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A confession; I've been playing TOR.

24

Comments

  • DarthconnorDarthconnor Saint James, MOPosts: 61Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Obraik

    Many will probably remember me saying I wasn't going to play TOR, however I have family members and friends internationally who like to aid my crazy addictions and picked it up for me late last year.  I'm sure there are many here that are hoping to read this and see that I've "seen the light" and come to realise that SWG was crap, etc etc.  If you're one of those people then you're probably not going to like this post.

    I always knew TOR was never going to be anything like SWG but I figured that this is what MMO's are these days and being a fan of the MMO genre I might as well at least play one that is somewhat sci-fi.  So for the last three months I've trying to become attached to TOR like I was with SWG.

    That attempt has failed.  As much as I've tried, TOR is too linear and simplistic for me.  I don't feel like I'm playing an MMO, I feel like I'm playing a single player game for the most part - there's little in the way of a community and there's nothing there to really entice a community atmosphere.

    My main complaints:



    • The lack of a community feel.  For the most part, I feel like I'm playing a single player game.  For the grind from 1-50 I pretty much feel like I'm all on my own and there's little reason to involve anyone else.  I know this is something SWG tried to do as well with the legacy quests but there were alternatives.  Being in a guild seems to be for title only as you don't seem to really need to rely on your guild for much. 


    • Meaningless PvP, which kind of links with the above point.  I don't see much in the way of PvP outside of the instanced areas.  I'm on a PvP server but the only places I encounter PvP is when I queue for a Warzone or if I were to go to Ilum.  I miss the PvP based on pride in SWG which actually gave it a war like feel - I felt like I had an enemy to fight.  There's no "X guild is SF in Y city and they're holding the SP...let's gather up and kill them!"  I really want something like that again.  Fighting purely for trinkets gets boring.


    • The UI. Holy crap, the UI.  I can't move any of the UI windows to where I want them, I can't resize them and I can't have more than two open at once.  On top of that, the behaviour of one UI window changes if you happen to have another specific UI window open.  It's also too in your face and chunky.


    • Movement controls.  This is potentially just because I'm overly familliar with the way SWG did things, but I really do miss the ability to lock the cursor and simply use the mouse to control the direction my character moves.  Instead, to do this with the mouse I have to hold down two mouse buttons, or through using the keyboard I have to use one key to move and another to control direction.  There's also no means of remapping which two mouse buttons control movement.


    • A lacking of non-combat activities.  The crafting in TOR is simply, boring.  There's nothing to it and there's really no reason for me to do it.  If people needed/wanted my crafted goods then that would make the boredom worth it but nope, everything comes from loot. 


    There's all the little things that SWG just had that you get used to and miss, like housing, the travel system and towards the end, the GCW systems.  I suppose three months on I'll admit, I'm missing SWG.  Not obessively so, but I just look at the MMO's out there today and can't really find anything that would keep me interested.  Everything is trying to be like WoW.  Maybe SWG was just "the perfect storm" and in general, MMO's just aren't my thing.


     


    If anyone needs me, I'll be in Team Fortress 2...

    Honestly i think the thing that hurt me the most on Swtor was the fact that they had all those really nicely done planets that after i grinded my 5 levels on or whatever id never have a reason to see it again. Like wow was with Negrand (loved that zone and often went back just to fly around it and helped out ppl grinding in it for a reason to stay there) once you progress through the zone theres no reason to go back other then to maybe help someone else. Swg I loved Talus and spent most my time there. Had houses set up there for years and would regularly do missions there when there was little else to do. With Swtor whats the point of putting so much time into the design of a planet your only gonna see for a few levels if you dont add reasons or atleast things to do there after you progress. I can deal with planets not having day/night cycles and no bugs flying around or no sound of wind whipping by but i think it really ruined it when i thought about it and came to the conclusion that finding my favorite planet was pointless as I was only set to be there for a certain amount of levels.

    Problem with theme park games for me i guess is unlike swg theres not really a great reason to care about what zone/planet/region is your favorite cause its not like your gonna have a choice to live there or even have a reason to stick around or hang out there as once your leveled your time in said place is over and you are forced to move on to progress. Something I really miss about SWG is that while there where planets that I had to visit for certain items there was always the one I liked most to go back to and I could craft, gather resources(not always the best) and just hang out there and not be doing so without anything useful being done. Hate the fact that there isnt really a game out that gives this same sort of feeling as SWG did. Sad that all the games Ive seen or heard about follow the same boring guidelines of theme park gaming where your pretty much stuck traveling through instead of finding the place you want to spend most your time at.

