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Originally posted by echolynfan Originally posted by select20 I just heard there is no raiding in this game? Is this true? I hope it's not true. I've been looking forward to this game for awhile, and if there is no raiding, I will deffinetly not play. (I have a feeling some fanbois will flame this thread to hell and back).
Best news I've heard about GW2 so far - raiding SUCKS - most boring game play mechanic ever invented. Someone here posted once that Raiding is "a hamster grind of memorized dance steps" and I so agree.
Not only does it suck but the fact that only 10% of a MMO's population (and thats being embarassingly generous) ever see end game raiding. Hell I have 2 level 50's in SWTOR now and I havnt been through 6 total dungeons let along a raid, in fact my entire guild in SWTOR has no one which is past social 1 lol.
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Why? Half the people who say this shit are bad at PvP and havn't done any competitive PvP in any game. I play every single game with competitive PvP as my main focus, yet I still find raiding to be necessary. Or not even raiding, but a challenging PvE system. Why is that? Because if more people play the game (almost all mmo players are pvers), more people will start PvPing and it will be more active. I also enjoy PvEing every once in a while. Not to mention with little to no gear progression, if you're skilled enough you'll be able to jump into very challenging raids/pve encounters with your friends/guildies.
No need to raid every single week 24/7 to get gear to progress with all your guild. Now you would only have to be skilled enough to be competent enough to raid with your guildies who raid 24/7. It's a system that has so much potential and takes out so much grind out of PvE. So if they implement very hard PvE encounters/5 mans I'll be very happy.
Originally posted by Valentina GW2 is going to get boring quickly without a real end-game. And No, WvW doesn't count and I guarantee the majority of people won't give two sh*ts about it. Nobody has cared about it in games since DAoC why would they care about it now? Do you really think ArenaNet will *really* just magically do it so much better than anyone else that it will completely enthrall a playerbase that by majority really don't care that much about PvP outside of it being a side-item to nicely compliment the rest of their gaming experience? To go from a purely PvE main game to an almost purely PvP end-game is going to be a disaster, they need to wisen up like yesterday.
"The Entire game is end game".
"The game doesn't have you play one way to the level cap, only to have you play a completely different game once you reach the cap".
The PVE game isn't filler you do until you reach the cap and either become a conditioned robot with an addiction to Raiding, roll an alt, or quit. It's not the only content, CPVP, Dungeons and WvWvW are options for people who want additional variety or just plain enjoy those modes of play. The PVE game is the meat of the game and this is only possible due to the dynamic nature of the PVE content and the way it makes the world feel alive, plus the ability to go back and experience content below your level in a meaningful manner by being dynamically scaled down in level.
It's a completely different paradigm.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Originally posted by fiontar "The Entire game is end game". "The game doesn't have you play one way to the level cap, only to have you play a completely different game once you reach the cap". It's a completely different paradigm.
GW2 is different - a lot different - in the fundamental goals/design of the game.
Sure, many things are similar to other MMOs in terms of functionality, but the design philosophy, the paradigm, is completely different.
Originally posted by Sanctum Originally posted by echolynfan Originally posted by select20 I just heard there is no raiding in this game? Is this true? I hope it's not true. I've been looking forward to this game for awhile, and if there is no raiding, I will deffinetly not play. (I have a feeling some fanbois will flame this thread to hell and back).
It looks like even the "Story Mode" 5 - man dungeons are pretty challenging and the Exploreration Mode dungeon content is supposed to be very difficult. People who like challenging dungeon content with friends will have something worth playing here. With no gear grind or gear related gating of content, plus the side-kick system which scales evryone down to the level of the dungeon, most of the barriers to people playing together unless they are in the same "tier of progression" are completely gone.
No more missing out on a five man, because you are three levels lower or higher than your guild mates who are looking for others to do dungeons with them and no more getting left out of Guild events because you don't have the right key, attunement or gear.
