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The Decline of the MMORPG genre

YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

I just wrote a new blog entry about it here: http://taleofshahin.blogspot.com/2012/03/decline-of-mmorpg-genre.html

To summarise I believe that instead of the genre producing something like this:

 

We instead got this:

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Comments

  • VengerVenger York, PAPosts: 1,318Member

    Not a bad read and I agree with most of your points.  You put the blame on EQ lite I mean WoW which is the popular knee jerk response. 

    I think if we really want to try to grow beyond where we are know we need to try to correct the core problem.  To me the core problem is mmos became really popular by mimicing single player rpgs and almost everyone has copied EQs success in various ways.  You and your little party going from point a to b to c to d, kill a boss at e on to f, g, h, i, kill a boss at j.......

    "habitant in a living, breathing world"

    To me this is what EQ took away mmo genre.  Gone were the days of being just a fisherman.  Everyone had to be a adventurer.

  • TealaTeala SomewherePosts: 7,430Member Uncommon

    Good read...and I agree, the game genre took a turn and headed down the road that took us away from what I believe these games promised to deliver or were meant to deliver.   Instead it turned away from sandbox game play and givng players a myriad of ways to play the game to being streamed lined into games that required little to know thought from the player as to what they were going to be doing because the designers made games on rails.   The further you get from UO the further you get from actual worlds that allow players to do more than just combat and grind for gear.   Todays games are centered around 1 goal primarily and that is gear.  You even raid in the end game of these games for what?  Oh yeah...that's right  - gear.  

    That is not to say there isn't room for themepark based games in this genre, but by the industry thinking that since WoW was successful, well then all games must be like WoW - (removal of sandbox game and elements) - they essentially stagnated the genre and we're seeing the results of it.

    Game after game is released.   People  play them and go, wth...more of the same.  They abandon that game and wait for the next, wash, rinse, repeat and we've seen this since WoW.  WoW was a fluke...anyone that knows this genres history knows why WoW made it big.   That is not to say that WoW is not a great game, becuase it is, for what it is...and that is why the others have failed so meserably to catch on.   Other games tried to imitate WoW - one thing though - if you are going make a great game like WoW you have to do it as good or better than WoW has.   So far every game that has came after WoW has not done this and it shows.

    Far as I am concerned I am waiting for games like ArcheAge.   This is the only game currently on the horizon that will give us a game that, in my opinion, is the type MMORPG's we should have been getting - persistent, open world sandbox.

    image
  • alancodealancode El Mirage, AZPosts: 131Member

    Originally posted by Teala

    Good read...and I agree, the game genre took a turn and headed down the road that took us away from what I believe these games promised to deliver or were meant to deliver.   Instead it turned away from sandbox game play and givng players a myriad of ways to play the game to being streamed lined into games that required little to know thought from the player as to what they were going to be doing because the designers made games on rails.   The further you get from UO the further you get from actual worlds that allow players to do more than just combat and grind for gear.   Todays games are centered around 1 goal primarily and that is gear.  You even raid in the end game of these games for what?  Oh yeah...that's right  - gear.  

    That is not to say there isn't room for themepark based games in this genre, but by the industry thinking that since WoW was successful, well then all games must be like WoW - (removal of sandbox game and elements) - they essentially stagnated the genre and we're seeing the results of it.

    Game after game is released.   People  play them and go, wth...more of the same.  They abandon that game and wait for the next, wash, rinse, repeat and we've seen this since WoW.  WoW was a fluke...anyone that knows this genres history knows why WoW made it big.   That is not to say that WoW is not a great game, becuase it is, for what it is...and that is why the others have failed so meserably to catch on.   Other games tried to imitate WoW - one thing though - if you are going make a great game like WoW you have to do it as good or better than WoW has.   So far every game that has came after WoW has not done this and it shows.

    Far as I am concerned I am waiting for games like ArcheAge.   This is the only game currently on the horizon that will give us a game that, in my opinion, is the type MMORPG's we should have been getting - persistent, open world sandbox.

    I agree totally with you, but what game can we play until then because its going to be a while for archeage. 

    (-_-)

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common

    Seriously. You had to start a new thread for this?

