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ArenaNet: "Play your way" Jon Peters on Traits and Attributes

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Comments

  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member

    Originally posted by ariboersma

    yea not happy about the traits as so many of the ranger traits are for specific pet types... thats highly unfair to lock us into a pet type when it is supposed to be so flexible.. or am I misreading it?

    Yea you are lol.

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • ExilorExilor Las Palmas de Gran CanariaPosts: 391Member

    The area around these trainers is going to be a lag black hole.

  • ariboersmaariboersma Yankton, SDPosts: 1,802Member

    Originally posted by RizelStar

    Originally posted by ariboersma

    yea not happy about the traits as so many of the ranger traits are for specific pet types... thats highly unfair to lock us into a pet type when it is supposed to be so flexible.. or am I misreading it?

    Yea you are lol.

    I just reread the article I dont see what you think im misreading.

    image

  • ariboersmaariboersma Yankton, SDPosts: 1,802Member

    Originally posted by ipeka


    Offense



    • Prowess: Improves the damage multiplier on critical strikes.


    • Malice: Improves the damage done by conditions like burning, poison, confusion, and bleeding.


    • Expertise: Improves the duration of all conditions inflicted by the character.


    Support



    • Concentration: Improves the duration of all boons applied by the character.


    • Compassion: Improves all outgoing heals that your character does, including self heals.


    hmmm almost makes me think that we can never escape the healer-role dilemma  , but at least we wont need tank .

    yea and the main tree I planned to put points in.. for ranger Compassion is one of the attributes.. gogo healing ranger! I mean I don't mind doing it but its a bit weird.

    image

  • UnshraUnshra Hanover, MDPosts: 382Member

    All I want is the ability to dual weild pistols as a ranger, but that seems too much to ask from ArenaNet. ;-p

    image
    Because flying a Minmatar ship is like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an Uzi.

  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member

    Originally posted by ariboersma

    Originally posted by RizelStar


    Originally posted by ariboersma

    yea not happy about the traits as so many of the ranger traits are for specific pet types... thats highly unfair to lock us into a pet type when it is supposed to be so flexible.. or am I misreading it?

    Yea you are lol.

    I just reread the article I dont see what you think im misreading.

    I can't find this in the article lol.

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • AvatarBladeAvatarBlade BucurestiPosts: 770Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by RizelStar

    Originally posted by ariboersma


    Originally posted by RizelStar


    Originally posted by ariboersma

    yea not happy about the traits as so many of the ranger traits are for specific pet types... thats highly unfair to lock us into a pet type when it is supposed to be so flexible.. or am I misreading it?

    Yea you are lol.

    I just reread the article I dont see what you think im misreading.

    I can't find this in the article lol.

    I think he means that compassion is important for a ranger and that also compassion is located on the beastmastery trait.

  • ipekaipeka hamburgPosts: 222Member

    Originally posted by ariboersma

    yea and the main tree I planned to put points in.. for ranger Compassion is one of the attributes.. gogo healing ranger! I mean I don't mind doing it but its a bit weird.

    i suddenly remembered power ranger's theme song and yes , i chuckled a bit when you wrote that .

  • doragon86doragon86 Boston, MAPosts: 589Member

    I care very little about the money sink. However, I don't like the idea of having to go to town to respec. I'd rather they allow you to respec for PvE on the fly and just integrate the fee into that, i.e. no respec NPC.

    "For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
    And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:
    And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
    And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"
    ~Lord George Gordon Byron

  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member

    Originally posted by doragon86

    I care very little about the money sink. However, I don't like the idea of having to go to town to respec. I'd rather they allow you to respec for PvE on the fly and just integrate the fee into that, i.e. no respec NPC.

    Agreed

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • needalife214needalife214 Moorpark, CAPosts: 1,128Member

    Originally posted by ariboersma

    Originally posted by ipeka


    Offense



    • Prowess: Improves the damage multiplier on critical strikes.


    • Malice: Improves the damage done by conditions like burning, poison, confusion, and bleeding.


    • Expertise: Improves the duration of all conditions inflicted by the character.


