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Things that are coming - LFG, Duel Specs, Customisable UI... But one question:

noncleynoncley LondonPosts: 648Member Uncommon

Why on earth weren't these basic features - already tried and tested and standard with many lesser MMOs - implemented at SWTOR's launch? This game's been in development since 2005 and was developed by some of the best known names in the industry - so why are we only getting features to uncripple the game now?

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Comments

  • brutality123brutality123 LondonPosts: 125Member

    Originally posted by noncley

    Why on earth weren't these basic features - already tried and tested and standard with many lesser MMOs - implemented at SWTOR's launch? This game's been in development since 2005 and was developed by some of the best known names in the industry - so why are we only getting features to uncripple the game now?

    they are not basic features if that helps and in fact is the answer to your question.

    People have been completing content since a week or so after the games launch. Indeed some have quit stating there was nothing left in the game for them to do. This does not sound like the game is crippled

  • Skaara55Skaara55 Riverside, CAPosts: 42Member

    Because they listened to the wrong people who insisted those things were tools of the devil or some bs like that.

  • dubyahitedubyahite Lincoln, NEPosts: 2,483Member
    Company has to launch the game at some point. You can't develop every feature out of every mmo ever and make your launch date.


    That being said, these features are expected in a modern game an they don't have a whole lot of time to get them implemented before people start freaking out.

    Thes games are very complex systems. People often say things like "it would only take five minutes of coding!" or "the devs are just lazy" or "it's just a couple of if statements!" these people could not be farther from the truth. They have no idea what the internal development process is like and how complex these systems really are.


    Even the simplest of features or fixes can have far reaching consequences when it is rushed or poorly implemented. It can cause bugs in completely unrelated systems or break the game in many ways. You need look no further than the Soa bug fixes Bioware has been doing. They are rushe and poorly tested and they always cause more bugs.


    TL;DR: it's not as simple as you think.

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  • Skaara55Skaara55 Riverside, CAPosts: 42Member

    Originally posted by dubyahite

    Company has to launch the game at some point. You can't develop every feature out of every mmo ever and make your launch date.





    That being said, these features are expected in a modern game an they don't have a whole lot of time to get them implemented before people start freaking out.



    Thes games are very complex systems. People often say things like "it would only take five minutes of coding!" or "the devs are just lazy" or "it's just a couple of if statements!" these people could not be farther from the truth. They have no idea what the internal development process is like and how complex these systems really are.





    Even the simplest of features or fixes can have far reaching consequences when it is rushed or poorly implemented. It can cause bugs in completely unrelated systems or break the game in many ways. You need look no further than the Soa bug fixes Bioware has been doing. They are rushe and poorly tested and they always cause more bugs.





    TL;DR: it's not as simple as you think.

    Classic apologist here folks, just move along.

  • KhaerosKhaeros Monroe, NYPosts: 452Member

    Originally posted by Skaara55

    Because they listened to the wrong people who insisted those things were tools of the devil or some bs like that.

     

    'Don't put in LFG tool, it ruins the community!'

     

    ...

     

    'I can't fill groups because no tanks are responding to fleet general, we need some way to find group members easier!  They keep saying something about respec costs raising each time they want to join a group in any decent timeframe, but I don't know what they mean!  I'm just all about that shadow deeps, y'all!'

     

     

  • GormokGormok memphis, TNPosts: 379Member

    Like someone else mentioned, they listened to the wrong people. I have been playing for a few months now and can tell you from first hand experience that this game needs a LFG tool. Not because of grouping problems but simply because of the feat of having to travel back to the fleet just to do the flashpoints. Now if the dungeons where out in the open questing world like most mmos, than I could understand the reasoning behind not having this tool. I am at the point now to where if I am deep into my questing I just skip the FPs altogether, because you have to go back to fleet and once done travel back to that planet just to finish up your quests. To much of a bother and a hassle if you ask me, I was a big advocate of this game, but I am beginning see the major flaws in it. After my time is up I am pretty much done with mmos, GW2 and TERA doesn't interest me because I am not into the console based actiony combat.

  • jonrd463jonrd463 Tacoma, WAPosts: 598Member

    Duel specs? So you can make a spec specifically for dueling? Well, I guess that's a point in TOR's favor for versitility.