  • ObraikObraik ChristchurchPosts: 7,261Member

    Originally posted by ropenice

    Originally posted by Obraik


    Originally posted by eddieg50

      As soon as the op started talking about the grind I knew he just did not understand why bioware was making a game such as this.  This is a game to be savored, this is not a rush to the end game. With story, cut scenes and great voice overs bioware wants the journey to be important.  All those who do not want to go on the journey are going to be unhappy and for the rest of us - Let the Journey begin

    Which implies it's not a game to stick with.  Personally, I think an MMO should stack the content at the end game rather than trickling it out through the low to midlevels - there's no reason the journey has to be associated with the tedium of getting to max level.  The main purpose of leveling in an MMO should be to learn how the game works and the various features that can be found in the game rather than drip feeding content.  I'm not a big fan of voice acting and generally find it to be more cheese than entertainment.

    So it should be boring to max level and then gear grind/pvp over and over. They have games like that already. Lots of them. I don't play TOR, but respect the fact they tried to make levelling more entertaining. If they hadn't made so many other mistakes with the development, they would be doing much better.

    And all those saying how TOR should've been made like SWG, aren't remembering it the same as I did. Started off (at launch) making a Rhodian Smuggler, thinking how cool, until i learned there was no smuggling. ?. So i ran around shooting things for no reason, resource gathering/farming, making food, etc. Got bored real quick and moved on. I assume it got better later. Seems a mmorpg with a story based IP needs some type of story/conflict to provide some need for your character to be there. Maybe a thempark/sandox hybrid type, but these 2 games have tried both seperate and both seems lacking.

    No, I'm actually suggesting to make leveling more interesting.  Make levels purposeful by granting them after demostrating that you learnt an aspect of the game or completing something truly epic.  To put it in SWG terms as an example of something that I think an MMO should do:  If you used a survey tool to find a resource to sample, you gained a level for proving you learnt how a system worked.  Rather than having to grind each and every alt you want to make, create some RP about being able to clone the knowledge of your character that takes X amount of days/hours to complete and after which you have the ability to make a character that's the same level of your main character.  That way you can continue to play with your main character while your wait for your alt to become available.  Personally I think game developers should be focusing more on content that's actually fun rather than content that's purely made for the purpose of gaining XP that the majority of the playerbase is rushing through anyway.

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  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by tixylix

    (mod edit)

    SWG was not dead until Dec 15th 2011. Althought started to decline after the shutdown announcement on 24th June 2011

    An article one day before the shutdown announcement

    When they announced SWGs shutdown it had 4 FULL servers, but SWTOR is rarely getting one these days, but should get 60 in comparison.

    SWTOR is dying faster than SWG was

  • SandboxSandbox SwedenPosts: 295Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by superniceguy

    Originally posted by tixylix

    (mod edit)

    SWG was not dead until Dec 15th 2011. Althought started to decline after the shutdown announcement on 24th June 2011

    An article one day before the shutdown announcement

    When they announced SWGs shutdown it had 4 FULL servers, but SWTOR is rarely getting one these days, but should get 60 in comparison.

    SWTOR is dying faster than SWG was

    SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

    Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

    I agree with your last line.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,045Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Sandbox

    SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

    Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

    I agree with your last line.

    Well, yeah it kinda was but blaming what TOR is on the players who played SWG after that seems a bit rash. NGEd SWG and TOR are still very different games.

    TOR really is a mix between the fact that Bioware wanted to turn one of their games into a MMO, that they didn´t have the Forgotten realms license and that EA wanted a game similar to Wow.

    I think TOR would have launched more or less the same even if there never would have been a SWG.

    Besides, TOR is rather popular so another reason it is like it is are the fact that many gamers actually want it.

    Many others don´t but you make a game for the people who want that type of game, not for the ones that want something else.

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon

    NGE Dec 15th 2011 > Pre-NGE > NGE Nov 2005

    All the added content certainly makes up for the lack of the 32 profession system

    NGE with 32 professions and Jedi being worked for would be the ultimate SWG, but does not and did not exist.

