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Guild Wars 2: A New Breed of MMORPG?

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  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,200Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Angier2758



    Originally posted by Torvaldr



    One thing I've re-learned from this thread is, like politics and religion, everyone has their own definition of makes up a themepark or sandbox.

    I never played DAoC so I can't comment on pre-defined 3 faction PvP.  I can say that what made Lineage PvP great for me was having a myriad of player defined factions (guilds and alliances made the factions) and competition for resources (bosses, drops, castle gated dungeons, etc).  There could also be consequences for losing pvp battles.

    I've played GW1 PvP and it was fun, but it certainly wasn't anywhere near the same kind of PvP that happened in first generation games like UO and Lineage.   It's more like e-sport pvp which I think of more like pong matches, really complex pong matches, but inconsequential pizza slice activities none the less.  I'm hoping there will be more consequence and depth to GW2 pvp than we saw in GW1.

    I see this game as genre evolution more than genre revolution.  I'm still going to play it, and it will be fun. I don't need a gaming revolution to have fun.






     

    3 sided PVP is good and bad.... remember how players are; they will choose the easier route.  In DAoC sometimes the weaker sides would join forces.... sometimes they'd reroll to the more populated side and make things worse... and lastly... the weaker of the two weaker sides would actually be dogpiled.

     

    The DAoC vets don't want to admit it... but it wasn't always great with 3 sided pvp.  A lot of the time one side was the "Green Party" while the dems and reps fought it out.

    That's interesting.  That happened a lot in Lineage, but since the factions were loosely based on alliances they crumbled and were reformed as power shifted.  When any one alliance got too strong it made the entire server uncomfortable and even other players within the alliance.  Control would disintigrate and the factions would split off.  The power balance was self-correcting to a large degree.

    It will be interesting to watch and see how this plays out in GW2.

    I really do wish there were some sort of consequences as a result of this.

  • Angier2758Angier2758 Mt. Prospect, ILPosts: 1,011Member

    Originally posted by sonoggi

    The people who keep rambling about the game being "overhyped" are really starting to irritate me. If you were hyped before this weekend, and are disappointed after seeing the vids, then you were seriously blind all along. In;fact, unlike TOR, GW2 is getting hyped up by the players who have actually played the game, and who can attest that ANet has actually kept every single promise.



    There are different kinds of hype; WAR, AoC and TOR type hype carried out by blind fanboyism and the devs themselves. And then there is GW2 hype brought on by evident promise keeping.


     

    I want some of whatever he had this morning...

  • Angier2758Angier2758 Mt. Prospect, ILPosts: 1,011Member

    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    Originally posted by Angier2758



    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    One thing I've re-learned from this thread is, like politics and religion, everyone has their own definition of makes up a themepark or sandbox.

    I never played DAoC so I can't comment on pre-defined 3 faction PvP.  I can say that what made Lineage PvP great for me was having a myriad of player defined factions (guilds and alliances made the factions) and competition for resources (bosses, drops, castle gated dungeons, etc).  There could also be consequences for losing pvp battles.

    I've played GW1 PvP and it was fun, but it certainly wasn't anywhere near the same kind of PvP that happened in first generation games like UO and Lineage.   It's more like e-sport pvp which I think of more like pong matches, really complex pong matches, but inconsequential pizza slice activities none the less.  I'm hoping there will be more consequence and depth to GW2 pvp than we saw in GW1.

    I see this game as genre evolution more than genre revolution.  I'm still going to play it, and it will be fun. I don't need a gaming revolution to have fun.






     

    3 sided PVP is good and bad.... remember how players are; they will choose the easier route.  In DAoC sometimes the weaker sides would join forces.... sometimes they'd reroll to the more populated side and make things worse... and lastly... the weaker of the two weaker sides would actually be dogpiled.

     

    The DAoC vets don't want to admit it... but it wasn't always great with 3 sided pvp.  A lot of the time one side was the "Green Party" while the dems and reps fought it out.

    That's interesting.  That happened a lot in Lineage, but since the factions were loosely based on alliances they crumbled and were reformed as power shifted.  When any one alliance got too strong it made the entire server uncomfortable and even other players within the alliance.  Control would disintigrate and the factions would split off.  The power balance was self-correcting to a large degree.

    It will be interesting to watch and see how this plays out in GW2.

    I really do wish there were some sort of consequences as a result of this.


     

    What they should do in G2 is shift the worlds so if one is dominating you move it so its fighting 2 other dominating worlds. 

