anyone
Well actually, anyone who listens to the WoW subscription numbers is listenting to the lazy mass...
"Because it wasn’t the game I loved. That game died in 2005 with the NGE/CU. It died when developers turned their backs on the gamers who had spent the effort and instead listened to the lazy, whining voices who wanted it all given to them."
Here is why the article is a lot of bull. there is no way he was smart enough to make nearly 100k per year off the game, yet come to ths conclusion as to what hapened with SWG.
LA and SoE didnt listen to lazy, whining voices at all. They listened to WoW's subscription numbers. And they wanted a piece of those numbers. LA thought people wanted a more iconic star wars experience, so SoE tried to do that. And it was a failure.
Not because of listening to whiney people, but because of not listening to anyone
Well actually, anyone who listens to the WoW subscription numbers is listenting to the lazy mass...
You all can't really believ this guy is telling the truth ?
You seriously believe that he did all this ?
Sorry i am not calling any of the posters here liars but it really comes across as naive if you really believe that guys blog.
Yeah, I’m kinda leaning towards disbelief myself. There were a few things that just don’t add up…like asking his buddy how the economy would work…like anyone truly interested the game (10 years ago) really gave that much of a **edit** about the in-game economy …plus these…
Sold his 1st business at 21 (could happen, just happens to internet geeks most it seems)
8 computers set-up in one room (obviously it can be done, but would require additional outlets/dedicated breakers)
8 CRTs running would melt his house
Employing Taiwanese kids
Selling gold to the gold farmers (like they just sat around waiting for his credits)
I’m not saying he’s lying…but…there is so much this guy claims to have accomplished (on 4 servers) that I find it very difficult to believe him. He may very well believe he was this brilliant mastermind…but…if what he claims is anywhere near accurate; he was a petty gold farmer, nothing more.
"Because it wasn’t the game I loved. That game died in 2005 with the NGE/CU. It died when developers turned their backs on the gamers who had spent the effort and instead listened to the lazy, whining voices who wanted it all given to them."
Here is why the article is a lot of bull. there is no way he was smart enough to make nearly 100k per year off the game, yet come to ths conclusion as to what hapened with SWG.
LA and SoE didnt listen to lazy, whining voices at all. They listened to WoW's subscription numbers. And they wanted a piece of those numbers. LA thought people wanted a more iconic star wars experience, so SoE tried to do that. And it was a failure.
Not because of listening to whiney people, but because of not listening to anyone
Well actually, anyone who listens to the WoW subscription numbers is listenting to the lazy mass...
Your memory of Vanilla WoW is a little off
I remember Vanilla WoW being seen as easy mode by most of the MMO veterans.
I myself saw it as the best and most polished MMO ever created that combined most of the genres good points, made them 10 times better and restarted a stagnant genre. It says it all when everyone was blown away by The Dead Mines because no one had ever seen an instance like that being made for low level players and the standard was high right to the end. WoW mades UIs and movement in MMOs feel great and modern, it made combat more responsive and fast paced. I don't care what anyone says but it had the best PVP of any MMO at the DAOC because the combat was so good and it actually had great world PVP with lots of potential.
Problem is WoW never did anything with world PVP, they killed it off and the dumbed the game down over time. I don't know anyone who plays WoW anymore so I dunno who is sitll playing, most of my friends quit thanx to TBC or other expansions after. What Cataclysm did was just kill any hope of my friends ever returning to the game.
WoW is remembered for what it is today and how every MMO changed to try and clone it. It's never remembered for being being amazing in it's own right, people just blame it for games like WAR, AoC, LOTRO, SWTOR etc etc. I really hope Blizzard come along with titan and blow us all away again because no one else is clearly up to the job.
As for SOE they've ruined ever MMO they've ever made so I'm not too bothered about who to blame as SOE and LA are just as bad as each other today. I still stand by the game being ruined way before the CU thanx to all the forum whiners trying to cater to game for their own personal gain. Holocrons was a result of forum whiners, Pub 9 was the result of forum whiners, the ignoring of the reat of the game to keep on patching Jedi was the result of forum whiners. The CU as well because all people did was complain about buffs and armour stats being so high and quit the game. SWG was a big mess way before the NGE and CU and people should remember that and I personally just got pissed off at it all as the game got made easier and easier every patch.... like getting rid of TEF :
I know how I helped destroy SWG; I played WoW and payed for both. This triggered SOE's steamengine to chug forward onto the battlefield known as wow clones.