     

  • SuprGamerXSuprGamerX Montreal, QCPosts: 531Member

     Heh , some confessions are better left untold. :P

  • SandboxSandbox SwedenPosts: 295Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by superniceguy

    NGE Dec 15th 2011 > Pre-NGE > NGE Nov 2005

    All the added content certainly makes up for the lack of the 32 profession system

    NGE with 32 professions and Jedi being worked for would be the ultimate SWG, but does not and did not exist.

     

    I does not matter how much content and other good stuff you put into the NGE, the game is unplayble as a MMO (emphasis on Massive) as long as the movement/combat system introduced with the NGE is present. Even the special designed combat zones like restuss failed any bigger fights.

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Besides, TOR is rather popular so another reason it is like it is are the fact that many gamers actually want it.

     

    It is only popular because of Bioware, KOTOR, and had been hyped up for 3 years. Everybody including people living under a rock heard of it, that by the time it got released virtually everyone was ready for it and to buy and play it. Loads of money was chucked at it, and there looked no way that it would be a fail, gaining MMO of the week / month / year, even before it was released.

    The fact that the servers are dropping fast, now proves that gamers do not want it, after playing it, especially once hit 50.

    SWG was released fast, I came to it a month late as it got released faster than I thought.

  • synnsynn killeen, TXPosts: 546Member

    Originally posted by Obraik

    Originally posted by eddieg50

      As soon as the op started talking about the grind I knew he just did not understand why bioware was making a game such as this.  This is a game to be savored, this is not a rush to the end game. With story, cut scenes and great voice overs bioware wants the journey to be important.  All those who do not want to go on the journey are going to be unhappy and for the rest of us - Let the Journey begin

    Which implies it's not a game to stick with.  Personally, I think an MMO should stack the content at the end game rather than trickling it out through the low to midlevels - there's no reason the journey has to be associated with the tedium of getting to max level.  The main purpose of leveling in an MMO should be to learn how the game works and the various features that can be found in the game rather than drip feeding content.  I'm not a big fan of voice acting and generally find it to be more cheese than entertainment.

    I'm not sure i agree with you about MMOs being about endgame.  I think the journey there is equally important and to be honest i think thats what is hurting MMOs. Nowadays the only thing players are concerned about are how fast they can hit level cap and about world/shard/server firsts. Whats the point of being the first one to 50 or first to complete your raid gear set...well besides the whole e-peen thing??? Also, can anyone tell me what themepark MMOs since WoW has released with enough end game content that players were satisfied?

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Sandbox

    Originally posted by superniceguy

    NGE Dec 15th 2011 > Pre-NGE > NGE Nov 2005

    All the added content certainly makes up for the lack of the 32 profession system

    NGE with 32 professions and Jedi being worked for would be the ultimate SWG, but does not and did not exist.

     

    I does not matter how much content and other good stuff you put into the NGE, the game is unplayble as a MMO (emphasis on Massive) as long as the movement/combat system introduced with the NGE is present. Even the special designed combat zones like restuss failed any bigger fights.

    It was playable enough for me

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by synn

    Also, can anyone tell me what themepark MMOs since WoW has released with enough end game content that players were satisfied?

    Dunno, still levelling chars up. The point with SWTOR is that the most casual of casual players hit 50 fast.

    LOTRO has so much side stuff to distract you wihilst levlling up, it is a lot slower and takes longer to get to end level

  • NasjaNasja ZaandamPosts: 47Member

    Originally posted by tixylix

    (mod edit)

    There may be a lot of subscribers but I am cruious about that potential with this game. What kind of potential is there? Some say you should compare swtor the way it is now to swg the way it was at launch. But when we do that, then I see swg with a lot of open worlds with lots of possibilities and very little restriction.

    Compare that to swtor which has planets which are filled with npc's / terrain and sometimes buildings which means a lot of restriction. So what can they do? Other then add more content such as more planets and instances and quests? Also, because they decided to go with seperated server types, you can consider that even if there were additions to the current system they may not work because of that. The questhubs need to be protected by lvl 50 champion npcs or players wouldn't be able to pick up quests on a pvp server and these questhubs take some space..

    I have no doubt that this is what the current mmo playerbase.. login to pvp and do instances... like but I don't see the potential for more content.


  • ObraikObraik ChristchurchPosts: 7,261Member

    Originally posted by Sandbox

    Originally posted by superniceguy


    Originally posted by tixylix

    (mod edit)

    SWG was not dead until Dec 15th 2011. Althought started to decline after the shutdown announcement on 24th June 2011

    An article one day before the shutdown announcement

    When they announced SWGs shutdown it had 4 FULL servers, but SWTOR is rarely getting one these days, but should get 60 in comparison.

