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Bioware acknowledges Ilum was a mistake, starts to phase out planet completely.

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Comments

  • SouldrainerSouldrainer Elmer, NJPosts: 1,857Member

    Originally posted by MortisRex

    Originally posted by Souldrainer

    Originally posted by MortisRex

    Originally posted by Souldrainer

    Originally posted by Mad+Dog

    Well theres one thing I do know, any one whos loves PVP will be saying good by Swtor and hello GW2.

     This might be one of the least informed posts on hereYou are saying people are going to quit SWTOR and sit around waiting for a few months for GW2?  Over a few minor PVP changes?  Yeah, right.  I will say this much, GW2 is going to have far more bugs and issues than any fanboy could ever anticipate.  Right now, that game is just a list of features, and nothing more. 

    So, SWTOR from 2011 with fully working features in the game, or GW2 which comes after the halfway mark in 2012 and has untold bugs and issues?  Hmm...

    LOL, irony thy name is Souldrainer.

     Are you going to make an actual statement, or just point a finger and call it a day?

    Sorry, thought you would be able to figure out what I was getting at by the highlighting. I'll put it real simple for you since you don't seem to understand. You imply you are in a position to judge who is informed, then you go on about unrealistic fanboys, then you claim SWTOR is "fully working". Bioware themselves refute your assertions. They admit the poorly implemented features like the auction house, poor grouping tools, a lack of guild tools, and the poor implementation of Ilum. I'm not sure how much simpler you need this to be put to understand.

     I understood you fully.  I just wanted you to be more clear so I could more easily point out the flaws in what you said.  Your interpretation of my thought process is hilarious though.  Why not read what I said and interpret as written instead of adding your own interpretation though?

    GW2 is not a game right now.  GW2 is a list of features with a launch date, and nothing more.  To put it another way,:

    Number of fully working and launched features in SWTOR:  Hundreds.

    Number of fully working and launched features in GW2:  ZERO.

    So yeah, people who compare existing games with ones that are not out get zero credit from me, because it is just hype.  It's like showing up to someone else's wedding and telling them how awesome yours will be because you have all these plans, but no significant other to speak of.  Apples to apples.   Compare existing, launched, games to others that exist and have launched, or you can never be taken seriously.

    Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.

  • iceman00iceman00 Westland, MIPosts: 1,363Member

    There really isn't a positive way to spin this.  Quitting like a Yugo up a hill is never something to celebrate.

    But on the other hand, there were no good options here.  Bioware has demonstrated itself as utterly unable to (right now at least) make a compelling pvp system.   The "fixes" they introduced only made it worse.

    And yeah, like others said, I think this really shows how weak the modified hero engine is.  They can't handle mass pvp.  No matter how many fixes they implemented on Ilum, They would run into that roadblock of the engine.

  • Zlayer77Zlayer77 dPosts: 826Member

    Originally posted by Souldrainer

    Originally posted by MortisRex


    Originally posted by Souldrainer


    Originally posted by MortisRex


    Originally posted by Souldrainer


    Originally posted by Mad+Dog

    Well theres one thing I do know, any one whos loves PVP will be saying good by Swtor and hello GW2.

     This might be one of the least informed posts on hereYou are saying people are going to quit SWTOR and sit around waiting for a few months for GW2?  Over a few minor PVP changes?  Yeah, right.  I will say this much, GW2 is going to have far more bugs and issues than any fanboy could ever anticipate.  Right now, that game is just a list of features, and nothing more. 

    So, SWTOR from 2011 with fully working features in the game, or GW2 which comes after the halfway mark in 2012 and has untold bugs and issues?  Hmm...

    LOL, irony thy name is Souldrainer.

     Are you going to make an actual statement, or just point a finger and call it a day?

    Sorry, thought you would be able to figure out what I was getting at by the highlighting. I'll put it real simple for you since you don't seem to understand. You imply you are in a position to judge who is informed, then you go on about unrealistic fanboys, then you claim SWTOR is "fully working". Bioware themselves refute your assertions. They admit the poorly implemented features like the auction house, poor grouping tools, a lack of guild tools, and the poor implementation of Ilum. I'm not sure how much simpler you need this to be put to understand.

     I understood you fully.  I just wanted you to be more clear so I could more easily point out the flaws in what you said.  Your interpretation of my thought process is hilarious though.  Why not read what I said and interpret as written instead of adding your own interpretation though?

    GW2 is not a game right now.  GW2 is a list of features with a launch date, and nothing more.  To put it another way,:

    Number of fully working features in SWTOR:  Hundreds.

