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General: Credit Where Credit's Due

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,596MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

Sometimes we who are fans of MMOs are harsh task masters, often berating developers and every game system that are brought to our attention. It's often unfair when we blithely overlook what actually does work. In today's Player Perspectives, we take a look at precisely that. See what you think and then leave us your thoughts.

Which isn’t to say we shouldn’t critique our games, of course; most of us are smarter than average, if the research can be believed, and smarter than average people tend to ask more questions and be less satisfied with the status quo. Player feedback can be an extremely valuable tool when games companies know how to use it. Some do, some don’t, but this is a fairly new industry and we’re all still learning as we go, games companies included. I doubt we’ll be seeing another NGE anytime soon, for instance. (Famous last words…)

Read more of Isabelle Parsley's Player Perspectives: Credit Where Credit's Due.


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Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

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Comments

  • 77lolmac7777lolmac77 Herp Derp, PAPosts: 496Member
    I still think Runescape gets lost in the whole MMO spectrum. I dont know about anyone else but that was the first MMO I played and it was very much like EVE with the Wilderness comparing to 0.0 space.

    Obviously it doesnt compare well to newer titles but I think people overlook Runescape and point to WoW as the game that made MMOs popular when Id be willing to bet a lot o peoples first MMO was Runescape
  • ColdrenColdren Nowhereville, TNPosts: 456Member Uncommon

    I'd also add props to UO for not only being one of the few true sandbox games, but also one of the first and still running. The skill system, housing, and open nature of the world, amplified by the deep complexity and sheer volume of content after almost 15 years is truly awesome.

    Also, props to the Trion team for Rift. People complain it doesn't do much "new", but what they do do is pay attention to their community, push out quality content at an astounding rate, and do their best to keep the game as fresh and interesting as a theme park can be, and not affraid to try new things like the moblie elements of the game or in game marraiges.

  • WicoaWicoa LondonPosts: 1,602Member Uncommon

    DAOC's Trio rvr system with individual classes has never been matched EVER.  Im hoping in my life theres a game as exciting fun and community orientated as it.

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member

    I REFUSE to give "props" to companies whom don't care about the story/world they're building, and are MORE interested in the bottom dollar. That is post EA-Consumed Blizzard & Post EA-Consumed Bioware. WoW cataclysm & beyond i'm told (since i don't play WoW) & SWTOR are only after money, and spit on their players on a daily basis.

     

    Both EA-Controled Blizzard & Bioware continue to dilute the MMO market with more backwards thinking products that, again, are only "money grabs", and not ACTUAL advancement within the genre of MMOs. The Companion system is simply a more thought out version of STO's bridge officer system, and other games also did VERY similar systems but didn't flesh them out as far as EA-Bioware took them.

    However, at the end of the day you have to ask yourself "Does this new Companion system from Bioware enhance, or detract, from the ACTUAL game as a whole? Is it only another rat-maze for me to burn my hours away without actually doing much for the game in the long run?". Their companion system deserves ZERO props, I am sorry to say :(.

     

    With all of that being said, where "props" is due is when indie companies like MoJang (Minecraft) create games that are targeted at the PLAYERS and not their WALLETS. However, SOE has "vowed" to turn their path around from the "WoW-Cloning", and have "promised" to bring a new era in gaming again with EQ:Next & Planetside 2. Only time will tell with SOE though considering how badly they've butchered their own products for money only to hurt their reputation in the long run.

    I'm told that after SOE was turned down for the 6th time for a new unique IP to bring into MMO form they decided a new path was required.

     

     

    "Props" are due when it's worth giving out. SWTOR deserves none, but more games are on the horizon to show us whether or not the term "Where props are due..." will be used ever again for the good OR the bad.

     

    -Faded

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,185Member Uncommon

    Well without anything approaching a sandbox game, this again will be a mediocre year for MMO's.  The cowards who develop MMO's these days don't deserve any praise.

