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Lucasarts called the shots with SWG and SOE cares about their fans

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  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    Originally posted by superniceguy



     "We're not cold-hearted," he said. "We treat customers like we treat families." 

    Uh huh. I suppose if you mean selling them something and replacing it with something completely different or selling an expansion and changing the game the next day a good thing to do to family members then fine.

    Jack wagons. The whole lot of 'em. Bunch of incompetent fools who think they know what they're doing.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by someforumguy

    Originally posted by superniceguy



     

    The point is YOU make the content, not the devs = content forever

    If I was a musician I would not care that no one else made any more music, on tape

    SWTOR is all about the content from Bioware, there is no room to let your own imagination go free

    Whilst people can enjoy the game and go group up, is then what makes people quit the game sooner. There are always times when none of your friends are online, or anyone is there to group with, these are the times when you put that time to craffting, and stay subbed

    I cant stand bad analogies. The reason why most musicians pick up an instrument in the first place, is because of other people's music. They usually care a lot about other people's music.

     



    Sorry I meant on tape. Most make music on CDs or MP3s etc now

  • GMan3GMan3 Ewa Beach, HIPosts: 2,127Member

    Originally posted by TUX426

    Originally posted by William12

    Do any of you LA fan  boys really believe SOE could design and code and implement the NGE without lucas arts wanting them to ?   

    I hope some of you realize how a license deal works for games because like SWTOR any and all changes that effect the star wars lore/game go through or from Lucas Arts a company that over the years has proven they care about money first.   LA gets to hide in the backround and let SOE take all the heat for years just like bioware now is taking all the heat for swtor yet LA is responsible for everything in that game including releasing it 6 months early.

    Jeff Freeman, an SOE employee VERY actively involved in the NGE, even called the "father" of the NGE, confirmed long ago that the NGE was SOE's idea, LA simply approved it. Any other theory you may have on it is false.

    I urge you to read this link if you haven't.

        Interesting read.  Really puts an end to the "George made them do it!" tinfoil hat crowd.  Then again, that crowd will just say something along the lines of "George made him post it!".

    "If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    Originally posted by superniceguy



     "We're not cold-hearted," he said. "We treat customers like we treat families." 

    Uh huh. I suppose if you mean selling them something and replacing it with something completely different or selling an expansion and changing the game the next day a good thing to do to family members then fine.

    Jack wagons. The whole lot of 'em. Bunch of incompetent fools who think they know what they're doing.

    They had do, LA ordered it. It was either not do it, and have SOE shut down SWG as LA pulled out, or do it.

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by TUX426

    Originally posted by superniceguy


    Originally posted by TUX426

    Just to provide further proof that SOE doesn't care about their customers, I offer evidence from their latest debacle...the ProSiebenSat.1 deal :)

    http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=515195 <--- SOE's own forums even!

    And here for player reaction

    http://eq2wire.com/2012/02/23/soe-eq2-community-team-deletes-100s-of-posts-bans-dozens-over-prosieben-feedback/

    Yet...there will always be the fools who follow and defend them, despite everything they do.

    Nothing has been sorted yet, and they are still working on the details. All negativity is just over reactions at this stage, as per usual.

    Hey folks – I know it’s been a long few days. We fully appreciate the time and effort you’ve taken to provide your feedback.

    As we’ve said before, we ARE listening, and we are in discussions with ProSieben. We will come back to you with information when it becomes available, but it will be some time yet.

    Please keep in mind that this is not an overnight process and no games are transitioning to ProSieben immediately.

    Thank you for bearing with us during this planning period.

    Linda “Brasse” Carlson

    Director, Global Community Relations, SOE

    In the long run, it looks like there will be more support for EU customers. So looks good :)

     

    You didn't bother to read the links did you? Let me make this easier for you...

     

    A Disingenuous Response?

    So far the response to the ProSiebenSat.1 discussion thread has been hundreds of innocuous posts deleted by EQ2 moderators (who contrary to popular belief are paid contractors and not unpaid volunteers), and dozens of bans handed out to long-time forum members including myself.

    The reasons for posts being deleted have been myriad and nonsensical “not constructive”, “excessive negativity”, and “trolling” on a scale we have not seen since the dark days of Grimwell who single-handledly drove hundreds of players to EQ2Flames back in its more constructive days as a helpful EQ2 player outpost.

    However the most disingenuous response has been this from Linda “Brasse” Carlson:

    Hey folks – I know it’s been a long few days. We fully appreciate the time and effort you’ve taken to provide your feedback.

    As we’ve said before, we ARE listening, and we are in discussions with ProSieben. We will come back to you with information when it becomes available, but it will be some time yet.

    Please keep in mind that this is not an overnight process and no games are transitioning to ProSieben immediately.

    Thank you for bearing with us during this planning period.