    Number of fully working features in GW2:  ZERO.

    So yeah, people who compare existing games with ones that are not out get zero credit from me, because it is just hype.  It's like showing up to someone else's wedding and telling them how awesome yours will be because you have all these plans, but no significant other to speak of.  Apples to apples.   Compare existing, launched, games to others that exist and have launched, or you can never be taken seriously.

    I think you need to steep outside boys.. you are really of topic here... And your personal little banter dosent really expand on the topic..

  • SouldrainerSouldrainer Elmer, NJPosts: 1,857Member

    Originally posted by Zlayer77

    Originally posted by Souldrainer

    Originally posted by MortisRex

    Originally posted by Souldrainer

    Originally posted by MortisRex

    Originally posted by Souldrainer

    Originally posted by Mad+Dog

    Well theres one thing I do know, any one whos loves PVP will be saying good by Swtor and hello GW2.

     This might be one of the least informed posts on hereYou are saying people are going to quit SWTOR and sit around waiting for a few months for GW2?  Over a few minor PVP changes?  Yeah, right.  I will say this much, GW2 is going to have far more bugs and issues than any fanboy could ever anticipate.  Right now, that game is just a list of features, and nothing more. 

    So, SWTOR from 2011 with fully working features in the game, or GW2 which comes after the halfway mark in 2012 and has untold bugs and issues?  Hmm...

    LOL, irony thy name is Souldrainer.

     Are you going to make an actual statement, or just point a finger and call it a day?

    Sorry, thought you would be able to figure out what I was getting at by the highlighting. I'll put it real simple for you since you don't seem to understand. You imply you are in a position to judge who is informed, then you go on about unrealistic fanboys, then you claim SWTOR is "fully working". Bioware themselves refute your assertions. They admit the poorly implemented features like the auction house, poor grouping tools, a lack of guild tools, and the poor implementation of Ilum. I'm not sure how much simpler you need this to be put to understand.

     I understood you fully.  I just wanted you to be more clear so I could more easily point out the flaws in what you said.  Your interpretation of my thought process is hilarious though.  Why not read what I said and interpret as written instead of adding your own interpretation though?

    GW2 is not a game right now.  GW2 is a list of features with a launch date, and nothing more.  To put it another way,:

    Number of fully working features in SWTOR:  Hundreds.

    Number of fully working features in GW2:  ZERO.

    So yeah, people who compare existing games with ones that are not out get zero credit from me, because it is just hype.  It's like showing up to someone else's wedding and telling them how awesome yours will be because you have all these plans, but no significant other to speak of.  Apples to apples.   Compare existing, launched, games to others that exist and have launched, or you can never be taken seriously.

    I think you need to steep outside boys.. you are really of topic here... And your personal little banter dosent really expand on the topic..

     Just pointing out the gaping flaws in comparing real games to GW2...

    Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.

  • KholeKhole Irmo, SCPosts: 136Member Common

    Originally posted by iceman00

    There really isn't a positive way to spin this.  Quitting like a Yugo up a hill is never something to celebrate.

    But on the other hand, there were no good options here.  Bioware has demonstrated itself as utterly unable to (right now at least) make a compelling pvp system.   The "fixes" they introduced only made it worse.

    And yeah, like others said, I think this really shows how weak the modified hero engine is.  They can't handle mass pvp.  No matter how many fixes they implemented on Ilum, They would run into that roadblock of the engine.

    To be fair bioware really hasn't made anything compelling in this game. 

  • RhoklawRhoklaw Ft. Bliss, TXPosts: 3,498Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Souldrainer

    Originally posted by MortisRex


    Originally posted by Souldrainer


    Originally posted by MortisRex


    Originally posted by Souldrainer


    Originally posted by Mad+Dog

    Well theres one thing I do know, any one whos loves PVP will be saying good by Swtor and hello GW2.

     This might be one of the least informed posts on hereYou are saying people are going to quit SWTOR and sit around waiting for a few months for GW2?  Over a few minor PVP changes?  Yeah, right.  I will say this much, GW2 is going to have far more bugs and issues than any fanboy could ever anticipate.  Right now, that game is just a list of features, and nothing more. 

    So, SWTOR from 2011 with fully working features in the game, or GW2 which comes after the halfway mark in 2012 and has untold bugs and issues?  Hmm...

    LOL, irony thy name is Souldrainer.

     Are you going to make an actual statement, or just point a finger and call it a day?

