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Setting a new standard maybe? No sub fee future MMOs?

TheonenoniTheonenoni Lexington, VAPosts: 279Member

Depending on which game releases first , tera or gw2 lol, we might wonder why we paid $60 for a disc and then $15/month for a traditional MMO.   Both tera and GW2 have an action based combat style that opens itself to a bigger audience.  If GW2 is a community and marketing success then we might raise the question of being scammed. Yah yah I know some of you think $15/month is nothing but we all dont have money to throw around for no real reason. Its like paying to breath in oxygen. Its almost that silly.   

Hypothetically lets say GW2 becomes more popular than WoW. It would prove that no MMO needs a sub fee.  It really makes me wonder about the 11 million supposed people(fools) who play such a game. Casual I guess, if you are a hardcore than you are stubborn to believe that a sub fee is needed. There are facts as to why a sub fee is not needed and you can find them on the web. 

I'm excited to play Firefall, even though it is going to be a shooter. Step aside Global Agenda , say hello to freedom. 

-I am here to perform logic

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Comments

  • OberholzerOberholzer Hasbrouck Heights, NJPosts: 498Member

    I'm all for playing a game without a sub fee but no company currently charging a sub fee is forcing anyone to pay it, If people are doing it it's of their own accord so how is anyone being scammed? If you don't want to pay sub fees don't play games with subs. It's fairly simple really.

  • dllddlld GöteborgPosts: 542Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by eayes

    I'm all for playing a game without a sub fee but no company currently charging a sub fee is forcing anyone to pay it, If people are doing it it's of their own accord so how is anyone being scammed? If you don't want to pay sub fees don't play games with subs. It's fairly simple really.

    By that logic there are no scams.. because it's always volountary in the end.

  • stayontargetstayontarget Tacoma, WAPosts: 6,068Member Uncommon

    No sub fee games have been around for a long time.  New standard ?  hardly.   It's mostly sub-standard.

    Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...

  • BilboDogginsBilboDoggins Gresham, ORPosts: 198Member

    The biggest problem for businesses in the MMO genre has always been that P2P games have to canabilize eachother.  B2P with micro transactions are the wave of the future. Scares me though because sooner or later anygame with microtransactions will get some douchebag exec who decides they can milk more profits out of the game by selling more than just convienence and fluff items. Of course in a game which doesnt emphasize loot like GW2 this is less likely to happen and wont be a huge problem even if it does. In most games however its a huge problem.

  • How about stirring the pot a bit?

     

    D3.  Player to Player sanctioned RMT. 

     

    I think it's gonna make Blizzard serious bank, I even think it'll make wow numbers look small.

     

    So how long before you start seeing this model in mainstream mmos?

  • El-HefeEl-Hefe Yakima, WAPosts: 609Member

    i dont mind paying a sub fee, if i enjoy the game.  it equates to going to see a movie once a month.  it's cheap entertainment.

    if gw2 is a huge success, will other companies follow with a buy to play model? maybe, but i dont think we'll see sub fees going extinct anytime soon.

     

    also if gw2 becomes more popular than wow it wont prove that no game needs a sub fee. it will prove that gw2 is a better game.

    I've got the straight edge.

  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,665Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by brody71

    i dont mind paying a sub fee, if i enjoy the game.  it equates to going to see a movie once a month.  it's cheap entertainment.

     

    I always found this analogy hilarious. So if an MMO for which you pay 35 pounds for the box + 9 pounds per month is cheap entertainment, then a single player/multiplayer game i bought for 10 pounds is the cheapest entertainment ever.

    People seem to forget that MMOs charge you for the box like every single game out there but they charge you a sub on top of that unlike other games. Let's do some simply calculations. If I buy SWTOR for 35 pounds and I play it for 2 months I will have to pay 44 pounds in total. This equates to 22 pounds per month. A single player game like Mass Effect 3 costs 30 pounds which over 2 months costs 15 pounds per month.

    Or are you saying taht all computer games are dirt cheap and that I might as well buy every single game out there cause it costs me as much as a ticket to the movies ;D

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • ThorbrandThorbrand West Palm Beach, FLPosts: 1,198Member

    Cash shop will bring in more money than $15/mo. Wait until you pay $750 on a cash shop playing a game and tell me who is ripping who off.

