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So please explain...

TealaTeala SomewherePosts: 7,430Member Uncommon

I have been following the discussions of the guild summit and they talked about changes and additions that will be coming to patch 1.2 in April.  One of them is that with the Legacy System you'll be able to unlock force users skills on non-force user classes.

For instance a Bounty Hunter will be able to unlock Force Choke.  

Why would they do this?   Doesn't this totally go against lore?   Bioware was all ready playing lose with the lore, but isn't this going a little over the top.  Also, if they do this, what will Force Users get?   Will they get the ability to use blasters?

For someone like me that has yet decide if they are going to play the game someday, this is not helping to put me into the mood of doing so.   So what does everyone else think about this?

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Comments

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Teala

    For instance a Bounty Hunter will be able to unlock Force Choke.  

    Why would they do this?   Doesn't this totally go against lore?  Nope.

    well you remember Leia right?  Princess Leia?  Well her class in Star Wars RPG is Diplomat, she sure has a lot of force powers however.

    There are many many instances in star wars where people use abilities that aren't within their "class"

    Luke uses a blaster in episode 4, yet hes a jedi?

    When you roll a character in Star Wars RPG you can determan if they are "force sensitive" and ANY CLASS can be force sensitive.  That means you can slowly build and add some force abilities to that character as it knows some stuff about the force.

    Look at Mara Jade, shes a pirate, yet she becomes a very powerful force user and Luke's Wife.

    This is VERY Cannon.

  • TealaTeala SomewherePosts: 7,430Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    Originally posted by Teala

    For instance a Bounty Hunter will be able to unlock Force Choke.  

    Why would they do this?   Doesn't this totally go against lore?  Nope.

    well you remember Leia right?  Princess Leia?  Well her class in Star Wars RPG is Diplomat, she sure has a lot of force powers however.

    There are many many instances in star wars where people use abilities that aren't within their "class"

    Luke uses a blaster in episode 4, yet hes a jedi?

    When you roll a character in Star Wars RPG you can determan if they are "force sensitive" and ANY CLASS can be force sensitive.  That means you can slowly build and add some force abilities to that character as it knows some stuff about the force.

    Look at Mara Jade, shes a pirate, yet she becomes a very powerful force user and Luke's Wife.

    This is VERY Cannon.

    Ok - cool.  It just seems that it is wweird that a Bounty Hunter one day just bam...has force powers.  

    image
  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Teala

    Originally posted by Laughing-man


    Originally posted by Teala

    For instance a Bounty Hunter will be able to unlock Force Choke.  

    Why would they do this?   Doesn't this totally go against lore?  Nope.

    well you remember Leia right?  Princess Leia?  Well her class in Star Wars RPG is Diplomat, she sure has a lot of force powers however.

    There are many many instances in star wars where people use abilities that aren't within their "class"

    Luke uses a blaster in episode 4, yet hes a jedi?

    When you roll a character in Star Wars RPG you can determan if they are "force sensitive" and ANY CLASS can be force sensitive.  That means you can slowly build and add some force abilities to that character as it knows some stuff about the force.

    Look at Mara Jade, shes a pirate, yet she becomes a very powerful force user and Luke's Wife.

    This is VERY Cannon.

    Ok - cool.  It just seems that it is wweird that a Bounty Hunter one day just bam...has force powers.  

    well it wouldn't be "one day" I mean technically if there was a story to back it up he'd have slowly gained them through training just like a jedi.

    There are A LOT of non jedi / sith force sensitives in the Star wars universe, not everyone who uses the force has a light saber

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Originally posted by Teala

     

    Why would they do this?

    Because the only thing they care about is bringing in more cash and today's average gamer just wants handouts.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member Common

    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    Originally posted by Teala

    For instance a Bounty Hunter will be able to unlock Force Choke.  

    Why would they do this?   Doesn't this totally go against lore?  Nope.

    well you remember Leia right?  Princess Leia?  Well her class in Star Wars RPG is Diplomat, she sure has a lot of force powers however.

    There are many many instances in star wars where people use abilities that aren't within their "class"

    Luke uses a blaster in episode 4, yet hes a jedi?

    When you roll a character in Star Wars RPG you can determan if they are "force sensitive" and ANY CLASS can be force sensitive.  That means you can slowly build and add some force abilities to that character as it knows some stuff about the force.

    Look at Mara Jade, shes a pirate, yet she becomes a very powerful force user and Luke's Wife.

    This is VERY Cannon.

    Exactly. Though the Jedi Order has always tried to track down force-sensitives(ability) to train as Jedi(class), they can't get to them all.