    Sorry, thought you would be able to figure out what I was getting at by the highlighting. I'll put it real simple for you since you don't seem to understand. You imply you are in a position to judge who is informed, then you go on about unrealistic fanboys, then you claim SWTOR is "fully working". Bioware themselves refute your assertions. They admit the poorly implemented features like the auction house, poor grouping tools, a lack of guild tools, and the poor implementation of Ilum. I'm not sure how much simpler you need this to be put to understand.

     I understood you fully.  I just wanted you to be more clear so I could more easily point out the flaws in what you said.  Your interpretation of my thought process is hilarious though.  Why not read what I said and interpret as written instead of adding your own interpretation though?

    GW2 is not a game right now.  GW2 is a list of features with a launch date, and nothing more.  To put it another way,:

    Number of fully working and launched features in SWTOR:  Hundreds.

    Number of fully working and launched features in GW2:  ZERO.

    So yeah, people who compare existing games with ones that are not out get zero credit from me, because it is just hype.  It's like showing up to someone else's wedding and telling them how awesome yours will be because you have all these plans, but no significant other to speak of.  Apples to apples.   Compare existing, launched, games to others that exist and have launched, or you can never be taken seriously.

    Going out on a limb here, but I'm pretty sure GW2 will surpass SWTOR this year in popularity. Don't get mad, cause I bought 2 copies of SWTOR and enjoyed it immensly until I reached 50.

    image

  • Zlayer77Zlayer77 dPosts: 826Member

    Originally posted by iceman00

    There really isn't a positive way to spin this.  Quitting like a Yugo up a hill is never something to celebrate.

    But on the other hand, there were no good options here.  Bioware has demonstrated itself as utterly unable to (right now at least) make a compelling pvp system.   The "fixes" they introduced only made it worse.

    And yeah, like others said, I think this really shows how weak the modified hero engine is.  They can't handle mass pvp.  No matter how many fixes they implemented on Ilum, They would run into that roadblock of the engine.

    Yes my guess is that the ghost town that Ilum will become will not be replaced by much of anything. I think they are refocusing on trying to Release more Bgs instead and fixing more endgame content to hold onto the playerbase they got. They dont have much time either so they really need to abandon things they will not get to work in a short Timeframe. And focus all efforts on fixing things that they can actually fix..

    That is what I would do if I where them... Fixing the things they can will maybe bring a few customers back and get them a better reputation. And that is what they really need now. Some good player press....

  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn belleville, ILPosts: 1,713Member Uncommon

    I have no indication one way or another on whether or not they are going to replace Ilum, but as a pure guess, I would side with the faction that thinks that there will be a replacement.

     

    I think that they know there is a large group of players that like PvP, so they are going to try to scratch that itch.

     

    Don't blast me by asking me sources, and stats, and videos, and hidden recordings about this.  its just a pure guess.

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • AirwrenAirwren Normal, ILPosts: 646Member

    Originally posted by Garvon3

    300 million dollars and 4 years of development and testing and it took them until NOW to realize it? Just goes to show you, singleplayer game devs should NOT attempt to make MMOs.

    They also shouldn't ask game developers that took a very popular IP and then crafted a shitty failure MMO to then come and work on their new MMO, and sit back and watch them implement the same broken features into the new game.  Bravo Bioware, bravo.

  • WorstluckWorstluck the valley, CAPosts: 1,269Member

    Originally posted by mgilbrtsn

    I have no indication one way or another on whether or not they are going to replace Ilum, but as a pure guess, I would side with the faction that thinks that there will be a replacement.

     

    I think that they know there is a large group of players that like PvP, so they are going to try to scratch that itch.

     

    Don't blast me by asking me sources, and stats, and videos, and hidden recordings about this.  its just a pure guess.

     

    I think you are right.  It will be replaced with something.  I think it will some kind of instanced area, where they can control the number of people in the area.  They should have just copied Wintergrasp from WoW; maybe they will introduce something like that. 

    image

  • Zlayer77Zlayer77 dPosts: 826Member

    Originally posted by mgilbrtsn

    I have no indication one way or another on whether or not they are going to replace Ilum, but as a pure guess, I would side with the faction that thinks that there will be a replacement.

     

    I think that they know there is a large group of players that like PvP, so they are going to try to scratch that itch.

     

    Don't blast me by asking me sources, and stats, and videos, and hidden recordings about this.  its just a pure guess.

    But they really dont have time now. They need to fix more important things. Getting the Rewards in Warzones instead is a band-aid. For when they get time to get around trying to fix the open world PvP.