I think a lot of good guilds will be more about leveraging their more experienced and talented leaders to lead five man groups of less experienced, non-leadership members, rather than having the leaders forming cliques that do everything together while leaving most of the membership out in the cold.
Edit: Oh, and thanks Arenanet for individual Dungeon loot and Dungeon Tokens. No more "Dragon Points" or other convoluted loot distribution systems that always seem to benefit the few at the cost of the many and create way too much resentment and drama.
Pay attention. We don't want your stupid, outdated gameplay. We don't want your lame ass raids. We don't want your close minded thinking. And guess what, Anet doesn't want it in their game either...so get over it.
Most of the gamers attracted to GW2, do in fact want meaniningful PvP (in spite of your expert analysis). They do in fact want a lively world filled with events that spring up out of nowhere. They VERY much DO want massive server vs. server vs. server battles. And guess what, Anet wants that in their game as well.
Who are you to tell GW2 fans what we want or don't want?
For the love of all that's holy, stay with SWTOR please. Stay with your 200 million dollar lolvoiceovers. Stay with your archaic gameplay. Please.
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Lets translate, GW2 is going to be boring real quickly unless it has a final instance that you have to repeat several days a week for 6 months. Sounds ridiculous doesnt it? arguing to bite your nose of to spite your face as they say.
Ill go for GW2 model, lots of things to do, gameplay spread far anbd wide across multiple game features. Looking forward to it here from a purely PVE perspective.
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Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
First, GW1 was centered around PvP, sorry you missed that.
Funny you should mention DAOC, becuase in the GW2 videos, they even talk about how similar the WvW is to DAOC, so people will care about it. Besides, I find it silly that you think progression means aquiring items. There will still be skills and slots to open up, even at max level.
And why are you complaining about PvP, when Arenanet has divided it up for you, meaning you wont be bothered by the PvPers, at all. Trust me when I say, we PvPers are much more interested in getting our guild and server to number 1, to be the best of the 3 servers. That is our end-game, and I cant wait!!
Really hope they add raiding... its one of the things that keeps me entertained. Sure, they could do insanely hard 5 man content, but I rather be able to get a nice big group of guildies together to accomplish difficult tasks together rather then splitting up into small groups.
Originally posted by Sanctum crewthief, shut the hell up. I love all of that, but your blind following of Anet is disturbing. Stop being a stupid fanboy and start thinking objectively. Why not get the best of both worlds? Like I said, with no gear impediments, raiding would be fucking insane and be all about skill, not about who grinded every week with their guild for gear and got lucky with the rolls.
Okay, don't tell me to shut up. I am not a blind follower, but it so happens i'm fed up with all this shit you carebears keep QQing about. GW2 isn't the game you're looking for. There are literally dozens upon dozens of those types of games out there. Go play one please.
This game, much like Guild Wars, will be more PvP based endgame. I for one hate raiding....I would love it if it didn't take 3+ hours to complete some of the content. This is probably the reason I love dungeons that take less than an hour, I would rather do those every day than PvP. These days that is far to long to allocate time for gaming.
Anyways, I am going into this game planning for the server vs. server vs. server fun in the PvP world as my endgame. My hope is that this brings the guilds together of one server rather than cause some rifts between the community on who's guild is better. The thought should now be who's server is better.
Originally posted by Purutzil Really hope they add raiding... its one of the things that keeps me entertained. Sure, they could do insanely hard 5 man content, but I rather be able to get a nice big group of guildies together to accomplish difficult tasks together rather then splitting up into small groups.
I was just saying in another post, I think if you described it as 10 man instances with the exact same gamestyle and rewards as 5 man then it could be fun. The word raiding conjures up images of tiered gear grinding, progressing stats which is poison to this game.
Originally posted by crewthief Originally posted by Sanctum crewthief, shut the hell up. I love all of that, but your blind following of Anet is disturbing. Stop being a stupid fanboy and start thinking objectively. Why not get the best of both worlds? Like I said, with no gear impediments, raiding would be fucking insane and be all about skill, not about who grinded every week with their guild for gear and got lucky with the rolls.