    I have to agree the character development in Asheron's Call was the best I have seen in an MMO.  Too bad the 2nd version of that game deviated from it.

    Eve could use the companion system for it's resource gathering, right now it is mostly botted, which the developers conveniently ignore.

    There are good things in many of these games, if only someone would put them all together into one game.

  • VikingGamerVikingGamer Nowhere, TXPosts: 1,347Member Uncommon

    isn't Blizzard owned by Activision?

    All die, so die well.

  • DeathofsageDeathofsage Winston, PAPosts: 998Member

    In this thread giving Fanboy love to FFXI. They deserve credit for sticking to their guns about PVP not mattering worth a damn which meant that PVP never once got in PVE's way. There were occasional nerfs/adjustments but they were never about QQ.

    Also giving love to FFXI for having the best class system ever. The advantage, btw, to having to level certain subjobs is that sometimes--just sometimes--you discovered that you really really liked a job and the Ninja you hated at 12 became your next 75.

    It's funny how FFXI (I didn't play EQ, sorry) never felt incomplete and didn't when I returned last year (I left again because the changes made the game super-casual). I'm sure fans of other games like EQ, RS, etc will say the same thing. It might not have been loaded down with features but it never felt like anything was missing. Our innovation in 10 years has been all about graphics it seems while sacrificing functions that thw WoW crop doesn't understand the appeal of, like player housing, guild housing, item dyes (even though I've never dyed an item in any game).

    Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
    12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
    Placing bets Blizzard's "Titan" will be a wow-clone.

  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,556Member Uncommon
    Great list I agree on all accounts. Perma durability loss was not my favorite thing though. However swg housing was great. I spent more time exploring checking out others homes in remote locations than combat lol. The enviro graphics are still awe inspiring to this day. Im also really enjoying companions in swtor.

    Hilarious how she writes a positive article and all the angry bitter posters come out of the woodwork haha.
  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member

    A lot of what's said on the web could be described as hyper text mark-down language - that's what people add to it. ; )

    I'll enjoy GW2, but also excited to see how (& eventually trying EvE) Traveller AR, Pathfinder, Infinity all pan out. Props to the devs reaching for the stars.

  • AcmegamerAcmegamer Selah, WAPosts: 337Member

    On a less controversial note, I want to give the LOTRO world-builders props for their amazing landscapes. I remember logging into the beta, looking at the sun on the water, the clouds above my head and the mountains in the distance and being awed. LOTRO still remains the best-looking MMO I’ve played when it comes to the environment, even though there are games out there that do some elements better. -  Isabelle Parsely

     

      Agree with all your other points, but I wanted to reply about this one in particular. :) LOTRO without a doubt in my opinion has got to be the most beautifully painted worlds that I've ever had the pleasure of logging into. Even with it getting long in the tooth and the fact that other games do render some enviroment elements better now, still over all no one does it better.

     

       I wish I could get used to how the UI interaction works in DDO, just so I can go and explore that world and see the various areas. Sadly the UI interaction with movement and the mouse just drives me absolutely bonkers. I even tried again this morning just because I can't really force myself to log into SWTOR to finish off the last bit of my subscription time. Just can't do DDO's movement/mouse interface to check out that landscape. :(

     

     I hope some day to see Turbine do a new mmo-rpg that has that same level of game world immersion. Just amazing stuff. To bad the pvp system lacks so much, for me to get my pvp fix I need to go elsewhere.

  • TyvolusNextTyvolusNext Gimpy, NVPosts: 192Member

    Looks like the staff here has brainstormed a new way to throw some more praise at EA/bioware's single player RPG, SWTOR.  Got to give them credit though, disguising it in what appears to be a general article praising a few different games.   This time they want us to know, SWTOR deserves credit for bringing us COMPANIONS...ok, in a single player RPG that came out 20 years ago this might be worthy of some praise -- but in a supposed AAA MMO, released in 2012 ???  you should be adventuring with REAL LIFE COMPANIONS -- you know, your guildmates, random strangers, other players, friends etc.  My advice to the staff ?  give yourselves a well deserved rest from pushing this flawed "MMO."  you earned your pay, EA/bioware owes you and then some.