    Linda “Brasse” Carlson

    Director, Global Community Relations, SOE

    In reality, Brasse indicated in SOE Podcast #126 (posted on February 15th) that she had been intimately involved in the ProSiebenSat.1 deal and had traveled to Germany (listen starting at 53:40):

    [I'm] still getting over the jet lag of being in Munich [Germany]. I know that everybody’s anxious for more details about how the ProSieben deal will affect our international players, and I’m happy to say that we’ve got an FAQ that’s gone back-and-forth back-and-forth up-and-down sideways back-and-forth.

    Let’s face it, this is a really complex deal, so we should be able to get some information for you — I hate to use the term ’soon’ — We’re hoping for next week. We’re not going to release the information until we’re sure we’ve got all the right answers. There’s no point in telling players stuff and then having it change the following week.

    So to somehow suggest that she was unaware or unprepared for the player response is beyond the pale.

    If it does not work out then they will not do it, but instead people are over reacting and getting themselves banned, and are then not heard by SOE.

    At least if people do want to cancel their account, they will do, unlike SWTOR. I was only cancelling account to stop recurring payments coming out of my account, and to use timecards instead, but I was unable to cancel account until near the free 30 days was over.

    SWTORs downtime is all over the place, and giving zero notice for EU players. They would announce downtime at 2 or 3am for 8am, and then it would get delayed as well. SOEs with SWG was not perfect but at least it was more predictable.

    Point is, all companies are as bad as one another. To say SOE is bad and say EA are awesome, is just a joke

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by GMan3

    Originally posted by TUX426


    Originally posted by William12

    Do any of you LA fan  boys really believe SOE could design and code and implement the NGE without lucas arts wanting them to ?   

    I hope some of you realize how a license deal works for games because like SWTOR any and all changes that effect the star wars lore/game go through or from Lucas Arts a company that over the years has proven they care about money first.   LA gets to hide in the backround and let SOE take all the heat for years just like bioware now is taking all the heat for swtor yet LA is responsible for everything in that game including releasing it 6 months early.

    Jeff Freeman, an SOE employee VERY actively involved in the NGE, even called the "father" of the NGE, confirmed long ago that the NGE was SOE's idea, LA simply approved it. Any other theory you may have on it is false.

    I urge you to read this link if you haven't.

        Interesting read.  Really puts an end to the "George made them do it!" tinfoil hat crowd.  Then again, that crowd will just say something along the lines of "George made him post it!".



    Not really, how do you see that in it?

  • nyxiumnyxium ManchesterPosts: 1,221Member Uncommon

    Star Wars. With itself.

    image
  • ZagavaVonnZagavaVonn Akron, OHPosts: 249Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by crysent

    This doesn't prove anything to me.  Any company on the planet would say they love their customers, treat them like family, yada, yada.

    I've seen numbers that as high as 92% of senior managers at private corporations come from sales or advertising... they're pathological, and are expected to behave that way all the time. Because if they didn't they wouldn't to be there at SOE, Smedley could have instead gone to work for a non-profit bank or whatever alternative with real and meningful differences he could find.

    If SOE cared about peoples families and children in times of crises, they'd all be working as Firemen. And they aren't. They're part of a giant faceless publicly-funded fake-'private' corporate structure. They know what they're doing, they're aware of the numbers and bottom-line, and that's all they care about. Because if they didn't Smedley would be fired on the spot.

    My belief is that SWG became the poster child of abusive MMO treatment of players, hence it got shut down. Basically nothing was going to keep SWG alive as long as SWG was known as 'THE' great corporate mess-up of all MMO history. And that's pretty depressing considering aspects of the game were very innovative and creative, and are still not being done in games today almost 10 years later. image

  • AntariousAntarious Greenville, SCPosts: 2,802Member

    Originally posted by someforumguy

    So they already went F2P with EQ2X before shutting down SWG. They also going F2P with EQ and Vanguard. But not SWG. This makes me suspect too that LA had something to do with this. It is the only game in this list where they don't own the license and can't do anything they want with it. On top of that, the devs for SWG were a lot more active then the devs for Vanguard. They even planned ahead.

     

     

    Its pretty simple...

     

    EQ Mac is 100% owned by SOE.   They decide to keep it up...

     

    SWG was a licensed IP and they don't have that same scenario.

     

    SOE does have a license still with LA for The Clone Wars (f2p) Star Wars game they run...

     

    Its also in LA's interest to keep License agreements open because the more licensed games.. the more license fees they get.

     

    So pretty much either SOE or LA was not going to really make money by keeping SWG open.   Obviously even if SOE wanted to keep SWG open... they cannot force the IP owner to extend the license.   We don't know the situation... but if the game was making money it was in the interest of both parties to keep it open... cash shop or sub.

     

    The only "odd" part about the closure is the fact as Smedly said multiple times..   The SWG galaxy license extended into early 2012.   Yet they decided to shut the game down mid December... they could have let it run until the license expired... why didn't they do that?

     

    Sure the original date for TOR headstart was the same day.. dec 15th (later changed by bioware) but... If SWG made money.. SOE made money... LA made money off the license.   So the easiest answer is they weren't really making money off the game.. and decided to close it.