  • RemainsRemains MalmöPosts: 375Member

    Originally posted by Angier2758 

    What they should do in G2 is shift the worlds so if one is dominating you move it so its fighting 2 other dominating worlds. 

    Thats what they have planned: every 2 weeks the servers are matched up again based on performance.

  • ZeroxinZeroxin LondonPosts: 2,521Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Amaranthar

    Originally posted by sonoggi

    The people who keep rambling about the game being "overhyped" are really starting to irritate me. If you were hyped before this weekend, and are disappointed after seeing the vids, then you were seriously blind all along. In;fact, unlike TOR, GW2 is getting hyped up by the players who have actually played the game, and who can attest that ANet has actually kept every single promise.



    There are different kinds of hype; WAR, AoC and TOR type hype carried out by blind fanboyism and the devs themselves. And then there is GW2 hype brought on by evident promise keeping.

    Is this copied and pasted from some general source for "new" MMO propaganda?

    As to GW2, it's just another evolution of the same ol' same ol'. Just like everything else.


     

    Is this copied and pasted from some general source for "new" MMO anti-propaganda?

    As to your post, it's just another devolution of the same ol' same ol'. Just like everything else.

    This is not a game.

  • rrashintoastrrashintoast Metamora, MIPosts: 26Member Uncommon

    omfg ppl, Sandbox RPG = lots of toys n items n loot and crap to play with on ONE play field, that people can play with similer to a Sandbox.  Now what is allowd rules and PVP wise inside the sandbox is another story, even a GOOD Ultima online server can be ruined by not allowing PVP in areas, and allowing it in the wrong areas.  Its like setting up a DND game.

     

     I think game designers need to go back to their roots, and figure out the best way to emulate pen and paper RPGs better in a virtual world.  The whole using 1-9 for spells, and hitting W to walk forward thing, isnt working.  

    The right click to move deal that UO has, and maybe Diablo, is close.  

     

    Another thing, notice how MMORPGs have basicly replaced peoples need for Quest/Point and click Adventure games?  lol.. you will never see a Kings Quest type game again, cus now everyone can just play an MMO. ;)

     

     

  • PilnkplonkPilnkplonk zagrebPosts: 1,532Member

    Originally posted by Chrisxenon

    ALL ABOARD!

    THE HYPE TRAIN!




     

    http://youtu.be/oqwd6oGFZzE

  • MephsterMephster Tyria, NJPosts: 1,188Member

    Don't know about new breed but it definitely isn't a WoW clone which ofcourse is a good thing.

    Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!

    http://www.grimdawn.com/

  • garrettgarrett Posts: 260MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

    Originally posted by Mephster

    Don't know about new breed but it definitely isn't a WoW clone which ofcourse is a good thing.


     

    You said this exactly right!!

     

     :p 
  • zonzaizonzai Moonmoth, TXPosts: 358Member

    World of Warcraft was an old tired game before it launched.  Not only did it not advance the MMO genre, it prevented it from growing for years.  MMORPG's up until WoW were gradual slow progression of change.  After WoW they became cash clowns (not cows).  The following so-called WoW clones (or WoW clowns) failed because they failed to do the ONLY thing WoW ever did well - appeal to people who didn't play MMO's.  Guild Wars 2 takes a bunch of (but probably not all of) the innovation that WoW's aberrant financial success halted and unleashes it all on gamers at once.

  • acidbloodacidblood melbournePosts: 265Member Uncommon

    Not sure if it will revolutionise the genre (it certainly won't on it's own), but it is a big step in the right direction (i.e. any direction that isn't WoW's)... if MMOs like GW2, TSW and ArchAge can become popular (and profitable) we should, with any luck, at least start to see some diversity in the MMO space, and maybe one day we just might get a look at that 'perfect MMO' everyone seems to be hanging out for. Viva La Revolution.

  • achesomaachesoma Portland, ORPosts: 1,000Member Uncommon

    Article was spot on.  This is why a great quality or revolutionary MMO will never come from a huge corporation like EA.  They have their eye on the prize and focus on creating a superb MMO is lost.  The corporate mind simply can't grasp this.  We've seen that just throwing obscene amounts of money at developers will not create a great game.  I can't help but think what could have become of WAR or SWTOR if they weren't under the greedy iron fist of EA.  Focus on quality first then the money will certainly follow.

    image

  • liadzliadz Campina Grande, AKPosts: 35Member

    I've been reading lots of articles in this site about Guild Wars 2 but until now I don't remember any comment about the soundtrack.