     

     

  • ScalebaneScalebane La Junta, COPosts: 2,225Member

    Originally posted by VikingGamer

    isn't Blizzard owned by Activision?

    Vivendi owns Blizzard.

    Vivendi bought Activision.

    Vivendi owns both Blizzard and Activision.

    Blizzard does not own Activision and Activision does not own Blizzard.

     

    so yeah its like this i suppose

    Vivendi owns Activision Blizzard. Activision runs the merged company known as Activision Blizzard(despite Vivendi owning the company). Blizzard is its own publishing brand and answers to the Vivendi branch of Activision Blizzard. Blizzard in itself is largely autonomous and is not run by Activision Blizzard, only owned by Activision Blizzard.



    Blizzard accounts for nearly 30% of Activision Blizzard's revenue...

    posted from someone else^

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    "The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
    - Lewis Thomas

  • ScalebaneScalebane La Junta, COPosts: 2,225Member

    Originally posted by TyvolusNext

    Looks like the staff here has brainstormed a new way to throw some more praise at EA/bioware's single player RPG, SWTOR.  Got to give them credit though, disguising it in what appears to be a general article praising a few different games.   This time they want us to know, SWTOR deserves credit for bringing us COMPANIONS...ok, in a single player RPG that came out 20 years ago this might be worthy of some praise -- but in a supposed AAA MMO, released in 2012 ???  you should be adventuring with REAL LIFE COMPANIONS -- you know, your guildmates, random strangers, other players, friends etc.  My advice to the staff ?  give yourselves a well deserved rest from pushing this flawed "MMO."  you earned your pay, EA/bioware owes you and then some.

     

     

    i knew when i went to read this article Swtor would be in it, funny i'll have to look again but i didn't see warcraft mentioned..anyways it was a good read otherwise.

    as for the topic i do go into the games i beta test and or play and enjoy them for what they are, i have my complaints but i understand how hard it is to do what these people do.

    image

    "The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
    - Lewis Thomas

  • spaceportspaceport CatalunyaPosts: 405Member

    What's the point of having npc companions in a freaking MMORPG

     

    Are people really that autistic, who have no guild, no friends in-game, and so socially retarded that they can't even have a conversation?

     

    However, i have to give credit when it's deserved, thanks to SWTOR we will probably never see so much budget wasted in VOs, companions and more crappy single player features, that game is loosing subs even faster than WAR, you guys still gave it a 8.7/10 though, there goes all your credibility, another high rated turd!

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    "Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
    otacu

  • MMOarQQMMOarQQ BoogalululuPosts: 636Member

    These aren't charity workers or brave, life-saving heroes.

    I pay my "props" in cash.

     

    Let's not fool ourselves here. It's all about dollar signs.

  • PrecusorPrecusor PalmaPosts: 4,733Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by VikingGamer

    isn't Blizzard owned by Activision?

    The French owns them.

  • TyvolusNextTyvolusNext Gimpy, NVPosts: 192Member

    Originally posted by Scalebane

    Originally posted by TyvolusNext

    Looks like the staff here has brainstormed a new way to throw some more praise at EA/bioware's single player RPG, SWTOR.  Got to give them credit though, disguising it in what appears to be a general article praising a few different games.   This time they want us to know, SWTOR deserves credit for bringing us COMPANIONS...ok, in a single player RPG that came out 20 years ago this might be worthy of some praise -- but in a supposed AAA MMO, released in 2012 ???  you should be adventuring with REAL LIFE COMPANIONS -- you know, your guildmates, random strangers, other players, friends etc.  My advice to the staff ?  give yourselves a well deserved rest from pushing this flawed "MMO."  you earned your pay, EA/bioware owes you and then some.