    Support



    • Concentration: Improves the duration of all boons applied by the character.


    • Compassion: Improves all outgoing heals that your character does, including self heals.


    hmmm almost makes me think that we can never escape the healer-role dilemma  , but at least we wont need tank .

    yea and the main tree I planned to put points in.. for ranger Compassion is one of the attributes.. gogo healing ranger! I mean I don't mind doing it but its a bit weird.

    you can't.. because there have been healers since D&D.

    what i guess people still don't understand in that you will build your character to what you want to do. but those chocies will still wittle down a dmg dealer, a dmg taker, a healer, a support, or a control.   The warrior is not just a tank, as he can throw his banner around and give buffs and crazy knockbacks, or have everyone move fast and charge with his warhorn, or he can grab his bow and rifle and throw out some ranged dmg.

    THERE ARE STILL ROLES TO BE FILLED, and arena net has never said these would go away.

     

    WHAT THEY DID SAY- classes are not locked into roles (warior in WoW can only tank or dps), The better the players skills' at dodging and thinking through a fight will help him more then just gear.

    The Elementalist can switch to earth and help soak up some dmg for the warrior if he needs it, or an agile theif can dart in and out to confuse the AI, but if you are good enough you will never take damage (this is not counting some dmg from traps or just dmg you cant avoid) 

    5 elementalists can run in a dungeon, but dont you think they have someone supporting and dealing dmg and all of them are dodging and swaping skills and moving about?

    The roles are still there, but if you use your mind and skills and you can overcome.

    image

  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member

    They just took the holy and necessitie for it by a proffesion.

    I'm pretty sure if you don't focus on compassion you can still support...ahh yes you can. 

     

    Only way I see to worry about this is if only a percific proffesion can do a role that another proffesion can't, then it becomes a problem lol.

     

     

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • BaniscoBanisco LoquilandiaPosts: 240Member

    Originally posted by ariboersma

    Originally posted by ipeka


    Offense



    • Prowess: Improves the damage multiplier on critical strikes.


    • Malice: Improves the damage done by conditions like burning, poison, confusion, and bleeding.


    • Expertise: Improves the duration of all conditions inflicted by the character.


    Support



    • Concentration: Improves the duration of all boons applied by the character.


    • Compassion: Improves all outgoing heals that your character does, including self heals.


    hmmm almost makes me think that we can never escape the healer-role dilemma  , but at least we wont need tank .

    yea and the main tree I planned to put points in.. for ranger Compassion is one of the attributes.. gogo healing ranger! I mean I don't mind doing it but its a bit weird.

    I think the compassion atribute is at your beastmaster trait in order to heal you and your pet better, i think the ranger only has a skill to heal others, a trap or a fountain of some kind.

    Anyway i think its fine to have to pay in order to respec, its true in GW1 you can do it for free, but there were also runes that inproved your skills, and if you wanted to fully respec in that game u had to change the amor (with the runes on them), for example I had 3 headsets for my necro, one for each of their skill tipes. And you cant respec during a mission, so u had to go to a town or outpost to do it, i think the reason of havin to pay to change your build is to make it a little harder and more of a trial and error character developement, wich is great in my opinion.

    Also if what u want is to try new builds you can go to the pvp lobby (in the mists) and try all the builds you want versus the practice dummies, or in pvp matches.

     

  • ariboersmaariboersma Yankton, SDPosts: 1,802Member

    Originally posted by RizelStar

    Originally posted by ariboersma


    Originally posted by RizelStar


    Originally posted by ariboersma

    yea not happy about the traits as so many of the ranger traits are for specific pet types... thats highly unfair to lock us into a pet type when it is supposed to be so flexible.. or am I misreading it?

    Yea you are lol.

    I just reread the article I dont see what you think im misreading.

    I can't find this in the article lol.

    you cant find it in the article because ranger major/minor triats arent listed in the article. I am going off the known trait list. What I questioned myself misreading was those bonus traits that you choose are a fee to change or not.

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  • friednietzfriednietz The Study, NYPosts: 118Member

    What a mess.