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member

    I dont' like B2P.  The main reason is developer won't try as hard to continue develop new content. 

    When I play a mmorpg, I hope to play it for years.  When's the last time GW have content patch?  and the dev pretty much give up on Gw1 and make Gw2. 

    There is 2 way of approaching f2p.  One is to sell content and another is selling non content related item.  If you sell content, it's not f2p, since almost everyone have to pay.  And the tendency for selling other non content related item is they tend to be pay 2 win, that affect the balance of the game. 

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by fivoroth

    Originally posted by brody71

    i dont mind paying a sub fee, if i enjoy the game.  it equates to going to see a movie once a month.  it's cheap entertainment.

     

    I always found this analogy hilarious. So if an MMO for which you pay 35 pounds for the box + 9 pounds per month is cheap entertainment, then a single player/multiplayer game i bought for 10 pounds is the cheapest entertainment ever.

    People seem to forget that MMOs charge you for the box like every single game out there but they charge you a sub on top of that unlike other games. Let's do some simply calculations. If I buy SWTOR for 35 pounds and I play it for 2 months I will have to pay 44 pounds in total. This equates to 22 pounds per month. A single player game like Mass Effect 3 costs 30 pounds which over 2 months costs 15 pounds per month.

    Or are you saying taht all computer games are dirt cheap and that I might as well buy every single game out there cause it costs me as much as a ticket to the movies ;D

    I just bought RIFT for my wife.  It cost me $5 USD and came with a month of game time.  After that it costs whatever the subscription package equates to (from $15/mo down to less than $10/mo depending on the sub length).

    So I essentially got the game for less than a single month's sub fee.

    I'm more than happy with my sub costs for that particular game and dev studio.  I actually feel like I'm getting a return on development with the cost of the game.  I get the whole game for that fee and like not being nickle and dimed with a bunch of microtransactions.

    You can't make generalized statements like P2P is this way or F2P is that way.  Each studio and publisher is their own entity and what they offer and the costs are different.  There are some P2P companies and some F2P companies that are insanely expensive if you want the full meal deal and their games aren't worth the cost to me.

  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member

    Originally posted by laokoko

    I dont' like B2P.  The main reason is developer won't try as hard to continue develop new content. 

    When I play a mmorpg, I hope to play it for years.  When's the last time GW have content patch?  and the dev pretty much give up on Gw1 and make Gw2. 

    Since they started working on GW 2.

     

    Oh an to be really honst 15 dollars a month isn't needed, they just want it . Still I don't see a huge problem with paying a sub but I always keep in the back of my mind that these devs on't really need our 15 dollars per month but oh well.

    Oh and OP, it might change being that it'll be a AAA MMORPG and not anything less with a B2P model an no P2W cash shop.

     

    Takecare guys.

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    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

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  • El-HefeEl-Hefe Yakima, WAPosts: 609Member

    Originally posted by fivoroth

    Originally posted by brody71

    i dont mind paying a sub fee, if i enjoy the game.  it equates to going to see a movie once a month.  it's cheap entertainment.

     

    I always found this analogy hilarious. So if an MMO for which you pay 35 pounds for the box + 9 pounds per month is cheap entertainment, then a single player/multiplayer game i bought for 10 pounds is the cheapest entertainment ever.

    People seem to forget that MMOs charge you for the box like every single game out there but they charge you a sub on top of that unlike other games. Let's do some simply calculations. If I buy SWTOR for 35 pounds and I play it for 2 months I will have to pay 44 pounds in total. This equates to 22 pounds per month. A single player game like Mass Effect 3 costs 30 pounds which over 2 months costs 15 pounds per month.

    Or are you saying taht all computer games are dirt cheap and that I might as well buy every single game out there cause it costs me as much as a ticket to the movies ;D

    that's why i said if i enjoy the game.  that's why there are free trials. 

    I've got the straight edge.

  • CeridithCeridith Toronto, ONPosts: 2,980Member

    Not really.

    GW2 will be replacing sub fees with more frequent expansions, DLC content, and a cash shop closer to the extent of what F2P games contain.

    Either way, people will be paying as much, and in some cases more, than they do with a monthly sub game. Think of GW2's B2P setup as a P2P/F2P hybrid.

