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Guild Wars 2: A New Breed of MMORPG?

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  • NikkitaNikkita ParisPosts: 790Member

    Originally posted by Master10K



    Originally posted by BadSpock






    Originally posted by EvilGeek






    Sandbox elements are hard to find in GW2 but it certainly gives back that notion of freedom in a theme park setting, it's a theme park without rails is my take on it, it's a massive difference unto itself from what we've had from releases over the past four or five years. Those rails seem to have got tighter as the genre moved on (on not forward). As an explorer I'm really hyped by this new freedom, I won't have to go from quest giver to quest giver, from hub to hub, instead the world is my oyster, far closer to a virtual world feel than we've seen for a long time.

    What really struck me from playing the demo was the fluidity of play or how organic it felt, sentiments echoed by a lot of the reviews we've had since the press beta. Tyria feels like a living breathing world because of this, the game became less and the world became more (if you get what I mean) and I was believing the world, my place in it and having crap loads of fun. Fun and accessible being the other words that hit strongly for me.

    I like it.

    Especially this line - "certainly gives back that notion of freedom in a theme park setting, it's a theme park without rails is my take on it"

    That's my take on it aswell. No other Themepark MMORPG gives players as much freedom as Guild Wars 2. From all the the press beta footage I've seen, they all seem to do something different right after the tutorial...






    No other Themepark MMORPG will allow you to do that many things right out the gate and that's what makes the game so amazing IMO.

    In other themepark MMOS too once out of tutorial area players can go in any direction they like and start questing, exploring, PVP, crafting or whatever else they enjoy. Tera being the latest example i am sure others can come up with more examples.

    To say NO other themepark MMOS offer so much freedom is a very false claim to make.

    image


    Bite Me

  • Zeus.CMZeus.CM ZagrebPosts: 1,788Member

    Gw2 is imo a hybrid themepark sandbox mmo. You go around and you can never tell for sure what awaits you because of the dynamic world. For those who like themepark and handholding they will find their place in personal story.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Yeah was thinking you can pretty much do that in daoc for instance and that's a themepark

    I still think gw2 will be a good mmo, and a much needed game for pvp fans, as we've had shitty end of the stick mmo release wise since the good days of daoc / eve / planetside

    But it won't be the second coming
  • EvilGeekEvilGeek londonPosts: 1,226Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Nikkita


    Originally posted by Master10K
    No other Themepark MMORPG will allow you to do that many things right out the gate and that's what makes the game so amazing IMO.

    In other themepark MMOS too once out of tutorial area players can go in any direction they like and start questing, exploring, PVP, crafting or whatever else they enjoy. Tera being the latest example i am sure others can come up with more examples.
    To say NO other themepark MMOS offer so much freedom is a very false claim to make.

    And how is the reward from doing that? In nearly every themepark quests are the best source of xp, gear and also the prime source of lore, in order to get at those goodies and level up most effectively you need to get on board the questing train. Getting off that train means grinding content, no lore, no quest rewards, no context. Events in GW2 provide all of that without keeping you on rails, that's what's unique.

    image
  • NikkitaNikkita ParisPosts: 790Member

    Originally posted by EvilGeek

     




    Originally posted by Nikkita





    Originally posted by Master10K








    Originally posted by BadSpock












    Originally posted by EvilGeek


















    Sandbox elements are hard to find in GW2 but it certainly gives back that notion of freedom in a theme park setting, it's a theme park without rails is my take on it, it's a massive difference unto itself from what we've had from releases over the past four or five years. Those rails seem to have got tighter as the genre moved on (on not forward). As an explorer I'm really hyped by this new freedom, I won't have to go from quest giver to quest giver, from hub to hub, instead the world is my oyster, far closer to a virtual world feel than we've seen for a long time.



    What really struck me from playing the demo was the fluidity of play or how organic it felt, sentiments echoed by a lot of the reviews we've had since the press beta. Tyria feels like a living breathing world because of this, the game became less and the world became more (if you get what I mean) and I was believing the world, my place in it and having crap loads of fun. Fun and accessible being the other words that hit strongly for me.








    I like it.



    Especially this line - "certainly gives back that notion of freedom in a theme park setting, it's a theme park without rails is my take on it"








    That's my take on it aswell. No other Themepark MMORPG gives players as much freedom as Guild Wars 2. From all the the press beta footage I've seen, they all seem to do something different right after the tutorial...











    No other Themepark MMORPG will allow you to do that many things right out the gate and that's what makes the game so amazing IMO.





