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Originally posted by Master10K Originally posted by BadSpock Originally posted by EvilGeek
Sandbox elements are hard to find in GW2 but it certainly gives back that notion of freedom in a theme park setting, it's a theme park without rails is my take on it, it's a massive difference unto itself from what we've had from releases over the past four or five years. Those rails seem to have got tighter as the genre moved on (on not forward). As an explorer I'm really hyped by this new freedom, I won't have to go from quest giver to quest giver, from hub to hub, instead the world is my oyster, far closer to a virtual world feel than we've seen for a long time.
What really struck me from playing the demo was the fluidity of play or how organic it felt, sentiments echoed by a lot of the reviews we've had since the press beta. Tyria feels like a living breathing world because of this, the game became less and the world became more (if you get what I mean) and I was believing the world, my place in it and having crap loads of fun. Fun and accessible being the other words that hit strongly for me.
I like it.
Especially this line - "certainly gives back that notion of freedom in a theme park setting, it's a theme park without rails is my take on it"
That's my take on it aswell. No other Themepark MMORPG gives players as much freedom as Guild Wars 2. From all the the press beta footage I've seen, they all seem to do something different right after the tutorial...
In other themepark MMOS too once out of tutorial area players can go in any direction they like and start questing, exploring, PVP, crafting or whatever else they enjoy. Tera being the latest example i am sure others can come up with more examples.
To say NO other themepark MMOS offer so much freedom is a very false claim to make.
Gw2 is imo a hybrid themepark sandbox mmo. You go around and you can never tell for sure what awaits you because of the dynamic world. For those who like themepark and handholding they will find their place in personal story.
Originally posted by Nikkita Originally posted by Master10K No other Themepark MMORPG will allow you to do that many things right out the gate and that's what makes the game so amazing IMO.
And how is the reward from doing that? In nearly every themepark quests are the best source of xp, gear and also the prime source of lore, in order to get at those goodies and level up most effectively you need to get on board the questing train. Getting off that train means grinding content, no lore, no quest rewards, no context. Events in GW2 provide all of that without keeping you on rails, that's what's unique.
Originally posted by EvilGeek Originally posted by Nikkita Originally posted by Master10K Originally posted by BadSpock Originally posted by EvilGeek
And how is the reward from doing that? In nearly every themepark quests are the best source of xp, gear and also the prime source of lore, in order to get at those goodies and level up most effectively you need to get on board the questing train. Getting off that train means grinding content, no lore, no quest rewards. Events in GW2 provide all of that without keeping you on rails, that's what's unique.
Sorry but you are goign completely off topic. We are talking about features as a whole and not just questing. Only because GW2 does away with questing doesn't mean no other MMO offers the same amount of freedom to players. Apart from questing other themepark too offer exploration, pvp, personal stories, leveling, craftin etc.
The guy i replied to make it sound as if only GW2 offers all these features.
You have innovators and those who posture as innovators.Arenanet is a true innovator.
Guild Wars 2 a new breed?
Originally posted by Phelcher Originally posted by smh_alot Originally posted by BadSpock Originally posted by smh_alot Ok, I get the excitement of the article writer, but I don't get the sandbox comparison. In what way does GW2 use sandbox specific elements?? Now Arche Age, THAT I can understand that people describe it as a themepark/sandbox hybrid, with sandbox features like building your own houses, towns, keeps and ships and such. But GW2, nope, not really: best description imo would be themepark 2.0 or next-gen themepark. But still very solidly in the themepark or dev content driven branch of things.
From what I gather - GW2 feels a lot like a Skyrim kind of sandbox.. sure, there are quests and some guidance and a main plot line, but you can also just pick a direction and wander out and find all kinds of fun stuff to do, that is actually worth while.
Exploration + content.
It is upsetting when somone is using the word "Sandbox" and doesn't even know the definition (within contex), or even understand the term (within actual use, in game).
The definition of "Sandbox" has not changed, only the technology allowing it's use, has changed. It is now alot easier to build Sandbox games, BECAUSE building an Open World is much, much, easier now given the technology of the day.
Sandbox games are predicated on the fact they have 360 degree content.
Everquest back in March 16th 1999 was/is considered a Sandbox game. There was no funneling of content, mulitple ways to leave a city and multi paths & direction to head out in... given the technology @ the time. Zone walls were used, but the zones were all outward content.
When a game is predicated on inferior server technology... and the business decision to funnel content and "theme" using zones/instances due to server cost... THEN, that game becomes themepark, becausde now the developers (limited by their choice/cost of server structure) have to develop eye catching rifts/public quests, etc.. so that you as a inhabitant of their world MUST spend time looking at what the Developers specifically deveoped for you, instead of heading off in THAT direction & exploring.
Just because a Sandbox has side shows, that some people like, or enjoy doesn't make it a "themepark". Anything can have "themepark" like qualities.. only sandboxes have sandbox qualities about them.