     

    They may not make money (might even lose it) by keeping the Mac server open.. but they do not have a license fee on top of that.

    Moderator's on this site allow certain posters to create endless troll threads. Yet "warn" people for giving recommendations... account *pending* deletion because.. why bother.

  • SkuzSkuz WorcesterPosts: 1,034Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Robsolf

    Originally posted by TUX426

    Your title is 100% misleading. That was NEVER said anywhere in the interview. Holy crap you like to make shit up.

    What is it with posters and over the top thread titles, lately?  They've always been kinda silly, but lately it's been batsh!t crazy hour...

    It's a cry for attention.

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Antarious

    Originally posted by someforumguy

    So they already went F2P with EQ2X before shutting down SWG. They also going F2P with EQ and Vanguard. But not SWG. This makes me suspect too that LA had something to do with this. It is the only game in this list where they don't own the license and can't do anything they want with it. On top of that, the devs for SWG were a lot more active then the devs for Vanguard. They even planned ahead.

     

     

    Its pretty simple...

     

    EQ Mac is 100% owned by SOE.   They decide to keep it up...

     

    SWG was a licensed IP and they don't have that same scenario.

     

    SOE does have a license still with LA for The Clone Wars (f2p) Star Wars game they run...

     

    Its also in LA's interest to keep License agreements open because the more licensed games.. the more license fees they get.

     

    So pretty much either SOE or LA was not going to really make money by keeping SWG open.   Obviously even if SOE wanted to keep SWG open... they cannot force the IP owner to extend the license.   We don't know the situation... but if the game was making money it was in the interest of both parties to keep it open... cash shop or sub.

     

    The only "odd" part about the closure is the fact as Smedly said multiple times..   The SWG galaxy license extended into early 2012.   Yet they decided to shut the game down mid December... they could have let it run until the license expired... why didn't they do that?

     

    Sure the original date for TOR headstar was the same day.. dec 15th (later changed by bioware) but... If SWG made money.. SOE made money... LA made money off the license.   So the easiest answer is they weren't really making money off the game.. and decided to close it.

     

    They may not make money (might even lose it) by keeping the Mac server open.. but they do not have a license fee on top of that.

    The other oddity is that they gave 6 months notice, and if they were not making any money of it would have made more sense to announce the closure a bit later, as when you announce the closure many people just bail on the game, especially a P2P one. Also at the time they announced the closure they locked Farstar and Chilastra to transfers in as servers grew in May and June and became full.

    At that stage they were not making money because of it being on the free 45 days, but it would have been smarter to wait a month to see if they would sub, as if they did, they would have had more money than before. If people did not sub there would still be plenty time to announce its closure.

    So with that I do not believe it was not making money, as SOE/LA did not know themselves at that stage.. LA just wanted it to close to prevent confusion with SWTOR, and they knew how lacking it was, and that people would go (back) to SWG once reached level 50 and realised there was not much to do

  • hipiaphipiap Chicago, ILPosts: 439Member

    Originally posted by Antarious

    Originally posted by someforumguy

    So they already went F2P with EQ2X before shutting down SWG. They also going F2P with EQ and Vanguard. But not SWG. This makes me suspect too that LA had something to do with this. It is the only game in this list where they don't own the license and can't do anything they want with it. On top of that, the devs for SWG were a lot more active then the devs for Vanguard. They even planned ahead.

     

     

    Its pretty simple...

     

    EQ Mac is 100% owned by SOE.   They decide to keep it up...

     

    SWG was a licensed IP and they don't have that same scenario.

     

    SOE does have a license still with LA for The Clone Wars (f2p) Star Wars game they run...

     

    Its also in LA's interest to keep License agreements open because the more licensed games.. the more license fees they get.

     

    So pretty much either SOE or LA was not going to really make money by keeping SWG open.   Obviously even if SOE wanted to keep SWG open... they cannot force the IP owner to extend the license.   We don't know the situation... but if the game was making money it was in the interest of both parties to keep it open... cash shop or sub.

     

    The only "odd" part about the closure is the fact as Smedly said multiple times..   The SWG galaxy license extended into early 2012.   Yet they decided to shut the game down mid December... they could have let it run until the license expired... why didn't they do that?

     

    Sure the original date for TOR headstar was the same day.. dec 15th (later changed by bioware) but... If SWG made money.. SOE made money... LA made money off the license.   So the easiest answer is they weren't really making money off the game.. and decided to close it.

     

    They may not make money (might even lose it) by keeping the Mac server open.. but they do not have a license fee on top of that.

     

    Like SNG said...they gave us a 6 month heads up.  That Killed Revenue after a certain point when the people that were not going to stick around for the end just up and left.