    In other themepark MMOS too once out of tutorial area players can go in any direction they like and start questing, exploring, PVP, crafting or whatever else they enjoy. Tera being the latest example i am sure others can come up with more examples.

    To say NO other themepark MMOS offer so much freedom is a very false claim to make.




     

    And how is the reward from doing that? In nearly every themepark quests are the best source of xp, gear and also the prime source of lore, in order to get at those goodies and level up most effectively you need to get on board the questing train. Getting off that train means grinding content, no lore, no quest rewards. Events in GW2 provide all of that without keeping you on rails, that's what's unique.

    Sorry but you are goign completely off topic. We are talking about features as a whole and not just questing. Only because GW2 does away with questing doesn't mean no other MMO offers the same amount of freedom to players. Apart from questing other themepark too offer exploration, pvp, personal stories, leveling, craftin etc.

    The guy i replied to make it sound as if only GW2 offers all these features.

    image


    Bite Me

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon

    You have innovators and those who posture as innovators.Arenanet is a true innovator.

  • AlotAlot BredaPosts: 1,948Member

    Guild Wars 2 a new breed?

    Quite.

  • smh_alotsmh_alot Area 51Posts: 976Member
    Originally posted by Phelcher


    Originally posted by smh_alot


    Originally posted by BadSpock


    Originally posted by smh_alot

    Ok, I get the excitement of the article writer, but I don't get the sandbox comparison. In what way does GW2 use sandbox specific elements?? Now Arche Age, THAT I can understand that people describe it as a themepark/sandbox hybrid, with sandbox features like building your own houses, towns, keeps and ships and such. But GW2, nope, not really: best description imo would be themepark 2.0 or next-gen themepark. But still very solidly in the themepark or dev content driven branch of things.

    From what I gather - GW2 feels a lot like a Skyrim kind of sandbox.. sure, there are quests and some guidance and a main plot line, but you can also just pick a direction and wander out and find all kinds of fun stuff to do, that is actually worth while.

    Exploration + content.

     

     

    ? The definition of what makes an MMO a sandbox sure has changed, if that's what's considered a sandbox nowadays. There have been quite a number of non-sandbox MMO's starting from EQ where this was very much possible, picking a direction and wandering out to do fun stuff.

     

    Afaik the difference between sandbox and themepark MMO's, or game driven and virtual world focused design as the debate went on before WoW, was that with sandbox MMO's the emphasis is on providing players the tools and flexible mechanics to make their stamp on the ingame world and create an emerging interactive community. Less focus on dev created content, and more on player/community interaction via tools provided, which if you look at UO, SWG and EVE Online is what was noticeable in player created houses and cities, persistent world territory control and a deep, multi layered and complex economy system.

     

    I don't see that in GW2 at all, not like Arche Age has which I consider a true themepark/sandbox hybrid. What I do see is typical themepark style features, but then taken to the next level, which is a good thing too.

     

    It is upsetting when somone is using the word "Sandbox" and doesn't even know the definition (within contex), or even understand the term (within actual use, in game).

    The definition of "Sandbox" has not changed, only the technology allowing it's use, has changed. It is now alot easier to build Sandbox games, BECAUSE building an Open World is much, much, easier now given the technology of the day.

     

    Sandbox games are predicated on the fact they have 360 degree content.

    Everquest back in March 16th 1999 was/is considered a Sandbox game. There was no funneling of content, mulitple ways to leave a city and multi paths & direction to head out in...  given the technology @ the time. Zone walls were used, but the zones were all outward content.

    When a game is predicated on inferior server technology...  and the business decision to funnel content and "theme" using zones/instances due to server cost... THEN, that game becomes themepark, becausde now the developers (limited by their choice/cost of server structure) have to develop eye catching rifts/public quests, etc..  so that you as a inhabitant of their world MUST spend time looking at what the Developers specifically deveoped for you, instead of heading off in THAT direction & exploring.

    Just because a Sandbox has side shows, that some people like, or enjoy doesn't make it a "themepark". Anything can have "themepark" like qualities..  only sandboxes have sandbox qualities about them.

     

    ? What the... man, some of you people sure have some funny ideas about what a sandbox MMO is. Looks to me more like 'if it's inferior tech or features, then it's themepark, if it's tech and mechanics I like then it's sandbox'. I can't recall EQ being called a sandbox MMO at all and I think many, MANY people will disagree with you making that claim. UO, sure, when the sandbox subgenre got defined in popular opinion it was MMO's like UO, SWG and now EVE that were considered as main examples of the sandbox school. Maybe even an AC. EQ, not 1 of those.