    "You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous

  • brutality123brutality123 LondonPosts: 125Member

    Originally posted by Khaeros

    Originally posted by Skaara55

    Because they listened to the wrong people who insisted those things were tools of the devil or some bs like that.

     

    'Don't put in LFG tool, it ruins the community!'

     

    ...

     

    'I can't fill groups because no tanks are responding to fleet general, we need some way to find group members easier!  They keep saying something about respec costs raising each time they want to join a group in any decent timeframe, but I don't know what they mean!  I'm just all about that shadow deeps, y'all!'

     

     



    I rolled a tank..    I like getting easy groups without waiting.  Simple supply and demand.

     

    Most people think (from what I have seen) cross server LFG ruins the community but same server LFG is fine

  • jdlamson75jdlamson75 Jacksonville, FLPosts: 985Member Uncommon

    There were definitely a few things missing from the game, but none of it really stopped me from playing.  Guild banks, LFG tool, that sort of thing would have been nice at the outset, but it's not a gamebreaker.  Making the GTN a little less clunky would have been nice too.

     

    I quit playing after a month or so because of...a lack of fun.  I wasn't having it any more.  I won't go and say that i quit because of these "missing basic features".  I just wasn't having fun.

     

    Note:  I resubbed.  I figure I could play at a minimal rate and just fart around.  I like farting, so it's coming pretty naturally to me.  Keps the wife out of the room, too.

  • ChrisboxChrisbox Monroe, NJPosts: 1,707Member Uncommon

    In order to have a game as massive as swtor have all the content it has at launch, things like this had to be post poned. 

    Played-Everything
    Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  • LittlebombLittlebomb issaquah, WAPosts: 152Member

    so people are going to keep playing a game that won't have these basic systems for another 3 months.

  • brutality123brutality123 LondonPosts: 125Member

    Originally posted by Littlebomb

    so people are going to keep playing a game that won't have these basic systems for another 3 months.

    it does have basic systems. These are extras

     

    in what way is a customizable UI basic... or dual spec  or cross realm lfg tool?  none of them are actually needed to complete the game.

     

    yes, I can wait 3 months..  The lack of all 3 of them are not stopping me playing the entire game

  • FrostWyrmFrostWyrm Tempe, AZPosts: 1,036Member

    If I'm not mistaken, I recall hearing the game was released 3 months earlier than BioWare wanted to release it (due to pressure from EA). If thats true, it would explain a lot of the problems and missing bits the game has.

  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,594Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by noncley

    Why on earth weren't these basic features - already tried and tested and standard with many lesser MMOs - implemented at SWTOR's launch? This game's been in development since 2005 and was developed by some of the best known names in the industry - so why are we only getting features to uncripple the game now?

    Because some people get HYSTERICAL when the subject of something like WoW's Dungeon Finder comes up. If you think I'm kidding, you should check out the forums of various games (Rift and SWTOR) and how some people totally lose it when the subject comes up.   The Dev's obviously listened to the wrong people on this, and other subjects.

    Not to mention that all of that takes extra time/talent to produce, and I'm betting that EA was in the background yelling GO! GO! GO!... Looking at some of the content after the late 20's and up, its obvious that much of it was rushed.

  • arctarusarctarus nilPosts: 2,570Member Uncommon
    Regarding LFD, I think bw thought their games will be launch with millions of players and keep expanding. They didn't expect their pop for some servers to go down so fast.

    so now by implementing this they have anger another camp of players that say this tools kills the community. We'll see hoe many players that QQ about dual spec and LFD will truly quit.

    RIP Orc Choppa

  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,858Member Uncommon

    Dual spec is a pretty big deal when everyone knows there's never enough tanks.  Having to spend upwards of 100k to respec just to run a dungeon is not something many people are willing to do.  It's oversights such as this on BW's part that leaves me baffled.

  • bverjibverji Corpus Christi, TXPosts: 722Member Common

    Originally posted by Khaeros

    Originally posted by Skaara55

    Because they listened to the wrong people who insisted those things were tools of the devil or some bs like that.

     

    'Don't put in LFG tool, it ruins the community!'