    And If it gets fixed is really a mather of how successfull the game becomes. If people start to unsubscribe even more A fix or remake of the Ilum open world pvp is not going to be high on the list of fixes. Most of the people that wanted the open world PvP will have migrated to other games that might be doing it better. And I know 2 games that will release with Open world Fetures. I played one of them and it was really fun. Trying to get customers back from those games is just to much of gamble and money and effort should be placed into something better. That is how I would go about it....

    By the time they get a whole new zone released, players that wanted it will allready be heavly invested into other games. And wont be coming back so easy..

  • bleyzwunbleyzwun West Orange, NJPosts: 1,100Member Common

    Originally posted by Zlayer77

    Originally posted by iceman00

    There really isn't a positive way to spin this.  Quitting like a Yugo up a hill is never something to celebrate.

    But on the other hand, there were no good options here.  Bioware has demonstrated itself as utterly unable to (right now at least) make a compelling pvp system.   The "fixes" they introduced only made it worse.

    And yeah, like others said, I think this really shows how weak the modified hero engine is.  They can't handle mass pvp.  No matter how many fixes they implemented on Ilum, They would run into that roadblock of the engine.

    Yes my guess is that the ghost town that Ilum will become will not be replaced by much of anything. I think they are refocusing on trying to Release more Bgs instead and fixing more endgame content to hold onto the playerbase they got. They dont have much time either so they really need to abandon things they will not get to work in a short Timeframe. And focus all efforts on fixing things that they can actually fix..

    That is what I would do if I where them... Fixing the things they can will maybe bring a few customers back and get them a better reputation. And that is what they really need now. Some good player press....

    You know, I have a feeling all of this is more of an EA issue than BW. If anybody remembers how WAR went down, they took forever to address issues that needed to be fixed quickly.  It also was rushed, and SWTOR feels like it was rushed as well.  I'm not sure what it is, but I guess EA cuts back on costs after the game is released or something.  

    I'm curious how they will handle this game.  As of right now, I will never buy another EA MMO.  If they can save this game, then maybe I will give them another shot.  It just seems like they are moving at a snails pace to fix things.  

  • iceman00iceman00 Westland, MIPosts: 1,363Member

    Originally posted by ShakyMo

    I saw a post up here blaming hero engine (i can't quote back on my phone at work)



    My guild is beating dominus which uses same engine, (me I'm beating a game that releases sooner but) from what I hear from friends dominus doesn't grind to a halt with like 50 players on screen.



    But its always funny seeing bioware fanbois blaming hero and/or mythic, when the fault lies with EA RPG (new bioware)

    Actually a lot of us have been critical of the "hero" engine, but I almost have to use it in quotes.  Bioware made some modifications of it pretty extensively.  So I always say the modified Hero engine, because its a bit more truthful.

  • TasarakTasarak redmond, WAPosts: 43Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by bleyzwun

    Originally posted by Zlayer77


    Originally posted by iceman00

    There really isn't a positive way to spin this.  Quitting like a Yugo up a hill is never something to celebrate.

    But on the other hand, there were no good options here.  Bioware has demonstrated itself as utterly unable to (right now at least) make a compelling pvp system.   The "fixes" they introduced only made it worse.

    And yeah, like others said, I think this really shows how weak the modified hero engine is.  They can't handle mass pvp.  No matter how many fixes they implemented on Ilum, They would run into that roadblock of the engine.

    Yes my guess is that the ghost town that Ilum will become will not be replaced by much of anything. I think they are refocusing on trying to Release more Bgs instead and fixing more endgame content to hold onto the playerbase they got. They dont have much time either so they really need to abandon things they will not get to work in a short Timeframe. And focus all efforts on fixing things that they can actually fix..

    That is what I would do if I where them... Fixing the things they can will maybe bring a few customers back and get them a better reputation. And that is what they really need now. Some good player press....

    You know, I have a feeling all of this is more of an EA issue than BW. If anybody remembers how WAR went down, they took forever to address issues that needed to be fixed quickly.  It also was rushed, and SWTOR feels like it was rushed as well.  I'm not sure what it is, but I guess EA cuts back on costs after the game is released or something.  

    I'm curious how they will handle this game.  As of right now, I will never buy another EA MMO.  If they can save this game, then maybe I will give them another shot.  It just seems like they are moving at a snails pace to fix things.  