Originally posted by Nikkita *snip*
I am talking about a single Themepark MMORPG allowing players to do all of that, right out the gate and having it all be worthwhile. You bring up TERA, which honestly has one of the most horrid newbie zones, from about levels 1-10, that anything after that would feel like a breath of fresh air. TERA doesn't seem to offer much in the realm of open world or large scale PvP for someone who just hit level 10. Mostly just dueling at that point. Also how are the battlegrounds in TERA, cause I never got to try it in the beta. Can you try them from level 10? Are they bracketed like in Rift?
Eitherway, no other MMORPG allows you to do both competitve instanced PvP from level 2 and also take part in large scale meaningful warfare, whilst making a difference and progressing your character.
Originally posted by sonoggi The people who keep rambling about the game being "overhyped" are really starting to irritate me. If you were hyped before this weekend, and are disappointed after seeing the vids, then you were seriously blind all along. In;fact, unlike TOR, GW2 is getting hyped up by the players who have actually played the game, and who can attest that ANet has actually kept every single promise. There are different kinds of hype; WAR, AoC and TOR type hype carried out by blind fanboyism and the devs themselves. And then there is GW2 hype brought on by evident promise keeping.
Is this copied and pasted from some general source for "new" MMO propaganda?
As to GW2, it's just another evolution of the same ol' same ol'. Just like everything else.
Once upon a time....
I really cannot wait for this game. I've been waiting forever (literally like three years now) for this game to come out so this is going to be an epic year!
Originally posted by RazeeksterI really cannot wait for this game. I've been waiting forever (literally like three years now) for this game to come out so this is going to be an epic year!
Almost everything anyone can think of in an MMO has been tried in one game or another (technological requirments not withstanding), its not that GW2 is doing things that are entirely new, but rather that they are bringing them together in a never before done seamless manor. This is even harder to do today than it was 8 years ago. 8 Years ago the MMO market was small and trying something new could reward you with lots of members. Today you have to invest so much money in an MMO that you have to be garanteed success, Best way to do that is copy success and try and do it just different enough to be new and interesting (caugh aion caugh).
The most revolutionary things being done in GW2 are actualy technical but since very few people appreciate them ill just shut up now.
GW2 has not 1 thing that has not been done already but thats not saying I am not sitting here f5ing my email right now. take a look at shadowbane we had every thing gw2 has and more out side the city mini game's.
BadSpock...I love the term
The way to look at this is through the investments in the MMO industry over the last 5 years.
It was much easier to go to Executives, Business Development, and Invesment folks and say:
"Our game will be an MMO, like World of Warcraft. World of Warcraft makes $150 mln a MONTH!!"
Investors wanted a piece of that pie badly....the problem is several games were crushed under deadlines and bad decisions. It is a miracle so many MMOs launched in that time period. For every game that launched we had several fail. Look at Stargate Worlds for goodness sake.
I think now MMOs will turn the corner from the WoW model we knew and grow in better directions. I mean look at how many console titles have learned from MMOs and are doing amazing because of it. Sadly MMOs never made the changes as well, they just kept trying to replicate that WoW model. Which was great for its time, but the one thing you can count on is change...even if it is something that reinvents the old and makes it new. That was kind of the point of this editorial, to show that the GW2 team are all old school players like us. They took the ideas of those games and implemented them in a great new system.
oh and in regards to Hype...In Guild Wars 2's case, there is definitely hype, but it is backed up by some amazing game play and experiences we have already had. Not just in the Beta, but the game was playable at PAX and at the NCSoft Party for NY Comicon last year. There were loads of fans who got to play. If you have demo-ed the game at an event speak up!
Leave the overhype for crappy superhero movies ....
Originally posted by BadSpock Originally posted by Bigdaddyx Originally posted by BadSpock All systems in a MMORPG are related. You can't just pluck feature X from game Y and put it into game Z. All systems and features must work well in concert with each other to be "designed well."
You are still being very vague and offered no real explanation. Why is bad for other themepark MMOS to be released for consoles but it is ok for GW2, why is it bad for other themepark MMOS to have loading screens but it is ok for GW2.
I personally do not care for these issues but it does makes you pause and think for a while to see such double standards.
I don't think there is anything bad with console gaming, and in truth I love the idea (far from confirmed) of a console version of GW2. I don't share that whole "elitist PC gamer" attitude.
As for loading screens, they are often a neccessary evil. Would I prefer to not have them? Of course. But I also like to have nice graphics and smooth game play.
If the engine can't give me all 3, I'll gladly sacrifice loading screens for better graphics with more players and smoother game play.
As with all things, it's a matter of degree - TOR goes too far in feeling like a very small closed off world, as GW1.
Is it possible to have smooth game play with great graphics and a lot of players and no loading screens between zones?
I don't know - supposedly Tera does pretty good at that.
Archeage looks to be looking good in that department too, but Tera looks to have basic quest-hub game play (despite action combat system) and Archeage also looks to have dated tab-target hot key combat and quest-hub level grinding - in addition to all the sandbox elements.
AA also has public quests(nothing like GW2 DEs but it's not just the old quest system)which are like RIFTS.To be honest AA has far more features than GW2 IMO and it's,ill use your term,a themebox MMO.
