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No raiding?

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  • VotanVotan Meriden, CTPosts: 291Member Uncommon

    Why would you want yet another reskinned game that has the same end game you have been playing for the last 12 years or more if you come from the pnp days?   If you really like end game raiding every MMO since EQ has that I am sure you can find one, if you want a "new" same old game try SWTOR or one about to release TERA.  They are both the same game you have been playing with a few gimmicks for the past 12 years only easier. 

     

    If you are time restricted and want to do end game raiding WoW is your best option, they have que'd pug raids and yes the raids are really that easy that a pug can do them.  Even if your raid group sucks you get super powers to make sure you win and get your "epics". 

     

    As for GW2 I like what I read and see, but I have been down that road one to many times, I will reserve my judgement till I actually play the game, least it will be something different, which alone makes it worth trying.

  • BossalinieBossalinie Hattiesburg, MSPosts: 683Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Vorthanion

    Originally posted by TROLL_HARD


    Originally posted by select20

    I just heard there is no raiding in this game? Is this true? I hope it's not true. I've been looking forward to this game for awhile, and if there is no raiding, I will deffinetly not play.

    (I have a feeling some fanbois will flame this thread to hell and back).

    I'm so glad there is no raiding. Every game has raiding. It's great that we can have one without it.  

     

    I'm not flaming you, dude. Just play one of the the other zillion games with raiding gear grind treadmill. 

    +1

    SWTOR tried not implementing things where were in just about all of it's previous competitors...

    /trollface

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,119Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by arieste

    But here, honestly, if you don't believe me that raiding on open world mobs with unlimited players existed, i googled "Anarchy Online Raiding"...

    AO is an 11-year-old MMO and the first i had raided in.  All the bosses referred to are uninstanced world bosses that can be attacked by any amount of players and usually were killed by 50-100 players.

    Here, take a look at this "Guide" and see if the raiding sounds "real" to you:

    http://aovault.ign.com/View.php?view=Guides.Detail&id=89

    I'm not saying GW2 will be anything like it, but as long as there are difficult mobs that require a lot of players and (i assume) provide some reward, people will band together into raids to kill them.

    Had AO actually scaling raids? I must admit I missed that, I was playing Lineage back then, AO seemed so buggy.

    AO adopted raiding long after its release.  It went many, many years wtihout it.  I believe that crap was added in during the Shadowlands expansion era.  The game was much better before that junk sank its stink into the content production line.  Before then, the primary focus of end game was PvP and crafted cybernetics.

    image
  • crewthiefcrewthief Fayetteville, NCPosts: 235Member

    Originally posted by bossalinie

    Originally posted by Vorthanion


    Originally posted by TROLL_HARD


    Originally posted by select20

    I just heard there is no raiding in this game? Is this true? I hope it's not true. I've been looking forward to this game for awhile, and if there is no raiding, I will deffinetly not play.

    (I have a feeling some fanbois will flame this thread to hell and back).

    I'm so glad there is no raiding. Every game has raiding. It's great that we can have one without it.  

     

    I'm not flaming you, dude. Just play one of the the other zillion games with raiding gear grind treadmill. 

    +1

    SWTOR tried not implementing things where were in just about all of it's previous competitors...

    /trollface

    Yes, but SWTOR has gear progression, PvP gear grinding, trinity enforcement, and rock/paper/scissors classes...GW2 does not. If that kind of content is what you're looking for, most other MMOs do it, and some do it exceptionally well. Play one of those instead. If you want something refreshingly different (refreshing for those of us who are fed up with that formula), then give GW2 a try. It really is that simple.

    Sorroe, Human Mesmer
    Jade Quarry Server

  • ariestearieste toronto, ONPosts: 3,308Member Common

    Originally posted by Vorthanion

    Originally posted by Loke666


    Originally posted by arieste

    But here, honestly, if you don't believe me that raiding on open world mobs with unlimited players existed, i googled "Anarchy Online Raiding"...

    AO is an 11-year-old MMO and the first i had raided in.  All the bosses referred to are uninstanced world bosses that can be attacked by any amount of players and usually were killed by 50-100 players.