Carebears??? I'm probobly a better PvPer than you'll ever be. What is so carebearish about wanting challenging PvE content in a game where gear isn't the reason why you're brang to challenging raids. With only skill as the reason to take you to raids/5mans/pve encounters, I would sure enjoy PvE a lot more than I have enjoyed it in other games.
You are a fanboy/blind follower. You don't even argue why the decisions Anet has taken are the right ones.
There's no game out in the market that =
- Focus on PvP
- No gear progression -> hard pve encounters
I literally play every game to PvP, yet with a PvE system that eliminates the grind and rewards skill, HELL YEAH I'LL PVE.
Full info is not release yet ithink the game gonna have raids having more than 5 pp and in 1 interview they say that thegame not gonna have mount on release wish mean later they gonna make more things like mount but not evrything will be on on release , maybe in future patch or expantion
Originally posted by Bladestrom Originally posted by Purutzil Really hope they add raiding... its one of the things that keeps me entertained. Sure, they could do insanely hard 5 man content, but I rather be able to get a nice big group of guildies together to accomplish difficult tasks together rather then splitting up into small groups.
This so much, except I'm even POINTING OUT, raiding/5mans/w/e without gear progression
I just want a PvE system that has easy-mid-hard-very hard pve encounters with no gear progression
tbh even if I play every game to PvP, I don't even like WvWvW that much. I value skill over everything. It's the reason why I like competitive, structured pvp, over world pvp and bgs.
If the PvE system on release is like the one I described above, I will most likely spend all of my time between conquest and hard pve encounters with barely any time dedicated to WvWvW unless I go with friends.
I think raiders will have to accept the fact that they will have to get their instanced raiding fix in another game.
Originally posted by Sanctum Originally posted by crewthief Originally posted by Sanctum crewthief, shut the hell up. I love all of that, but your blind following of Anet is disturbing. Stop being a stupid fanboy and start thinking objectively. Why not get the best of both worlds? Like I said, with no gear impediments, raiding would be fucking insane and be all about skill, not about who grinded every week with their guild for gear and got lucky with the rolls.
Of course you're better at PvP than I am, LOL. Is this some kind of competition or epeen contest and i'm unaware? Isn't it self-explanatory, in one of my previous posts, why I like the direction Anet is taking the game? Do I need to break it down for you? Dungeons are confirmed, scaling DEs are confirmed, elite DEs are confirmed...what's the problem? I think I know...you want it your way, you want your raid content. As I stated earlier, there are literally dozens upon dozens of games that do raids, play one of those instead. Comparatively, there are very few MMOs on the market that take into account the serious PvPer, thankfully GW2 looks to be one of them. Of course, you already know that as you've stated how amazing you are in a PvP situation...
then do so, go find a dynamic event and push it till you get till the final boss. it scales to so it doesn't matter how large your guild is you can bring your ENTIRE guild.
there not being any instances doesn't mean there is no raiding. you guys will either have to say in guild
"hey the Shatterer (or whatever boss) dynamic event is starting we should all port to <insert location> and raid it".
seriously. if this is the one thing that breaks the deal for you, go play a game that's based around raiding. hell, wait 'til copernicus comes out. schilling is supposed to be all about the raiding. GW2 is not the game for you if you want raiding. stop trying to twist it to fit your wishes. if you want a big, tough raid with all your guildies in GW2, then go make a run for another server's orb. can't beat human ingenuity for a challenge!
Most of the game is going to be open world raiding...
In the sense that most of the game is large scale group content...
with "trash" pulls that lead to bosses and loot.
All the good of raiding, none of the crap.
And I like traditional raiding (for the most part.)
Originally posted by DJJazzy I think raiders will have to accept the fact that they will have to get their instanced raiding fix in another game.
