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Am I the only one that misses the greatness of buffs in MMOs

StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member

Both EQ and DAoC had tons of buffs that made a significant impact on how the games were played. You would roll classes just for the buffs.

 

Hell they even contributed to an important social aspect of the games. You would seek out other people to get them. Strike conversations. Befriend a cleric or an enchanter or a druid. People made money off buffs and had fun doing that. You would run past a camp of people and would buff them just to help out, getting a lot of gratitude. You even traded buffs with other people on your travels. You cared about refreshing them

 

Just to use the worst of the worst as an example. In SWTOR you get 1 buff to throw on others and yourself. That's it. May as well make it a permanent stat change on your character rather than have a clicky

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Comments

  • dllddlld GöteborgPosts: 541Member Uncommon

    You tend to end up having to bring a very specific composition to do capped (ie not "unlimited" amount of players) group content if there are lots of buffs spread out over classes because content has to be designed around the most powerfull composition (which tends to be the one with the most/all buffs)

  • attila2099attila2099 Stratford, ONPosts: 5Member

    I miss the buffs too.  All the games now a days have to be fair.  Oh you have this ability?  Well My class needs it too... BoP so on so forth.

     

    I miss the diversity of classes and such in games too lol.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member

    I do not miss being so reliant on a class's buff that certain portions can be rather unbearable without them.

    No...

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member

    Originally posted by Wickedjelly

    I do not miss being so reliant on a class's buff that certain portions can be rather unbearable without them.

    No...

    You've always had the option of seeking people out for buffs. The way things are now we might as well eliminate buffs completely since they have lost all meaning

  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member

    I miss how interdependant buffs could make classes.  I like how they made a small group more than the sum of its parts.  I hate how they just add insignificantly trivial bonuses these days, instead.  

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • DeolusDeolus DoncasterPosts: 392Member
    Not to mention EQ buffs could last for hours and not seconds as in more recent games.
  • Crunchy221Crunchy221 Trollsberg, ILPosts: 489Member

    Nothing...and i mean NOTHING..will top Anarchy Online's buff system.

    It had limits it had a wide array of various buffs...just about any of their (was it 100+?) skills could be buffed.  You needed buffs to put on some gear (tweaking...which may have been the first game to coin that term) that was a bit beyond what you could equip? then you could ask in chat or friend for the players who could buff you into that gear (gear was skill not level locked)

    Basically you had a type of gear called a CPU that had slots for memory.  The memory slots could be filled with...memory....  The amount of memory and the cype of CPU that could be equipped were skill not level based.  Every buff took up a certain amount of memory, based on how strong it was.

     

    You could junk up someone memory with crappy buffs they would have to delete, or buff them with a series of stat and skill buffs that would allow them to put on gear they wouldnt have been able to wear for several levels worth of skill.

    Back when the game was serious...you died and lost you gear (it was sitting in an insurace terminal) with a hefty skill/stat penalty on a timer.  This meant that even if you wore equipment that you didnt need buffs to equip you couldnt put it on untill the death peanalty was over.  People who had high level people buff them and used stratigic implants (implants were like a second set of gear following the same principles) in order to equip gear would have to pull out their gear/implant cheat sheet and summon their buddies to equip it.

     

    Ahh the good old days when things required thought.

     

    I also miss the act of running through a nooby area and buffing the noobs...they were always so confused and greatfull.

    Int he end, buffs like in EQ and DAOC...were basically requirements, buffed on both side of the battle and thus negated.  I think that was what started the trend of removing them.  If you didnt have full buffs there wasnt much of a point.

    Currently in SWTOR theres a single class buff based on a % thats the same at level 10 as it is at 50.  No one cares if you buff them, people dont randomly buff passer-by-ers...when you buff someone you dont get thanked.  Its like why even bother with buffs?