    Here, take a look at this "Guide" and see if the raiding sounds "real" to you:

    http://aovault.ign.com/View.php?view=Guides.Detail&id=89

    I'm not saying GW2 will be anything like it, but as long as there are difficult mobs that require a lot of players and (i assume) provide some reward, people will band together into raids to kill them.

    Had AO actually scaling raids? I must admit I missed that, I was playing Lineage back then, AO seemed so buggy.

    AO adopted raiding long after its release.  It went many, many years wtihout it.  I believe that crap was added in during the Shadowlands expansion era.  The game was much better before that junk sank its stink into the content production line.  Before then, the primary focus of end game was PvP and crafted cybernetics.

    "Regular" Raiding was in AO at launch.  It had Tarasque, Mercs and other open world raid encounters that required a mass of high level players to take down for phat lewt.

     

    What was added later on were the scaling raids that the above poster mentions.  These were added with the Alien Invasion expac and remain one of the best features i've seen in a game.  I was thoroughly disappointed when AoC dropped the PvE invasion raids from their scope :(    The closest thing we've seen since then have been public quest Raids in rift.

     

    Also, the primary endgame focus wasn't PvP until after the Notum Wars expac and land control were added.  It certainly wasn't the focus at launch.    just fyi.

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2
    Currently Playing: EQ2, Firefall

  • VoiidiinVoiidiin Barrow, AKPosts: 817Member

    To me the classic idea of raiding was the dragon raids in DAoC, 1 dragon per realm and it took a herculean effort to do them. not only did 50-100 players need to organize, but we had to have consumables crafted and handed out to all the players. This was also back before Voice programs were widely used, so the raid leader had to not only play well and manage the players, but had to type the whole time to keep us all on the same page.

    Lolipops !

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,451Member Uncommon

     


    We used to play games because they were fun. MMOs have trained us that the only content worth doing is one with a item for a carrot at the end we need to be stronger so we can do harder content to get better items to be stronger and the loop never ends. GW2 carrot is fun content. You hang out with 50 people killing a dragon in a dynamic event because its fun. There is end game its just called things you enjoy doing. Not a raid we dont like but have done 30 times to get a glowy orb we really think we need but turns out we dont. Stop thinking of GW2 as the standard MMO grind but think of it the things you used to really enjoy but forgot about because you been trained to chase a carrot that got you nowhere.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,857Member Uncommon

    Personally i'm bored with the raid or die philisophy but i can see the other side of the coin.

    Many long standing guilds are so structured and revolve around the dkp/raid mentallity that this model is threatening to them and they don't know what to do.

    My advice is let it go.

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,119Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by arieste

    Originally posted by Vorthanion


    Originally posted by Loke666


    Originally posted by arieste

    But here, honestly, if you don't believe me that raiding on open world mobs with unlimited players existed, i googled "Anarchy Online Raiding"...

    AO is an 11-year-old MMO and the first i had raided in.  All the bosses referred to are uninstanced world bosses that can be attacked by any amount of players and usually were killed by 50-100 players.

    Here, take a look at this "Guide" and see if the raiding sounds "real" to you:

    http://aovault.ign.com/View.php?view=Guides.Detail&id=89

    I'm not saying GW2 will be anything like it, but as long as there are difficult mobs that require a lot of players and (i assume) provide some reward, people will band together into raids to kill them.

    Had AO actually scaling raids? I must admit I missed that, I was playing Lineage back then, AO seemed so buggy.

    AO adopted raiding long after its release.  It went many, many years wtihout it.  I believe that crap was added in during the Shadowlands expansion era.  The game was much better before that junk sank its stink into the content production line.  Before then, the primary focus of end game was PvP and crafted cybernetics.

    "Regular" Raiding was in AO at launch.  It had Tarasque, Mercs and other open world raid encounters that required a mass of high level players to take down for phat lewt.

     

    What was added later on were the scaling raids that the above poster mentions.  These were added with the Alien Invasion expac and remain one of the best features i've seen in a game.  I was thoroughly disappointed when AoC dropped the PvE invasion raids from their scope :(    The closest thing we've seen since then have been public quest Raids in rift.

