For me, when I buy a MMO and there is a sub fee I expect access to everything, even if its just cosmetic .
I just read somewhere (I don't remember if it was on MMORPG.com) that The Secret World (Or was that that other funcom game) might have a model that requires sub to play but a cash shop for cosmetics . (If my information is incorrect, I'm sorry, but I'd still like the question to be answered.)
This has complelty turned me off from the game, which I was really excited for.
So what do you think about paying a box-price, having to pay a sub price and also needing to use cash shop to get ALL content for a game ?
Depends.
Do you consider wearing a black leather jacket from a cash shop, content?
That is not a matter of opinion. It is content. What is a matter of opinion is whether it is content that matters to you.
Considering that the sub fee in most MMOs is a rip-off anyways, I think a sub fee with a cash shop is usually just a slap in the face. I would count LOTRO as the exception, because they give you points to buy stuff in the cash shop as a part of the subscription.
So does Funcom.
Do they? I haven't heard anything about that. Source please
Considering that the sub fee in most MMOs is a rip-off anyways, I think a sub fee with a cash shop is usually just a slap in the face. I would count LOTRO as the exception, because they give you points to buy stuff in the cash shop as a part of the subscription.
So does Funcom.
Do they? I haven't heard anything about that. Source please
Most likely he meant The Secret Wold which has a sub fee, cash shop and box price
"At the presentation we revealed that The Secret World will feature a traditional paid subscription model combined with micro-transactions through an in-game store. This information was provided as part of Funcom's financial forecast going forward, and no further details were given due to the fact that we are still working on finalizing the model."
If I grind for a month with the goal of getting a vanity pet and then arrive for my five minutes of showing off in front of a bank only to find some great behemoth of a vanity mount dominiating the scene, then that does damage. It quietly deflates me, makes me question why I'm bothering to play. It's unlikely that a player would quit a game over such a thing, but it's an extra straw that is going to eventually contribute to a breaking point somewhere down the line.
I guess I never saw it this way because I don't care what others have or worry if they care what I have. If I farm 10 hours for an item and he purchases it for $10, then the only difference is the journey to the two individuals took to get it. I know what I did, he knows what he did, but wondering what each other chose to do is fruitless. People do what satisfies themselves in these games, and to catch feelings over property is borderline lunatic.
no your not part of the minority. honestly i could give a rats ass what others think about me, if i see something that i want in the cash shop i buy it for me, not because i have a inferiority complex. this arguement that claims people will buy things from the cash shop because other people have is dumb. sure some people will fall into that catagory, Natural selection claims lives every year. what shouldnt a company make a profit of your short comings.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Ok ... that wasn't really the right question for me to ask - it's not really about the motives of the purchaser but the overall effect on the community as a whole. It's just that the poster was so quick to point out they didn't have an inferiority complex that it came across as an obvious attempt to portray themselves as superior.
if the game is good, and the cash shop is purely cosmetic, I couldnt care less.
I will enjoy the game and ignore the cash shop altogether.
vanity stuff ranks around the rock bottom in my list of priorities when playing a game. no wait, actually they dont even rank up, usually I wont spend a single second of my game time hunting for an item that just looks good, when I could be hunting for an item that looks a wee bit worse but is actually an upgrade.
those who think differently, I respect it, but I just dont understand them.
I dont feel impressed AT ALL by what someone is wearing, unless its an item that has some real ingame value, e.x better stats...
Ok ... that wasn't really the right question for me to ask - it's not really about the motives of the purchaser but the overall effect on the community as a whole. It's just that the poster was so quick to point out they didn't have an inferiority complex that it came across as an obvious attempt to portray themselves as superior.
I think it was moreso that the inferiority complex card is the default stereotype that people use to jab at individuals for usng cash shops. It was innevitiable that it was going to brought up...who said it first doesn't really matter.
If I grind for a month with the goal of getting a vanity pet and then arrive for my five minutes of showing off in front of a bank only to find some great behemoth of a vanity mount dominiating the scene, then that does damage. It quietly deflates me, makes me question why I'm bothering to play. It's unlikely that a player would quit a game over such a thing, but it's an extra straw that is going to eventually contribute to a breaking point somewhere down the line.