     

  • holifeetholifeet BournemouthPosts: 532Member

    I miss having to go to PoK to get C3 and...what was the cleric one that everyone got...began with a T. Well I do because of the social side to it. I don't miss being in some small zone at the arse end of nowhere in EQ and needing clarity, but C3 had a major difference to it in that it lasted so long.

    Then there was the SWG way. Some doctor would set up his character to give out buffs while he was sleeping and there would be an all night service to boost your stats. It made the world more real. Here was a business and here was me relying on other players. In most games people come together for the odd 30 minutes while they complete a quest, then they're gone.

    In SWG and EQ I looked for people buffing and I remembered their names.

    Of course now is the day of the 30 minute group and the self buffs that last an hour before re-applying. There's very little buffing of your fellow player. You can't be a hero of a man and run to a lowbie zone and buff the nooblets. There's not enough to buff them with to make it worthwhile or the game has some crazy principle that says you can't buff lowbies.

    True most games are so easy that any buffs would zoom lowbies through content faster than superman on laxatives, but that just screams one ever so simple direction for devs to take.

    Make games harder and let people pay for buffs. Make them a service. Like the good old days.

    All hail the Pixel, for it is glorious Orange!
    .
  • poweruopoweruo MallingPosts: 30Member

    Im sorta happy the buffing days are over (for now atleast). Take DaOC (great game) you had to have buffbots that could do nothing but buff you. If you went the way of buffs(druid) you were next to useless in combat on your own, which is why they were called bots cause people would have them standing at keeps and whatnot on a secondary account doing nothing but buffing.

    There is one exception to my opinion though and that is Anarchy Online. I loved the buff system in that game. Even the major buffer( the trader) was usefull in combat doing major debuffing among other things. AO nailed it.

  • jinxxed0jinxxed0 columbia, SCPosts: 838Member

    Since I play city of heroes, no. theres a good balance of buffers and they're usually always wanted for big missions/trials. I remember in lineage 2 when bufferes would charge for buffs. It was complete BS so either way I still don't miss it.

  • vladwwvladww La provencePosts: 416Member Uncommon

    Early EQ1 buffs were useful & well balanced

    Most of all, they made many classes original & unique

    New theme park mmorpg's totally lost it

    ****************************
    Playing : Uncharted Waters Online
    ****************************

  • ForumPvPForumPvP KingstownPosts: 871Member

    Originally posted by Crunchy221

    Nothing...and i mean NOTHING..will top Anarchy Online's buff system.

    It had limits it had a wide array of various buffs...just about any of their (was it 100+?) skills could be buffed.  You needed buffs to put on some gear (tweaking...which may have been the first game to coin that term) that was a bit beyond what you could equip? then you could ask in chat or friend for the players who could buff you into that gear (gear was skill not level locked)

    Basically you had a type of gear called a CPU that had slots for memory.  The memory slots could be filled with...memory....  The amount of memory and the cype of CPU that could be equipped were skill not level based.  Every buff took up a certain amount of memory, based on how strong it was.

     

    You could junk up someone memory with crappy buffs they would have to delete, or buff them with a series of stat and skill buffs that would allow them to put on gear they wouldnt have been able to wear for several levels worth of skill.

    Back when the game was serious...you died and lost you gear (it was sitting in an insurace terminal) with a hefty skill/stat penalty on a timer.  This meant that even if you wore equipment that you didnt need buffs to equip you couldnt put it on untill the death peanalty was over.  People who had high level people buff them and used stratigic implants (implants were like a second set of gear following the same principles) in order to equip gear would have to pull out their gear/implant cheat sheet and summon their buddies to equip it.

     

    Ahh the good old days when things required thought.

     

    I also miss the act of running through a nooby area and buffing the noobs...they were always so confused and greatfull.

    Int he end, buffs like in EQ and DAOC...were basically requirements, buffed on both side of the battle and thus negated.  I think that was what started the trend of removing them.  If you didnt have full buffs there wasnt much of a point.