    I partially agree in that there are no strict borders, and that there can be sandbox style features in an MMO as well as themepark style features. But I get the feeling that, when you'd consider a pure sandbox MMO a 0 on a scale of 10 and pure themepark a 10 on a scale of 10, that some people start to regard anything below the 9 either a hybrid or a sandbox MMO. Or anything that isn't a WoW-style of themepark MMO is almost automatically considered a non-themepark MMO or a sandbox hybrid; as if you can't have full themepark MMO's that are NOT WoWesque, and the only possible themepark designs and themepark MMO's are WoW style themepark MMO's. Doesn't really sound right.
  • Master10KMaster10K LondonPosts: 3,065Member

    Originally posted by Nikkita

    *snip*

    Sorry but you are goign completely off topic. We are talking about features as a whole and not just questing. Only because GW2 does away with questing doesn't mean no other MMO offers the same amount of freedom to players. Apart from questing other themepark too offer exploration, pvp, personal stories, leveling, craftin etc.

    The guy i replied to make it sound as if only GW2 offers all these features.

    I am talking about a single Themepark MMORPG allowing players to do all of that, right out the gate and having it all be worthwhile. You bring up TERA, which honestly has one of the most horrid newbie zones, from about levels 1-10, that anything after that would feel like a breath of fresh air. TERA doesn't seem to offer much in the realm of open world or large scale PvP for someone who just hit level 10. Mostly just dueling at that point. Also how are the battlegrounds in TERA, cause I never got to try it in the beta. Can you try them from level 10? Are they bracketed like in Rift?

    Eitherway, no other MMORPG allows you to do both competitve instanced PvP from level 2 and also take part in large scale meaningful warfare, whilst making a difference and progressing your character.

    image

  • sonoggisonoggi tdot, ONPosts: 1,119Member
    The people who keep rambling about the game being "overhyped" are really starting to irritate me. If you were hyped before this weekend, and are disappointed after seeing the vids, then you were seriously blind all along. In;fact, unlike TOR, GW2 is getting hyped up by the players who have actually played the game, and who can attest that ANet has actually kept every single promise.

    There are different kinds of hype; WAR, AoC and TOR type hype carried out by blind fanboyism and the devs themselves. And then there is GW2 hype brought on by evident promise keeping.
  • AmarantharAmaranthar OhioPosts: 2,428Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by sonoggi

    The people who keep rambling about the game being "overhyped" are really starting to irritate me. If you were hyped before this weekend, and are disappointed after seeing the vids, then you were seriously blind all along. In;fact, unlike TOR, GW2 is getting hyped up by the players who have actually played the game, and who can attest that ANet has actually kept every single promise.



    There are different kinds of hype; WAR, AoC and TOR type hype carried out by blind fanboyism and the devs themselves. And then there is GW2 hype brought on by evident promise keeping.

    Is this copied and pasted from some general source for "new" MMO propaganda?

    As to GW2, it's just another evolution of the same ol' same ol'. Just like everything else.

    Once upon a time....

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Solon, MEPosts: 2,201Member Uncommon

    I really cannot wait for this game. I've been waiting forever (literally like three years now) for this game to come out so this is going to be an epic year!

    Smile

  • smh_alotsmh_alot Area 51Posts: 976Member
    Originally posted by Razeekster

    I really cannot wait for this game. I've been waiting forever (literally like three years now) for this game to come out so this is going to be an epic year!

     

    I can fully agree with this: imo it's gonna be legendary, this year. Well, at least for me and for people who like a number of the heap of MMO titles that's coming out this year :-)
  • ZeGermanZeGerman Andover, MAPosts: 196Member Uncommon

    Almost everything anyone can think of in an MMO has been tried in one game or another (technological requirments not withstanding), its not that GW2 is doing things that are entirely new, but rather that they are bringing them together in a never before done seamless manor.  This is even harder to do today than it was 8 years ago.   8 Years ago the MMO market was small and trying something new could reward you with lots of members.  Today you have to invest so much money in an MMO that you have to be garanteed success, Best way to do that is copy success and try and do it just different enough to be new and interesting (caugh aion caugh). 

    The most revolutionary things being done in GW2 are actualy technical but since very few people appreciate them ill just shut up now.