    In EP1, Qui Gon says that if Anakin had been born on the core worlds, he'd have been found sooner and brought in for training (paraphrased, of course). Imgaine him as an adult slave with those powers popping out and him having no idea why and also trying to control them.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • Games888Games888 Chicago, ILPosts: 243Member

    every mmo does this when they are desperate for sub they will go out of their lore, warhammer did the samething with, daoc did the samething.

  • xavurexavure st-felicien, QCPosts: 18Member

    Also you have to consider that the Force flow, threw the whole family.....so if there's one Jedi/Sith in the Legagy, it make sense that the whole family is force sensitive at different degree.

  • XerenixXerenix BPosts: 235Member

    Originally posted by Teala

    Originally posted by Laughing-man


    Originally posted by Teala

    For instance a Bounty Hunter will be able to unlock Force Choke.  

    Why would they do this?   Doesn't this totally go against lore?  Nope.

    well you remember Leia right?  Princess Leia?  Well her class in Star Wars RPG is Diplomat, she sure has a lot of force powers however.

    There are many many instances in star wars where people use abilities that aren't within their "class"

    Luke uses a blaster in episode 4, yet hes a jedi?

    When you roll a character in Star Wars RPG you can determan if they are "force sensitive" and ANY CLASS can be force sensitive.  That means you can slowly build and add some force abilities to that character as it knows some stuff about the force.

    Look at Mara Jade, shes a pirate, yet she becomes a very powerful force user and Luke's Wife.

    This is VERY Cannon.

    Ok - cool.  It just seems that it is wweird that a Bounty Hunter one day just bam...has force powers.  

    Not really if that said BH is a child of a Force-User. The legacy system is like a family tree with the alts being a family member of you.

    Btw if you max out a BH, other classes gets to use the Flamethrower ability or if you max out Smuggler, you get access to "Dirty Kick" with other classes. They take the most fun ability of a class and gives it to the other classes.

  • RobsolfRobsolf Grand Rapids, MIPosts: 4,249Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by WhiteLantern

    Originally posted by Laughing-man


    Originally posted by Teala

    For instance a Bounty Hunter will be able to unlock Force Choke.  

    Why would they do this?   Doesn't this totally go against lore?  Nope.

    well you remember Leia right?  Princess Leia?  Well her class in Star Wars RPG is Diplomat, she sure has a lot of force powers however.

    There are many many instances in star wars where people use abilities that aren't within their "class"

    Luke uses a blaster in episode 4, yet hes a jedi?

    When you roll a character in Star Wars RPG you can determan if they are "force sensitive" and ANY CLASS can be force sensitive.  That means you can slowly build and add some force abilities to that character as it knows some stuff about the force.

    Look at Mara Jade, shes a pirate, yet she becomes a very powerful force user and Luke's Wife.

    This is VERY Cannon.

    Exactly. Though the Jedi Order has always tried to track down force-sensitives(ability) to train as Jedi(class), they can't get to them all.

    In EP1, Qui Gon says that if Anakin had been born on the core worlds, he'd have been found sooner and brought in for training (paraphrased, of course). Imgaine him as an adult slave with those powers popping out and him having no idea why and also trying to control them.

    Yes indeedy.  Even as it was, they already manifested as his being the only human to be capable of racing a Pod. 

    "He can see things before they happen."

    "You must have jedi-like reflexes in order to..."  you get the point...

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,462Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Teala  So what does everyone else think about this?

    I think it's horrible.

    Unless of course they are tyring to insinuate that anyone can be force sensitive.

    But then "if everyone is special then no one is special".

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by Teala  So what does everyone else think about this?

    I think it's horrible.

    Unless of course they are tyring to insinuate that anyone can be force sensitive.

    But then "if everyone is special then no one is special".

    Yeah its so unlikely that someone whos a family member of a Jedi or Sith who is powerful in the force to also be force sensitive... Oh wait that makes actually complete and total sense.

    Its called Legacy because you are RELATED to them, if you are by blood related to them then they obviously ARE force sensitive.

  • iamflymoloiamflymolo Hampton, TNPosts: 152Member

    Doesn't anyone else find it odd that 2 characters of completely different races and completely different backgrounds can be part of the same family?

    "See that Twi'lek that grew up as a slave and was trained to be a sith? Well, his uncle is that Human bounty hunter over there who you just saw force choking someone, so obviously the midichlorian count is high in him."

    Um... yeah.

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by Teala  So what does everyone else think about this?

    I think it's horrible.

    Unless of course they are tyring to insinuate that anyone can be force sensitive.

    But then "if everyone is special then no one is special".

    In today's gaming world, "everyone is a GODLY HERO!" is pure gold...in financial terms of course.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by iamflymolo

    Doesn't anyone else find it odd that 2 characters of completely different races and completely different backgrounds can be part of the same family?

