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EVE Online: CCP Planning Overhaul of Ship Training

AmanaAmana New York, NYPosts: 2,542Moderator Uncommon

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CCP is announcing some big changes coming soon to EVE Online's ship training in the name of balancing the game moving forward.

Writing on the devblog, CCP Ytterbium outlines the changes. The first overhaul that CCP is considering has to do with cleaning up both ship progression and skill requirements.

Current ship progression looks like the chart above, and current design along with racial skill requirements have caused several issues to manifest. The proposal to fix things includes streamlining ship training by rearranging skill requirements for certain ships, and overall creating a system that is more intuitive and organized.



"To sum up, this means that tech 1 sub-capital vessels would take a bit longer to train for (from 9 to 17 days for Battleships for instance), capitals would be less time consuming (30 days faster) and tech 2 ships like Interdictors and Command Ships would require 14-20 less days to train for."



The full devblog fleshes out the proposals for improvement, as well as illustrating them for easier understanding. CCP seems to be going back to EVE's roots in several ways recently, far from last year's controversies.

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Comments

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member

    9 to 17days MORE for battleships? Horsecrap!

     

    I don't see how this changeup has any sort of benefit for new players, or old ones for that matter.

     

    They're messing with something that has no business being messed with. Now, if they want to DECREASE train times to get new players into ships a little easier then fantastic. Otherwise go jump off a train CCP >:|!

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member

    One of the scariest and most interesting devblogs in a while.  I just hope there won't be too much training required to be able to fly ships I can fly now.

    El Psy Congroo

  • WorstluckWorstluck the valley, CAPosts: 1,269Member

    Yeah not sure who is going to benifit from this.  I didn't read the whole devblog though, I don't have the time or the attention span after 9 hours of work to read all those charts.

     

    I spent a long time training for capitals, jump frieghters, interdictors on my characters, will they be reimbursing somehow like they did with learning points :D

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  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member

    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    9 to 17days MORE for battleships? Horsecrap!

     

    I don't see how this changeup has any sort of benefit for new players, or old ones for that matter.

     

    They're messing with something that has no business being messed with. Now, if they want to DECREASE train times to get new players into ships a little easier then fantastic. Otherwise go jump off a train CCP >:|!




     

    Well, they did mention that several ships would take less time to train for.  And it isn't all about adjusting the training times, it's about the ships themselves too, making useless ships useful, and possibly adding new ships entirely.

    El Psy Congroo

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member

    Originally posted by kadepsyson



    Originally posted by Fadedbomb



    9 to 17days MORE for battleships? Horsecrap!





     





    I don't see how this changeup has any sort of benefit for new players, or old ones for that matter.





     





    They're messing with something that has no business being messed with. Now, if they want to DECREASE train times to get new players into ships a little easier then fantastic. Otherwise go jump off a train CCP >:|!










     

    Well, they did mention that several ships would take less time to train for.  And it isn't all about adjusting the training times, it's about the ships themselves too, making useless ships useful, and possibly adding new ships entirely.

    Adjusting the "train times" around for different ships won't make them any more or less useful. It will just piss new players off, and current ones, because they have to train more for the nicer ones and less for ones no one cares about.

     

    Most alliances don't use Battleships anymore for large scale fleet actions. They use Cruisers (Logistics) and BattleCruisers primarily. Battleships are quite frankly too expensive nowadays for fleet ops. They're useless for anything PvP, and are primarily ONLY used for PVE solo stuff.

    Heck, incursions are primarily strategic cruisers & guardians nowadays. Anyone who brings a Battleship or Battlecruiser is generally podded unless you're in carebear space running the really really bad incursions with PUG gangs.

     

    Seriously, this can only prove to harm new players & piss old ones off that haven't trained ALL of their skills to 5 yet. Thankfully, all of my ship skills are at 5 that I ever care to own (ie: Blackops Ships can go off themselves).

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member

    Originally posted by FadedbombAdjusting the "train times" around for different ships won't make them any more or less useful.



    Right, it's the balancing mentioned in the actual devblog that'll makae the ships more useful, not the training time adjustments.

     

    El Psy Congroo

  • Galahad256Galahad256 AdelaidePosts: 3Member

    The only way this can work is if they reimburse for Batltlecruiser and have all 4 racial battlecruiser V equal normal Battlecruiser V

    So

    Battlecruiser V (Total SP) = Amarr Battlecruiser V + Gallente Battlecruiser V + Caldari Battlecruiser V + Minmitar Battlecruiser V

    So when I get reimbursed my skill points I can instantly go get the skill books for all the ships I flew before and fly them again...

    Anything less then that and this whole  thing is just taking away training time for people who have already trained the skill and fly those ships.

  • Mondo80Mondo80 Newington, CTPosts: 189Member Uncommon
    This is why I like Star Trek Online, anyone can fly any ship.