Bit laggy but here is a Rift type event in AA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09jT9GKeeuE, these are now being tested.
As for GW2 action combat ,i honestly think Tera is more action combat that GW2,hell,their is no tab targetting,it's all aiming and avoidance.
I think both Tera and GW2 have done very well where combat is concerned.I do prefer GW2 though,it's smoother and not twitchie like tera.
All in all GW2 is a great MMO and i'm an avid fan but i think if AA came out this year i would play that more than i would GW2,hell ill be able to play both.
As for that mess swtor. Well, by the end of the year it will be just another vague MMO that didn't bring anything great to the table.
One thing I've re-learned from this thread is, like politics and religion, everyone has their own definition of makes up a themepark or sandbox.
I never played DAoC so I can't comment on pre-defined 3 faction PvP. I can say that what made Lineage PvP great for me was having a myriad of player defined factions (guilds and alliances made the factions) and competition for resources (bosses, drops, castle gated dungeons, etc). There could also be consequences for losing pvp battles.
I've played GW1 PvP and it was fun, but it certainly wasn't anywhere near the same kind of PvP that happened in first generation games like UO and Lineage. It's more like e-sport pvp which I think of more like pong matches, really complex pong matches, but inconsequential pizza slice activities none the less. I'm hoping there will be more consequence and depth to GW2 pvp than we saw in GW1.
I see this game as genre evolution more than genre revolution. I'm still going to play it, and it will be fun. I don't need a gaming revolution to have fun.
MMCRPG: Massive Multiplayer Co'op Roleplaying Game. Most post-WoW games seem to fit more into this category.
New? Sorry, its not new at all. Refined? Yes.
Originally posted by BlahTeeb Originally posted by AcmeGamer I dont really consider it a new breed of mmo-rpg. I think it is doing some things right and I think most will find it a very fun experience, including myself. I would like to see a better crafting system, I am a bit concerned about that. Also I am hoping for a good economcs system as well, who knows if that one will happen. On the comments about skill > gear. While I agree that it is nice to see skill being more important then gear. I tend to have some issues with that, for me I think both are important. You can have all the skill in the world but if you are in a T-55 at 2k range at night and I am in a M1 Abrams and I even have the most basic of how to operate said M1 Abrams, you are indeed toast. Or to put it more into a medieval fantasy setting. If I am in fully fitted articulated Habsburg plate armor, wielding a well made heater and master crafted broad sword with basic training in such gear. You on the other hand are wearing a bronze age cuirass and typical gear that Perseus might have used along with say his skill, you are still fighting at a serious disadvantage, no mattter how skillful you are. So while I do think skill should always play a role in the game play, how good your gear is should be a factor. Otherwise the game loses something for me. There is a balance basically, where you do go ahead and give up some of the advantages of better gear for game play, but you shouldnt discard it.
You aren't talking about gear progression, you are talking about gear types. Heavy armor is tougher than light armor in GW2. But in real life, does standard plated function better than the same plated armor from a treasure chest or from some legendary soldier? King arthurs armor is nearly identical to the ones worn by the people of that age. Hitlers tank was just as powerful as another tank of its kind.
I don't think Hitler was ever in a tank.. so that's just erronius. My dad is a bit of a WW2 buff and I remember him teaching me stuff about the german tanks... something about them was special at the time. Faster or simpler to fuel/repair... something like that.
King Arthur (if you believe he existed) did have an awesome sword... it wouldn't surprise me that the sword itself had something special in it's making. Who knows... but all the stories about the sword probably have some kernel of truth.
Originally posted by Torvaldr One thing I've re-learned from this thread is, like politics and religion, everyone has their own definition of makes up a themepark or sandbox. I never played DAoC so I can't comment on pre-defined 3 faction PvP. I can say that what made Lineage PvP great for me was having a myriad of player defined factions (guilds and alliances made the factions) and competition for resources (bosses, drops, castle gated dungeons, etc). There could also be consequences for losing pvp battles. I've played GW1 PvP and it was fun, but it certainly wasn't anywhere near the same kind of PvP that happened in first generation games like UO and Lineage. It's more like e-sport pvp which I think of more like pong matches, really complex pong matches, but inconsequential pizza slice activities none the less. I'm hoping there will be more consequence and depth to GW2 pvp than we saw in GW1. I see this game as genre evolution more than genre revolution. I'm still going to play it, and it will be fun. I don't need a gaming revolution to have fun.
3 sided PVP is good and bad.... remember how players are; they will choose the easier route. In DAoC sometimes the weaker sides would join forces.... sometimes they'd reroll to the more populated side and make things worse... and lastly... the weaker of the two weaker sides would actually be dogpiled.
The DAoC vets don't want to admit it... but it wasn't always great with 3 sided pvp. A lot of the time one side was the "Green Party" while the dems and reps fought it out.
discussioin sounds vagely familar. oh yea...
Originally posted by jayce 12/25/11 9:06:12 AM i mean really guys, "not quite a themepark", "but not a sandbox either." lol, just call it a playground or something and be done with it.
80 posts in last thread: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4643632#4643632