    "See that Twi'lek that grew up as a slave and was trained to be a sith? Well, his uncle is that Human bounty hunter over there who you just saw force choking someone, so obviously the midichlorian count is high in him."

    Um... yeah.

    Ok now this might be harder to explain, but at the same time the Star Wars universe doesn't really have problems with inter species love and children.   So I mean it technically could work but at the same time y ou'd think we'd see more half breed aliens... but we don't... odd

    There are a lot of examples of interspecies children in Star Wars, but its kinda strange the empire, who is all about racial purity and strength, is allowing so many aliens to fight for it.

    It works, only barely.

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    Originally posted by Sovrath


    Originally posted by Teala  So what does everyone else think about this?

    I think it's horrible.

    Unless of course they are tyring to insinuate that anyone can be force sensitive.

    But then "if everyone is special then no one is special".

    In today's gaming world, "everyone is a GODLY HERO!" is pure gold...in financial terms of course.

    Being force sensitive is no more special than having Blue eyes...

    How strong you are with the force is determaned by Midi-Chlorians

    "Midi-chlorians were intelligent microscopic life forms that lived symbiotically inside the cells of all living things. When present in sufficient numbers, they could allow their symbiont to detect the pervasive energy field known as the Force."  - Wookiepedia.

    Its a genetic trait to an extent.

  • Cthulhu23Cthulhu23 Tempe, AZPosts: 994Member

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by Teala  So what does everyone else think about this?

    I think it's horrible.

    Unless of course they are tyring to insinuate that anyone can be force sensitive.

    But then "if everyone is special then no one is special".

    What?  How are they insinuating that anyone can be force sensitive if only members of your family can have an ability usable once every 20 minutes when you are soloing?  If you are talking about being nit-picky enough to have a problem with other players having a bounty hunter that can do the exact same thing, then you have to remember that all the player characters running around in this game on a given server represent a minority compared to the countless npcs who can't do those things.  So, if you are unwilling to suspend disbelief based on it being an MMO, then you just have to realize that player characters are "special" in their ancestory, while the npcs are not.   

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    Originally posted by Zekiah


    Originally posted by Sovrath


    Originally posted by Teala  So what does everyone else think about this?

    I think it's horrible.

    Unless of course they are tyring to insinuate that anyone can be force sensitive.

    But then "if everyone is special then no one is special".

    In today's gaming world, "everyone is a GODLY HERO!" is pure gold...in financial terms of course.

    Being force sensitive is no more special than having Blue eyes...

    How strong you are with the force is determaned by Midi-Chlorians

    "Midi-chlorians were intelligent microscopic life forms that lived symbiotically inside the cells of all living things. When present in sufficient numbers, they could allow their symbiont to detect the pervasive energy field known as the Force."  - Wookiepedia.

    Its a genetic trait to an extent.

    And to what extent? It appears it's going to be completely generic now...which makes nobody special. Or a hero.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    Originally posted by Laughing-man


    Originally posted by Zekiah


    Originally posted by Sovrath


    Originally posted by Teala  So what does everyone else think about this?

    I think it's horrible.

    Unless of course they are tyring to insinuate that anyone can be force sensitive.

    But then "if everyone is special then no one is special".

    In today's gaming world, "everyone is a GODLY HERO!" is pure gold...in financial terms of course.

    Being force sensitive is no more special than having Blue eyes...

    How strong you are with the force is determaned by Midi-Chlorians

    "Midi-chlorians were intelligent microscopic life forms that lived symbiotically inside the cells of all living things. When present in sufficient numbers, they could allow their symbiont to detect the pervasive energy field known as the Force."  - Wookiepedia.

    Its a genetic trait to an extent.

    And to what extent? It appears it's going to be completely generic now...which makes nobody special. Or a hero.

    Again, at this time in the Star Wars univers, it is EXTREMELY common for someone to have a lot of Midi-chlorians.  Its like we went back in time to the land of the red heads.

    If you don't get that reference, red heads are going to be extinct soon, seriously, because their recessive gene's are being bred out of the global gene pool  in less than 100 years there wont' be any natural red heads left.

    So no being force sensitive doesn't make you special, but neither does being a red head, or having blue eyes, or curly hair.

  • nezbelnezbel Daly City, CAPosts: 47Member

    I don't see this as much as being an issue of lore, though I can't say I'm in favor for it from a lore prespective either but its arguable. No, I see the issue in min-maxing. Once the classes start getting access to each others power there is going to be more generic play against other classes. I can only see it as more watering down of the game.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,462Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    Originally posted by Sovrath


    Originally posted by Teala  So what does everyone else think about this?