    Plus with the KNOWN pending release of all 6 movies in 3D....Interest in SW MMO"s was going to skyrocket....I was planning on doing a few things at local game stores around Chicago to get the word out about the game...plus I heard someone was advertising on Craigs List for their Guild and Server...plus people on SS were sending emails to their Local 151st and Rebel Alliance Detachments to get the Info out about SW:G.  The Population of the game was growing pre-Shutdown Notification.  And it was going to keep growing even with TOR being released because people were going to play BOTH.

     

    SOE never gives 6 months Notice for a Shut down.  The Pending shutdown was announced June 2009 and they shut down the service at 00:00 August 1, 2009.  Less than 90 days...

    SOE was TOLD to shut down SW:G for what ever reasons...but they were made to do it.  Conversely....Every MMO they have that they Own Outright in the fantasy genre....they've never shut down no matter how low the population has gotten..

    IE: Vanguard

    MMO History: 2528 days in SW:G
    image

  • ForcanForcan Cypress, CAPosts: 700Member

    I must interject something here...

     

    LucasArts calling the shots on SWG (more like controling the license of SW here, and wanting to have a good image for their IP) have NOTHING to do with whether SOE cares about their fans or not.

     

    Your personal experience may be that SOE treated you well, and you may find some others that had the similar experience as you had with SOE.  But there are just as many, if not more, players that felt they had been screwed by the treatments from SOE, some even with feelings of betrayal of various incidents with SOE and their games (the NGE being just one of them...)

     

    As for the NGE, LucasArts may had the final say in that incident, but SOE is not without fault.  SOE sold an expansion that contains contents which were deemed USELESS when the changes hit.  How's that for "cares about their fans"?  The link to Jeff Freeman's own admission on NGE should show that they are actually proud of what they created (even though the fans at the time hated it.)  When they put it on the TC, almost everyone who tested the NGE wrote on the forum that NGE was not ready, and they would prefer SOE to keep working on it until the fans can agree it's ready.  And that's not counting those who flat-out wrote that NGE screwed up the Pre-CU/CU gameplay, and do not belong in SWG.  What did SOE do?  went ahead as planned.  Oh, and NGE only had 12 ~ 14 days of TC time, and throughout that two weeks, fans were infuriated by SOE's unwilling to listen, and lack of respect for their fans and customers.  They gave no reason as to why they cannot delay the NGE to continue to work on it, and that why have an expansion out when contents inside will be USELESS when the NGE comes around...

     

    Both companies here are at fault for various issues, so to resolve SOE's involvement while shift the blame solely on LucasArts is just not objectively viewing the shut-down of SWG.

    Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR

    Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Forcan

    I must interject something here...

     

    LucasArts calling the shots on SWG (more like controling the license of SW here, and wanting to have a good image for their IP) have NOTHING to do with whether SOE cares about their fans or not.

     

    Your personal experience may be that SOE treated you well, and you may find some others that had the similar experience as you had with SOE.  But there are just as many, if not more, players that felt they had been screwed by the treatments from SOE, some even with feelings of betrayal of various incidents with SOE and their games (the NGE being just one of them...)

     

    As for the NGE, LucasArts may had the final say in that incident, but SOE is not without fault.  SOE sold an expansion that contains contents which were deemed USELESS when the changes hit.  How's that for "cares about their fans"?  The link to Jeff Freeman's own admission on NGE should show that they are actually proud of what they created (even though the fans at the time hated it.)  When they put it on the TC, almost everyone who tested the NGE wrote on the forum that NGE was not ready, and they would prefer SOE to keep working on it until the fans can agree it's ready.  And that's not counting those who flat-out wrote that NGE screwed up the Pre-CU/CU gameplay, and do not belong in SWG.  What did SOE do?  went ahead as planned.  Oh, and NGE only had 12 ~ 14 days of TC time, and throughout that two weeks, fans were infuriated by SOE's unwilling to listen, and lack of respect for their fans and customers.  They gave no reason as to why they cannot delay the NGE to continue to work on it, and that why have an expansion out when contents inside will be USELESS when the NGE comes around...

     

    Both companies here are at fault for various issues, so to resolve SOE's involvement while shift the blame solely on LucasArts is just not objectively viewing the shut-down of SWG.

    The reason the NGE did not get delayed was because LA wanted it out by a set date, when the Starter Pack was released

    Lucasarts on the NGE here and here

    GameSpy: A majority of readers expressed that they felt duped into preordering the Trials of Obi-Wan expansion, due to the NGE not being announced till after the game's release. How would you like to respond to this?


    Julio Torres: It was never the intention of anyone at LucasArts or SOE to mislead any of our players, but we have offered a refund for Trials of Obi-Wan to any player that purchased it.

    Julio Torres was also producer for KOTOR and The Force Unleashed and worked for LA (not SOE)

  • ForcanForcan Cypress, CAPosts: 700Member

    Originally posted by superniceguy

    Originally posted by Forcan

    I must interject something here...

     

    LucasArts calling the shots on SWG (more like controling the license of SW here, and wanting to have a good image for their IP) have NOTHING to do with whether SOE cares about their fans or not.