     

    Also, the primary endgame focus wasn't PvP until after the Notum Wars expac and land control were added.  It certainly wasn't the focus at launch.    just fyi.



    They had a handful of raid bosses, but not raiding progression, big difference.  The loot treadmill was something added in much later as most of that was taken care of with crafting / regular loot drops in the beginning.  I have no clue what you're talking about in regards to PvP, as I participated in it from the get go.  Yes, they added more objective style PvP later on, but we were fine before it too.

    I also find it interesting that the game didn't go free to play until after they started adding the raid or die content to the game.

    image
  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,202Member Uncommon

    One of the key differences with GWII is stuff scales to the players rather than the players having to scale (gear up) to tackle the stuff. Of course that doesn't give much opportunity for epeen waving so might not appeal to 'competative' raiders. It's kind of amusing that competative raiders concider themselves speciallly 'skilled'. All that is required is tactics and time (not tactics and skill). In fact hamster (wheel running) skills are a distinct advanatge. Apart from that sublte difference pretty much agree with Zippy on the subject.

    Anet seem to have competative PvP covered maybe they should concider competative PvE? I guess that goes against their design objective of an environment that encourages co-operation.

  • bookworm438bookworm438 Detroit, MIPosts: 647Member

    To those complaining about there being no instanced raids:

    This is not Guild Wars 2 this expansion. Sorry. There are many other games out there, and I hope you find one you enjoy.

     

    To those flaming anyone about wanting and/or wondering about raids:

    There is nothing inherently wrong with raids. The idea behind them is actually pretty good. The problem, which at the same time isn't a problem, comes from the implementation into the games. I'm going to write this through MY eyes, and MY views, which will not be the same as the OP or others. So before you attack this, just remember this is coming through me, and I'm not speaking for the all gamers.

    To me the implementation of raids in most games (a la WoW) is very terribly done. The problem comes from the focus on gear and loot rather than comradey that can form as a result of the raid, and the story. In say WoW, you do raid 1, so you can do raid 2, so you can do raid 3, so you can do raid 4, so you can do raid 5 and have the best gear for that patch/expansion, so you can start over again next patch/expansion. Now if they stopped focusing on the gear progression, and focused on the story it would be a lot better in my opinion. This way raid 1 is not obsolete and completely easy once you get to raid 5.

    Now I would not mind Anet implementing instanced-raid type content into the game. In fact, I see them attempting it at some point in future expansions (no source, just my own crystal ball going off).  However, I do not want them to implement raids in such a way that those who do them have the best gear available in the game. It should still equivalent to those who just do 5 mans. I would prefer them to focus on story and the connections you can make with people while doing these raids.

    Secondly, it would probably be more enjoyable if they implemented their dynamic event system AND content scaling system AND mutliple path system into the raids (maybe transforming future dungeons into dungeons and raids through scaling). So this way, even though you might go through it 20 times there may still be something different about the raid. And then with the content scaling, for 5 people the dungeon would be similar to a dungeon. For maybe 7-10 people the dungeon would increase in difficulty, maybe even size for them. Then go up through say 25 max.

     

     

    Again to me, raids aren't bad they are just badly implemented.

  • EcocesEcoces Chicago, ILPosts: 879Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by evilastro

    Originally posted by Ecoces


    Originally posted by evilastro


    Originally posted by select20

    I just heard there is no raiding in this game? Is this true? I hope it's not true. I've been looking forward to this game for awhile, and if there is no raiding, I will deffinetly not play.

    (I have a feeling some fanbois will flame this thread to hell and back).

    No organised raids.

    again did you guys see that video i linked .....

    some have to fight the dragon

    some have to man the cannons

    some have to defend those using the cannons

    some have to kill the undead

    some have to kill the bone shields the dragon put up.

    some have to kill the dragons tendrils (so they don't pull people  on the cannons to the dragon)

    some have to defend the giant lazer thing

     

    but you're right no organized raids at all.

     

    Its not organised, its every random player in the zone coming over to help and doing various objectives.