    It is most definately more of an EA issue, but I hold Bioware accountable also.  I have cancelled my subscription because thier design philosphy is not one I choose to continue to pay for.   They realeased the game early with many bugs too numerous  to list & continue to be a problem.  Ilum was a colossus failure but they don't know how to fix it.  The constant crashing, memory leaks were too much.  Each patch that they claimed " fixed " issues, only turned out to not fix issues within Ilum & Warzone's etc.  You did not need a guild or group in this game to do anything. You felt very disconnected within the universe.  Far too much instancing & load times kept getting worse with each patch.

     I think some of us pvp'ers had some hope that there would be some decent pvp down the road, but Bioware/EA  strung us along the entire time.   This game is for people who really want Carebear PVP to begin with.  Too many WOW pver's on PVP servers thinking what they have is PVP. ( Huttball ) 

    I'm out. back to DAOC.....

  • Zlayer77Zlayer77 dPosts: 826Member

    Originally posted by Tasarak

    Originally posted by bleyzwun


    Originally posted by Zlayer77


    Originally posted by iceman00

    There really isn't a positive way to spin this.  Quitting like a Yugo up a hill is never something to celebrate.

    But on the other hand, there were no good options here.  Bioware has demonstrated itself as utterly unable to (right now at least) make a compelling pvp system.   The "fixes" they introduced only made it worse.

    And yeah, like others said, I think this really shows how weak the modified hero engine is.  They can't handle mass pvp.  No matter how many fixes they implemented on Ilum, They would run into that roadblock of the engine.

    Yes my guess is that the ghost town that Ilum will become will not be replaced by much of anything. I think they are refocusing on trying to Release more Bgs instead and fixing more endgame content to hold onto the playerbase they got. They dont have much time either so they really need to abandon things they will not get to work in a short Timeframe. And focus all efforts on fixing things that they can actually fix..

    That is what I would do if I where them... Fixing the things they can will maybe bring a few customers back and get them a better reputation. And that is what they really need now. Some good player press....

    You know, I have a feeling all of this is more of an EA issue than BW. If anybody remembers how WAR went down, they took forever to address issues that needed to be fixed quickly.  It also was rushed, and SWTOR feels like it was rushed as well.  I'm not sure what it is, but I guess EA cuts back on costs after the game is released or something.  

    I'm curious how they will handle this game.  As of right now, I will never buy another EA MMO.  If they can save this game, then maybe I will give them another shot.  It just seems like they are moving at a snails pace to fix things.  



    It is most definately more of an EA issue, but I hold Bioware accountable also.  I have cancelled my subscription because thier design philosphy is not one I choose to continue to pay for.   They realeased the game early with many bugs too numerous  to list & continue to be a problem.  Ilum was a colossus failure but they don't know how to fix it.  The constant crashing, memory leaks were too much.  Each patch that they claimed " fixed " issues, only turned out to not fix issues within Ilum & Warzone's etc.  You did not need a guild or group in this game to do anything. You felt very disconnected within the universe.  Far too much instancing & load times kept getting worse with each patch.

     I think some of us pvp'ers had some hope that there would be some decent pvp down the road, but Bioware/EA  strung us along the entire time.   This game is for people who really want Carebear PVP to begin with.  Too many WOW pver's on PVP servers thinking what they have is PVP. ( Huttball ) 

    I'm out. back to DAOC.....

    Being out and about roaming freely on the forums I ran across this in the Pub http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/342559/Well-worth-the-read.html ... the Wolfshead article  Is a really good READ i must say.. Its a bit off Topic but it hits the nail on everything I feel the Industry is doing wrong these days..

    Here is a cut out.. from the last parts...

    Read full article http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/swtors-300-million-virtual-bridge-to-nowhere/#more-6023

    No longer are MMOs are created with the expectation that anything can happen. Those days are long past. If players were left to forge their own destinies it would result in chaos and conflict which would be unacceptable to the story obsessed new breed of video game designer who insists that every aspect of what a player does should be tightly controlled and scripted. You see, you as a player can’t be trusted.

    Instead MMOs have become virtual sausage factories where the spectator-like player sits back and enjoys the ride. Game design has been reduced to process of crafting every moment of the player experience — nothing is left to chance — a philosophy that would make amusement park tycoon Walt Disney proud.

    If anything, Bioware’s SWTOR has made me pause to reflect about the current state of virtual MMOs and the unfortunate suicidal direction they are heading in — a virtual bridge to nowhere.

  • IsawaIsawa Middle 0 Nowhere, ORPosts: 1,051Member

    Originally posted by Zlayer77

    Originally posted by hikaru77

    Is just a temporary solution till the 1.2 update, wich will be like a new game.  