Based on my SWG experience, I think I met this person once. This person probably operated on my server based on his description of his Coronet analysis (A billionaire owned the best Coronet malls who made a lot of real $$ from SWG), and I'm forever grateful for his efforts.
Why am I grateful? Because he did us a SERVICE. Not only did I probably spend $10 getting credits from him to get my own operation started (which saved me ENORMOUS amounts of time), but his amazing mall layouts breathed life into that city. A friend of mine eventually convinced him we'd be the best Shipwright vendor in Coronet, and once he leased us a prominent vendor spot, we got easily 100 times the viewing exposure we got at the other 6 vendors we had combined. Sure, he shaved off of my profits, and I plunked down $10 to start my SWG experience, but I made so much money in so little time that I was no longer mining/prospecting/crafting full time anymore and was finally able to spend much more of my time PvPing in Deep space with the best ship components on the server.
He without doubt jumpstarted my SWG experience more than any other player. Even more than my guild.
This person (and people like him) did not destroy anything. He took a valuable area and made it extremely efficient for all. A tangible service was provided, and we paid for it instead of traveling to the backward areas to get what we wanted.
Based on my SWG experience, I think I met this person once. This person probably operated on my server based on his description of his Coronet analysis (A billionaire owned the best Coronet malls who made a lot of real $$ from SWG), and I'm forever grateful for his efforts.
Why am I grateful? Because he did us a SERVICE. Not only did I probably spend $10 getting credits from him to get my own operation started (which saved me ENORMOUS amounts of time), but his amazing mall layouts breathed life into that city. A friend of mine eventually convinced him we'd be the best Shipwright vendor in Coronet, and once he leased us a prominent vendor spot, we got easily 100 times the viewing exposure we got at the other 6 vendors we had combined. Sure, he shaved off of my profits, and I plunked down $10 to start my SWG experience, but I made so much money in so little time that I was no longer mining/prospecting/crafting full time anymore and was finally able to spend much more of my time PvPing in Deep space with the best ship components on the server.
He without doubt jumpstarted my SWG experience more than any other player. Even more than my guild.
This person (and people like him) did not destroy anything. He took a valuable area and made it extremely efficient for all. A tangible service was provided, and we paid for it instead of traveling to the backward areas to get what we wanted.
When did PC games become for lazy and low achievers? This was not always the case.
INB4 someone whines about having no time to play because of his 3 kids, wife and dead end job.
There should be no complex games available because of ME ME ME
These forums are becoming too difficult to operate. I demand that you simplifiy them, and consider the fact I don't have more than a few minutes to browse them each day. I still want the same feeling I get from a hard day of trolling though.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Why does this lack of time argument keep popping up. Many sandboxes are actually more casual friendly than games that rely on raiding as it's main content.
Why does this lack of time argument keep popping up. Many sandboxes are actually more casual friendly than games that rely on raiding as it's main content.
I agree.
Sand Boxes are less about dedicated blocks of time and more about the overall time invested as a whole. Even if in smaller chunks.
Why does this lack of time argument keep popping up. Many sandboxes are actually more casual friendly than games that rely on raiding as it's main content.
Yes, I suspect a "timesink" is gameplay without a shiny button being handed out at regular enough intervals.
A quick note before I get on to my real point below; I loved that the author mentioned the holo grind. Why? Because I had a blast doing it. You can complain about the grind if you want, but I loved killing mobs, and I loved trying the different professions I had to do to get there. By the time I unlocked my Jedi slot (that I never used, by the way), I had played professions I never would have otherwise such as Entertainer, Doctor, Weaponsmith, Armorsmith and others. I simply never thought of anything I did in this game as a "grind" in the negative sense of the word as it is used today. Sure it was a grind, but I had so much fun all the time, that I can't complain about it at all.
--------
While I was never a gold farmer or anything like that, I LOVED running a shop in that game. It was a real revelation for me after having spent the previous 5+ years playing FPS capture the flag and deathmatch games (Doom, Quake, Unreal, Tribes, etc). Even when I was allowed into SWG beta, I had no idea what I was signing up for having never played an MMO before. I had no idea that my entire view of video gaming was going to be changed. I had no idea that I was beginning a virtual life.