    Not the same as organising a set raid roster of 10-40 players at 7pm for 4 nights a week to clear raid zones.

    what are you talking about? the video i posted and all those things have to be done in moment it happens. this isn't some checklist quest where its like ...

    part 1) kill the undead

    part 2) repair the cannons

    part 3) protect the cannons

    part 4) help the cannons destroy the bone walls

    ....

    ...

     

    all this stuff has to be done when it happens during the fight like any script from any raid.

  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,857Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Ecoces

    Originally posted by evilastro


    Originally posted by Ecoces


    Originally posted by evilastro


    Originally posted by select20

    I just heard there is no raiding in this game? Is this true? I hope it's not true. I've been looking forward to this game for awhile, and if there is no raiding, I will deffinetly not play.

    (I have a feeling some fanbois will flame this thread to hell and back).

    No organised raids.

    again did you guys see that video i linked .....

    some have to fight the dragon

    some have to man the cannons

    some have to defend those using the cannons

    some have to kill the undead

    some have to kill the bone shields the dragon put up.

    some have to kill the dragons tendrils (so they don't pull people  on the cannons to the dragon)

    some have to defend the giant lazer thing

     

    but you're right no organized raids at all.

     

    Its not organised, its every random player in the zone coming over to help and doing various objectives.

    Not the same as organising a set raid roster of 10-40 players at 7pm for 4 nights a week to clear raid zones.

    what are you talking about? the video i posted and all those things have to be done in moment it happens. this isn't some checklist quest where its like ...

    part 1) kill the undead

    part 2) repair the cannons

    part 3) protect the cannons

    part 4) help the cannons destroy the bone walls

    ....

    ...

     

    all this stuff has to be done when it happens during the fight like any script from any raid.

     

    You have to understand the mentallity. People don't want to play with other people, they just want to play within their own guild for control purposes.

    I know people like this. They only care about their 10-man group and nothing else.

    It's sad really.

  • FreeBooteRFreeBooteR Surrey, BCPosts: 333Member

    Funny how terminology gets turned around. Isn't the act of raiding usually done by a small agile force using hit and run tactics mostly to sack supply trains or gather intelligence of armies and the like? When large forces are employed the term campaign is usually used.

    Archlinux ftw

  • nomssnomss albany, NYPosts: 1,468Member

    There IS raiding.

  • SanctumSanctum Buenos AiresPosts: 179Member

    Originally posted by nomss

    There IS raiding.

    in the form of 5 man groups

    or DEs

     

    I'm sure there will be hard DEs and 5 mans for elite players

  • AdalwulffAdalwulff Sacramento, CAPosts: 1,152Member

    Originally posted by select20

    I just heard there is no raiding in this game? Is this true? I hope it's not true. I've been looking forward to this game for awhile, and if there is no raiding, I will deffinetly not play.

    (I have a feeling some fanbois will flame this thread to hell and back).

     

    So, if you dont  like raiding, then your a fanboi?

    We do have lots of other games that raid, but MMO's should probably have a little bit of everything, to atract lots of players. But, I dont recall GW2 ever advertising that is was a raiding game, it has always been built around PvP.

    So my question to you is, why would you expect the game to have raiding, when it never claimed too?

    image
  • ThemePorkThemePork Boston, MAPosts: 312Member

    In GW2 we don't raid scripted dragons, we raid the enemy !

  • ValentinaValentina Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,675Member Uncommon

    GW2 is going to get boring quickly without a real end-game. And No, WvW doesn't count and I guarantee the majority of people won't give two sh*ts about it. Nobody has cared about it in games since DAoC why would they care about it now? Do you really think ArenaNet will *really* just magically do it so much better than anyone else that it will completely enthrall a playerbase that by majority really don't care that much about PvP outside of it being a side-item to nicely compliment the rest of their gaming experience?

     

    To go from a purely PvE main game to an almost purely PvP end-game is going to be a disaster, they need to wisen up like yesterday.

