If you need to socialize you will talk to your companion and you will LIKE IT!
Talking to other players has NO PLACE in an MMO!
lol. I thought it was weird you were having romantic relations with your companions... Kind of like dating a mannequin or something... And that AI program (Holly) one of my 'romance' options (Therin or something like that) had... I'm like, no way is my counsular having a romantic relationship with a guy who's got a thing for a holographic artificial intelligence program...
They were removed in beta and replaced with the fleet. Theres the cantinas for rp'ers i guess.
HAIII JUST1!
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni ( o.o) (")(") **This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
Do people really expect to be THIS spoon fed these days?
There's cantina's everywhere, there even one on the fleet! There's tons of buildings and cool places around that could be used as social hubs. If you want a social hub, go someplace and be social!
Or are you expecting there to be some place where you get social points for engaging in conversation with other characters? Have we gotten now to the point where " I can't RP properly because I can't sit in a chair?"
Man get over youselves...
I think it's a pretty small complaint considering all the things in SWTOR that are complaint-WORTHY, seriously. I enjoy the game and I'm still playing, social hubs and working chairs or not, but that doesn't mean I don't have the right to expect some small attention to detail. It's a product that I paid for and AM paying for, so I do have a few very small expectations. I, personally, am not one of the ones that's been just parked on the forums whining and complaining about every aspect of the game, but there's no "get over yourselves" to having some simple desires for game improvement. There's a lot more wrong with this game than it lacking social hubs.
You do have that right, not saying you don't. I also have the right to tell you to get over yourself and not expect a "social hub" object to drop out of the sky and scream "Get in here and communicate with people!". Social hubs are created by players, not developers.
I get the chairs though, as a looooong time SWG player I really do. But don't tell me you can't socialize without it, that's just a bunch of garbage.
My, my, aren't we the king of MMO design... No, social hubs are created by the devs... Where there is a natural place for people to gather vis the auction halls, crafting stations, daily quest givers, special-item vendors, regular vendors, etc.
And every MMO I've ever played has made sure there were strong social hubs. Because the developers understood that if they players can't congregate naturally it will break down social cohesiveness and interaction, leading to the 'empty world' feeling that makes people quit because they're not there for a single-player game.
The Fleet really had nothing... Some PvE planetary token vendors whcih were, by-and-large, a pointless waste of space... Some trainers that would have been better to have just on Coruscant and Droman Kaas... Some LS/DS vendors that should have been with the othe vendors on planets... An ugly, dark envioronment that was unpleasant... A lousy cantina that was always empty...
The issue isn't whether or not there are cantinas. The issue is whether or not there is a point to go into a cantina.
Right now, there is no point, save as a rest zone for when you logout.
Social hubs provide things to do not neccessarily of a combat related nature. There aren't these things in TOR. Ergo, there are no social hubs. Even the fleet isn't a social hub.
Give instruments to play, mini-games to play, then you start creating incentives for people to hang out in these areas. Ergo, it becomes a social hub, not a logout portal.
This is one thing that has bugged the hell out of me since I began playing SWTOR. The Imperial Fleet is one of the dumbest ideas. Why didn't they create centralized cities that are on the end-game worlds? Right now we all go sit in some lame space station and hang out. Why wouldn't they want to create an extravigant city like Stormwind or Orgrimmar in WOW. Instead they have the fleets which are out of the way from everything else. I understand that Dromung Kaas is sort of intended to be the capital but when the fleet exists there is little reason to go there unless we want to respec.
Does anyone else think the Fleets are stupid as hell?
This is bascially one of the points I made in response to the SWTOR email I got requesting feedback.
Clearly, we are not alone in this criticism. I imagine they will do something about this in a future expansion. I think it will be too much to do in a mere patch. Hopefully, it won't take too long, but I think it will require a major re-thinking of the game as it is now.
They were removed in beta and replaced with the fleet. Theres the cantinas for rp'ers i guess.
HAIII JUST1!
HAI! lol
I'm on Sanctum of the Exalted...it's an RP server. Are you still playing? Do you RP? The cantinas are lovely for gathering, actually, but they could really use usable chairs. I go there to dance with people and hang out, but everyone agrees on the chair issue. With all the things that are wrong with the game though....that's a tiny tiny thing that probably won't even be addressed.
Oh well. I'll be honest, I'm only around until TSW and eventually GW2. The endgame of SWTOR leaves a lot to be desired from what I've heard, so I'm just enjoying the story to max level on a commando and sorcerer at the moment.
They were removed in beta and replaced with the fleet. Theres the cantinas for rp'ers i guess.
HAIII JUST1!