    Permanence is the least of the problems I see here. One can always respec but for a fee to a trainer, so it's not so bad. Unlike Arena.Net I don't see the importance of ball and chaining players when they want to respec to try a different strategy against a difficult encounter while in a dungeon for example. But hey, wiki should be completed within 3 weeks of release so you can check what works and what doesn't work before entering a difficult instance lololol.

    On the other hand, all the profession specific attributes that decrease recharge time seem lame when compared to the prof. specific attributes that improve life force (health), damage etc.

    Good gracious look at how lame the guardian's attribute is. It either provides virtue spamming (lol dynamic comabt) or it reduces all recharge by 5-10 seconds which is just bland for the Virtues of Justice and Courage since they only trigger once. Why not let it provide longer durations on the boons that are triggered when they activate their virtues.

  • nolic1nolic1 Kingman, AZPosts: 687Member Uncommon

    I like it lets you define your toon to your play style and gives you a bonus for it and yeah you might loose a little from it but it allows you as a player to make your choices on how you play and still be effective in a group. It does not say that anywhere in the link that you would gimp yourself or your group but it allows you to define what you like to play and how is all nothing like a talent tree more like the old skill point system except to change it you have to see a trainer first. So like any game there I think it might work out will have to see I just don't want to play a game where I am the same as the next what ever no matter what.

    image
    To me I enjoy gaming I dont play to be uber I play to have fun. If a game is not fun to me guess what I move on and play something else till I find one that is. When I find that great game and not sure if in my life time there will be one I hope it has everything I want in an mmo.

  • stealthbrstealthbr BrasiliaPosts: 1,053Member

    So now there are 10 attributes per character? That's quite an amount.

    Oh, and, what do the 4 base attributes do now (power, precision, toughness, and vitality)?

  • Shroom_MageShroom_Mage Lafayette, LAPosts: 863Member

    I'm actually really happy with this. I like having a sense of permanency to my character. Your decisions when building your character carry significant meaning now. They just need to work out something so you don't teleport back to town from a dungeon, respec, teleport back, and fight the boss with this specific boss-killing build. Honestly, had I designed it, I would have restricted you from changing builds at all in a dungeon.

    I'm not thrilled about weapon- or skill-specific traits, but I'll wait to see how the balance works out before I complain. The traits look very unbalanced right now.

    The only change I would ask for is removing the points you receive in your primary four attributes when you level up. They might as well make it so you gain attributes exclusively from gear and trait points. If you don't put points into vitality when you level, your health doesn't increase. I don't know if they'd even need level scaling at all if they did that.

    Guru freaks out because they're terrified of change. More at 11.

    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

  • acidbloodacidblood melbournePosts: 265Member Uncommon

    Hmm, sounds alright, and you should get enough points make a diverse enough character to handle a number of situations. My main concerns are:

    1. Is there much / any point to spending points not in groups of 5? For example: why go 26, 26, 18, when 25, 25, 20 gets you an extra major trait slot at the cost of only 1 point in 2 attributes.

    2. Is everything going to become too 'busy'? With traits like "gain the Might boon when swapping weapons", and "drops a field of caltrops every time she dodges" in addition to regular skills, aren't there just going to be special effects going off like it's constantly 00:00 on new years eve.

    3. The profession specific attributes seem kind of... hidden away / wasted, I mean there is only one trait line that increases them, so if you don't take that line it's like you're wasting the uniqueness of that class.

    This is all speculation of course, and as someone who has tried their hand a creating an RPG system I know it's far from easy, but this just doesn't strike me as a perticularly great system. Also, they redesigned Boons / Conditions so they weren't as 'mathy', yet this system has 'mathy' written all over it :/

  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomePosts: 3,538Member Uncommon

    I guess iteration can go both ways, , this is what they wrote about traits in an older blog ( http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/traits-overview/ ) :

    'We want experimentation with traits to be fun and engaging, so we've made the rules for changing traits extremely flexible. With no in-game cost, you can respec at will, outside of combat. This means you are open to experiment with what works and what doesn't work on the fly, without having to go back to town or worry about if you have enough gold. '

    I see current changes as a step back. They now want to tax experimentation, it makes no sense according to their own design philosophy. The whole point was that professions are supposed to be flexible. Put the goldsink on something else please and let us save PVE templates too.