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  • SlaverHoundSlaverHound Toronto, ONPosts: 109Member







    Originally posted by Galahad256

    The only way this can work is if they reimburse for Batltlecruiser and have all 4 racial battlecruiser V equal normal Battlecruiser V

    So

    Battlecruiser V (Total SP) = Amarr Battlecruiser V + Gallente Battlecruiser V + Caldari Battlecruiser V + Minmitar Battlecruiser V

    So when I get reimbursed my skill points I can instantly go get the skill books for all the ships I flew before and fly them again...

    Anything less then that and this whole  thing is just taking away training time for people who have already trained the skill and fly those ships.


     

    Their policy with it seems to be that if you were able to fly it before you can fly it after which means that if you don't have destroyers or BC skills you'll be given them to be able to fly the BSs you currently can.  One of my toons has gallente and caldari BS so I'll get free destroyer and BC skills for those factions.

    Currently you need faction frigate and faction cruiser skills to fly a specific BC so if you only have caldari skills then you'll only get a caldari BC not the other 3 also.

    Capital ship pilots will probably get a refund on skill points for battleship 5 and if they want it again they'll need to spend it there.

     

    "Lectroids? Planet 10? Nuclear extortion? A girl named "John"?

  • TheCorrectedTheCorrected Golden, COPosts: 6Member

    How about you fix this contradiction first:

    I've seen Carriers and Dreadnoughts played up in the marketing. Yet, it will take longer than the game's lifespan to get to that point if you start today.

    Please make the game less grindy.

  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member

    Originally posted by TheCorrected

    How about you fix this contradiction first:

    I've seen Carriers and Dreadnoughts played up in the marketing. Yet, it will take longer than the game's lifespan to get to that point if you start today.

    Please make the game less grindy.




     

    The game has less than a year of lifespan?

    What.

    El Psy Congroo

  • sazabisazabi VilniusPosts: 389Member

    most of times people forget that they dont actually need the big ships.

    the 'oh my god look at my huge ship yo' attitude is really disturbing. this isnt typical fantasy mmo where people brag about their penis *cough* i mean armor and mount size or whatever.

    no, the biggest ship wont autowin you all pvp battles.

    no, there are no best ships.

    you have to be able to afford losing the ship in the first place.

    by the time those people realise what those big ships are all about... i guess they will play long time enough to actually fly them. hah

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,863Member Uncommon

    CSM strikes development changes again...

  • zimboy69zimboy69 chicargo, FLPosts: 374Member Uncommon

    so what should you train if you dont have battlecrusier destroyer and  battleship at level  5

    i have all  at level 4   and was training for a sleipnir ,  should i still continue to train battle crusier to level 5 ?

     

    also any idea when these changes are likly to come in ? cause my battle crusier will take 24 days  is that enough time to train for it before the changes

     

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  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,863Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by zimboy69
    so what should you train if you dont have battlecrusier destroyer and  battleship at level  5
    i have all  at level 4   and was training for a sleipnir ,  should i still continue to train battle crusier to level 5 ?
     
    also any idea when these changes are likly to come in ? cause my battle crusier will take 24 days  is that enough time to train for it before the changes
     

    New ship training lines were not presented yet...nor there is a word about skill reimbursement.

    Major difference will be that destroyer and battlecruiser skill will turned into be racial skills(ok) and incorporated into ship training line(dumb).

    I would say if you are not cross training your battlecruisers, you should have not be worried.

    It is merely a draft of another not well thought out idea so lots is still missing...

  • hfztthfztt GlostrupPosts: 839Member Uncommon

    Oh, noes! CCP is fixing the mess that is Destroyer & Battlecruiser skills?

    How dare they:

    'They should stay forever broken, be course thats how its allways been!

    Now get back to fixing things CCP!'

    *sigh*

    I hate the EvE forum warriors...

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,863Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by hfztt
    Oh, noes! CCP is fixing the mess that is Destroyer & Battlecruiser skills?

    Can you elaborate how are they a mess?

    Destroyers and Battlecruisers are in no way a line of progression, they are specialization within T1 tier ship size thus they work same way as T2 specialization skills.

    Current T1 ship tree is sensible and needs no change.

  • EluwienEluwien EspooPosts: 166Member

    Originally posted by TheCorrected

    How about you fix this contradiction first:

    I've seen Carriers and Dreadnoughts played up in the marketing. Yet, it will take longer than the game's lifespan to get to that point if you start today.

    Please make the game less grindy.

    The blog directly says, that getting into a carrier/dread is about 1 month faster after this update.

    Please make your face less grindy, its really getting tiresome to grind rough facts to it.

    9 months to fly one if you really want to.