HAI! lol
I'm on Sanctum of the Exalted...it's an RP server. Are you still playing? Do you RP? The cantinas are lovely for gathering, actually, but they could really use usable chairs. I go there to dance with people and hang out, but everyone agrees on the chair issue. With all the things that are wrong with the game though....that's a tiny tiny thing that probably won't even be addressed.
Oh well. I'll be honest, I'm only around until TSW and eventually GW2. The endgame of SWTOR leaves a lot to be desired from what I've heard, so I'm just enjoying the story to max level on a commando and sorcerer at the moment.
Aww nuh uh not playing anymore I was on Canderous Ordo and I was the servers main supplier of blue stims! @_@ lol. I had 20 pages filled with 5 stack blue stims at one point! :O
But umm..I RP but I didnt really come across anyone that RP'd in my server >.< I stopped playing since I got pulled to a project! Which I plan on quitting soon or at least getting the rest of my noobie members quit >.< Its like being with a group of.... I dont even know how to explain it They dont know how to do anything, and if they try to do something, I have to fix it and omg -.- My head hurts...
Umm...You should try the imperial agent! those guys supposedly have the best story ever!
Do the rp servers use the cantinas looooots btw~? I havent sawed you in a long time!
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni ( o.o) (")(") **This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
They were removed in beta and replaced with the fleet. Theres the cantinas for rp'ers i guess.
HAIII JUST1!
HAI! lol
I'm on Sanctum of the Exalted...it's an RP server. Are you still playing? Do you RP? The cantinas are lovely for gathering, actually, but they could really use usable chairs. I go there to dance with people and hang out, but everyone agrees on the chair issue. With all the things that are wrong with the game though....that's a tiny tiny thing that probably won't even be addressed.
Oh well. I'll be honest, I'm only around until TSW and eventually GW2. The endgame of SWTOR leaves a lot to be desired from what I've heard, so I'm just enjoying the story to max level on a commando and sorcerer at the moment.
Aww nuh uh not playing anymore I was on Canderous Ordo and I was the servers main supplier of blue stims! @_@ lol. I had 20 pages filled with 5 stack blue stims at one point! :O
But umm..I RP but I didnt really come across anyone that RP'd in my server >.< I stopped playing since I got pulled to a project! Which I plan on quitting soon or at least getting the rest of my noobie members quit >.< Its like being with a group of.... I dont even know how to explain it They dont know how to do anything, and if they try to do something, I have to fix it and omg -.- My head hurts...
Umm...You should try the imperial agent! those guys supposedly have the best story ever!
Do the rp servers use the cantinas looooots btw~? I havent sawed you in a long time!
I don't know about other RP servers, but OURS doesn't use cantinas much at ALL. I see way more people there for the purpose of logging out than socializing. I happen to be in a guild that likes to bar hop, so we use the cantinas, but we're usually alone as a guild or with just a few others. The world is so lonely that I have begun talking to NPCs, myself, you know....just for fun. lol
I think that Bioware intended the fleets to be social hubs, but.....they're not set up in a very inviting manner and don't FEEL like social hubs. Again, like I said, in the SEA of problems that Bioware has with this game, this is probably not even on their LIST of things to address.
I think the Cantinas were supposed to be the social hubs. You got the juke-box and plenty of space. That was one part of fun, going to the different Cantinas on planets to hear the songs. It was what I was resolved to for a lil bit about a day, really..
I don't know about any other real social hubs on every planet that one could name. Other than the orbital stations but then that wouldn't really count. So my answer is Cantinas for sure.
Talk about trying to make your own fun... oh dear.
Where where where, get this, your character is a Dancer or a Musician and they give you valuable buffs and perhaps even Image Designing features that draw you to cantinas and clubs to hang out and chat with them?
In SWG there was a reason Catanas were social areas
Players could be 'enertainers' and you actually leveled by buffing people through your little song and dance. Naturally playes aggregated around them it was a symbiotic relationship. In a sandbox, which is an important point because usually developers who create sandboxes are more intelligent than the idiots who think their video game is a move.
Example : Bioware , think their f****** video game is a movie
edit: I see someone made the point about entertainers before me that's what I get for not reading the thread haha
I think we will analyse the design decissions that went into SWTOR for a long time to come.
I took a break of a month and am now playing it again and still feel odd about it all. There was no feeling of home sickness, the feeling of going back to a familiar place.
I have reached that level (I am an altoholic) where my characters have been send back to starter planets, this is a common trick by MMO's to re-use content but can also help to create a nostalic feeling, a feeling of going back to your roots. This feeling is often exploited, see Coca Cola commercials which often bring back the past.
But with SWTOR, that never really happened. Thanks to the insane travel method and the sameness of the areas, all that travelling does is bore you or enrage you with its time wasting. Lotro could do this as well but at least being send back to the starter areas made you remember fondly of those areas. Being send to Drommund Kaas had no such effect.