    SWTOR is dying faster than SWG was

    SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

    Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

    I agree with your last line.

    Not sure how that makes sense, considering that despite the profession system being simplified, SWG was still a much more complex game when it was shutdown in December than what TOR is.  Infact, I can't think of any MMO released since 2003/2004 that has more complexities to it than SWG, even post NGE.  I await the day when a game company decides to try and best that...

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  • SandboxSandbox SwedenPosts: 295Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Obraik

    Originally posted by Sandbox


    Originally posted by superniceguy


    Originally posted by tixylix

    (mod edit)

    SWG was not dead until Dec 15th 2011. Althought started to decline after the shutdown announcement on 24th June 2011

    An article one day before the shutdown announcement

    When they announced SWGs shutdown it had 4 FULL servers, but SWTOR is rarely getting one these days, but should get 60 in comparison.

    SWTOR is dying faster than SWG was

    SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

    Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

    I agree with your last line.

    Not sure how that makes sense, considering that despite the profession system being simplified, SWG was still a much more complex game when it was shutdown in December than what TOR is.  Infact, I can't think of any MMO released since 2003/2004 that has more complexities to it than SWG, even post NGE.  I await the day when a game company decides to try and best that...

    I put that a little harsh, sorry.

    My point was; as long as people are satisfied with less, that's what we will get.



    NGE was a clear move from Star Wars world simulation to Star Wars theme park, with loot based gear, killing much of economy etc... Had SOE not killed all the old professions or screwed the network code with Benny Hill movement at least I had choosed SWG before SWTOR.

  • hipiaphipiap Chicago, ILPosts: 439Member

    Originally posted by superniceguy

    NGE Dec 15th 2011 > Pre-NGE > NGE Nov 2005

    All the added content certainly makes up for the lack of the 32 profession system

    NGE with 32 professions and Jedi being worked for would be the ultimate SWG, but does not and did not exist.

     

    This I will disagree with.

     

    Bio Engineer

    Creature Handler

    Did not equal that crap Pet system they put back in SW:G

    Spy did not come Close to Ranger

    Squad Leader and Carbineer/Pistols/Rifles did not equal Officer.

    Medic was a Shadow of its former self and did not meld Doctor/Medic/CM well at all

    BH and Jedi were Jokes after the NGE

    Only thing I can say about Commando is that they finally got all the HW working right.  The AoE spam got old with the "Fire with Nothing Targetted" crap.

    Smugglers (MUS title and 'content' not withstanding) never got to Smuggle. And I missed making Spice.  

     

    And throwing all the Melee Profs (Pike/Fencer/Unarmed/Swordsman/Brawler) into expertise crap for Medic/Officer/Spy/Smuggler...And Rifles and Pistols and Carbines into expertise for Officer/Spy/Smuggler/BH/Medic did a Dis-service to what those Professions were actually capable of pre-NGE.

     

     

    I wanted Pre-NGE Professions + November 30th 2011 Content.

    MMO History: 2528 days in SW:G
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  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Originally posted by hipiap

    Originally posted by superniceguy

    NGE Dec 15th 2011 > Pre-NGE > NGE Nov 2005

    All the added content certainly makes up for the lack of the 32 profession system

    NGE with 32 professions and Jedi being worked for would be the ultimate SWG, but does not and did not exist.

     

    Bio Engineer

    Creature Handler

     

    Best systems EVAR.

    /sadface

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • hipiaphipiap Chicago, ILPosts: 439Member

    Originally posted by Sandbox




    SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

    Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

    Funny....SOE still billed me for SW:G until September 2011....and I was able to Play SW:G until December 15th....and I was able to Post on the SW:G forums at the SOE site until 12/29/2011.

    The CURB ended November 15th, 2005

    A LOT of People quit the game because of the NGE and the way it was handled.

    But the game continued until just under 90 days ago Mate.

    No matter how you wish otherwise.

     

    And Since I was there from 2004 until 2011........I can speak from experience.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    MMO History: 2528 days in SW:G
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  • SandboxSandbox SwedenPosts: 295Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by hipiap

    Originally posted by Sandbox




    SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

    Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

    Funny....SOE still billed me for SW:G until September 2011....and I was able to Play SW:G until December 15th....and I was able to Post on the SW:G forums at the SOE site until 12/29/2011.