If you had told me that I was going to love, no, become obsessed with being a trader in a video game, I would have simply laughed. All I did was shoot people, defend the flag, and I was really damned good at it. In SWG, I loved the whole trader process. I loved surveying and placing extraction equipment on the best resources I could find as much as I did making my rounds every few days to pick up the fruits of my labor so I could build things. I spent hours doing this, and there was also a built in element of exploration and danger from mobs. I loved chatting with friends while crafting in my "shop" which was usually a back room in one of my stores. I left helping people find things, and taking orders for things I didn't have in stock, and selling resources I couldn't use myself. I could go on and on.
Crafting and trade wasn't some simple thing you did with a bit of time. It was a whole gameplay system that you could get lost in for days or weeks. I often did. I would switch back and forth between my Master Weaponsmith and my combat toon, and somtimes I would just parky my combat toon for weeks and concentrate on crafting and social aspects of the game. I made a lot of credits, met and made friends with a lot of great people, and had a blast expanding my business or buying expensive things for my combat alt. I loved decorating my homes and shops, and I loved being in a player built city that changed and evolved as our empire grew.
I like this article, not because of the gold farming, but because it gives you a glimpse of the depth a good, or even mediocre sandbox game can give you. Even non-role players like me were always in a semi-state of role playing in that game, because it was the nature of it. That's what I want back more than anything. I want the sense of community, the emmersion, the feeling of actually living in a virtual world. What we have now in most themepark games can't hold a candle to this in my opinion.
I know I will have a great time playing GW2, but there are games that get me more excited. I'm hoping we get a publisher here in the West so we can try ArchAge. I'm following a couple indy sandboxes too, sich as The Repopulation, and Pathfinder. The fact of the matter for me was that my sandbox experience in SWG ruined me for most MMO games because I know how much more depth, involvement, and community there can be. SWG, with all its many flaws, was capable of delivering on the promise of putting your brain firmly in an alternate reality because it could occupy all your senses. Contrast that with themepark games that I often play while watching a movie on my other screen because they are so one-dimensional and simple.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Based on my SWG experience, I think I met this person once. This person probably operated on my server based on his description of his Coronet analysis (A billionaire owned the best Coronet malls who made a lot of real $$ from SWG), and I'm forever grateful for his efforts.
Why am I grateful? Because he did us a SERVICE. Not only did I probably spend $10 getting credits from him to get my own operation started (which saved me ENORMOUS amounts of time), but his amazing mall layouts breathed life into that city. A friend of mine eventually convinced him we'd be the best Shipwright vendor in Coronet, and once he leased us a prominent vendor spot, we got easily 100 times the viewing exposure we got at the other 6 vendors we had combined. Sure, he shaved off of my profits, and I plunked down $10 to start my SWG experience, but I made so much money in so little time that I was no longer mining/prospecting/crafting full time anymore and was finally able to spend much more of my time PvPing in Deep space with the best ship components on the server.
He without doubt jumpstarted my SWG experience more than any other player. Even more than my guild.
This person (and people like him) did not destroy anything. He took a valuable area and made it extremely efficient for all. A tangible service was provided, and we paid for it instead of traveling to the backward areas to get what we wanted.
So then, You broke the ELUA too?
I paid $10 for 1 mil creds about a week after I started playing. That was probably breaking the EULA. Otherwise, no. I got a very good vendor spot in Coronet mall. That's hardly an exploit of any kind. The building owner (presumably the article writer) took a significant chunk of my profits, but the location/layout was picture perfect.
My point is, anyone can squat on digital real estate, but he put an enormous amount of effort into his land, and everyone benefited from it. After I made tens of millions of credits, I eventually sold my ship items at his mall way below competitive prices, and he didn't replace my vendor despite the obvious drop in profit. If he were a purely evil jerk like everyone may be led to believe, he surely wouldn't have let that go on for so long.
Why does this lack of time argument keep popping up. Many sandboxes are actually more casual friendly than games that rely on raiding as it's main content.
Winner point here.
And while people like Dawwgy or MissIntrepid did exist.. there were large groups that went out of their way to hunt down and get banned the gold farmers/sellers.
Comments
better than a hypocrite who whines about other people actually having a life outside of games.
more QQ please.
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
Time to leave that bubble of yours, don't you think?
This type of stuff still happens in EVE Online, except in a much, much larger scale.
Here is why the article is a lot of bull. there is no way he was smart enough to make nearly 100k per year off the game, yet come to ths conclusion as to what hapened with SWG.
LA and SoE didnt listen to lazy, whining voices at all. They listened to WoW's subscription numbers. And they wanted a piece of those numbers. LA thought people wanted a more iconic star wars experience, so SoE tried to do that. And it was a failure.