     

    Your personal experience may be that SOE treated you well, and you may find some others that had the similar experience as you had with SOE.  But there are just as many, if not more, players that felt they had been screwed by the treatments from SOE, some even with feelings of betrayal of various incidents with SOE and their games (the NGE being just one of them...)

     

    As for the NGE, LucasArts may had the final say in that incident, but SOE is not without fault.  SOE sold an expansion that contains contents which were deemed USELESS when the changes hit.  How's that for "cares about their fans"?  The link to Jeff Freeman's own admission on NGE should show that they are actually proud of what they created (even though the fans at the time hated it.)  When they put it on the TC, almost everyone who tested the NGE wrote on the forum that NGE was not ready, and they would prefer SOE to keep working on it until the fans can agree it's ready.  And that's not counting those who flat-out wrote that NGE screwed up the Pre-CU/CU gameplay, and do not belong in SWG.  What did SOE do?  went ahead as planned.  Oh, and NGE only had 12 ~ 14 days of TC time, and throughout that two weeks, fans were infuriated by SOE's unwilling to listen, and lack of respect for their fans and customers.  They gave no reason as to why they cannot delay the NGE to continue to work on it, and that why have an expansion out when contents inside will be USELESS when the NGE comes around...

     

    Both companies here are at fault for various issues, so to resolve SOE's involvement while shift the blame solely on LucasArts is just not objectively viewing the shut-down of SWG.

    The reason the NGE did not get delayed was because LA wanted it out by a set date, when the Starter Pack was released

    Lucasarts on the NGE here and here

    GameSpy: A majority of readers expressed that they felt duped into preordering the Trials of Obi-Wan expansion, due to the NGE not being announced till after the game's release. How would you like to respond to this?


    Julio Torres: It was never the intention of anyone at LucasArts or SOE to mislead any of our players, but we have offered a refund for Trials of Obi-Wan to any player that purchased it.

    Julio Torres was also producer for KOTOR and The Force Unleashed and worked for LA (not SOE)

     

    Even so, SOE could've said to their fan that due to licensing with LucasArts, they cannot delay the release, which would help the players and fans to understand their position.  That was not the case.  SOE was silent on this issue.  SOE may not be able to say anything since they may be violating their licensing contract with LucasArts.  But they made no attempt to listen to the players during that two weeks of NGE on TC.

     

    As for Julio Torres's answer to Trials of Obi-Wan expansion incident, that still did not explain the issue behind SOE's "commitment" to continue to improve the CU while developing NGE in-house (as pointed out by Jeff Freeman).  Also, as you pointed out Julio Torres was working for LucasArts, so what he said has to reflect LucasArts, but what about SOE's point of view? 

     

    So like I said, BOTH company are at fault (in NGE, and in shutting down SWG), and your premise of SOE cares about their fan is questionable.

     

    Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR

    Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Forcan

    Originally posted by superniceguy


    Originally posted by Forcan

    I must interject something here...

     

    LucasArts calling the shots on SWG (more like controling the license of SW here, and wanting to have a good image for their IP) have NOTHING to do with whether SOE cares about their fans or not.

     

    Your personal experience may be that SOE treated you well, and you may find some others that had the similar experience as you had with SOE.  But there are just as many, if not more, players that felt they had been screwed by the treatments from SOE, some even with feelings of betrayal of various incidents with SOE and their games (the NGE being just one of them...)

     

    As for the NGE, LucasArts may had the final say in that incident, but SOE is not without fault.  SOE sold an expansion that contains contents which were deemed USELESS when the changes hit.  How's that for "cares about their fans"?  The link to Jeff Freeman's own admission on NGE should show that they are actually proud of what they created (even though the fans at the time hated it.)  When they put it on the TC, almost everyone who tested the NGE wrote on the forum that NGE was not ready, and they would prefer SOE to keep working on it until the fans can agree it's ready.  And that's not counting those who flat-out wrote that NGE screwed up the Pre-CU/CU gameplay, and do not belong in SWG.  What did SOE do?  went ahead as planned.  Oh, and NGE only had 12 ~ 14 days of TC time, and throughout that two weeks, fans were infuriated by SOE's unwilling to listen, and lack of respect for their fans and customers.  They gave no reason as to why they cannot delay the NGE to continue to work on it, and that why have an expansion out when contents inside will be USELESS when the NGE comes around...

     

    Both companies here are at fault for various issues, so to resolve SOE's involvement while shift the blame solely on LucasArts is just not objectively viewing the shut-down of SWG.

    The reason the NGE did not get delayed was because LA wanted it out by a set date, when the Starter Pack was released

    Lucasarts on the NGE here and here

    GameSpy: A majority of readers expressed that they felt duped into preordering the Trials of Obi-Wan expansion, due to the NGE not being announced till after the game's release. How would you like to respond to this?