    Since I'm a video-game soundtrack nerd, I'd like to know your opinions on this matter. From the videos I can say that I liked the few things I listened but that was not enough.

    Most MMOs I've played had awful to bearable soundtracks and after less than a week I'd turn them off because they just get old or don't contribute to the mood of the game. Meanwhile, when I'm playing Skyrim, I feel that turning the soundtrack off would lessen the experience. And since the composer is the same, I'm looking forward to it.



     

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  • UnshraUnshra Hanover, MDPosts: 382Member

     

    Guild Wars 2 is far from a new breed of MMORPG's, it is more like the combination of several commonsense ideas to create a single theme-park MMO. This is a good thing because if they are successfully more companies will follow suit, so in that light they are an evolution (or at the very least the spark) more then a revolution of the MMO world. What remains to be seen is if it all works out, the same could be said for The Secret World and their ARG system as it bridges the gap of social gaming in a new way but if it will catch on remains to be seen.

     

    Also I'm not forgetting Star Wars: The Old Republic because lets face it as much as people love to slam the title it has become the MMO to demo how much voice over work can change the grind if only initially, it is not unlike when movies went from being silent to having sound. Sure there are people that thought sound was pointless and just a fad but how many movies have released with no sound since. Guild Wars 2 is another bring in voice over though not 100% it might find that happy medium between the two which is where I believe is the direction that MMO's will go having a balance between voice overs and text.

    image
    Because flying a Minmatar ship is like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an Uzi.

  • VotanVotan Meriden, CTPosts: 291Member Uncommon

    I give GW2 a 10 out 10 rating.....oh wait I have not played the game yet......

     

    Many here critized this site for all the positive reviews of SWTOR based on playing it for short period of time then giving it a 8 or 9 rating.  For all the hate SWTOR was fun for a very short period of time but the game broke down at higher levels and when the shiney wore off the game which for many was about 2-3 weeks.  Now we have moved on to almost dawning GW2 the 2nd coming.......The hype meter is off the charts moving to a dangerous place in setting some possibly unrealistic expectations for many.

     

    I am excited to try GW2, I am extremely happy that is not another WoW cloan, but I am still skeptically optimistic....

  • KonfessKonfess Dallas, TXPosts: 949Member Uncommon

    How many games could have had 3 factions and dropped the ball?  Like you said  DAoC, and Planetside.  What did we learn form those games?  Three ( 3 ) Factions wont hold a player base.

    I bought GW and two expansions,  I wont be buying GW2.

    Pardon any spelling errors
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  • MadnessRealmMadnessRealm Montreal, QCPosts: 2,716Member Uncommon

    Last it was SWTOR being hyped by the staff as the "next big thing" and a revolution in the gaming industry, now it's GW2. In all seriousness, GW2 hasn't revolutionized anything. They simply looked at current MMORPGs and single-player RPGs, took what they liked and removed what they don't like. Mix it up with the Guild Wars' lore, and you've got GW2.

     

    Of course this doesn't mean that it will be a bad game, I think it will be a decent game, but does it revolutionize the genre? No. Does it improve on the current formula? Yes, definitively. But I don't want to hype myself into thinking this game will be the next coming of christ, or the successor of UO or whatever. Hype is without a doubt, one of the biggest murderer in the industry.

    ------
    Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member

    Originally posted by garrett

    BadSpock...I love the term

    ThemeBox




     

    I posted that term months ago in regards to GW2, and like Spock, I got chewed out by nerds.

  • Randallt3mpRandallt3mp Menlo Park, CAPosts: 168Member

    I want to point out that I agree with some points of those both for and against the hype of this game.

    This game is overhyped.  That is for sure.  I dont think anyone in their right mind would argue with that.  However, there is more validity behind the hype of GW2 than there has been for most popular mmos in the last 5 years or so.  This is because of the enormous amount of features and their coverage given by a plethora of actual gameplay videos.  Plenty of people have also had the chance to play around with the game and these features at the various gaming shows and conferences.

    However, I do agree that the amount of hype for this game is very high and that it is impossible to live up to peoples expectations because most of these people haven't actually played the game. And we all know that watching a game and playing it are very different.  Also, even if people dont like to admit, many of them are a little too excited for their own good and are being influenced by people on forums shouting "this game will revolutionize mmos" or "this is a wow-killer, it will be the best game ever."

    Still even with that being said I would bet my left nut that for the majority of people that played games like WAR, AION, Rift, and SWTOR this game will be better, more fun to play, and hold their attention longer than any of those.