Not because of listening to whiney people, but because of not listening to anyone
Well actually, anyone who listens to the WoW subscription numbers is listenting to the lazy mass...
Your memory of Vanilla WoW is a little off
[mod edit]
Remember, ALL games should be dumbed down because of Me Me Me
Yeah, I’m kinda leaning towards disbelief myself. There were a few things that just don’t add up…like asking his buddy how the economy would work…like anyone truly interested the game (10 years ago) really gave that much of a **edit** about the in-game economy …plus these…
Sold his 1st business at 21 (could happen, just happens to internet geeks most it seems)
8 computers set-up in one room (obviously it can be done, but would require additional outlets/dedicated breakers)
8 CRTs running would melt his house
Employing Taiwanese kids
Selling gold to the gold farmers (like they just sat around waiting for his credits)
I’m not saying he’s lying…but…there is so much this guy claims to have accomplished (on 4 servers) that I find it very difficult to believe him. He may very well believe he was this brilliant mastermind…but…if what he claims is anywhere near accurate; he was a petty gold farmer, nothing more.
I remember Vanilla WoW being seen as easy mode by most of the MMO veterans.
I myself saw it as the best and most polished MMO ever created that combined most of the genres good points, made them 10 times better and restarted a stagnant genre. It says it all when everyone was blown away by The Dead Mines because no one had ever seen an instance like that being made for low level players and the standard was high right to the end. WoW mades UIs and movement in MMOs feel great and modern, it made combat more responsive and fast paced. I don't care what anyone says but it had the best PVP of any MMO at the DAOC because the combat was so good and it actually had great world PVP with lots of potential.
Problem is WoW never did anything with world PVP, they killed it off and the dumbed the game down over time. I don't know anyone who plays WoW anymore so I dunno who is sitll playing, most of my friends quit thanx to TBC or other expansions after. What Cataclysm did was just kill any hope of my friends ever returning to the game.
WoW is remembered for what it is today and how every MMO changed to try and clone it. It's never remembered for being being amazing in it's own right, people just blame it for games like WAR, AoC, LOTRO, SWTOR etc etc. I really hope Blizzard come along with titan and blow us all away again because no one else is clearly up to the job.
As for SOE they've ruined ever MMO they've ever made so I'm not too bothered about who to blame as SOE and LA are just as bad as each other today. I still stand by the game being ruined way before the CU thanx to all the forum whiners trying to cater to game for their own personal gain. Holocrons was a result of forum whiners, Pub 9 was the result of forum whiners, the ignoring of the reat of the game to keep on patching Jedi was the result of forum whiners. The CU as well because all people did was complain about buffs and armour stats being so high and quit the game. SWG was a big mess way before the NGE and CU and people should remember that and I personally just got pissed off at it all as the game got made easier and easier every patch.... like getting rid of TEF :
The op has quite an imagination, he would certainly be a good fiction writer
I know how I helped destroy SWG; I played WoW and payed for both. This triggered SOE's steamengine to chug forward onto the battlefield known as wow clones.
Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2
Best thread so far this year and great article, clearly shows the amount of TIME needed to play. TIME SINK!
I wish I could have the time it took to read that back...
He didn't do jack....Lucas Arts did all the heavy lifting.
Most EU gold farmers are Russians. Just look at EVE for example. Each area has their "suppliers".
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
Based on my SWG experience, I think I met this person once. This person probably operated on my server based on his description of his Coronet analysis (A billionaire owned the best Coronet malls who made a lot of real $$ from SWG), and I'm forever grateful for his efforts.
Why am I grateful? Because he did us a SERVICE. Not only did I probably spend $10 getting credits from him to get my own operation started (which saved me ENORMOUS amounts of time), but his amazing mall layouts breathed life into that city. A friend of mine eventually convinced him we'd be the best Shipwright vendor in Coronet, and once he leased us a prominent vendor spot, we got easily 100 times the viewing exposure we got at the other 6 vendors we had combined. Sure, he shaved off of my profits, and I plunked down $10 to start my SWG experience, but I made so much money in so little time that I was no longer mining/prospecting/crafting full time anymore and was finally able to spend much more of my time PvPing in Deep space with the best ship components on the server.
He without doubt jumpstarted my SWG experience more than any other player. Even more than my guild.
This person (and people like him) did not destroy anything. He took a valuable area and made it extremely efficient for all. A tangible service was provided, and we paid for it instead of traveling to the backward areas to get what we wanted.
The guy probably made a few credits from 2 accounts and sold some to someone in China.