The reason this is creating consternation among so many raiders is simple, but a bit subtle.
Raiding is all about being further ahead in achievements than other players - which, conveniently, can be displayed visually through equipped gear, or through other measures like gear score. (It's not about the challenge - as has been pointed out many times, raiding is actually rather easy for most players who have the time to commit to it and who are willing to wait for someone else to figure out the encounters first.) The problem is, being ahead of everyone else can be difficult in a game where there isn't a way that is easy - if time-consuming - to do so.
At least with other new releases that have raiding content, there is an opportunity to go through the same routine: re-form the guild, play marathon sessions for a few weeks to get to cap level, then start the seven-day raiding schedule again. It's not as convenient as staying with A Certain Game That Shall Not Be Named, but it can be done. There is an expectation that it will only be a matter of time before hardcore players are standing (or floating) in front of the Auction House wearing their top-tier armor.
But if a game comes out with no raiding content, it can't be done. How do you demonstrate your superiority over other players with no clearly defined end-game content? You don't. Or you have to win PvP, which is all about skill - which poses obvious problems to any number of raiders.
So, you complain and whine that there won't be raiding content available - even if you have no intention of playing the game.
I will add that the no-raiding model is doubly challenging to egomaniacal guild leaders. Raid invitations are the currency that guild leaders use to buy the loyalty of their minions, and exclusion from raids is the hammer that guild leaders use to punish dissenters. But once players don't need raids to experience the game content, they don't need guilds - and they don't need to put up with guild dictators. If the wannabe guild dictators see a new game coming out that does not give them the opportunity to control other people, they are going to find a reason to complain.
Huh? Most of the people that like to PVP don't raid or do much PVE stuff - what are you smoking?
I've done plenty of competitive PVP on many MMO's and some really hardcore PVP stuff as well. Raiding is just memorizing stuff for gear - BORING. There are so mnay other more interesting aspects of gaming than Raiding or doing the same dungeons over and over and over again.
You also say that you find raiding "necessary" which is very telling since you didn't use the word "fun"
I play games to have fun - not do things that are "necessary" thank you.
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
Tiered Raiding can be fun, it is also one of the major flaws in MMOs today.
I was in top guild in WoW (yeah yeah whatever!), i actually studied combat and raid logs to find new ways to beat dungeons ( stupid C'Thun ), and while that was fun for me i know for a fact that for 90% of my guild people only raided to get gear and to brag, in the end no one had fun running the same dungeons over and over for gear, specially being so trivial due to most people outgearing them so heavily.
From a developers point of view it's an outdated form of deceiving the players ( ok deceiving might be a bit too much, let's call it leading them on), this might be important in games that have a monthly fee, keeping a large amount of people repeating the same exact content over and over expecting drops is a nice way to ilude them into progression...when they really aren't.
(Think of all the problems it causes to gear balance/pvp balance/old content balance/ level of entry/ organization problems and so on)
I would love something like Karazhan, it has a solid progression can be done in many different ways and in short periods of time, but old school Molten Core etc?
A.net is all about not repeating other games mistakes, so no tiered raiding.
With that said, i expect a.net to provide more avid PVE'ers with dungeons and large event that require alot of coordination and somehow i feel like they will.
The raiding i would love in GW2:
- Large scale dinamic events that are extremely hard and preety much impossible to beat except with alot of coordination.
- Adding one large dungeon that takes more then one night to finish with different wings and challenges
- Adding one dungeon that randomizes the maps and enemies (kind of like diablo)
- One open pve dungeon in the WvWvW map where the 3 factions duel it out to kill the bosses.
Originally posted by atticusbc if you want a big, tough raid with all your guildies in GW2, then go make a run for another server's orb. can't beat human ingenuity for a challenge!
but but but humans don't have scripts i can follow!
and boy wont raiders be pissed when they find out that even the hardest 5 man content wont give you uber loot .. just more unique looks.