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • TealaTeala SomewherePosts: 7,430Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by alancode

    Originally posted by Teala

    Good read...and I agree, the game genre took a turn and headed down the road that took us away from what I believe these games promised to deliver or were meant to deliver.   Instead it turned away from sandbox game play and givng players a myriad of ways to play the game to being streamed lined into games that required little to know thought from the player as to what they were going to be doing because the designers made games on rails.   The further you get from UO the further you get from actual worlds that allow players to do more than just combat and grind for gear.   Todays games are centered around 1 goal primarily and that is gear.  You even raid in the end game of these games for what?  Oh yeah...that's right  - gear.  

    That is not to say there isn't room for themepark based games in this genre, but by the industry thinking that since WoW was successful, well then all games must be like WoW - (removal of sandbox game and elements) - they essentially stagnated the genre and we're seeing the results of it.

    Game after game is released.   People  play them and go, wth...more of the same.  They abandon that game and wait for the next, wash, rinse, repeat and we've seen this since WoW.  WoW was a fluke...anyone that knows this genres history knows why WoW made it big.   That is not to say that WoW is not a great game, becuase it is, for what it is...and that is why the others have failed so meserably to catch on.   Other games tried to imitate WoW - one thing though - if you are going make a great game like WoW you have to do it as good or better than WoW has.   So far every game that has came after WoW has not done this and it shows.

    Far as I am concerned I am waiting for games like ArcheAge.   This is the only game currently on the horizon that will give us a game that, in my opinion, is the type MMORPG's we should have been getting - persistent, open world sandbox.

    I agree totally with you, but what game can we play until then because its going to be a while for archeage. 



    ::shrugs:: I dunno, I am playing Skyrim, Warband, and WoW.    Plus summer is getting closer and there is tons of things to do outside.  Go mountain biking, surfing, para-sailing, hiking...get out...see the real world for a bit.  ^_^

    image
  • alkarionlogalkarionlog SPosts: 1,124Member Uncommon

    still I blame WOW for this

    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
    image

  • Goatgod76Goatgod76 Stow, OHPosts: 1,214Member

    I have been bashing my fingertips to the bone saying these same things over and over only to be flamed to death and told I was wrong by the fanboys. But it's funny that...if we are so wrong, why are SO MANY saying the same thing about all of this on a daily basis? and so many complaining about the lack of anything truly unique, innovative,  or just all around interesting in all these MMO's coming out?

     

    Sadly...Skyrim has more of an MMORPG feel than any current MMORPG on the market.

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    Originally posted by Teala

    Originally posted by alancode


    Originally posted by Teala

    Good read...and I agree, the game genre took a turn and headed down the road that took us away from what I believe these games promised to deliver or were meant to deliver.   Instead it turned away from sandbox game play and givng players a myriad of ways to play the game to being streamed lined into games that required little to know thought from the player as to what they were going to be doing because the designers made games on rails.   The further you get from UO the further you get from actual worlds that allow players to do more than just combat and grind for gear.   Todays games are centered around 1 goal primarily and that is gear.  You even raid in the end game of these games for what?  Oh yeah...that's right  - gear.  

    That is not to say there isn't room for themepark based games in this genre, but by the industry thinking that since WoW was successful, well then all games must be like WoW - (removal of sandbox game and elements) - they essentially stagnated the genre and we're seeing the results of it.

    Game after game is released.   People  play them and go, wth...more of the same.  They abandon that game and wait for the next, wash, rinse, repeat and we've seen this since WoW.  WoW was a fluke...anyone that knows this genres history knows why WoW made it big.   That is not to say that WoW is not a great game, becuase it is, for what it is...and that is why the others have failed so meserably to catch on.   Other games tried to imitate WoW - one thing though - if you are going make a great game like WoW you have to do it as good or better than WoW has.   So far every game that has came after WoW has not done this and it shows.

    Far as I am concerned I am waiting for games like ArcheAge.   This is the only game currently on the horizon that will give us a game that, in my opinion, is the type MMORPG's we should have been getting - persistent, open world sandbox.

    I agree totally with you, but what game can we play until then because its going to be a while for archeage. 



    ::shrugs:: I dunno, I am playing Skyrim, Warband, and WoW.    Plus summer is getting closer and there is tons of things to do outside.  Go mountain biking, surfing, para-sailing, hiking...get out...see the real world for a bit.  ^_^

    Agreed with Teala. 