  • sagilsagil StockholmPosts: 291Member

    Aion recently changed to "truly free to play" model. Although, I see them selling in the store pets that can pick up items or give you extra bag slots. Kinda unfair, but that just makes it so you don't need to run to the bank or sell more often.

     

    If they make it P2W, then only Bill Gates and his friends will play. Which I doubt any smart marketing boss would do, because Bill Gates and his friends could do their own dream game. Would you actually think of that? Someone might have spent so much money on a P2W game he could had saved them up and do a game instead.

    Anyways, I think F2P with micro-transactions is a new, more modern model in todays mmo world. Before, not many people cared about stuffs they are selling at an item shop, but now you see everyone and their dog buying a mount in WoW for 20 euros. Incredible. 

    Going F2P might actually make you get MORE customers and MORE money in your pockets.

  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,203Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by laokoko

    I dont' like B2P.  The main reason is developer won't try as hard to continue develop new content. 

     

    The reverse. If you are getting 15 a month regardless you can sit back on your greedy fat *rse and know the money will roll in each month. If the only way of generating revenue from your existing customer base is to release new content you are going to be far more motivated.

  • El-HefeEl-Hefe Yakima, WAPosts: 609Member

    Originally posted by Gorilla

    Originally posted by laokoko

    I dont' like B2P.  The main reason is developer won't try as hard to continue develop new content. 

     

    The reverse. If you are getting 15 a month regardless you can sit back on your greedy fat *rse and know the money will roll in each month. If the only way of generating revenue from your existing customer base is to release new content you are going to be far more motivated.

    but you can cancel the 15/month at any time.   in order to to ensure those people will still pay you is to give them more to do.  you arent getting there money regardless.

    and all the b2p model would have to do is promote the current product. they already have the exsisiting customers money. 

    I've got the straight edge.

  • paterahpaterah ThessalonikiPosts: 578Member

    Originally posted by brody71

    Originally posted by Gorilla


    Originally posted by laokoko

    I dont' like B2P.  The main reason is developer won't try as hard to continue develop new content. 

     

    The reverse. If you are getting 15 a month regardless you can sit back on your greedy fat *rse and know the money will roll in each month. If the only way of generating revenue from your existing customer base is to release new content you are going to be far more motivated.

    but you can cancel the 15/month at any time.   in order to to ensure those people will still pay you is to give them more to do.  you arent getting there money regardless.

    and all the b2p model would have to do is promote the current product. they already have the exsisiting customers money. 

    And if a company promotes the p2p game and produces 0 content they'd still make money due to the subs.

  • ace80kace80k Lorton, VAPosts: 151Member Uncommon

    Being an old school Everquest player myself, I have been 100% against F2P games and in fact I've never even played one. However, if a F2P playform is what is needed to properly fund an MMO in today's economy, if that's what is needed to produce a quality game, then I'm all for it. My concern is: how will the game survive if the population drops significantly, for whatever reason, cash shop sale purchases drop significantly, and/or box sales from new players cease to occur. How can a F2P game survive? Obviously if the game gets to that point, the game will be concidered dead and unplayable anyway, but I have a hard time believing Arenanet will have the proper funds, over a long period of time, to continuously produce quality content on a regular basis. Especially with today's unpredictable economy. With that said, I actually hope to be proven wrong, as i plan to give GW2 a try at launch.

  • El-HefeEl-Hefe Yakima, WAPosts: 609Member

    Originally posted by paterah

    Originally posted by brody71


    Originally posted by Gorilla


    Originally posted by laokoko

    I dont' like B2P.  The main reason is developer won't try as hard to continue develop new content. 

     

    The reverse. If you are getting 15 a month regardless you can sit back on your greedy fat *rse and know the money will roll in each month. If the only way of generating revenue from your existing customer base is to release new content you are going to be far more motivated.

    but you can cancel the 15/month at any time.   in order to to ensure those people will still pay you is to give them more to do.  you arent getting there money regardless.

    and all the b2p model would have to do is promote the current product. they already have the exsisiting customers money. 

    And if a company promotes the p2p game and produces 0 content they'd still make money due to the subs.

    true. thankfully we have a choice wether or not we invest time and money into games.

    I've got the straight edge.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,045Member Uncommon

    Really hard to say. If GW2 do well it will prove th concept for good but that doesn´t mean publishing houses want to make other games B2P. Right now is the only other AAA MMO in development that is B2P Undead labs "Class 4".