     

     

    i knew when i went to read this article Swtor would be in it, funny i'll have to look again but i didn't see warcraft mentioned..anyways it was a good read otherwise.

    as for the topic i do go into the games i beta test and or play and enjoy them for what they are, i have my complaints but i understand how hard it is to do what these people do.


     

    "anyways it was a good read otherwise" 

     

    agreed. 

  • soulmirrorsoulmirror Jax, FLPosts: 112Member

    Making a game easier to solo in an MMORPG is not an accomplishment.

     

    Sharding to the point where you see no other players is not an accomplishment.

     

     A lot of this blog is right on point.  However, one of the enemies of the modern MMO is the Internet itself....  In modern day any game receiving any amount of hype has on Release day, a walkthru guide and 17 websites all posting how to build your character, run those quests and to get that character to XXX level the fastest.  That or it was subject to a massively long and many peopled "Beta", even further watering down the release of the game as anyone with a moderately good system has run at least one character to max level before release. 

    The last killer of the modern MMO is the gaming companies themselves, their focus is on the $$$, not the game.  There are so many things from games past that were great and deserving of being reused in a modern AAA MMORPG.  However, that will never happen as that idea or item comes from a game that was not a "success" or can not be EASILY accessed by everyone playing the game.  The mantra of today's games are please the masses, make it easy and make sure it gives instant gratification and never build a game with have and have nots, it is just not conducive to the bottom line.  (unless you can spend some $$$ in a RMT, then you can be a have also.)

     

    I for one, would like to walk before I run in an MMO. Any profession should be playable in an MMO, not just hack and slash but  crafting, exploring, invention, banditry, merchant, warrior, thief or layabout.

    If you add a feature in a game, do not half bake it and put it in to appease people, flesh it out or forget it at release.  Make it an expansion later on.

    Guild halls and housing are a great addition to a game

    Overall story lines are great, they can exist in a sandbox, just build more into the game than follow the carrot.

    The best items in the game should  either come from crafting or world events, preferably both, and they should be rare.

    The last thing is dont drop gamers into a predefined box as many companies have done today.  Make your game as diverse as possible, but do not make it too easy.  (Most)Gamers love to be different from each other, gamers love to see Firsts especially with their name or guild highlighted. Gamers love to be  challenged.(Most)

  • methosxmethosx Minneapolis, MNPosts: 7Member

    Originally posted by MMOarQQ

    These aren't charity workers or brave, life-saving heroes.

    I pay my "props" in cash.

    Let's not fool ourselves here. It's all about dollar signs.

    Yes, because we don't pay doctors either... Obviously you don't understand what props means.



     

     

  • methosxmethosx Minneapolis, MNPosts: 7Member

    Hi, Isabelle.

    Thanks for the great article! It is a well-needed breath of fresh air.

    I agree with all your points, especially the indie-developers one. There are some fantastic gems out there. They are all labors of love that are created and maintained by people who really love and are invested in what they do. The larger a company/studio gets, the harder it is to maintain control. Indies are able to better express their focused vision than, say, a larger studio owned by a large game company. I can appreciate this. I am willing to give them some money and some of my time in order to experience their visions. A Tale in the Desert is a great example - narrowly focused yet incredibly complex. A very good experience if you are willing to give it some of your time.

  • HerodesHerodes DannenbergPosts: 1,494Member

    In my opinion what is less required in an RPG an more required in a text about an upcoming MMO (related to the hype-level):

    Balance

    edit: mmh, this sounds kinda stupid. What I was trying to say: Don´t give up diversity to support balance.

  • logan400klogan400k Owings Mills, MDPosts: 68Member Uncommon

    I personaly loved SWG's Usage XP. I got experience when people used my stuff. That is kind of cool but I doubt its something we will ever see again, at least on a large scale.