    The Miracle patch... when have any Update made to a game made into into "like  a new game?" It has never happend in MMO history. Hoping for the Miracle patch is setting yourself up for disappointment. They cant morph this game into something new. They can only try and patch the holes that are leaking...

    I'm just saying dont put your hopes in some Miracle patch. That someday will come.. it's like the credence song....

    "Well, I'm here to tell you now each and ev'ry mother's son

    You better learn it fast; you better learn it young,

    'Cause, "Someday" Never Comes."

    Umm there has been such an update(s) for a particular game that was recently shut down. For many, the update was not positive, but yes it did make it feel "like a new game", far from a miracle though...

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member

    Originally posted by Zlayer77

     

    Being out and about roaming freely on the forums I ran across this in the Pub http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/342559/Well-worth-the-read.html ... the Wolfshead article  Is a really good READ i must say.. Its a bit off Topic but it hits the nail on everything I feel the Industry is doing wrong these days..

    Here is a cut out.. from the last parts...

    Read full article http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/swtors-300-million-virtual-bridge-to-nowhere/#more-6023

    No longer are MMOs are created with the expectation that anything can happen. Those days are long past. If players were left to forge their own destinies it would result in chaos and conflict which would be unacceptable to the story obsessed new breed of video game designer who insists that every aspect of what a player does should be tightly controlled and scripted. You see, you as a player can’t be trusted.

    Instead MMOs have become virtual sausage factories where the spectator-like player sits back and enjoys the ride. Game design has been reduced to process of crafting every moment of the player experience — nothing is left to chance — a philosophy that would make amusement park tycoon Walt Disney proud.

    If anything, Bioware’s SWTOR has made me pause to reflect about the current state of virtual MMOs and the unfortunate suicidal direction they are heading in — a virtual bridge to nowhere.

    this is why I really hope someone picks up Archage as soon as possible after it's release in korea...  something needs to break this cycle

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • xenogiasxenogias warsaw, INPosts: 1,926Member

    *inserts obligatory Next they should admit SWTOR itself was a mistake comment*

    Now to the topic. Glad they admitted it. While the game isnt for me Ilum really was a bad, bad idea.

  • xenogiasxenogias warsaw, INPosts: 1,926Member

    Originally posted by eluldor

    Originally posted by Zlayer77


    Originally posted by hikaru77

    Is just a temporary solution till the 1.2 update, wich will be like a new game.  

    The Miracle patch... when have any Update made to a game made into into "like  a new game?" It has never happend in MMO history. Hoping for the Miracle patch is setting yourself up for disappointment. They cant morph this game into something new. They can only try and patch the holes that are leaking...

    I'm just saying dont put your hopes in some Miracle patch. That someday will come.. it's like the credence song....

    "Well, I'm here to tell you now each and ev'ry mother's son

    You better learn it fast; you better learn it young,

    'Cause, "Someday" Never Comes."

    Umm there has been such an update(s) for a particular game that was recently shut down. For many, the update was not positive, but yes it did make it feel "like a new game", far from a miracle though...

    Patches like they are talking about in 1.2 are generally not good at all. First a patch like that admits they did it wrong the first time. Secondly you would really struggle to find a patch like that, that people felt was a positive change. Concider alot of people wont go back to the game no matter what. In alot of cases that means the current playerbase enjoys things the way they are in general. In big sweeping patches that change major things its going to change it so much that current people playing get pissed off and leave.

    I hope 1.2 is done well and makes the game more fun for thoes that do enjoy it.  However over the short game industry history generally changing the way a game works or is played is a bad thing. Not just for MMO's but how many times have we seen games with the same name and a diffrent number attached to it fail because the gameplay was diffrent from the origional that was so much fun?

  • MothanosMothanos ArnhemPosts: 1,860Member Uncommon

    Bioware had the chance to create one hell of a mmo.

    Starwars is so damn cool and the features they could add where almost limitless.

     

    instead we got a weakly rescricted mmo, with alot of anoying things alot of bugs and when you ding max level, fail pvp.

    They had a chance but they blowed it completely, and now they are already thinking about making a Mass Effect mmo ?

    If they already think about it that i bet they have already begun with it and less contend will be created just like the WOW dev's who left ship to work on Titan.

    All speculations, but SWTOR.....failed me.

  • TasarakTasarak redmond, WAPosts: 43Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Zlayer77

    Originally posted by Tasarak


    Originally posted by bleyzwun


    Originally posted by Zlayer77


    Originally posted by iceman00

    There really isn't a positive way to spin this.  Quitting like a Yugo up a hill is never something to celebrate.