    The CURB ended November 15th, 2005

    A LOT of People quit the game because of the NGE and the way it was handled.

    But the game continued until just under 90 days ago Mate.

    No matter how you wish otherwise.

     

    And Since I was there from 2004 until 2011........I can speak from experience.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I know when SOE terminated the service for SWG, but for me it died Nov 15, 2005.

    As I said earlier a few posts back; my statement was a little harsh, sorry for that.

  • hipiaphipiap Chicago, ILPosts: 439Member

    Originally posted by Sandbox

    Originally posted by hipiap

    Originally posted by Sandbox




    SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

    Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

    Funny....SOE still billed me for SW:G until September 2011....and I was able to Play SW:G until December 15th....and I was able to Post on the SW:G forums at the SOE site until 12/29/2011.

    The CURB ended November 15th, 2005

    A LOT of People quit the game because of the NGE and the way it was handled.

    But the game continued until just under 90 days ago Mate.

    No matter how you wish otherwise.

     

    And Since I was there from 2004 until 2011........I can speak from experience.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I know when SOE terminated the service for SWG, but for me it died Nov 15, 2005.

    As I said earlier a few posts back; my statement was a little harsh, sorry for that.

    I did see your appology for corking off the way you did...Thus I made sure to be Snarky and not Rude.

     

    ;)

    MMO History: 2528 days in SW:G
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  • ObraikObraik ChristchurchPosts: 7,261Member

    Originally posted by Sandbox

    Originally posted by Obraik


    Originally posted by Sandbox


    Originally posted by superniceguy


    Originally posted by tixylix

    (mod edit)

    SWG was not dead until Dec 15th 2011. Althought started to decline after the shutdown announcement on 24th June 2011

    An article one day before the shutdown announcement

    When they announced SWGs shutdown it had 4 FULL servers, but SWTOR is rarely getting one these days, but should get 60 in comparison.

    SWTOR is dying faster than SWG was

    SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

    Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

    I agree with your last line.

    Not sure how that makes sense, considering that despite the profession system being simplified, SWG was still a much more complex game when it was shutdown in December than what TOR is.  Infact, I can't think of any MMO released since 2003/2004 that has more complexities to it than SWG, even post NGE.  I await the day when a game company decides to try and best that...

    I put that a little harsh, sorry.

    My point was; as long as people are satisfied with less, that's what we will get.



    NGE was a clear move from Star Wars world simulation to Star Wars theme park, with loot based gear, killing much of economy etc... Had SOE not killed all the old professions or screwed the network code with Benny Hill movement at least I had choosed SWG before SWTOR.

    I'll agree that they simplified the professions but I wouldn't say they took away the Star Wars world simulation.  That part of the game wasn't changed with the NGE, nor was it loot based for gear.  Equipable loot items were far, far inferior to crafted items and buff loot items didn't conflict with crafted buff items.  You would not have been able to play without crafted items.

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  • wrekognizewrekognize salt lake city, UTPosts: 384Member

    Originally posted by superniceguy

    Originally posted by tixylix

    (mod edit)

    SWG was not dead until Dec 15th 2011. Althought started to decline after the shutdown announcement on 24th June 2011

    An article one day before the shutdown announcement

    When they announced SWGs shutdown it had 4 FULL servers, but SWTOR is rarely getting one these days, but should get 60 in comparison.

    SWTOR is dying faster than SWG was

    Exactly. I was having so much fun playing SWG too. I was online the moment it was announced the game will be getting shut down. Struggled logging in for a month after because I hated playing a game I knew would end. I stopped playing in May.  I told myself, I could give TOR a try and the more I read about it, the more disapointed I was getting.  I read message boards for 3 months until I found a game called Linkrealms.  It saved me from sifting through trash (cutscenes).

  • TroneasTroneas Buenos AiresPosts: 851Member

    Originally posted by Obraik

    Originally posted by Sandbox


    Originally posted by Obraik


    Originally posted by Sandbox


    Originally posted by superniceguy


    Originally posted by tixylix

    (mod edit)

    SWG was not dead until Dec 15th 2011. Althought started to decline after the shutdown announcement on 24th June 2011

    An article one day before the shutdown announcement

    When they announced SWGs shutdown it had 4 FULL servers, but SWTOR is rarely getting one these days, but should get 60 in comparison.

    SWTOR is dying faster than SWG was

    SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

    Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

    I agree with your last line.