     

    ...

     

    'I can't fill groups because no tanks are responding to fleet general, we need some way to find group members easier!  They keep saying something about respec costs raising each time they want to join a group in any decent timeframe, but I don't know what they mean!  I'm just all about that shadow deeps, y'all!'

     

     

    Say what you want but the fact it didn't have one is why I left the game

  • DredphyreDredphyre Los Angeles, CAPosts: 601Member

    Originally posted by dubyahite

    Company has to launch the game at some point. You can't develop every feature out of every mmo ever and make your launch date.





    That being said, these features are expected in a modern game an they don't have a whole lot of time to get them implemented before people start freaking out.



    Thes games are very complex systems. People often say things like "it would only take five minutes of coding!" or "the devs are just lazy" or "it's just a couple of if statements!" these people could not be farther from the truth. They have no idea what the internal development process is like and how complex these systems really are.





    Even the simplest of features or fixes can have far reaching consequences when it is rushed or poorly implemented. It can cause bugs in completely unrelated systems or break the game in many ways. You need look no further than the Soa bug fixes Bioware has been doing. They are rushe and poorly tested and they always cause more bugs.





    TL;DR: it's not as simple as you think.

    Truth. This is it.

  • William12William12 Saint paul, MNPosts: 680Member

    basic features name a modern MMO to release with a LFG Tool in the west  ?  You cant rift didnt even have it until 3 months after.

  • bartoni33bartoni33 Southern IllinoisPosts: 1,081Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by brutality123

    Originally posted by Littlebomb

    so people are going to keep playing a game that won't have these basic systems for another 3 months.

    it does have basic systems. These are extras

     

    in what way is a customizable UI basic... or dual spec  or cross realm lfg tool?  none of them are actually needed to complete the game.

     

    yes, I can wait 3 months..  The lack of all 3 of them are not stopping me playing the entire game

    Well as a current player I have to disagree with you on custom UI not being basic because, well, it SHOULD be basic MMO101. No the lack of basic UI customazion does not take away from the game but it sure as hell would make it better.

    My anger is STILL directed at the whole "Hi-rez was a bug" lie. Until we get what is STILL shown in ads and reviews and was present in Beta I cannot and willnot defend EA on anything else that SHOULD have been in at launch. Blind haters and whateverthefuck these forums are full of not included! I will call them out to the best of my abilites, as long as nameless Mods don't take offence.

    image

  • MosesZDMosesZD Kirkwood, MOPosts: 1,383Member

    Originally posted by brutality123

    Originally posted by noncley

    Why on earth weren't these basic features - already tried and tested and standard with many lesser MMOs - implemented at SWTOR's launch? This game's been in development since 2005 and was developed by some of the best known names in the industry - so why are we only getting features to uncripple the game now?

    they are not basic features if that helps and in fact is the answer to your question.

    People have been completing content since a week or so after the games launch. Indeed some have quit stating there was nothing left in the game for them to do. This does not sound like the game is crippled

    lol.   Wrong.   Two of the three are common as dirt and are present even in low-budget F2P model developed MMOs.   

    I haven't followed Ultima Online in years, but I have a friend who still played it on his office computer between visits until 2009...   He had a customizable UI...   Oh, since 2006?  2007?    Maybe earlier...   I know it was a long, long time ago.    My thing wasn't so much in caring about his UI, but rolling my eyes his still playing a 2D game when there were so many games so much better...    If he'd just put the money into a decent laptop he wouldn't be stuck playing UI...

     

    As for dual-spec...    Most the MMOs I've played haven't used skill trees.    But those few I have that do...  Respec and dual-spec accomplish the same thing, respec taking just a few minutes longer in any well-set-up MMO like LOTRO.   And it gives one a nice break right before the boss-fight while the LM is re-specing for DPS after CC.     And every MMO I've played, exept for SWTOR, made it so that if didn't dual-spec, respec was easy and convienent, not hidden God knows where like with sWTOR.

  • MosesZDMosesZD Kirkwood, MOPosts: 1,383Member

    Originally posted by Alders

    Dual spec is a pretty big deal when everyone knows there's never enough tanks.  Having to spend upwards of 100k to respec just to run a dungeon is not something many people are willing to do.  It's oversights such as this on BW's part that leaves me baffled.