  • banshe13banshe13 aurora, ILPosts: 200Member

    GW2 has not 1 thing that has not been done already but thats not saying I am not sitting here f5ing  my email right now.  take a look at shadowbane we had every thing gw2 has and more out side the city mini game's.

  • garrettgarrett Posts: 261MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

    BadSpock...I love the term

    ThemeBox

     :p 
  • garrettgarrett Posts: 261MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

    The way to look at this is through the investments in the MMO industry over the last 5 years.

    It was much easier to go to Executives, Business Development, and Invesment folks and say:

    "Our game will be an MMO, like World of Warcraft. World of Warcraft makes $150 mln a MONTH!!" 

    Investors wanted a piece of that pie badly....the problem is several games were crushed under deadlines and bad decisions. It is a miracle so many MMOs launched in that time period. For every game that launched we had several fail. Look at Stargate Worlds for goodness sake.

    I think now MMOs will turn the corner from the WoW model we knew and grow in better directions. I mean look at how many console titles have learned from MMOs and are doing amazing because of it. Sadly MMOs never made the changes as well, they just kept trying to replicate that WoW model. Which was great for its time, but the one thing you can count on is change...even if it is something that reinvents the old and makes it new. That was kind of the point of this editorial, to show that the GW2 team are all old school players like us. They took the ideas of those games and implemented them in a great new system.

     :p 
  • garrettgarrett Posts: 261MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

    oh and in regards to Hype...In Guild Wars 2's case, there is definitely hype, but it is backed up by some amazing game play and experiences we have already had. Not just in the Beta, but the game was playable at PAX and at the NCSoft Party for NY Comicon last year. There were loads of fans who got to play. If you have demo-ed the game at an event speak up!

    Leave the overhype for crappy superhero movies ....

     

     

     :p 
  • UtukuMoonUtukuMoon ParisPosts: 1,066Member

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx


    Originally posted by BadSpock



    All systems in a MMORPG are related. You can't just pluck feature X from game Y and put it into game Z.

    All systems and features must work well in concert with each other to be "designed well."

    You are still being very vague and offered no real explanation. Why is bad for other themepark MMOS to be released for consoles but it is ok for GW2, why is it bad for other themepark MMOS to have loading screens but it is ok for GW2.

    I personally do not care for these issues but it does makes you pause and think for a while to see such double standards.

    I don't think there is anything bad with console gaming, and in truth I love the idea (far from confirmed) of a console version of GW2. I don't share that whole "elitist PC gamer" attitude.

    As for loading screens, they are often a neccessary evil. Would I prefer to not have them? Of course. But I also like to have nice graphics and smooth game play.

    If the engine can't give me all 3, I'll gladly sacrifice loading screens for better graphics with more players and smoother game play.

    As with all things, it's a matter of degree - TOR goes too far in feeling like a very small closed off world, as GW1.

    Is it possible to have smooth game play with great graphics and a lot of players and no loading screens between zones?

    I don't know - supposedly Tera does pretty good at that.

    Archeage looks to be looking good in that department too, but Tera looks to have basic quest-hub game play (despite action combat system) and Archeage also looks to have dated tab-target hot key combat and quest-hub level grinding - in addition to all the sandbox elements.

    AA also has public quests(nothing like GW2 DEs but it's not just the old quest system)which are like RIFTS.To be honest AA has far more features than GW2 IMO and it's,ill use your term,a themebox MMO.

    Bit laggy but here is a Rift type event in AA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09jT9GKeeuE, these are now being tested.

    As for GW2 action combat ,i honestly think Tera is more action combat that GW2,hell,their is no tab targetting,it's all aiming and avoidance.

    I think both Tera and GW2 have done very well where combat is concerned.I do prefer GW2 though,it's smoother and not twitchie like tera.

    All in all GW2 is a great MMO and i'm an avid fan but i think if AA came out this year i would play that more than i would GW2,hell ill be able to play both.image

    As for that mess swtor. Well, by the end of the year it will be just another vague MMO that didn't bring anything great to the table.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,209Member Uncommon

    One thing I've re-learned from this thread is, like politics and religion, everyone has their own definition of makes up a themepark or sandbox.

    I never played DAoC so I can't comment on pre-defined 3 faction PvP.  I can say that what made Lineage PvP great for me was having a myriad of player defined factions (guilds and alliances made the factions) and competition for resources (bosses, drops, castle gated dungeons, etc).  There could also be consequences for losing pvp battles.