  • ariboersmaariboersma Yankton, SDPosts: 1,802Member

    Originally posted by someforumguy

    I guess iteration can go both ways, , this is what they wrote about traits in an older blog ( http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/traits-overview/ ) :

    'We want experimentation with traits to be fun and engaging, so we've made the rules for changing traits extremely flexible. With no in-game cost, you can respec at will, outside of combat. This means you are open to experiment with what works and what doesn't work on the fly, without having to go back to town or worry about if you have enough gold. '

    I see current changes as a step back. They now want to tax experimentation, it makes no sense according to their own design philosophy. The whole point was that professions are supposed to be flexible. Put the goldsink on something else please and let us save PVE templates too.

    this

    image

  • VaultarVaultar adelaidePosts: 339Member

    I'll repeat what I said in GW2 guru thread for those who think holy trinity is back again and wat not.

    "To all those who complain, you are forgetting one major thing. This game is VERY action based where personal skill is just so much more important and will overshadow any of these traits/attributes mechanics that the game will have.



    Ya there might be initially things like "LF Support Guardian" or wat not. Yet if that Support Guardian doesn't make good use of dodge, or doesn't use environment to his/her advantage or doesn't position him/herself well or doesn't activate skills at the right time, that player will be terrible and will letdown the whole team just because of the lack of personal playing skills.



    When people start realizing just how much player skill itself is important to being successful, then all these "LF this LF that" garbage will be thrown out of the window.



    I personally love the attribute and traits systems just because I know I'll invest tons amount of time personalizing my character to my play-style."

     

    Looking forward to EQL and EQN.

  • fiontarfiontar Dana, MAPosts: 3,719Member

    Originally posted by someforumguy

    I guess iteration can go both ways, , this is what they wrote about traits in an older blog ( http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/traits-overview/ ) :

    'We want experimentation with traits to be fun and engaging, so we've made the rules for changing traits extremely flexible. With no in-game cost, you can respec at will, outside of combat. This means you are open to experiment with what works and what doesn't work on the fly, without having to go back to town or worry about if you have enough gold. '

    I see current changes as a step back. They now want to tax experimentation, it makes no sense according to their own design philosophy. The whole point was that professions are supposed to be flexible. Put the goldsink on something else please and let us save PVE templates too.

    I agree. Seems like they caved to the theorycrafters who often insist that more "permanence" is some how required for specs to establish your character's "identity".

    I'm glad you can still change them for a small fee and a visit to a trainer, but I would much rather that not be necassary. Barriers to easy and free spec changes just encourages people to stick with Flavor of the Month builds to the detriment of more free form experimentation. (This also really flies in the face of the game's design philosophy, which has eschewed game mechanics that force you to stop having fun enjoying content for a forced return to a trainer).

    As a compromise, I would ask for the ability to have two or more specs you can freely switch between in the field, with a visit to a trainer only needed to reset those specs.

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
    image

  • AvatarBladeAvatarBlade BucurestiPosts: 770Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Vaultar

    I'll repeat what I said in GW2 guru thread for those who think holy trinity is back again and wat not.

    "To all those who complain, you are forgetting one major thing. This game is VERY action based where personal skill is just so much more important and will overshadow any of these traits/attributes mechanics that the game will have.



    Ya there might be initially things like "LF Support Guardian" or wat not. Yet if that Support Guardian doesn't make good use of dodge, or doesn't use environment to his/her advantage or doesn't position him/herself well or doesn't activate skills at the right time, that player will be terrible and will letdown the whole team just because of the lack of personal playing skills.



    When people start realizing just how much player skill itself is important to being successful, then all these "LF this LF that" garbage will be thrown out of the window.



    I personally love the attribute and traits systems just because I know I'll invest tons amount of time personalizing my character to my play-style."