    Not sure how that makes sense, considering that despite the profession system being simplified, SWG was still a much more complex game when it was shutdown in December than what TOR is.  Infact, I can't think of any MMO released since 2003/2004 that has more complexities to it than SWG, even post NGE.  I await the day when a game company decides to try and best that...

    I put that a little harsh, sorry.

    My point was; as long as people are satisfied with less, that's what we will get.



    NGE was a clear move from Star Wars world simulation to Star Wars theme park, with loot based gear, killing much of economy etc... Had SOE not killed all the old professions or screwed the network code with Benny Hill movement at least I had choosed SWG before SWTOR.

    I'll agree that they simplified the professions but I wouldn't say they took away the Star Wars world simulation.  That part of the game wasn't changed with the NGE, nor was it loot based for gear.  Equipable loot items were far, far inferior to crafted items and buff loot items didn't conflict with crafted buff items.  You would not have been able to play without crafted items.

    bollocks and you know it.

     

    they put a linear quest to level up in detriment of doing your own thing. 

     

    that linear quest supplied the player with everything he could possibly need via loot drops or quest rewards.

     

    they put flashy quest icons atop NPCs with friggin floor indicators to show him where he had to run next.

     

    the friggin heroics were raid dungeons which dropped the most desired loot and encouraged the player to repeat those countless times to get the best gear. POIs became ghost spots and drops from the wilderness were rendered useless.  When was the last time you went on a hunting expedition or visited a POI to grind or loot?

     

    interdependancy between players was completely scrapped. not much of a simulation when you can get by yourself just fine. 

     

    ITVs made whatever simulation the game first intended a joke. Push a button and spawn anyhere anytime? LOL. So much for simulation...

     

    the risk factor was completely taken out of the game with the nerf of NPCs, removal of death penalties, and increase in vehicle and avatar speed. 

     

    sandstorms and rain ceased to affect accuracy...

     

    ....

     

    man the list goes on and on but i am not going to bother because you are either trolling or you've just proven (yet again) why you were part of Nancy's target market. 

     

     

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  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member

    Originally posted by eddieg50

      As soon as the op started talking about the grind I knew he just did not understand why bioware was making a game such as this.  This is a game to be savored, this is not a rush to the end game. With story, cut scenes and great voice overs bioware wants the journey to be important.  All those who do not want to go on the journey are going to be unhappy and for the rest of us - Let the Journey begin

    completely disagree, i played some, i'll be it i didn't get past the intro areas however from what i've seen of my own play and my roommates gameplay i have to say that the grind is definitely intentional. It's not to be savored grinding is never fun and the killtenrats series of quests gets boring. Why do i have to spend ten minutes talking to someone about killing ten enemies before heading out for each and every quest?  Where are the varieties of objectives? Why couldn't they have at the VERY least added two choices to acomplish rather then simply kill this many kill that many, or the oh so boring, run all the way over there and talk to an npc. Didn't they have communicators of some kind in this time period? And that's the other thing, why does anyone have to return to the quest giver WAAAAAY back at camp to turnin anything at this point? What's up with that?

    The VO's are great but when you take them out of the picture you are left with the 2004 version of world of warcraft's questing system and since Cata even Blizz has somewhat learned from their mistake by making some questing in the beginning zones a remote turnin.

    The problem isn't the game or the company the problem is their design it's old and it shows, the VO's and companions are fun but really why isn't the rest of the game better then what's out now and why aren't there more common sense ui elements put into the game?

  • ObraikObraik ChristchurchPosts: 7,261Member

    Originally posted by Troneas

    Originally posted by Obraik


    Originally posted by Sandbox


    Originally posted by Obraik


    Originally posted by Sandbox


    Originally posted by superniceguy


    Originally posted by tixylix

    (mod edit)

    SWG was not dead until Dec 15th 2011. Althought started to decline after the shutdown announcement on 24th June 2011

    An article one day before the shutdown announcement

    When they announced SWGs shutdown it had 4 FULL servers, but SWTOR is rarely getting one these days, but should get 60 in comparison.

    SWTOR is dying faster than SWG was

    SWG shutdown announcement was around 1 Nov 2005, when they announced the NGE.

    Players that supported SWG after the NGE are mostly responsible for the failure of SWTOR, sending the wrong signals to the MMO-market.

    I agree with your last line.