Why? Because I KNEW I had to either use my 1 hour fast travel or deal with that nonsense gap in the taxi network. Time and time again. WHY?
The lack of a social hub seems almost by design, it is as if the designers played some MMO's but never quite understood them. The game engine supports working chairs (your own spacecraft) but they are barely used in the game. The idea that some people might just want to sit around for a while never entered the minds of the designers.
The entire game seems geared towards story, propelling you forth along the plot and on to the end game. The story bit is done fairly competently (although it slows down far to much for my taste, it reminds me of games like the Bards Tale where it is all story in the beginning and then the middle and end consists of endless hack&slash levels), but they forgot that sometimes people might want to stop and smell the roses.
Play at peak hours and many planets are empty.
Crafting is partly to blame, when people craft in traditional games, they have to be there and got nothing better to do then chat. Not in this game. The original SWG, before the various overhauls had the downtime of HAM bar wounds, that is where people chatted. It seems that a streamlined game like SWTOR is such a smooth experience, all the fun is taken out of it.
It reminds me of that line from The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy about smart elevators, where the elevators were now so quick that people no longer had to spend time waiting for time, talking to people, falling in love etc etc.
SWTOR is for me the easiest MMO to finish. Single player games are finished... MMO's are supposed to last. I enjoy the game but I am enjoying it as a single player RPG, once I am out of story line, I am out of the game.
I don't think the game will be a disaster as some recent MMO's, I think it will be moderate success, people will leave for their old MMO's where the combat is challenging and the social aspect is guaranteed thanks to their inefficient designs.
SWTOR ain't a bad game but it doesn't seem to have learned anything from previous MMO's. Whether that is size of chat areas (In Lotro, rivendell and its neighbour areas are split up chat areas despite the fact that people questing in those areas might be looking for each other for groups being all of similar level), or the need for a MMO to offer something more then a single player experience.
The game won't die, it will merely peter out as the remaining subscribers don't bring in enough cash to pay for more content.
Comments
mooo
Gears of war
SINGLE player CONSOLE games
I'm guessing that it's because the planets get out-leveled so fast.
lol. I thought it was weird you were having romantic relations with your companions... Kind of like dating a mannequin or something... And that AI program (Holly) one of my 'romance' options (Therin or something like that) had... I'm like, no way is my counsular having a romantic relationship with a guy who's got a thing for a holographic artificial intelligence program...
That's just too weird...
They were removed in beta and replaced with the fleet. Theres the cantinas for rp'ers i guess.
HAIII JUST1!
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni
( o.o)
(")(")
**This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
My, my, aren't we the king of MMO design... No, social hubs are created by the devs... Where there is a natural place for people to gather vis the auction halls, crafting stations, daily quest givers, special-item vendors, regular vendors, etc.
And every MMO I've ever played has made sure there were strong social hubs. Because the developers understood that if they players can't congregate naturally it will break down social cohesiveness and interaction, leading to the 'empty world' feeling that makes people quit because they're not there for a single-player game.
The Fleet really had nothing... Some PvE planetary token vendors whcih were, by-and-large, a pointless waste of space... Some trainers that would have been better to have just on Coruscant and Droman Kaas... Some LS/DS vendors that should have been with the othe vendors on planets... An ugly, dark envioronment that was unpleasant... A lousy cantina that was always empty...
He did more than you. He was funny. Any word I use to describe YOU would get me modded...
The issue isn't whether or not there are cantinas. The issue is whether or not there is a point to go into a cantina.
Right now, there is no point, save as a rest zone for when you logout.
Social hubs provide things to do not neccessarily of a combat related nature. There aren't these things in TOR. Ergo, there are no social hubs. Even the fleet isn't a social hub.
Give instruments to play, mini-games to play, then you start creating incentives for people to hang out in these areas. Ergo, it becomes a social hub, not a logout portal.
This is bascially one of the points I made in response to the SWTOR email I got requesting feedback.
Clearly, we are not alone in this criticism. I imagine they will do something about this in a future expansion. I think it will be too much to do in a mere patch. Hopefully, it won't take too long, but I think it will require a major re-thinking of the game as it is now.
HAI! lol
I'm on Sanctum of the Exalted...it's an RP server. Are you still playing? Do you RP? The cantinas are lovely for gathering, actually, but they could really use usable chairs. I go there to dance with people and hang out, but everyone agrees on the chair issue. With all the things that are wrong with the game though....that's a tiny tiny thing that probably won't even be addressed.