    I actually don't play mmropg's (or any mmos) since 6/2011 cause of what you wroite and just cause they don't fulfill bare minimum of my expectations and suprisingly it is not so bad.  Single player / normal multiplayer games + increased focus on real world fun & activities fill up my time preety nicely :)

    Was easier than I thought.

    Beat trying countless mmorpg's that I know they won't feel my 'needs' just in order to play ANY mmo.

     

    Only exception I will propably do for GW2 to check B2P model in mmorpg and to check 'what's hype about'.

    Beside that I don't see me playing any mmorpg until ArcheAge (well TERA's not bad ,but seriously I don't want to settle for something "not bad" so I will ultimately give it a pass).

  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYPosts: 2,211Member

    Well technically out of all the players who play mmorpgs only a small number, relatively, are saying these things, but nevertheless I agree with the overall point. MMORPGs as a genre have been degrading for years.

  • Goatgod76Goatgod76 Stow, OHPosts: 1,214Member

    Originally posted by Cuathon

    Well technically out of all the players who play mmorpgs only a small number, relatively, are saying these things

    And that is why they are garbage. Too many new school players that have never tried, or never got the chance to experience what made them great and a different genre from...well, any other gaming genre. Nor do they seem to care to.

  • ropeniceropenice Lake Worth, FLPosts: 587Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Venger

    Not a bad read and I agree with most of your points.  You put the blame on EQ lite I mean WoW which is the popular knee jerk response. 

    I think if we really want to try to grow beyond where we are know we need to try to correct the core problem.  To me the core problem is mmos became really popular by mimicing single player rpgs and almost everyone has copied EQs success in various ways.  You and your little party going from point a to b to c to d, kill a boss at e on to f, g, h, i, kill a boss at j.......

    "habitant in a living, breathing world"

    To me this is what EQ took away mmo genre.  Gone were the days of being just a fisherman.  Everyone had to be a adventurer.

    They have fishing games you can get, or better yet, you can go out and fish for real-you know, Outside. I don't think most people want to dot hings in games that they can do in real life-at least people that play MMORPG's. Most people want to adventure-fight with sword/spells, fly through space, etc-fun type things that you can't do in real life. Unless maybe if you were an Astronaut. The problem is the retreading of ideas making the genre stagnant. Many are tired of playing the same games with new skins. And the few that do try new things usually are low-budget or bad company, so they fail and others are scared to try something new and possibly fail.

    Oh, and you could fish in EQ.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Originally posted by Goatgod76

    I have been bashing my fingertips to the bone saying these same things over and over only to be flamed to death and told I was wrong by the fanboys. But it's funny that...if we are so wrong, why are SO MANY saying the same thing about all of this on a daily basis? and so many complaining about the lack of anything truly unique, innovative,  or just all around interesting in all these MMO's coming out?

     

    Sadly...Skyrim has more of an MMORPG feel than any current MMORPG on the market.

    What "so many"? A few people (even a few hundred) people on ONE internet forum do not make "so many" in a market with millions.

    Plus, they probably have nothing better to do but to whine.

  • CicceroCiccero Rossville, GAPosts: 118Member

    MMOs arent  declining in any sense other than mature players are bored of the younger players as fr as I can tell.

     

  • Goatgod76Goatgod76 Stow, OHPosts: 1,214Member

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Goatgod76

    I have been bashing my fingertips to the bone saying these same things over and over only to be flamed to death and told I was wrong by the fanboys. But it's funny that...if we are so wrong, why are SO MANY saying the same thing about all of this on a daily basis? and so many complaining about the lack of anything truly unique, innovative,  or just all around interesting in all these MMO's coming out?

     

    Sadly...Skyrim has more of an MMORPG feel than any current MMORPG on the market.

    What "so many"? A few people (even a few hundred) people on ONE internet forum do not make "so many" in a market with millions.

    Plus, they probably have nothing better to do but to whine.

    Beg to differ.  I see it on many sites, hear it in many game shops I go to looking for games. Just seems not that many because they are outwhined by the new schoolers. Again...too many new schoolers who are selfish and have ADD that are fine to have the "Look! I am a hero and special!" single player MMO that just "happens to have" other players roaming it too. But community is nearly extinct in them...which is what made them worth playing for years on top of the free to roam, open world gameplay...that also no longer exists since you are funneled everywhere with dots and ?/!'s.