I guess I never saw it this way because I don't care what others have or worry if they care what I have. If I farm 10 hours for an item and he purchases it for $10, then the only difference is the journey to the two individuals took to get it. I know what I did, he knows what he did, but wondering what each other chose to do is fruitless. People do what satisfies themselves in these games, and to catch feelings over property is borderline lunatic.
But I think I'm in the extreme minority here.
That's perfectly fine.
Also there is perfectly fine that some people want to play a game where buying something in cash shop is impossible.
Both 'views' are fine ,even if they are mutually exclusive
For me, when I buy a MMO and there is a sub fee I expect access to everything, even if its just cosmetic .
I just read somewhere (I don't remember if it was on MMORPG.com) that The Secret World (Or was that that other funcom game) might have a model that requires sub to play but a cash shop for cosmetics . (If my information is incorrect, I'm sorry, but I'd still like the question to be answered.)
This has complelty turned me off from the game, which I was really excited for.
So what do you think about paying a box-price, having to pay a sub price and also needing to use cash shop to get ALL content for a game ?
Depends.
Do you consider wearing a black leather jacket from a cash shop, content?
I do.
Why should a player who enjoys aesthetics more have to pay extra as opposed to a player who only cares about stats?
Games selling cosmetics? Uh...there are probably better things to direct your nerdrage against.
Cosmetics are an advantage. Not everything of value that happens in a game can be easily measured numerically. If people are willing to pay for something, then it has value. I actually have the opposite opinion: that anything that people are willing to pay for, in the end, is equally worthy of fuss, whether it is cosmetic or an I win button.
It is very hard for me to tell a company to leave money sitting on the table. If people are looking around for a way to spend real money on the game, then if you don't provide a release, they are just going to go to some third-party seller of ingame goods. But, just like gold sellers, it does do damage to the in-game community.
If I grind for a month with the goal of getting a vanity pet and then arrive for my five minutes of showing off in front of a bank only to find some great behemoth of a vanity mount dominiating the scene, then that does damage. It quietly deflates me, makes me question why I'm bothering to play. It's unlikely that a player would quit a game over such a thing, but it's an extra straw that is going to eventually contribute to a breaking point somewhere down the line.
Cosmetics have value.
They do not provide an advantage.
Big difference.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
If they aren't offering an advantage, where does the value come from? My arguement is that measurable esport buffs and nebulous subjective perceptions of social status must both equally valid "advantages" if people are equally willing to put down real money when they are offered.
People that say it's ok because they don't care about cosmetic items is bit like a non-PvPer saying that they don't care about "arrows of I win" being sold in the store because they don't affect the non-PvPer's perception of what's important in the game.
If they aren't offering an advantage, where does the value come from? My arguement is that measurable esport buffs and nebulous subjective perceptions of social status must both equally valid "advantages" if people are equally willing to put down real money when they are offered.
What are these advantages you are talking about, are they tangible? As long as someone else can't buy "uber item of own my ass" I could care less about the eye patch they are paying for.
You buy the box or DLC and what you just bought is yours. If you pay for a subscription, you are paying rent to be able to play the game you own on someone else's server. And within that game there may be a store selling cosmetic or convenience items that you can access from time to time if you feel like it.
So there's a practical reality of the model. It works quite well in a couple games, and very poorly in others.
I think I would say the Sub + Cash Shop Model concept = Turn Off for me. Yet I find myself playing one of those games, so there must be a difference between the concept of it and the reality of it.
I will buy TSW at launch and play it for a while, but if the cash shop offer anything funky ill unsub immediately.
I dont mind if they sell items you can obtain and it wouldnt offer any advantages (if i can find a yellow coat in some dungeon at lvl xyz and cash shop offers it for xyz$ i dont mind as long as its only a cosmetic item)
AND NO FRIKKIN' ADVERTISEMENTS IN THE GAME PLEASE!
PS
IF i pay sub i want regular content updates and no restrictions to it at no cost. simple
I always look at the game first. The question is whether it is fun enough to warrant whatever price they are charging. I don't see anything wrong with sub + cash shop.