    But on the other hand, there were no good options here.  Bioware has demonstrated itself as utterly unable to (right now at least) make a compelling pvp system.   The "fixes" they introduced only made it worse.

    And yeah, like others said, I think this really shows how weak the modified hero engine is.  They can't handle mass pvp.  No matter how many fixes they implemented on Ilum, They would run into that roadblock of the engine.

    Yes my guess is that the ghost town that Ilum will become will not be replaced by much of anything. I think they are refocusing on trying to Release more Bgs instead and fixing more endgame content to hold onto the playerbase they got. They dont have much time either so they really need to abandon things they will not get to work in a short Timeframe. And focus all efforts on fixing things that they can actually fix..

    That is what I would do if I where them... Fixing the things they can will maybe bring a few customers back and get them a better reputation. And that is what they really need now. Some good player press....

    You know, I have a feeling all of this is more of an EA issue than BW. If anybody remembers how WAR went down, they took forever to address issues that needed to be fixed quickly.  It also was rushed, and SWTOR feels like it was rushed as well.  I'm not sure what it is, but I guess EA cuts back on costs after the game is released or something.  

    I'm curious how they will handle this game.  As of right now, I will never buy another EA MMO.  If they can save this game, then maybe I will give them another shot.  It just seems like they are moving at a snails pace to fix things.  



    It is most definately more of an EA issue, but I hold Bioware accountable also.  I have cancelled my subscription because thier design philosphy is not one I choose to continue to pay for.   They realeased the game early with many bugs too numerous  to list & continue to be a problem.  Ilum was a colossus failure but they don't know how to fix it.  The constant crashing, memory leaks were too much.  Each patch that they claimed " fixed " issues, only turned out to not fix issues within Ilum & Warzone's etc.  You did not need a guild or group in this game to do anything. You felt very disconnected within the universe.  Far too much instancing & load times kept getting worse with each patch.

     I think some of us pvp'ers had some hope that there would be some decent pvp down the road, but Bioware/EA  strung us along the entire time.   This game is for people who really want Carebear PVP to begin with.  Too many WOW pver's on PVP servers thinking what they have is PVP. ( Huttball ) 

    I'm out. back to DAOC.....

    Being out and about roaming freely on the forums I ran across this in the Pub http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/342559/Well-worth-the-read.html ... the Wolfshead article  Is a really good READ i must say.. Its a bit off Topic but it hits the nail on everything I feel the Industry is doing wrong these days..

    Here is a cut out.. from the last parts...

    Read full article http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/swtors-300-million-virtual-bridge-to-nowhere/#more-6023

    No longer are MMOs are created with the expectation that anything can happen. Those days are long past. If players were left to forge their own destinies it would result in chaos and conflict which would be unacceptable to the story obsessed new breed of video game designer who insists that every aspect of what a player does should be tightly controlled and scripted. You see, you as a player can’t be trusted.

    Instead MMOs have become virtual sausage factories where the spectator-like player sits back and enjoys the ride. Game design has been reduced to process of crafting every moment of the player experience — nothing is left to chance — a philosophy that would make amusement park tycoon Walt Disney proud.

    If anything, Bioware’s SWTOR has made me pause to reflect about the current state of virtual MMOs and the unfortunate suicidal direction they are heading in — a virtual bridge to nowhere.



    Thanks for the link.  Bascially shares the same viewpoints as I do with the MMO industry.  He only played to 20 which does not give you experience to judge a game in it's entirety imo. But intial impressions can be deterered becuase the game is highly polished at those levels.  I wanted to play all the way through to make my own decision.  I completed all the fp's, every quest on all planets (empire side) reached WarHero,(Rank 70 Valor) so I definately gave SWTOR a chance.

  • iceman00iceman00 Westland, MIPosts: 1,363Member

    Originally posted by Mothanos

    Bioware had the chance to create one hell of a mmo.

    Starwars is so damn cool and the features they could add where almost limitless.

     

    instead we got a weakly rescricted mmo, with alot of anoying things alot of bugs and when you ding max level, fail pvp.

    They had a chance but they blowed it completely, and now they are already thinking about making a Mass Effect mmo ?

    If they already think about it that i bet they have already begun with it and less contend will be created just like the WOW dev's who left ship to work on Titan.

    All speculations, but SWTOR.....failed me.

    They got hit with a question on it, and for the most part, shot it down.