    Not sure how that makes sense, considering that despite the profession system being simplified, SWG was still a much more complex game when it was shutdown in December than what TOR is.  Infact, I can't think of any MMO released since 2003/2004 that has more complexities to it than SWG, even post NGE.  I await the day when a game company decides to try and best that...

    I put that a little harsh, sorry.

    My point was; as long as people are satisfied with less, that's what we will get.



    NGE was a clear move from Star Wars world simulation to Star Wars theme park, with loot based gear, killing much of economy etc... Had SOE not killed all the old professions or screwed the network code with Benny Hill movement at least I had choosed SWG before SWTOR.

    I'll agree that they simplified the professions but I wouldn't say they took away the Star Wars world simulation.  That part of the game wasn't changed with the NGE, nor was it loot based for gear.  Equipable loot items were far, far inferior to crafted items and buff loot items didn't conflict with crafted buff items.  You would not have been able to play without crafted items.

    bollocks and you know it.

     

    they put a linear quest to level up in detriment of doing your own thing. 

    They added XP rewards to quests, but there was no reason why you couldn't go out and grind off NPCs like in the past

     

    that linear quest supplied the player with everything he could possibly need via loot drops or quest rewards.

     For the initial levels, sure, but once you got past level 40ish the loot starts to become inferior to crafted.

    they put flashy quest icons atop NPCs with friggin floor indicators to show him where he had to run next.

     NPCs always had icons above their heads, even in pre-cu.  In the very beginning of the legacy quests waypoints were very specific as to where you needed to go and who to talk to but as you leveled up and are assumed to have learnt how things work those obvious hints dissapeared

    the friggin heroics were raid dungeons which dropped the most desired loot and encouraged the player to repeat those countless times to get the best gear. POIs became ghost spots and drops from the wilderness were rendered useless.  When was the last time you went on a hunting expedition or visited a POI to grind or loot?

     Sure, the loots were desirable but they didn't compete with items crafted by crafters.  In the case of weapons and armour they intentionally had very low damage stats and little or no stat bonuses.  You could break those down into a schematic to have them crafted by a weaponsmith/armoursmith to have them made far superior (we're talking 500+ DPS difference here).  Furniture items were given out in schematic form.  The buff items (what few there were that dropped from heroics) didn't take the place of any crafted foods or drinks.  Anyone who was grinding a pet up could probably tell you just how many times they went to a POI ;)

    interdependancy between players was completely scrapped. not much of a simulation when you can get by yourself just fine. 

     In world PvE you could do ok on your own if you were skilled with the game and knew your profession well.  There was plenty where you did infact need to rely on others to get what you needed, and certain professions would make that easier to achieve (Officer and Medic are obvious examples).  I'm sure I don't need to go into how interdependancy played a big part in PvP.

    ITVs made whatever simulation the game first intended a joke. Push a button and spawn anyhere anytime? LOL. So much for simulation...

     Most ITV's didn't take you anywhere you wanted, just to a shuttle or starport on the planet.  There were two ITV's towards during the last 2 years of the game that did let you pre-set 2-3 locations anywhere you could drop an ITV and then use it to go to any of those 2-3 points from anywhere in the game but they were rare/expensive and not overly common.  You also had to set the points ahead of time

    the risk factor was completely taken out of the game with the nerf of NPCs, removal of death penalties, and increase in vehicle and avatar speed. 

    I'll give you this, the risk factor was too low.  I would have welcomed harsher penalties to deter people from being so complacent about dying.  I remember early on in the NGE they were publicly brainstorming the idea of adding death penalties in the form of bringing back insurance and those items that weren't insured could be looted, much the same as it was when the game was first released.  Unfortunately, too many people cried, even when lesser penalties were offered that they scraped the idea and later just added cloning sickness.

    I'm rather indifferent on the subject of the vehicle and avatar speeds.  I don't see how it really had an effect on the world aspect of the game - you still saw the world, just at a different rate.

    I'd say the NPC difficulty at the end of the NGE was greater than it was most of the CU but lesser than after they improved the NPC AI towards the end of the CU.  With the later content they added they were starting to get some good abilities added to the AI that made them a challenge.

     

    sandstorms and rain ceased to affect accuracy...

     

    ....

     

    man the list goes on and on but i am not going to bother because you are either trolling or you've just proven (yet again) why you were part of Nancy's target market. 

     

     

    I think I managed to correct most of what I wrote to be in the past tense :(

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