It is a free world. If you do not like the sub price, or whatever in the shop, don't buy it.
If Im already paying a sub, why am I being charged more for ingame content? Is that not what the sub is for? Sub + CashShop = greed to me. Im not buying it.
That's what the sub was for. Now with the lovely concoction of developer greed and human stupidity, we actually have games that ask for even more. I'm not buying it either but it would appear that not all choose to be so wise.
Less for more, what a bargain.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
If they aren't offering an advantage, where does the value come from? My arguement is that measurable esport buffs and nebulous subjective perceptions of social status must both equally valid "advantages" if people are equally willing to put down real money when they are offered.
People that say it's ok because they don't care about cosmetic items is bit like a non-PvPer saying that they don't care about "arrows of I win" being sold in the store because they don't affect the non-PvPer's perception of what's important in the game.
The value comes from looks, which don't provide an advantage.
Gamers almost never care about whether players can "Pay 2 Win....at looking good".
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
If Im already paying a sub, why am I being charged more for ingame content? Is that not what the sub is for? Sub + CashShop = greed to me. Im not buying it.
That's what the sub was for. Now with the lovely concoction of developer greed and human stupidity, we actually have games that ask for even more. I'm not buying it either but it would appear that not all choose to be so wise.
Less for more, what a bargain.
It is a FREE world. The developers are FREE to charge their work whatever way they want to. You, OTOH, are FREE to NOT purchase.
I don't see a problem.
If Blizzard makes a nice flying dragon and wants to charge $25, who are we to argue? It is THEIR dragon. And if *I* like it enough to pay $25, who are YOU to say i should not.
Obviously you won't .. but that is your choice, which is perfectly fine.
I don't mind cosmetic stuff being Cash Shop even with sub, so long as its very very little things being done this way and/or if its a f2p title with a sub option that doesn't cut you out of features and in some way gives you those points to buy those cosmetic stuff.
I'd prefer to see one or the other, but I'm tolerable of cosmetic item shops.
Anything else and it's a game breaker and if the company isn't clear about their model up front it's a game breaker; for example, if they don't commit to a cosmetic items only policy or they've betrayed players in another of their games by flip flopping like that I'd walk away.
Comments
I will not play a game that has a sub fee and a cash shop.
My theme song.
That is not a matter of opinion. It is content. What is a matter of opinion is whether it is content that matters to you.
http://www.darkdemonscrygaia.com/showthread.php?t=20339
From Tarib: "The Secret World will feature a traditional paid subscription model combined with micro-transactions through an in-game store"
Most likely he meant The Secret Wold which has a sub fee, cash shop and box price
"At the presentation we revealed that The Secret World will feature a traditional paid subscription model combined with micro-transactions through an in-game store. This information was provided as part of Funcom's financial forecast going forward, and no further details were given due to the fact that we are still working on finalizing the model."
http://www.darkdemonscrygaia.com/showthread.php?p=523662
I guess I never saw it this way because I don't care what others have or worry if they care what I have. If I farm 10 hours for an item and he purchases it for $10, then the only difference is the journey to the two individuals took to get it. I know what I did, he knows what he did, but wondering what each other chose to do is fruitless. People do what satisfies themselves in these games, and to catch feelings over property is borderline lunatic.
But I think I'm in the extreme minority here.
no your not part of the minority. honestly i could give a rats ass what others think about me, if i see something that i want in the cash shop i buy it for me, not because i have a inferiority complex. this arguement that claims people will buy things from the cash shop because other people have is dumb. sure some people will fall into that catagory, Natural selection claims lives every year. what shouldnt a company make a profit of your short comings.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
All I really have to say is "Greed is Good". Thats what I think about it.
But what is your motive for wanting it? If you actually trace through your emotions, where does that desire actually come from?
Why is that a concern to anyone but him?
Ok ... that wasn't really the right question for me to ask - it's not really about the motives of the purchaser but the overall effect on the community as a whole. It's just that the poster was so quick to point out they didn't have an inferiority complex that it came across as an obvious attempt to portray themselves as superior.
if the game is good, and the cash shop is purely cosmetic, I couldnt care less.