    -----

     

    Interesting new update for EVE if you ask me. Way too many hulls are generally sub par compared to their counter parts, or are completely obsolete. 

    CCP is also known for not punishing players for their skill tree adjustments. For anyone, who has not trained support/weaponry skills for all 4 races, this will be free SP for everything else as they only have to relearn, or will be granted those Desto and BC skills they actually fly, and rest in SP.

     

     

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  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonPosts: 1,420Member

    I think it's good that CCP are letting the players know in advance AND discussing it on the forums AND making adjustments accordingly.

     

    It's a slight set-back for me, but I can plan ahead, so I'm not too bothered.

  • hfztthfztt GlostrupPosts: 839Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Gdemami

     




    Originally posted by hfztt

    Oh, noes! CCP is fixing the mess that is Destroyer & Battlecruiser skills?




     

    Can you elaborate how are they a mess?

    Destroyers and Battlecruisers are in no way a line of progression, they are specialization within T1 tier ship size thus they work same way as T2 specialization skills.

    Current T1 ship tree is sensible and needs no change.


     

    I guess you could look at it like that. The problem is of course that they where made that way be course CCP didnt have the balls to change the system when the originally introduced them.

    But once you are done training frigates you can choose between  destroyers and crusiers for the next step. Not much reason to train destroyer unless you plan to go for T2 versions as it is a dead end. This makes the whole ship line rather redundat (I mean, come on, who trains for them to fly T1 when you can go straight for cruiser?).

    If you are fully skilled the tree makes as much sense the old way as the new way, i'll grant you that, but the journey there is quite different, and while the new system removes choice (which is no real choice as noted above) it actually gives T1 destroyers a use.

    The only reason that battlecruisers are used today is that Drakes and Hurricanes are relatively overpowered, thus giving an incentive to train them, else noone woul use T1 battlecuisers either, due to the current system.

  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonPosts: 1,420Member

    Originally posted by hfztt



    Originally posted by Gdemami

     








    Originally posted by hfztt



    Oh, noes! CCP is fixing the mess that is Destroyer & Battlecruiser skills?






     

    Can you elaborate how are they a mess?

    Destroyers and Battlecruisers are in no way a line of progression, they are specialization within T1 tier ship size thus they work same way as T2 specialization skills.

    Current T1 ship tree is sensible and needs no change.






     

    I guess you could look at it like that. The problem is of course that they where made that way be course CCP didnt have the balls to change the system when the originally introduced them.

    But once you are done training frigates you can choose between  destroyers and crusiers for the next step. Not much reason to train destroyer unless you plan to go for T2 versions as it is a dead end. This makes the whole ship line rather redundat (I mean, come on, who trains for them to fly T1 when you can go straight for cruiser?).

    If you are fully skilled the tree makes as much sense the old way as the new way, i'll grant you that, but the journey there is quite different, and while the new system removes choice (which is no real choice as noted above) it actually gives T1 destroyers a use.

    The only reason that battlecruisers are used today is that Drakes and Hurricanes are relatively overpowered, thus giving an incentive to train them, else noone woul use T1 battlecuisers either, due to the current system.




     

    You are correct at the moment. However, reading the dev blog it looks as if many more changes will be made so it all makes sense.

     

    I suspect that CCP will be introducing more distroyers and more battlecruisers.

     

    These new ship additions might coincide with the introduction of DUST because drop-ships will be required.

     

    So basically, it's all change.

  • xenomxenom grazPosts: 101Member Uncommon

    well with the hint that they want to go away from the dictated balance of ships by their tier i find it a good move when ships will be balanced according to a role. rebalancing training chains etc. is just the start.

     

    the blog also states that ships below BS will get slots and what not to make them good in whatever role they are meant to be good in which could lead to a very good varity in ship types for situations where there is only very few as of now.

    time will tell i guess :)

     

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,863Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by hfztt

    The problem is of course that they where made that way be course CCP didnt have the balls to change the system when the originally introduced them.

    You say there is a problem, yet you still do not say which one.

    Ship tree won't make ships more viable or useful, that is a balance and design issue.

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon

    "Seriously, this can only prove to harm new players & piss old ones off that haven't trained ALL of their skills to 5 yet. Thankfully, all of my ship skills are at 5 that I ever care to own (ie: Blackops Ships can go off themselves)."

    Well you will have to retrain all Battlecruisers skills, my guess is that they will refund enough to train one racial BC to 5, any others you will have to buy and start from scratch.  About 20 days for each extra race.  Over a month training for me as I fly 3 racial battlecruisers at times.  

    I just hope they don't put destroyers in the progression to train line, that will add additional days.

  • atticusbcatticusbc Posts: 1,068Member Uncommon

    i wouldn't go flipping your collective lids yet, since in every way they worded it these changes are just being considered at the moment. so keep you cool, but keep up the public outcry.

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