    I wouldn't say they are "thinking" about it.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member

    Originally posted by Worstluck 

    People also seem to forget that WoW came out over seven years ago.  It had maybe 4 or 5 other MMO's to compete with, yet when it came out it had some nice features the other games didn't have.

     

    People expect NEW games to have similar features or even better ones when they are released, especially when the whole premise of your game is so similar to others.  Do quests, go through 50 levels, do instances, and raid (that is some groun-breaking stuff right there that TOR has!).  Ok there is your game, how come it still doesn't have some of the  features that older games have?  So I should wait for them to inplement them?  Why not just go back to another game, that has more stuff for me to do? 

    Exactly. Been saying this for some time now and frankly BW are far from the only ones that make this mistake. It is not 2004 anymore. The landscape and the players' expectations have changed. Until they get this notion through their thick, stubborn skulls they are going to see the same thing happen in their games time and time again.

    I don't know what it is going to take because we see the same patterns over and over again. I have no idea how they cannot see this themselves. It is a shame because they have no one to blame for how poor their retention rates are but themselves. Fixing it after the fact is all fine and dandy but god knows how many customers they lose in the process and the negativity it spurs towards the product.

    These companies need a serious wake up call or at the very least better get more realisitic in their expectations if they're going to release a game that by many player's standards in this day and age isn't a complete product.

    Well, anyways, hopefully these changes appease some of those that were rather upset about this whole thing. Unfortunately it may be too little...too late. So much of this could have been avoided before the game even launched if it was tested further and player's concerns were listened to. I mean for god's sake some of these issues were brought up by people that hadn't even played the game yet on their forums long before testing was opened up because they knew from past experiences in other games.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member

    Originally posted by Wickedjelly

     

    Exactly. Been saying this for some time now and frankly BW are far from the only ones that make this mistake. It is not 2004 anymore. The landscape and the players' expectations have changed. Until they get this notion through their thick, stubborn skulls they are going to see the same thing happen in their games time and time again.

    I don't know what it is going to take because we see the same patterns over and over again. I have no idea how they cannot see this themselves. It is a shame because they have no one to blame for how poor their retention rates are but themselves. Fixing it after the fact is all fine and dandy but god knows how many customers they lose in the process and the negativity it spurs towards the product.

    These companies need a serious wake up call or at the very least better get more realisitic in their expectations if they're going to release a game that by many player's standards in this day and age isn't a complete product.

    Well, anyways, hopefully these changes appease some of those that were rather upset about this whole thing. Unfortunately it may be too little...too late. So much of this could have been avoided before the game even launched if it was tested further and player's concerns were listened to. I mean for god's sake some of these issues were brought up by people that hadn't even played the game yet on their forums long before testing was opened up because they knew from past experiences in other games.

    If this game ends up going the route of warhammer I think it will finally be a big wakeup call to developers...  and to me if it doesn't just shows people actually still enjoy the watered down carrot on a stick type games and the cycle will go on...

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • RednecksithRednecksith Madison heights, MIPosts: 1,238Member

    Despite liking the game, I'm the first to admit that the modified Hero Engine is a steaming pile of bantha poodoo.

    Funny story (or sad, depending upon your POV): I was playing KoA:Reckoning the other night, when on a whim I decided to really pay attention to the textures and shadows. Guess what, the shadows and many textures on my Xbox 360 version of the game were better than many of those present in SWTOR.

    Let me repeat that, so it sinks in.

    A game running on what is now about 6 year old hardware (albeit highly specialized, so let's knock 2 years off for S&Gs) has better shadows and textures than a AAA MMO released in 2012 (I know it was actually 2011, but with only about 15 days to go, so screw it). I'm sorry that's just pathetic, especially when you consider how badly the game runs. It was playable for me, but I sure as hell should have been getting MUCH higher FPS considering how it looked, even on my aging hardware.

    Even the supposed 'high quality' cutscene textures aren't all that great close up. I've found textures in the world that really do look like they came out of an N64 game. There's one right by speeders at the first Imperial base on Hoth that's a pretty big offender in this regard.

    Don't even get me started on the 'grass growing' effect either. Good lord that crap is stupid. LOTRO and pretty much every other game does it right, having the grass and other effects just sort of fade in and out at the edges. SWTOR just has it appear right out of nowhere when you get within draw distance. Incredibly amateurish, IMO.

    Normally I'm not a videophile. But the graphical quality/performance ratio of the game is just so poor I can't help but notice it. I really wish they'd gone with a different engine, or at least hired people who know how to utilize the current one. It's definitely the greatest limitation this game faces. Well, that and EA, but that's a different topic entirely.

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