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    Originally posted by Goatgod76

    Originally posted by Cuathon

    Well technically out of all the players who play mmorpgs only a small number, relatively, are saying these things

    And that is why they are garbage. Too many new school players that have never tried, or never got the chance to experience what made them great and a different genre from...well, any other gaming genre. Nor do they seem to care to.

    Yes exactly. I tried to explain to a collegue of mine why I am into MMORPGs but dont like WoW (he does), So I tried telling him about how it used to be an open online world where you were not funneled from zone to zone but rather was free to explore and do what you wanted. But I just got a puzzled look from him and he just said: I never played those games.

    So I think alot of these so called new school MMORPG gamers, WoW and after, don't really know that there was something before and that something was quite alot of different from ThemeParks of now.

    But I do agree with Teala. There is certainly room for both ThemeParks, for more casual people, and sandbox for the one's that are more into virtual worlds. Problem is that sandbox has been considered a failure, by investers/producers. so almost all money is funneled into creating and endless stream of ThemeParks and that is a problem.

    The reason that is a problem is that MMORPGs were really the next step of gaming, the idea that you dont live in your own little bubble but rather share this world with other's and where the existing sandbox elements were just the first steps and it kind of died after that, viritually stopping any evolution of gaming that occured with Ultima Online and Asherons Call.

    And games like SW:TOR is really a step back because it thinks by introducing more single player elements and isolating people from other which is completely the opposite of what games like Ultima Online tried to do. Really a shame as SWG did try to continue the steps of UO but was killed by a clueless greedy idiot who thought by changing SWG into WoW would earn a million subs. 

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Originally posted by Goatgod76

     

    Beg to differ.  I see it on many sites, hear it in many game shops I go to looking for games. Just seems not that many because they are outwhined by the new schoolers. Again...too many new schoolers who are selfish and have ADD that are fine to have the "Look! I am a hero and special!" single player MMO that just "happens to have" other players roaming it too. But community is nearly extinct in them...which is what made them worth playing for years on top of the free to roam, open world gameplay...that also no longer exists since you are funneled everywhere with dots and ?/!'s.

    1) games do not have to be played for years.

    2) I don't miss the open world gameplay at all. It is MUCH better to have a well designed dungeon and go in with 5 others, than an empty open world with little to do.

     

  • DogPeeOnTreeDogPeeOnTree BurgasPosts: 92Member

    No sci fi games,space, u can count em on both hands.Only dragons,elf,swords,and dragons and orcs and wolfs,and shit all medevil shit,Really  there is not enough color in the janras to choose from.Woud love to see minecraft still mmoo not pixel,blocked but to go outside u kil get hungry make ur house settle in,afraid to go outside on dark etc.But we see only  fails like Starwars pop up made up its popularity cause its name and fanbase nothink else.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Originally posted by Yamota

    But I do agree with Teala. There is certainly room for both ThemeParks, for more casual people, and sandbox for the one's that are more into virtual worlds. Problem is that sandbox has been considered a failure, by investers/producers. so almost all money is funneled into creating and endless stream of ThemeParks and that is a problem.

    Of coures sandbox are considered failures. Even the less successful themeparks like Rift, Aion and TOR generates MUCH larger box sales than the most successful sandbox (Eve). And aside from Eve, all the other efforts are small and insignificant.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Originally posted by DogPeeTree

    No sci fi games,space, u can count em on both hands.Only dragons,elf,swords,and dragons and orcs and wolfs,and shit all medevil shit,Really  there is not enough color in the janras to choose from.Woud love to see minecraft still mmoo not pixel,blocked but to go outside u kil get hungry make ur house settle in,afraid to go outside on dark etc.But we see only  fails like Starwars pop up made up its popularity cause its name and fanbase nothink else.

     

    Uh?

    TOR, STO, Eve, COH, DC Universe, ....

     

  • FSE-CamelFSE-Camel Seattle, WAPosts: 32Member

    I agree with the sentiment here. I think the relatively small number of people making these complaints are what is left of the original MMO-ers. There wasn't all that many of us in the beginning. I actually feel sorry in a way for the "wow generation" mmo players that have only played games like that (SWTOR etc). While some of these games are good in their own right, they completely lack the freedom and promise of a "virtual world" that the old games had. 