    Julio Torres: It was never the intention of anyone at LucasArts or SOE to mislead any of our players, but we have offered a refund for Trials of Obi-Wan to any player that purchased it.

    Julio Torres was also producer for KOTOR and The Force Unleashed and worked for LA (not SOE)

     

    Even so, SOE could've said to their fan that due to licensing with LucasArts, they cannot delay the release, which would help the players and fans to understand their position.  That was not the case.  SOE was silent on this issue.  SOE may not be able to say anything since they may be violating their licensing contract with LucasArts.  But they made no attempt to listen to the players during that two weeks of NGE on TC.

     

    As for Julio Torres's answer to Trials of Obi-Wan expansion incident, that still did not explain the issue behind SOE's "commitment" to continue to improve the CU while developing NGE in-house (as pointed out by Jeff Freeman).  Also, as you pointed out Julio Torres was working for LucasArts, so what he said has to reflect LucasArts, but what about SOE's point of view? 

     

    So like I said, BOTH company are at fault (in NGE, and in shutting down SWG), and your premise of SOE cares about their fan is questionable.

     

    SOE stayed silent no doubt due to confidentiality agreements with LA. If they could say stuff they would say stuff. The fact of SOE not listening is BS, they fact they did not do anything was because their hands were tied with LA. Tiggs (and probably other staff too) lost their jobs from trying to "save the day"

    Julio Torres was not just speaking on behlaf of LA, but SOE as well. He said "It was never the intention of anyone at LucasArts or SOE...."

    Why would Julio Torres keep publicy talking about the NGE when it was to do with SOE? He knew the reaction of the NGE as in the interviews said that people would return once got over the shock. If it was SOEs brainchild he would have gotten Smedley to go discuss it instead

    SOE being responsible for it, and it being BOTH companies is questonable, but them caring is only questionable because that iwa what you want to believe and the whole truth will never be known because of confidentiality agreements. You will never see EA save a game from closure (they will shut the game down at the first opportunity) or probably any other company for that matter.

  • teakboisteakbois Parlin, NJPosts: 2,154Member

    Originally posted by GMan3

    Originally posted by TUX426


    Originally posted by William12

    Do any of you LA fan  boys really believe SOE could design and code and implement the NGE without lucas arts wanting them to ?   

    I hope some of you realize how a license deal works for games because like SWTOR any and all changes that effect the star wars lore/game go through or from Lucas Arts a company that over the years has proven they care about money first.   LA gets to hide in the backround and let SOE take all the heat for years just like bioware now is taking all the heat for swtor yet LA is responsible for everything in that game including releasing it 6 months early.

    Jeff Freeman, an SOE employee VERY actively involved in the NGE, even called the "father" of the NGE, confirmed long ago that the NGE was SOE's idea, LA simply approved it. Any other theory you may have on it is false.

    I urge you to read this link if you haven't.

        Interesting read.  Really puts an end to the "George made them do it!" tinfoil hat crowd.  Then again, that crowd will just say something along the lines of "George made him post it!".

    However Freeman wasnt looking for alternatives just on his own.  It was his job to seek out alternatives.  So while the mechanics of the NGE may have been his, the concept of having a NGE was certainly not his.  And this comes from Raph Koster who said the NGE was NOT Freeman's initiative.

     

    Anti-SoE will jump on whatever they can to believe that SoE was at full fault.

  • teakboisteakbois Parlin, NJPosts: 2,154Member

    Originally posted by Forcan

     

     

    As for the NGE, LucasArts may had the final say in that incident, but SOE is not without fault.  SOE sold an expansion that contains contents which were deemed USELESS when the changes hit.  How's that for "cares about their fans"?  The link to Jeff Freeman's own admission on NGE should show that they are actually proud of what they created (even though the fans at the time hated it.)  When they put it on the TC, almost everyone who tested the NGE wrote on the forum that NGE was not ready, and they would prefer SOE to keep working on it until the fans can agree it's ready.  And that's not counting those who flat-out wrote that NGE screwed up the Pre-CU/CU gameplay, and do not belong in SWG.  What did SOE do?  went ahead as planned.  Oh, and NGE only had 12 ~ 14 days of TC time, and throughout that two weeks, fans were infuriated by SOE's unwilling to listen, and lack of respect for their fans and customers.  They gave no reason as to why they cannot delay the NGE to continue to work on it, and that why have an expansion out when contents inside will be USELESS when the NGE comes around...

     

    Yet you make an enormously huge assumption that SoE had a choice.

    And why shouldnt programmers be proud of something they worked hard on on a tight timeline?  Freeman's role in the NGE was the combat, and guess what, the combat WAS better (subjective, but the combat wasnt the reason why the NGE killed SWG).  The other crap about the NGE that was why it sucked?  Not Freeman's doing.  He wasnt responsible for the iconic class bullshit that was the reason why the NGE was so hated.