    Currently in SWTOR theres a single class buff based on a % thats the same at level 10 as it is at 50.  No one cares if you buff them, people dont randomly buff passer-by-ers...when you buff someone you dont get thanked.  Its like why even bother with buffs?

     

    agrees 110%

    some peeps even changed gear so they can pull out that buff ,just for you.  "wait  here and  i swap some implants and stuff and then buff you " or  even trader basic "let me drain first" try to ask even that kind of simple things from next-gen MMO RPGrs hehe,thats why everything is automated.

     

     

    Let's internet

  • SagasaintSagasaint Miami, FLPosts: 460Member

    Originally posted by Starpower

    Hell they even contributed to an important social aspect of the games. You would seek out other people to get them. Strike conversations. Befriend a cleric or an enchanter or a druid. People made money off buffs and had fun doing that. You would run past a camp of people and would buff them just to help out, getting a lot of gratitude. You even traded buffs with other people on your travels. You cared about refreshing them

    that was the theory

    in the practice, however, most people simply paid for a second account and grinded a buffer for themselves or their guild party. and then complained because they had to work leveling 2 chars and pay 2 accounts. L2 was a prime example of this.

    thats why the concept of buffer has been removed in the industry, because the players were against it based on selfish reasons

  • DannyGloverDannyGlover Portland, ORPosts: 1,277Member

    The last few years of SWG was a buffing clusterf**k. You had to have like 50 buffs just to compete in pvp. I like buffs n all, but there needs to be a balance.

    I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.

  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,556Member Uncommon

    I do miss buffs being significant.  However, I think that some of the old school games went a bit overboard on the actual number of buffs needed.  There needs to be a balance, which I think current newer MMO's are light on buffs.  Somewhere between EQ and WoW importance. 

     

    Everyone that I play SWTOR with thinks I'm weird because I buff random people. SWTOR is on one end of the buff spectrum and EQ and some of the old school games are on the other end. I would prefer something a bit closer to EQ than SWTOR.

     

     

    What I really miss are the utility classes.

     

     

  • TalemireTalemire Clearwater, FLPosts: 756Member

    This thread.

    ------------------------------
    MMORPGs are great to look forward to after a hard day of work, but heaven is the ultimate reward for those who live Christ-like.

    image
  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon

    "Selling SOW at the South gate"   

    -timeless

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member

    A game like EQ wasn't really designed around the solo player. You were suppose to play socially and the buffs reflected that

  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member

    Originally posted by Starpower

    Both EQ and DAoC had tons of buffs that made a significant impact on how the games were played. You would roll classes just for the buffs.

     

    Hell they even contributed to an important social aspect of the games. You would seek out other people to get them. Strike conversations. Befriend a cleric or an enchanter or a druid. People made money off buffs and had fun doing that. You would run past a camp of people and would buff them just to help out, getting a lot of gratitude. You even traded buffs with other people on your travels. You cared about refreshing them

     

    Just to use the worst of the worst as an example. In SWTOR you get 1 buff to throw on others and yourself. That's it. May as well make it a permanent stat change on your character rather than have a clicky

     

    I like throwing buffs at people in TOR and getting buffed back, I even got group invite few times for a couple of standard quests just for the fun of grouping because of that. I dont understand why you say you miss buffs but then say TOR buffs could be just permanent stat boosts just because they are not big enough, maybe they are not a huge thing, but they are better than not having them.

     

    Anyway, no I dont like the idea of having so strong buffs that you are basically dependant on them. Dependant on other people to get something harder stuff done? Sure, ofcourse! Dependant on buffs? No thanks, it's like addition to trinity: "Looking for a tank and dps but only if you can buff awesome buff X!" - whee I'm dps but I cant join because I miss the awesome buff X.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,455Member Uncommon

    The only issue was that eventually players would start getting additional accounts just for buffers. They would then, making parties, leave out actual players who played buffer classes so that they couuld have a full part of dps, heal, tank and then tag along the buffers and park them in the hallway.