6-7 years later the memory of the event evolves into an "interesting read".
So then, You broke the ELUA too?
These forums are becoming too difficult to operate. I demand that you simplifiy them, and consider the fact I don't have more than a few minutes to browse them each day. I still want the same feeling I get from a hard day of trolling though.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Why does this lack of time argument keep popping up. Many sandboxes are actually more casual friendly than games that rely on raiding as it's main content.
I agree.
Sand Boxes are less about dedicated blocks of time and more about the overall time invested as a whole. Even if in smaller chunks.
Yes, I suspect a "timesink" is gameplay without a shiny button being handed out at regular enough intervals.A quick note before I get on to my real point below; I loved that the author mentioned the holo grind. Why? Because I had a blast doing it. You can complain about the grind if you want, but I loved killing mobs, and I loved trying the different professions I had to do to get there. By the time I unlocked my Jedi slot (that I never used, by the way), I had played professions I never would have otherwise such as Entertainer, Doctor, Weaponsmith, Armorsmith and others. I simply never thought of anything I did in this game as a "grind" in the negative sense of the word as it is used today. Sure it was a grind, but I had so much fun all the time, that I can't complain about it at all.
--------
While I was never a gold farmer or anything like that, I LOVED running a shop in that game. It was a real revelation for me after having spent the previous 5+ years playing FPS capture the flag and deathmatch games (Doom, Quake, Unreal, Tribes, etc). Even when I was allowed into SWG beta, I had no idea what I was signing up for having never played an MMO before. I had no idea that my entire view of video gaming was going to be changed. I had no idea that I was beginning a virtual life.
If you had told me that I was going to love, no, become obsessed with being a trader in a video game, I would have simply laughed. All I did was shoot people, defend the flag, and I was really damned good at it. In SWG, I loved the whole trader process. I loved surveying and placing extraction equipment on the best resources I could find as much as I did making my rounds every few days to pick up the fruits of my labor so I could build things. I spent hours doing this, and there was also a built in element of exploration and danger from mobs. I loved chatting with friends while crafting in my "shop" which was usually a back room in one of my stores. I left helping people find things, and taking orders for things I didn't have in stock, and selling resources I couldn't use myself. I could go on and on.
Crafting and trade wasn't some simple thing you did with a bit of time. It was a whole gameplay system that you could get lost in for days or weeks. I often did. I would switch back and forth between my Master Weaponsmith and my combat toon, and somtimes I would just parky my combat toon for weeks and concentrate on crafting and social aspects of the game. I made a lot of credits, met and made friends with a lot of great people, and had a blast expanding my business or buying expensive things for my combat alt. I loved decorating my homes and shops, and I loved being in a player built city that changed and evolved as our empire grew.
I like this article, not because of the gold farming, but because it gives you a glimpse of the depth a good, or even mediocre sandbox game can give you. Even non-role players like me were always in a semi-state of role playing in that game, because it was the nature of it. That's what I want back more than anything. I want the sense of community, the emmersion, the feeling of actually living in a virtual world. What we have now in most themepark games can't hold a candle to this in my opinion.
I know I will have a great time playing GW2, but there are games that get me more excited. I'm hoping we get a publisher here in the West so we can try ArchAge. I'm following a couple indy sandboxes too, sich as The Repopulation, and Pathfinder. The fact of the matter for me was that my sandbox experience in SWG ruined me for most MMO games because I know how much more depth, involvement, and community there can be. SWG, with all its many flaws, was capable of delivering on the promise of putting your brain firmly in an alternate reality because it could occupy all your senses. Contrast that with themepark games that I often play while watching a movie on my other screen because they are so one-dimensional and simple.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I paid $10 for 1 mil creds about a week after I started playing. That was probably breaking the EULA. Otherwise, no. I got a very good vendor spot in Coronet mall. That's hardly an exploit of any kind. The building owner (presumably the article writer) took a significant chunk of my profits, but the location/layout was picture perfect.
My point is, anyone can squat on digital real estate, but he put an enormous amount of effort into his land, and everyone benefited from it. After I made tens of millions of credits, I eventually sold my ship items at his mall way below competitive prices, and he didn't replace my vendor despite the obvious drop in profit. If he were a purely evil jerk like everyone may be led to believe, he surely wouldn't have let that go on for so long.
Winner point here.
And while people like Dawwgy or MissIntrepid did exist.. there were large groups that went out of their way to hunt down and get banned the gold farmers/sellers.
MMO History: 2528 days in SW:G