  • teakboisteakbois Parlin, NJPosts: 2,154Member

    Originally posted by TUX426

    Just to provide further proof that SOE doesn't care about their customers, I offer evidence from their latest debacle...the ProSiebenSat.1 deal :)

    http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=515195 <--- SOE's own forums even!

    And here for player reaction

    http://eq2wire.com/2012/02/23/soe-eq2-community-team-deletes-100s-of-posts-bans-dozens-over-prosieben-feedback/

    Yet...there will always be the fools who follow and defend them, despite everything they do.

    Maybe you should go look at Smedley's twitter before posting on this topic....

     

  • William12William12 Saint paul, MNPosts: 680Member

    Originally posted by teakbois

    Originally posted by GMan3


    Originally posted by TUX426


    Originally posted by William12

    Do any of you LA fan  boys really believe SOE could design and code and implement the NGE without lucas arts wanting them to ?   

    I hope some of you realize how a license deal works for games because like SWTOR any and all changes that effect the star wars lore/game go through or from Lucas Arts a company that over the years has proven they care about money first.   LA gets to hide in the backround and let SOE take all the heat for years just like bioware now is taking all the heat for swtor yet LA is responsible for everything in that game including releasing it 6 months early.

    Jeff Freeman, an SOE employee VERY actively involved in the NGE, even called the "father" of the NGE, confirmed long ago that the NGE was SOE's idea, LA simply approved it. Any other theory you may have on it is false.

    I urge you to read this link if you haven't.

        Interesting read.  Really puts an end to the "George made them do it!" tinfoil hat crowd.  Then again, that crowd will just say something along the lines of "George made him post it!".

    However Freeman wasnt looking for alternatives just on his own.  It was his job to seek out alternatives.  So while the mechanics of the NGE may have been his, the concept of having a NGE was certainly not his.  And this comes from Raph Koster who said the NGE was NOT Freeman's initiative.

     

    Anti-SoE will jump on whatever they can to believe that SoE was at full fault.

    That is what people do not get.  The IDEA around the NGE wasnt SOE it was Lucas Arts SOE did what they were TOLD to do buy a company that had the right to tell them what to do based on the contract they SIGNED to use the star wars IP.

  • JakardJakard 98390, WAPosts: 415Member

    I think a lot of the hate that SOE has been given over the years is unwarranted. They're not perfect and have made some major mistakes over the years but I do think they are a company that cares about it's fan base. It's just too bad that you had the SWG fiasco and maybe they should have put more resources into games like Vanguard: Saga of Heroes but they could have easily (and probably should have) killed that game off a long time ago but they haven't. I think that says something about them.

  • TUX426TUX426 Madison, WIPosts: 1,907Member

    Originally posted by teakbois

    Originally posted by TUX426

    Just to provide further proof that SOE doesn't care about their customers, I offer evidence from their latest debacle...the ProSiebenSat.1 deal :)

    http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=515195 <--- SOE's own forums even!

    And here for player reaction

    http://eq2wire.com/2012/02/23/soe-eq2-community-team-deletes-100s-of-posts-bans-dozens-over-prosieben-feedback/

    Yet...there will always be the fools who follow and defend them, despite everything they do.

    Maybe you should go look at Smedley's twitter before posting on this topic....

     

    The one where he said they were listening? Why? He lies more than anyone at SOE. Remember his claim that there would be MONTHLY content update for DCUO because "that's what people paying a sub deserve"?

    Smedley will say anything. I don't believe a word the man types.

  • ForcanForcan Cypress, CAPosts: 700Member

    Originally posted by superniceguy

    Originally posted by Forcan


    Originally posted by superniceguy


    Originally posted by Forcan

    I must interject something here...

     

    LucasArts calling the shots on SWG (more like controling the license of SW here, and wanting to have a good image for their IP) have NOTHING to do with whether SOE cares about their fans or not.

     

    Your personal experience may be that SOE treated you well, and you may find some others that had the similar experience as you had with SOE.  But there are just as many, if not more, players that felt they had been screwed by the treatments from SOE, some even with feelings of betrayal of various incidents with SOE and their games (the NGE being just one of them...)

     

    As for the NGE, LucasArts may had the final say in that incident, but SOE is not without fault.  SOE sold an expansion that contains contents which were deemed USELESS when the changes hit.  How's that for "cares about their fans"?  The link to Jeff Freeman's own admission on NGE should show that they are actually proud of what they created (even though the fans at the time hated it.)  When they put it on the TC, almost everyone who tested the NGE wrote on the forum that NGE was not ready, and they would prefer SOE to keep working on it until the fans can agree it's ready.  And that's not counting those who flat-out wrote that NGE screwed up the Pre-CU/CU gameplay, and do not belong in SWG.  What did SOE do?  went ahead as planned.  Oh, and NGE only had 12 ~ 14 days of TC time, and throughout that two weeks, fans were infuriated by SOE's unwilling to listen, and lack of respect for their fans and customers.  They gave no reason as to why they cannot delay the NGE to continue to work on it, and that why have an expansion out when contents inside will be USELESS when the NGE comes around...