    Essentially the buffer clases would be nothing more than a battery.

    Additionally, at least in my experience, the buffer classes would have nothing really to do as they were there solely to give buffs.

    Of course, giving the classes their own buffs that they can give to the party might eliminate the need for a buffer class but it would of course allow players to have some buffs they could throw on people.

    I suppose I sort of miss them as well though I remember it being a pain in the neck haivng to find someone every hour for a buff.

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member

    Originally posted by Kuinn

    Originally posted by Starpower

    Both EQ and DAoC had tons of buffs that made a significant impact on how the games were played. You would roll classes just for the buffs.

     

    Hell they even contributed to an important social aspect of the games. You would seek out other people to get them. Strike conversations. Befriend a cleric or an enchanter or a druid. People made money off buffs and had fun doing that. You would run past a camp of people and would buff them just to help out, getting a lot of gratitude. You even traded buffs with other people on your travels. You cared about refreshing them

     

    Just to use the worst of the worst as an example. In SWTOR you get 1 buff to throw on others and yourself. That's it. May as well make it a permanent stat change on your character rather than have a clicky

     

    I like throwing buffs at people in TOR and getting buffed back, I even got group invite few times for a couple of standard quests just for the fun of grouping because of that. I dont understand why you say you miss buffs but then say TOR buffs could be just permanent stat boosts just because they are not big enough, maybe they are not a huge thing, but they are better than not having them.

     

    Anyway, no I dont like the idea of having so strong buffs that you are basically dependant on them. Dependant on other people to get something harder stuff done? Sure, ofcourse! Dependant on buffs? No thanks, it's like addition to trinity: "Looking for a tank and dps but only if you can buff awesome buff X!" - whee I'm dps but I cant join because I miss the awesome buff X.

    I seriously think you are in a minority with that experience

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common

    Originally posted by DannyGlover

    The last few years of SWG was a buffing clusterf**k. You had to have like 50 buffs just to compete in pvp. I like buffs n all, but there needs to be a balance.

    God I hated Buff Wars Galaxies.

     

    I dont mind when its like 3-6 Buffs, but Mass Buff Stacking is just stupid.

    Especially when you are not only dependent on them to even play, but you are dependent on others for them.

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
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  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon

    Yes, you are the only one, in DAoC I had a Shaman buff bot, all he did was he was a 2nd account that we had follow us around and buff us.  We didn't have it in party, it was just an extra account that we used to buff us... totally fun to play THAT class right?

    Wrong.

     

    What game makers like Arena net are doing now is making classes bring unique debuffs or buffs that are active in combat from them DOING something, not just click a button and cast a buff  every hour.

     

    The new way is FAR FAR Better.

  • TwistingfateTwistingfate warren, MAPosts: 177Member

    I remember the buffs in Lineage 2. They were pretty badass. I loved being a SwordSinger in that game buffing people and smacking things with a sword haha. 

    Rose online was pretty awesome for buffs as well. When you got a fullset of cleric buffs as a lowbie you had a mini orgy haha. Running around at twice the speed with 100% crit chance one-shotting everything within melee range xD.

     

    I love buff classes. I find it really fun giving someone a massive increase in strength/survivability etc

    image

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member

    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    Yes, you are the only one, in DAoC I had a Shaman buff bot, all he did was he was a 2nd account that we had follow us around and buff us.  We didn't have it in party, it was just an extra account that we used to buff us... totally fun to play THAT class right?

    Wrong.

     

    What game makers like Arena net are doing now is making classes bring unique debuffs or buffs that are active in combat from them DOING something, not just click a button and cast a buff  every hour.

     

    The new way is FAR FAR Better.

    Well if you read the thread you would see I'm not alone.

     

    How you played your bot has nothing to do with me or those that enjoyed playing classes with great buffs. I knew plenty of clerics in DAoC played as main classes. Your experience using a shaman as a bot doesn't take away from that at all

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