    Does that mean I think its the "holy grail" of MMO's or " revolutionary!!!."  No. Will it be fun and help to progress the mmo genre in the right direction. Yes.

    MMOs Played: FFXI,Age of Conan, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, TERA, TSW, GW2

    Playing:None

    Waiting For: Wildstar, The Repopulation, Archeage, TESO, Warhammer 40K:EC, EQN

  • troublmakertroublmaker St. George''s, NFPosts: 337Member

    Step 1: Release game and pretend to be humble about it.

    Step 2: Get everyone to overhype it and give people false expectations.

    Step 3: Sell 2M copies

    Step 4: Don't meet expectations

    Website: http://www.thegameguru.me / YouTube:

  • AutemOxAutemOx Fullerton, CAPosts: 1,704Member

    I am looking forward to GW as much as most here but new breed?  Haha.

    Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.

  • CistaCistaCistaCista CopenhagenPosts: 26Member

    It seems many are confusing the definition of sandbox with "freedom" lol.




    An open-world MMO is a game where you have the freedom to go anywhere and at that random place you can by chance interact with any random player that you did not know was there. 





     

    This has nothing to do with sandbox. The definition of a sandbox is not the having freedom to make your own choices, the definition of sandbox is that there is sand there.




    A good way of proving a game is a sandbox is that if you visit different servers, or visit the server at different points in time, it will not be the same experience the same world. Because PLAYERS HAVE CHANGED IT. There may be other constructions or settlements, or other kinds of gear available for you to use in one server than the other. Or there will be areas that are not easily accessible to you because players will not allow you to go there without a fight. The world will be recognisable to you because this is where "this clan" built "that city" or this is where you can buy those special crafted bows. 




    As far as I know GW1 didnt even have a persistent world, so how GW2 is now a sandbox - that is difficult for me to believe. Having instances (standardised parts of the world) is by definition the opposite of sandbox. A game that relies on instances is most certainly a themepark game.





     




     

  • DannyGloverDannyGlover Portland, ORPosts: 1,277Member

    I'd really just like to finally get my hands on this game and try it out. The videos and info just aren't giving me that mmorpg vibe. I do see an amazing online action game that looks like a blast to play. But I can't see myself immersed in this world. It seems like it would be more like a 'romp' through the world. Which is cool and all, but not really what I look for in an mmorpg.

    I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.

  • TorlukTorluk EdinburghPosts: 162Member

    Chuck D. said it pretty good:

    "...false media

    We don't need it do we?

    It's fake that's what it be to 'ya, dig me?

    Don't believe the hype..."

    Taken a little out of context maybe but still relevant.

    While this culture of hype is great for websites like this one, all it does is whip up bored and enthusiastic fans into a frenzy only for them to become inevitably frustrated once they experience the limitations of the real game.

    The actual game that launches could never conform to the ideal they have allowed and encouraged the expectant fans to create and fantasize about in their minds.

    Sure it shifts a big wedge of pre-orders, and with a b2p game that is all they really need to do until the first expansion, but it is gonna leave a sour taste in many mouths when people start realising that the reality of what GW2 will be is not what they had been dreaming about.

    I'm not saying the game won't be decent, I'm just saying the hype while solving the problem of getting the game noticed, shifting units and generating a turnover quickly will also create its own problem of never being able to please all the people it has hyped up.

    How different would it be if unreleased games tried to avoid conventions, journalists, advertising and just generally hyping things up so that when the players experience the game for the first time they can do so with a clear and open mind?  One noticeable advantage of that type of strategy is that it might allow players a chance to judge the game on its own merits rather than against this unachievable ideal they have been encouraged to construct in the years and months leading up to launch.

    Obviously the suits will never go for that till some clever fellow can prove it would be the most profitable percentage play, but it would be interesting to find out what the result would be. However, one thing's for sure - there would be alot less drama on the forums here.

    A new breed of mmorpg?  Perhaps it is a bit soon to ask that question, try asking it again 3 months after launch.

    EDIT: With the hype machine in full swing again it reminds me of groundhog day on this website.


  • bobfishbobfish SouthamptonPosts: 1,688Member

    I'm beginning to think I'm the only one that finds GW2 combat to be disappointing, not bad, but disappointing. Because it is the least innovated system in the game.

    They've done so much to improve everything else in the game (bar crafting), but the combat is pretty much the same as every other MMO we've had in the last 15 years.

    Shame, will enjoy the game, but I know the combat is going to drive me away from it eventually.

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