     

    Both companies here are at fault for various issues, so to resolve SOE's involvement while shift the blame solely on LucasArts is just not objectively viewing the shut-down of SWG.

    The reason the NGE did not get delayed was because LA wanted it out by a set date, when the Starter Pack was released

    Lucasarts on the NGE here and here

    GameSpy: A majority of readers expressed that they felt duped into preordering the Trials of Obi-Wan expansion, due to the NGE not being announced till after the game's release. How would you like to respond to this?


    Julio Torres: It was never the intention of anyone at LucasArts or SOE to mislead any of our players, but we have offered a refund for Trials of Obi-Wan to any player that purchased it.

    Julio Torres was also producer for KOTOR and The Force Unleashed and worked for LA (not SOE)

     

    Even so, SOE could've said to their fan that due to licensing with LucasArts, they cannot delay the release, which would help the players and fans to understand their position.  That was not the case.  SOE was silent on this issue.  SOE may not be able to say anything since they may be violating their licensing contract with LucasArts.  But they made no attempt to listen to the players during that two weeks of NGE on TC.

     

    As for Julio Torres's answer to Trials of Obi-Wan expansion incident, that still did not explain the issue behind SOE's "commitment" to continue to improve the CU while developing NGE in-house (as pointed out by Jeff Freeman).  Also, as you pointed out Julio Torres was working for LucasArts, so what he said has to reflect LucasArts, but what about SOE's point of view? 

     

    So like I said, BOTH company are at fault (in NGE, and in shutting down SWG), and your premise of SOE cares about their fan is questionable.

     

    SOE stayed silent no doubt due to confidentiality agreements with LA. If they could say stuff they would say stuff. The fact of SOE not listening is BS, they fact they did not do anything was because their hands were tied with LA. Tiggs (and probably other staff too) lost their jobs from trying to "save the day"

    There's no doubt that some staffs lost their jobs trying to give players/fans a voice in the company, but the end result is that nothing they did represent the company as a whole.  Consider this:  Tiggs lost her job defending the players/fans, then what does it say about SOE as a company?

    Julio Torres was not just speaking on behlaf of LA, but SOE as well. He said "It was never the intention of anyone at LucasArts or SOE...."

    Why would Julio Torres keep publicy talking about the NGE when it was to do with SOE? He knew the reaction of the NGE as in the interviews said that people would return once got over the shock. If it was SOEs brainchild he would have gotten Smedley to go discuss it instead

    Simply put, Julio Torres is doing the PR thing since SWG was not getting the number of subs for what they thought should have for a Star Wars MMORPG.  Again, what he said does not change the fact that while SOE had said they are commited to continue to improve the CU while developing NGE in-house.  Why would you, as a company, creating something that would replace the current system and at the same time telling your fan you are commited to continue to improve the current system?

    SOE being responsible for it, and it being BOTH companies is questonable, but them caring is only questionable because that iwa what you want to believe and the whole truth will never be known because of confidentiality agreements. You will never see EA save a game from closure (they will shut the game down at the first opportunity) or probably any other company for that matter.

    How is it questionable when both companies involved here had mentioned support for SWG (LucasArts came out and mentioned that BOTH company found it to be not financial viable to continue SWG.)  If you believe when Julio Torres speaking for both LA and SOE in his statement, then you should believe LA's statements and Smedley's when they said the decision to shut down is made mutually by both companies.

    Even though the article you quoted mentioned licensing is the main issue, it still doesn't say whether SOE is actively trying to continue that license.  All we can do is speculate, and you can speculate based on SOE's action in keep other games alive, while I can speculate on both companies being unwilling to continue for issues of not being financial viable and brings bad image to both companies due to the history of the game in the industry.  Like you said, we may never know the truth, but I won't just give SOE a free ride because they made good decisions on some games but screwed up for other games.

    In my view, the only thing here is who may be taking the bigger blame, but to say SOE "cares about their fans" based on personal experience does not paint an objective picture to the whole event.

     

    You may experience customer services from SOE differently than others, and I can accept it that your opinion is that SOE "cares about their fans".  But I do disagree with your opinion, hence my interjection, and trying to be as objective as I can.

     

    Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR

    Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)

  • GolelornGolelorn Hiding From Social Media Peeping Toms, ALPosts: 1,099Member Uncommon

    SOE cares about fans? Since when? What a load of crap.

  • TUX426TUX426 Madison, WIPosts: 1,907Member

    Originally posted by Jakard

    I think a lot of the hate that SOE has been given over the years is unwarranted. They're not perfect and have made some major mistakes over the years but I do think they are a company that cares about it's fan base. It's just too bad that you had the SWG fiasco and maybe they should have put more resources into games like Vanguard: Saga of Heroes but they could have easily (and probably should have) killed that game off a long time ago but they haven't. I think that says something about them.

    They've EARNED their reputation.



    To suggest otherwise is ignorant.

This discussion has been closed.