     

    You can't say that the more support guardian, for example, won't be taken over the more dpsy one, if their player skill are somewhat the same. Ofcourse it's not that the trinity is back, but it still might make people have to have a certain spec to be taken in a dungeon, considering players of somewhat equal skill. Have to see more details on how it works out tho.

  • MorcotulconMorcotulcon LisbonPosts: 262Member Common

    Originally posted by cali59

    I really really dislike this change for two reasons.

     

    First:

    We realized that an important part of building a character is some sense of permanence. With this new system, you are flexible enough to change if you really want to, but you should still feel like the choices you made matter while you are out adventuring or slogging your way through a dungeon. In competitive PvP, you have a separately saved trait build and can respec free of charge.

     

    I don't get this, it doesn't seem like it fits at all.  Combat is supposed to be fluid with people able to build towards different roles based on the encounter.  In some other game yeah I can kind of see the idea of having a tankish build of skills and then locking in traits to support that, but what if in GW2 you need to be controlling for one encounter and support for the next?  You can totally change your skills but now you have traits that don't support this change at all.

    And in a game full of instant teleportation (and one person can leave a dungeon as long as they all don't) then what is the point of making people go back to town to pay a fee and make everyone wait?

    The only way this makes sense to me is if traits are so complicated compared to skills that you want to actively discourage their respecing so people don't have to wait for people to keep allocating points before every boss battle.

     

    And if that wasn't bad enough, we have this.

    Major Traits (For each of the three unlocked slots, the warrior may choose any of these):



    • Gain adrenaline whenever killing an enemy.


    • Reduced signet-recharge time.


    • Movement skills break out of the Immobilize condition.


    • Reduced burst-skill recharge time.


    • Gain adrenaline when inflicting a critical hit with an axe skill.


    • Increased movement speed while wielding a melee weapon.


    • Reduced burst-skill adrenaline cost.


    • Chance to rally whenever killing an enemy while under the effects of Vengeance.


    • Improved critical chance for each full level of adrenaline.

    Traits that depend on specific things I think are particularly bad, but not so much when you can freely change them and your skills.  You just have to make a judgement call whether it's worth taking the trait when you have X number of Signets or certain weapons.  Now, if you switch your weapons/skills due to a different boss, you're now going to have 100% worthless major traits if you took these.

     

    I really hope guildwars2guru is going ballistic over this.

     

    edit: someone on GW2Guru is saying you need to go to a trainer to respec the points, but you can freely swap the major traits.  That's better but still not awesome to me.  Also I don't know if that's confirmed.

     

    It was me Cali. I lurk here in these forums for quite a while now! xD 

    But as I said before to you and another guy there, and to everyone here read it:

    You can change the Major Traits like you could earlier and you have all of them available to you, and this is something a lot of people didn't understood yet. So, the old system of Traits change is still in the game. What you can't change without spending a small fee are the Minor Traits and the new Trait Attributes, because those are stuck in the Trait Lines you spend points in. The only way to change Trait Lines is re-spec the points in them.

    So yeah, it's a middle ground of can/can't change Traits, but you will know what Minor Traits you wont use so, in my point of view, it's really about beeing a Jack-of-all-trades-but-master-of-none-Warrior or beeing, for example, a Master-of-2(+1)-trades-Warrior (giving the Build of Jon Peters in this last example). If you could change everything, the number of playstyles in each profession would have to be less because of balance in Traits. If you couldn't change anything, we would have another traditional MMORPG.

     

    Just think. Respec is only if you want to change the points you have in the Trait Lines. 

    As you see in the article, each Trait Line has pre-defined Minor Traits like in Warrior Discipline below (all of them related to swaping weapons), so you know you can't change those. But the Major Traits are only slots that you unlock, so you will still have the ability to chose which Trait you want in that slot.

    If you only respec to change the points you have in the Trait Lines, that means you wont need to respec to change the Traits you have in those slots.

     

    This are my conclusions about it, so it was easier to copy-paste from there.

    My only question is in another problem. How will they manage to keep this current system away from "LF (class) with X,Y Trait Lines" in Dungeons/PVP/Squads/Guilds? Only time will tell! But I guess players will forget about that problem in a game it's easier to play socially with others.

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