I will enjoy the game and ignore the cash shop altogether.
vanity stuff ranks around the rock bottom in my list of priorities when playing a game. no wait, actually they dont even rank up, usually I wont spend a single second of my game time hunting for an item that just looks good, when I could be hunting for an item that looks a wee bit worse but is actually an upgrade.
those who think differently, I respect it, but I just dont understand them.
I dont feel impressed AT ALL by what someone is wearing, unless its an item that has some real ingame value, e.x better stats...
I simply cannot picture my MMOs as catwalks
I think it was moreso that the inferiority complex card is the default stereotype that people use to jab at individuals for usng cash shops. It was innevitiable that it was going to brought up...who said it first doesn't really matter.
That's perfectly fine.
Also there is perfectly fine that some people want to play a game where buying something in cash shop is impossible.
Both 'views' are fine ,even if they are mutually exclusive
I do.
Why should a player who enjoys aesthetics more have to pay extra as opposed to a player who only cares about stats?
Not very fair.
Cosmetics have value.
They do not provide an advantage.
Big difference.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
If they aren't offering an advantage, where does the value come from? My arguement is that measurable esport buffs and nebulous subjective perceptions of social status must both equally valid "advantages" if people are equally willing to put down real money when they are offered.
People that say it's ok because they don't care about cosmetic items is bit like a non-PvPer saying that they don't care about "arrows of I win" being sold in the store because they don't affect the non-PvPer's perception of what's important in the game.
What are these advantages you are talking about, are they tangible? As long as someone else can't buy "uber item of own my ass" I could care less about the eye patch they are paying for.
Here's the reality:
You buy the box or DLC and what you just bought is yours. If you pay for a subscription, you are paying rent to be able to play the game you own on someone else's server. And within that game there may be a store selling cosmetic or convenience items that you can access from time to time if you feel like it.
So there's a practical reality of the model. It works quite well in a couple games, and very poorly in others.
I think I would say the Sub + Cash Shop Model concept = Turn Off for me. Yet I find myself playing one of those games, so there must be a difference between the concept of it and the reality of it.
I will buy TSW at launch and play it for a while, but if the cash shop offer anything funky ill unsub immediately.
I dont mind if they sell items you can obtain and it wouldnt offer any advantages (if i can find a yellow coat in some dungeon at lvl xyz and cash shop offers it for xyz$ i dont mind as long as its only a cosmetic item)
AND NO FRIKKIN' ADVERTISEMENTS IN THE GAME PLEASE!
PS
IF i pay sub i want regular content updates and no restrictions to it at no cost. simple
I always look at the game first. The question is whether it is fun enough to warrant whatever price they are charging. I don't see anything wrong with sub + cash shop.
It is a free world. If you do not like the sub price, or whatever in the shop, don't buy it.
That's what the sub was for. Now with the lovely concoction of developer greed and human stupidity, we actually have games that ask for even more. I'm not buying it either but it would appear that not all choose to be so wise.
Less for more, what a bargain.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
The value comes from looks, which don't provide an advantage.
Gamers almost never care about whether players can "Pay 2 Win....at looking good".
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
It is a FREE world. The developers are FREE to charge their work whatever way they want to. You, OTOH, are FREE to NOT purchase.
I don't see a problem.
If Blizzard makes a nice flying dragon and wants to charge $25, who are we to argue? It is THEIR dragon. And if *I* like it enough to pay $25, who are YOU to say i should not.
Obviously you won't .. but that is your choice, which is perfectly fine.
I don't mind cosmetic stuff being Cash Shop even with sub, so long as its very very little things being done this way and/or if its a f2p title with a sub option that doesn't cut you out of features and in some way gives you those points to buy those cosmetic stuff.
I'd prefer to see one or the other, but I'm tolerable of cosmetic item shops.
Anything else and it's a game breaker and if the company isn't clear about their model up front it's a game breaker; for example, if they don't commit to a cosmetic items only policy or they've betrayed players in another of their games by flip flopping like that I'd walk away.