    I've played GW1 PvP and it was fun, but it certainly wasn't anywhere near the same kind of PvP that happened in first generation games like UO and Lineage.   It's more like e-sport pvp which I think of more like pong matches, really complex pong matches, but inconsequential pizza slice activities none the less.  I'm hoping there will be more consequence and depth to GW2 pvp than we saw in GW1.

    I see this game as genre evolution more than genre revolution.  I'm still going to play it, and it will be fun. I don't need a gaming revolution to have fun.

  • DauzqulDauzqul Detroit, MIPosts: 1,405Member Uncommon

    MMCRPG: Massive Multiplayer Co'op Roleplaying Game. Most post-WoW games seem to fit more into this category.

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,924Member Uncommon

    New? Sorry, its not new at all. Refined? Yes. 

  • Angier2758Angier2758 Mt. Prospect, ILPosts: 1,011Member

    Originally posted by BlahTeeb

    Originally posted by AcmeGamer

     I dont really consider it a new breed of mmo-rpg. I think it is doing some things right and I think most will find it a very fun experience, including myself. I would like to see a better crafting system, I am a bit concerned about that. Also I am hoping for a good economcs system as well, who knows if that one will happen.

     

     On the comments about skill > gear.  While I agree that it is nice to see skill being more important then gear. I tend to have some issues with that, for me I think both are important. You can have all the skill in the world but if you are in a T-55 at 2k range at night and I am in a M1 Abrams and I even have the most basic of how to operate said M1 Abrams, you are indeed toast.

     

     Or to put it more into a medieval fantasy setting. If I am in fully fitted articulated Habsburg plate armor, wielding a well made heater  and master crafted broad sword with basic training in such gear. You on the other hand are wearing a bronze age cuirass and typical gear that Perseus might have used along with say his skill, you are still fighting at a serious disadvantage, no mattter how skillful you are.

     

     So while I do think skill should always play a role in the game play, how good your gear is should be a factor. Otherwise the game loses something for me. There is a balance basically, where you do go ahead and give up some of the advantages of better gear for game play, but you shouldnt discard it.

    You aren't talking about gear progression, you are talking about gear types. Heavy armor is tougher than light armor in GW2. But in real life, does standard plated function better than the same plated armor from a treasure chest or from some legendary soldier? King arthurs armor is nearly identical to the ones worn by the people of that age. Hitlers tank was just as powerful as another tank of its kind.


     

    I don't think Hitler was ever in a tank.. so that's just erronius.  My dad is a bit of a WW2 buff and I remember him teaching me stuff about the german tanks... something about them was special at the time.  Faster or simpler to fuel/repair... something like that.

    King Arthur (if you believe he existed) did have an awesome sword... it wouldn't surprise me that the sword itself had something special in it's making.  Who knows... but all the stories about the sword probably have some kernel of truth.

  • Angier2758Angier2758 Mt. Prospect, ILPosts: 1,011Member

    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    One thing I've re-learned from this thread is, like politics and religion, everyone has their own definition of makes up a themepark or sandbox.

    I never played DAoC so I can't comment on pre-defined 3 faction PvP.  I can say that what made Lineage PvP great for me was having a myriad of player defined factions (guilds and alliances made the factions) and competition for resources (bosses, drops, castle gated dungeons, etc).  There could also be consequences for losing pvp battles.

    I've played GW1 PvP and it was fun, but it certainly wasn't anywhere near the same kind of PvP that happened in first generation games like UO and Lineage.   It's more like e-sport pvp which I think of more like pong matches, really complex pong matches, but inconsequential pizza slice activities none the less.  I'm hoping there will be more consequence and depth to GW2 pvp than we saw in GW1.

    I see this game as genre evolution more than genre revolution.  I'm still going to play it, and it will be fun. I don't need a gaming revolution to have fun.


     

    3 sided PVP is good and bad.... remember how players are; they will choose the easier route.  In DAoC sometimes the weaker sides would join forces.... sometimes they'd reroll to the more populated side and make things worse... and lastly... the weaker of the two weaker sides would actually be dogpiled.

     

    The DAoC vets don't want to admit it... but it wasn't always great with 3 sided pvp.  A lot of the time one side was the "Green Party" while the dems and reps fought it out.

  • jaycejayce Atlanta, GAPosts: 133Member

     discussioin sounds vagely familar. oh yea...




    Originally posted by jayce 12/25/11 9:06:12 AM

    i mean really guys, "not quite a themepark", "but not a sandbox either." lol, just call it a playground or something and be done with it.

     80 posts in last thread: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4643632#4643632



     

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