Oh well. I'll be honest, I'm only around until TSW and eventually GW2. The endgame of SWTOR leaves a lot to be desired from what I've heard, so I'm just enjoying the story to max level on a commando and sorcerer at the moment.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Aww nuh uh not playing anymore
I was on Canderous Ordo and I was the servers main supplier of blue stims! @_@ lol. I had 20 pages filled with 5 stack blue stims at one point! :O
But umm..I RP but I didnt really come across anyone that RP'd in my server >.< I stopped playing since I got pulled to a project!
Which I plan on quitting soon or at least getting the rest of my noobie members quit >.< Its like being with a group of.... I dont even know how to explain it 
They dont know how to do anything, and if they try to do something, I have to fix it and omg -.- My head hurts...
Umm...You should try the imperial agent! those guys supposedly have the best story ever!
Do the rp servers use the cantinas looooots btw~?
I havent sawed you in a long time!
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni
( o.o)
(")(")
**This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
I don't know about other RP servers, but OURS doesn't use cantinas much at ALL. I see way more people there for the purpose of logging out than socializing. I happen to be in a guild that likes to bar hop, so we use the cantinas, but we're usually alone as a guild or with just a few others. The world is so lonely that I have begun talking to NPCs, myself, you know....just for fun. lol
I think that Bioware intended the fleets to be social hubs, but.....they're not set up in a very inviting manner and don't FEEL like social hubs. Again, like I said, in the SEA of problems that Bioware has with this game, this is probably not even on their LIST of things to address.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Talk about trying to make your own fun... oh dear.
Maybe if this game had an ENTERTAINER PROFESSION.
Where where where, get this, your character is a Dancer or a Musician and they give you valuable buffs and perhaps even Image Designing features that draw you to cantinas and clubs to hang out and chat with them?
Lol, what a radical concept. I know.
Its a shame nobody will ever do it.
In SWG there was a reason Catanas were social areas
Players could be 'enertainers' and you actually leveled by buffing people through your little song and dance. Naturally playes aggregated around them it was a symbiotic relationship. In a sandbox, which is an important point because usually developers who create sandboxes are more intelligent than the idiots who think their video game is a move.
Example : Bioware , think their f****** video game is a movie
edit: I see someone made the point about entertainers before me
that's what I get for not reading the thread haha
I think we will analyse the design decissions that went into SWTOR for a long time to come.
I took a break of a month and am now playing it again and still feel odd about it all. There was no feeling of home sickness, the feeling of going back to a familiar place.
I have reached that level (I am an altoholic) where my characters have been send back to starter planets, this is a common trick by MMO's to re-use content but can also help to create a nostalic feeling, a feeling of going back to your roots. This feeling is often exploited, see Coca Cola commercials which often bring back the past.
But with SWTOR, that never really happened. Thanks to the insane travel method and the sameness of the areas, all that travelling does is bore you or enrage you with its time wasting. Lotro could do this as well but at least being send back to the starter areas made you remember fondly of those areas. Being send to Drommund Kaas had no such effect.
Why? Because I KNEW I had to either use my 1 hour fast travel or deal with that nonsense gap in the taxi network. Time and time again. WHY?
The lack of a social hub seems almost by design, it is as if the designers played some MMO's but never quite understood them. The game engine supports working chairs (your own spacecraft) but they are barely used in the game. The idea that some people might just want to sit around for a while never entered the minds of the designers.
The entire game seems geared towards story, propelling you forth along the plot and on to the end game. The story bit is done fairly competently (although it slows down far to much for my taste, it reminds me of games like the Bards Tale where it is all story in the beginning and then the middle and end consists of endless hack&slash levels), but they forgot that sometimes people might want to stop and smell the roses.
Play at peak hours and many planets are empty.
Crafting is partly to blame, when people craft in traditional games, they have to be there and got nothing better to do then chat. Not in this game. The original SWG, before the various overhauls had the downtime of HAM bar wounds, that is where people chatted. It seems that a streamlined game like SWTOR is such a smooth experience, all the fun is taken out of it.
It reminds me of that line from The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy about smart elevators, where the elevators were now so quick that people no longer had to spend time waiting for time, talking to people, falling in love etc etc.
SWTOR is for me the easiest MMO to finish. Single player games are finished... MMO's are supposed to last. I enjoy the game but I am enjoying it as a single player RPG, once I am out of story line, I am out of the game.
I don't think the game will be a disaster as some recent MMO's, I think it will be moderate success, people will leave for their old MMO's where the combat is challenging and the social aspect is guaranteed thanks to their inefficient designs.
SWTOR ain't a bad game but it doesn't seem to have learned anything from previous MMO's. Whether that is size of chat areas (In Lotro, rivendell and its neighbour areas are split up chat areas despite the fact that people questing in those areas might be looking for each other for groups being all of similar level), or the need for a MMO to offer something more then a single player experience.
The game won't die, it will merely peter out as the remaining subscribers don't bring in enough cash to pay for more content.