     

    It wouldn't have been bad if they'd have done it like LOTRO or some other MMOs.

     

    You pay a small amount of money to change a few attributes.   There are bards everywhere that allow you to do it...   It's easy as pie.   Never had a problem.   The Lore-masters would need to respec from CC to DPS for the boss fight...  No problem.   We'd all chip in a hundred silver pieces each week to cover their out-of-pockets (to be fair) and he'd exit the raid instance, walk over to the trainer (located in every non-starter town) and get it taken care of pronto.   The rest of us could take bio breaks, get a glass of water, whatever...   Five minutes later, we're review the boss-fight strategy and buffing...

     

    But, no.   It's endless travel and constantly escalting fees.   Wasn't worth it...   Fortuantely, I spec'd tank from the beginning so it was not an issue for me.   But others...    You could hit a 100K...

     

  • SkuzSkuz WorcesterPosts: 1,034Member Uncommon

    Hidden god-knows where?

    Tried opening your mouth & asking for directions ?

    It's even in a fairly logical place & has a bloody great sign over it.

    Class Trainer section of the fleet in the same bay as the guild registrar.

  • brutality123brutality123 LondonPosts: 125Member

    Originally posted by MosesZD

    Originally posted by brutality123


    Originally posted by noncley

    Why on earth weren't these basic features - already tried and tested and standard with many lesser MMOs - implemented at SWTOR's launch? This game's been in development since 2005 and was developed by some of the best known names in the industry - so why are we only getting features to uncripple the game now?

    they are not basic features if that helps and in fact is the answer to your question.

    People have been completing content since a week or so after the games launch. Indeed some have quit stating there was nothing left in the game for them to do. This does not sound like the game is crippled

    lol.   Wrong.   Two of the three are common as dirt and are present even in low-budget F2P model developed MMOs.   

    I haven't followed Ultima Online in years, but I have a friend who still played it on his office computer between visits until 2009...   He had a customizable UI...   Oh, since 2006?  2007?    Maybe earlier...   I know it was a long, long time ago.    My thing wasn't so much in caring about his UI, but rolling my eyes his still playing a 2D game when there were so many games so much better...    If he'd just put the money into a decent laptop he wouldn't be stuck playing UI...

     

    As for dual-spec...    Most the MMOs I've played haven't used skill trees.    But those few I have that do...  Respec and dual-spec accomplish the same thing, respec taking just a few minutes longer in any well-set-up MMO like LOTRO.   And it gives one a nice break right before the boss-fight while the LM is re-specing for DPS after CC.     And every MMO I've played, exept for SWTOR, made it so that if didn't dual-spec, respec was easy and convienent, not hidden God knows where like with sWTOR.



    I was assuming basic meant basic rather than common   my bad

  • dubyahitedubyahite Lincoln, NEPosts: 2,483Member
    Originally posted by Skaara55


    Originally posted by dubyahite

    Company has to launch the game at some point. You can't develop every feature out of every mmo ever and make your launch date.





    That being said, these features are expected in a modern game an they don't have a whole lot of time to get them implemented before people start freaking out.



    Thes games are very complex systems. People often say things like "it would only take five minutes of coding!" or "the devs are just lazy" or "it's just a couple of if statements!" these people could not be farther from the truth. They have no idea what the internal development process is like and how complex these systems really are.





    Even the simplest of features or fixes can have far reaching consequences when it is rushed or poorly implemented. It can cause bugs in completely unrelated systems or break the game in many ways. You need look no further than the Soa bug fixes Bioware has been doing. They are rushe and poorly tested and they always cause more bugs.





    TL;DR: it's not as simple as you think.

    Classic apologist here folks, just move along.

     

    Ok, then tell me how I'm wrong instea of throwing insults. You have nothing to add to the conversation and I doubt you even have a basic understanding of what goes into making these games. Explain the development process to me if I'm such an apologist. The truth is that I do have an understanding of what a huge development project like an mmo requires.



    Come back here when you have some real information to contribute to this conversation an let me know how I'm wrong. I'm dying to hear it. Should give me a good laugh.

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