    I maintain that in "vision", not necessarily execution, that early SWG was the best MMO ever conceived. Even with its faults, I had a blast in that game. No MMO has been released in the past 8 years that has me looking forward to logging in like the old school ones did. Its a shame really. I don't think its going to change though...

  • ElderRatElderRat Syracuse, NYPosts: 899Member

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Yamota



    But I do agree with Teala. There is certainly room for both ThemeParks, for more casual people, and sandbox for the one's that are more into virtual worlds. Problem is that sandbox has been considered a failure, by investers/producers. so almost all money is funneled into creating and endless stream of ThemeParks and that is a problem.

    Of coures sandbox are considered failures. Even the less successful themeparks like Rift, Aion and TOR generates MUCH larger box sales than the most successful sandbox (Eve). And aside from Eve, all the other efforts are small and insignificant.

     

    you do not have to buy EVE to play it - which accounts for the lack of box sales. Of course for the greed element in the producing of games that would never do, never.

    Currently bored with MMO's.

  • Goatgod76Goatgod76 Stow, OHPosts: 1,214Member

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Goatgod76


     

    Beg to differ.  I see it on many sites, hear it in many game shops I go to looking for games. Just seems not that many because they are outwhined by the new schoolers. Again...too many new schoolers who are selfish and have ADD that are fine to have the "Look! I am a hero and special!" single player MMO that just "happens to have" other players roaming it too. But community is nearly extinct in them...which is what made them worth playing for years on top of the free to roam, open world gameplay...that also no longer exists since you are funneled everywhere with dots and ?/!'s.

    1) games do not have to be played for years.

    2) I don't miss the open world gameplay at all. It is MUCH better to have a well designed dungeon and go in with 5 others, than an empty open world with little to do.

     

    Well then play one of those and don't complain about someone liking something different. THIS is what is wrong with this genre. Too many selfish post-WoW players such as yourself who greedily want all MMORPG's to cater to you. Sounds like your looking for console gameplay...where you can have your fast ADD filled fun and be done with it.

  • DogPeeOnTreeDogPeeOnTree BurgasPosts: 92Member

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by DogPeeTree

    No sci fi games,space, u can count em on both hands.Only dragons,elf,swords,and dragons and orcs and wolfs,and shit all medevil shit,Really  there is not enough color in the janras to choose from.Woud love to see minecraft still mmoo not pixel,blocked but to go outside u kil get hungry make ur house settle in,afraid to go outside on dark etc.But we see only  fails like Starwars pop up made up its popularity cause its name and fanbase nothink else.

     

    Uh?

    TOR, STO, Eve, COH, DC Universe, ....

     

    And thats it.Eve is cool iv tryed force to play it myself but fall asleep couple of times,Dc universe is so limitless and only survival  are its expansions.Guess somethink Freelancer like devs to think outside fuckin WoW/EQ box and stop making cliche mmos.There is mmo comin out this year Otherland ,really liked how its new and different than all the shit its coming out/came out.

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Yamota



    But I do agree with Teala. There is certainly room for both ThemeParks, for more casual people, and sandbox for the one's that are more into virtual worlds. Problem is that sandbox has been considered a failure, by investers/producers. so almost all money is funneled into creating and endless stream of ThemeParks and that is a problem.

    Of coures sandbox are considered failures. Even the less successful themeparks like Rift, Aion and TOR generates MUCH larger box sales than the most successful sandbox (Eve). And aside from Eve, all the other efforts are small and insignificant.

     

    If FPS games would generate more box sales than an RTS game then RTS games would be considered failures?

    Ofcourse not because the target audience is different and in the case of sandbox vs themeparks the audience of the latter is far greater but they are so different from each other that the target audience is different and it is certainly possible to create a successful sandbox. Eve is the best example of that but heck even Asheron's Call is still alive and kicking, 10 years after its release.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,644Member Uncommon

     



    • The genre has branched out and evolved.


    • It has enterd browsers, consoles and mobile devices.


    • It has expanded its audience to include a braoder range of ages.


    • It has seems a great reduction in the imbalance between male and female players among its ranks


    • It has spawned a broader MMO market, opening the doors for the MMOFPS, MMORTS, ActionARPG, MOBAs to gain wider acceptance.


    • In 10 years, the number of MMORPGs has risen from less than a dozen to several hundred.


    • It has brought millions of new players into online gaming.

     

    It's hard to define the state of MMORPGs as decline.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

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