    Currently have the trends been that many companies move to F2P instead while P2P have added RMT shops. 

    Any very successful game will affect games released further away in the future like Wow have done but it is still hard to figure out what they will copy and what they wont. It also depends why analysts think that the game become so huge. 

  • CastillleCastillle KhobarPosts: 2,703Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by brody71

    Originally posted by Gorilla


    Originally posted by laokoko

    I dont' like B2P.  The main reason is developer won't try as hard to continue develop new content. 

     

    The reverse. If you are getting 15 a month regardless you can sit back on your greedy fat *rse and know the money will roll in each month. If the only way of generating revenue from your existing customer base is to release new content you are going to be far more motivated.

    but you can cancel the 15/month at any time.   in order to to ensure those people will still pay you is to give them more to do.  you arent getting there money regardless.

    and all the b2p model would have to do is promote the current product. they already have the exsisiting customers money. 

    What about missing unsubscribe buttons? :O

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  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member

    Originally posted by Castillle

    Originally posted by brody71


    Originally posted by Gorilla


    Originally posted by laokoko

    I dont' like B2P.  The main reason is developer won't try as hard to continue develop new content. 

     

    The reverse. If you are getting 15 a month regardless you can sit back on your greedy fat *rse and know the money will roll in each month. If the only way of generating revenue from your existing customer base is to release new content you are going to be far more motivated.

    but you can cancel the 15/month at any time.   in order to to ensure those people will still pay you is to give them more to do.  you arent getting there money regardless.

    and all the b2p model would have to do is promote the current product. they already have the exsisiting customers money. 

    What about missing unsubscribe buttons? :O

    We really only have 1 B2P MMOrpg that I know of.  That's GW.  When's the last time GW get content patch.  They pretty much gave up on that.  And if they keep pushing DLC after DLC, it's pretty much like monthly subscription. 

    I expect my MMORPG to patch often.  The f2p game I play now, get content patch every 3 month.  It's not that I don't support B2P, I definately will buy GW2.  It's just I'm disappointed on GW or games like diablo which stop bothering with keep pushing out content after a while.

  • ComfyChairComfyChair BirminghamPosts: 758Member

    Originally posted by laokoko

    Originally posted by Castillle


    Originally posted by brody71


    Originally posted by Gorilla


    Originally posted by laokoko

    I dont' like B2P.  The main reason is developer won't try as hard to continue develop new content. 

     

    The reverse. If you are getting 15 a month regardless you can sit back on your greedy fat *rse and know the money will roll in each month. If the only way of generating revenue from your existing customer base is to release new content you are going to be far more motivated.

    but you can cancel the 15/month at any time.   in order to to ensure those people will still pay you is to give them more to do.  you arent getting there money regardless.

    and all the b2p model would have to do is promote the current product. they already have the exsisiting customers money. 

    What about missing unsubscribe buttons? :O

    We really only have 1 B2P MMOrpg that I know of.  That's GW.  When's the last time GW get content patch.  They pretty much gave up on that.  And if they keep pushing DLC after DLC, it's pretty much like monthly subscription. 

    I expect my MMORPG to patch often.  The f2p game I play now, get content patch every 3 month.  It's not that I don't support B2P, I definately will buy GW2.  It's just I'm disappointed on GW or games like diablo which stop bothering with keep pushing out content after a while.

    GW got a content patch last week (or was it the week before?) with 9 missions, finishing off the winds of change mini-campaign, including an epic boss fight with a gw2 style mesmer. The writing and action in those missions were completely top notch as well, GW at it's finest. It was a more meaningful content update than bioware's first update for ToR, that's for sure.

    So, once again, make sure to do research on a topic :)

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member

    As you see I obviously dont' know what Im' talking about.  I bought GW but didn't play much of it. Maybe they do push out content patch often.

  • ComfyChairComfyChair BirminghamPosts: 758Member

    Originally posted by laokoko

    As you see I obviously dont' know what Im' talking about.  I bought GW but didn't play much of it. Maybe they do push out content patch often.

    They do put out new content pretty often, indeed. Over the last year we've seen two whole mini campaigns, both of which are a good 20-30 hours of content form start to finish. Much more if you do them in hard mode.

    And that's the free content! :D The GW expansions themselves easily exceeded the content in the original campaign each time :)

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