    I think it's horrible.

    Unless of course they are tyring to insinuate that anyone can be force sensitive.

    But then "if everyone is special then no one is special".

    Yeah its so unlikely that someone whos a family member of a Jedi or Sith who is powerful in the force to also be force sensitive... Oh wait that makes actually complete and total sense.

    Its called Legacy because you are RELATED to them, if you are by blood related to them then they obviously ARE force sensitive.

    Sure that's great and I get it. But because there are several force senstive classes, pretty much everyone can be force senstiive. And because of everyone beign able to be everything it starts to dilute the classes to my taste.

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by nezbel

    I don't see this as much as being an issue of lore, though I can't say I'm in favor for it from a lore prespective either but its arguable. No, I see the issue in min-maxing. Once the classes start getting access to each others power there is going to be more generic play against other classes. I can only see it as more watering down of the game.

    > Adding more skill options

    > making game play generic

    ???

    i'm confused by how you came to the conclusion at 2 from the observation at 1.

     

    We don't know yet what sort of abilities you could get from Legacy, I really doubt it will be ALL the abilities and you can just pick a few, it will likely be a few iconic abilities.  However everything is just speculation at this point.

     

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Sure that's great and I get it. But because there are several force senstive classes, pretty much everyone can be force senstiive. And because of everyone beign able to be everything it starts to dilute the classes to my taste.

    So Bounty hunters can't have red hair?

    My point with this is that just because hes a Bounty hunter doesn't mean he doesn't have access to force abilities...

    Just because you are a Jedi doesn't mean you can't figure out how to work a flame thrower, look at Anakin Skywalker that kid could build a pod racer with the force helping him drive it, yet he wasn't a Jedi yet.

    You are confusing being a Jedi with having the Force.  

     

    Edit:  Another example would be Paladins.

    Paladins have Magic right?

    yet they're Knights?!

    see my point?

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    Originally posted by Zekiah


    Originally posted by Laughing-man


    Originally posted by Zekiah


    Originally posted by Sovrath


    Originally posted by Teala  So what does everyone else think about this?

    I think it's horrible.

    Unless of course they are tyring to insinuate that anyone can be force sensitive.

    But then "if everyone is special then no one is special".

    In today's gaming world, "everyone is a GODLY HERO!" is pure gold...in financial terms of course.

    Being force sensitive is no more special than having Blue eyes...

    How strong you are with the force is determaned by Midi-Chlorians

    "Midi-chlorians were intelligent microscopic life forms that lived symbiotically inside the cells of all living things. When present in sufficient numbers, they could allow their symbiont to detect the pervasive energy field known as the Force."  - Wookiepedia.

    Its a genetic trait to an extent.

    And to what extent? It appears it's going to be completely generic now...which makes nobody special. Or a hero.

    Again, at this time in the Star Wars univers, it is EXTREMELY common for someone to have a lot of Midi-chlorians.  Its like we went back in time to the land of the red heads.

    If you don't get that reference, red heads are going to be extinct soon, seriously, because their recessive gene's are being bred out of the global gene pool  in less than 100 years there wont' be any natural red heads left.

    So no being force sensitive doesn't make you special, but neither does being a red head, or having blue eyes, or curly hair.

    The point is, the gaming industry on the whole caved in to the theory that "everyone should be gods and heroes" and that's exactly what you're going to get with SWTOR. Everyone is going to have these powers so if you think that an entire universe of force-choking people running around is "Star Warsy" then by all means, have at it. Personally, I find the idea revolting, just as choosing a Jedi from start in NGE was.

    Perhaps one day MMOs will just let you start at max level, max powers, max gear and max money. Why not? They're almost there as it is, getting to max level in a week is common practice in this down-trodden industry.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon

    So everyone has the force now? I wonder what George thinks about this...

    image


    image

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    The point is, the gaming industry on the whole caved in to the theory that "everyone should be gods and heroes" and that's exactly what you're going to get with SWTOR. Everyone is going to have these powers so if you think that an entire universe of force-choking people running around is "Star Warsy" then by all means, have at it. Personally, I find the idea revolting, just as choosing a Jedi from start in NGE was.

    Perhaps one day MMOs will just let you start at max level, max powers, max gear and max money. Why not? They're almost there as it is, getting to max level in a week is common practice in this down-trodden industry.

    Is that the point?  Or is that YOUR point?

    When they started making The Old Republic they stated it was a time when there was A LOT of force users running around.

    I bet you assumed they ment Jedi and Sith didn't ya?

    Nope they ment FORCE USERS.

    Which it seems like a lot of people keep confusing the two.

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