    I agree in general with all of the props, but want to address those who feel WoW got slighted. WoW is evolutionary, whether we like the direction of the evolution, that is another story. Give them props for that, but they made a stable game capable of sustaining long term growth because it had a broad appeal. Its fast food and that is not a bad thing, but its not revolutionary and its not really breaking from the mold.  They made a better burger. They added some chicken nuggets. Good, but not "holy crow mind blowing".

    SWTOR is generally the same way, they made some small evolutionary steps and only time if the larger ones forge a revolution or its an evolutionary dead end.

    Just My 2 Lunars

  • XoloXXoloX Ahrensburg, AKPosts: 83Member



    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    The cowards who develop MMO's these days don't deserve any praise.

     






     

    This... (Sorry for snipping, the other thoughts I cut had a point, too, but...)

    In all these shiny, polished, well-advertised, new toys out there, there is nothing new. Noone daring a different approach (try recalling all screams as soon as someone says "permadeath" *snickers*). (Almost) Everything new looks nicely predigested, "let's try not to oversteer in the learning curve, crew". There's hardly anything out there (or mentioned in this article, sorry...) that's truely new, it was done before. Only, it didn't sell before.

    Personally, I'm looking forward to two to three upcoming titles - I keep my innovational expectations low, though.



     


    ...activating morph from silent reader to active poster...
    ...pending...
    ...pending...
    ...pending...

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Kansas City, MOPosts: 4,844Member

    Originally posted by 77lolmac77

    I still think Runescape gets lost in the whole MMO spectrum. I dont know about anyone else but that was the first MMO I played and it was very much like EVE with the Wilderness comparing to 0.0 space.



    Obviously it doesnt compare well to newer titles but I think people overlook Runescape and point to WoW as the game that made MMOs popular when Id be willing to bet a lot o peoples first MMO was Runescape

     

    Runescape is STILL one of my top five favorite MMOs.  I agree....it's underrated.

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Kansas City, MOPosts: 4,844Member

    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    I REFUSE to give "props" to companies whom don't care about the story/world they're building, and are MORE interested in the bottom dollar. That is post EA-Consumed Blizzard & Post EA-Consumed Bioware. WoW cataclysm & beyond i'm told (since i don't play WoW) & SWTOR are only after money, and spit on their players on a daily basis.

     

    Both EA-Controled Blizzard & Bioware continue to dilute the MMO market with more backwards thinking products that, again, are only "money grabs", and not ACTUAL advancement within the genre of MMOs. The Companion system is simply a more thought out version of STO's bridge officer system, and other games also did VERY similar systems but didn't flesh them out as far as EA-Bioware took them.

    However, at the end of the day you have to ask yourself "Does this new Companion system from Bioware enhance, or detract, from the ACTUAL game as a whole? Is it only another rat-maze for me to burn my hours away without actually doing much for the game in the long run?". Their companion system deserves ZERO props, I am sorry to say :(.

     

    With all of that being said, where "props" is due is when indie companies like MoJang (Minecraft) create games that are targeted at the PLAYERS and not their WALLETS. However, SOE has "vowed" to turn their path around from the "WoW-Cloning", and have "promised" to bring a new era in gaming again with EQ:Next & Planetside 2. Only time will tell with SOE though considering how badly they've butchered their own products for money only to hurt their reputation in the long run.

    I'm told that after SOE was turned down for the 6th time for a new unique IP to bring into MMO form they decided a new path was required.

     

     

    "Props" are due when it's worth giving out. SWTOR deserves none, but more games are on the horizon to show us whether or not the term "Where props are due..." will be used ever again for the good OR the bad.

     

    -Faded

     

    All in all, good read, except EA doesn't own Blizzard, but rather Bioware.  So you got half of that right, I guess.

     

    I don't think there's a remarkable amount of things in MMOs that deserve props, that's for sure.  And I certainly understand what you said about the companion system. Oy.

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

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