  • echolynfanecholynfan Lancaster, PAPosts: 681Member

    Originally posted by select20

    I just heard there is no raiding in this game? Is this true? I hope it's not true. I've been looking forward to this game for awhile, and if there is no raiding, I will deffinetly not play.

    (I have a feeling some fanbois will flame this thread to hell and back).

    Best news I've heard about GW2 so far - raiding SUCKS - most boring game play mechanic ever invented. Someone here posted once that Raiding is "a hamster grind of memorized dance steps" and I so agree.

    Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Originally posted by evilastro

    Originally posted by Ecoces


    Originally posted by evilastro


    Originally posted by select20

    I just heard there is no raiding in this game? Is this true? I hope it's not true. I've been looking forward to this game for awhile, and if there is no raiding, I will deffinetly not play.

    (I have a feeling some fanbois will flame this thread to hell and back).

    No organised raids.

    again did you guys see that video i linked .....

    some have to fight the dragon

    some have to man the cannons

    some have to defend those using the cannons

    some have to kill the undead

    some have to kill the bone shields the dragon put up.

    some have to kill the dragons tendrils (so they don't pull people  on the cannons to the dragon)

    some have to defend the giant lazer thing

     

    but you're right no organized raids at all.

     

    Its not organised, its every random player in the zone coming over to help and doing various objectives.

    Not the same as organising a set raid roster of 10-40 players at 7pm for 4 nights a week to clear raid zones.

     

    Sweet, do you want to get together for a competitive match of Outlook calendar at some point, I will let you have first meeting.

     

    Another fool taking me out of context. I dont raid anymore and I dont wish to raid, but pretending that this game has raids (or that dynamic events are even in the same category as raids in terms of organisation as the OP wants them to be) is just being delusional.

    The answer to the OP is that no, the game wont have what you want, and probably never will. All games cant be everything to everyone, and for GW2 the players who actually enjoy raiding arent going to dig it.

     

  • cybersurfrcybersurfr ParadisePosts: 168Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Valentina

    GW2 is going to get boring quickly without a real end-game. And No, WvW doesn't count and I guarantee the majority of people won't give two sh*ts about it. Nobody has cared about it in games since DAoC why would they care about it now?

     

    To go from a purely PvE main game to an almost purely PvP end-game is going to be a disaster, they need to wisen up like yesterday.

    By real end-game, you mean like in SWTOR's?

  • fiontarfiontar Dana, MAPosts: 3,719Member

    Originally posted by nomss

    There IS raiding.

    There is not raiding as most people think of raiding.

    There are beautiful, well built, challenging and rewarding Dungeons, but they are limited to five-man groups.

    There are Dynamic Events in the world that will be perfect for larger, formal gatherings to tackle and will require tactics similar to a Raid Boss fight in some ways, at least by general feel and appearances.

    World vs. World will definitely require raid size, organized groups for the most difficult content.Taking down a fortress is going to require a lot of organized effort, all while facing opposition from the two opposing player factions, (the factions are players from other game servers, for those who don't know).

    There won't be Raid gear grinds, or any end game gear grind of any kind.

    It's a different game. For most MMOs, end game Raids and the carrot on the stick gear grind are the only kind of practical content a developer can offer players to keep them playing and paying. For GW2, the entire game is "End Game", due to dynamic level scaling, along with scaling XP and rewards and the dynamic nature of the game world provided by Dynamic Events. Plus, with no subscription fee, there is no need  to condition players into an addiction to a carrot on the stick treadmill in order to keep monthly fees rolling in.

    You play GW2 because it's fun.

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
    image

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member

    Originally posted by Valentina

    GW2 is going to get boring quickly without a real end-game. And No, WvW doesn't count and I guarantee the majority of people won't give two sh*ts about it. Nobody has cared about it in games since DAoC why would they care about it now? Do you really think ArenaNet will *really* just magically do it so much better than anyone else that it will completely enthrall a playerbase that by majority really don't care that much about PvP outside of it being a side-item to nicely compliment the rest of their gaming experience?

     

    To go from a purely PvE main game to an almost purely PvP end-game is going to be a disaster, they need to wisen up like yesterday.

    Go back to SWTOR troll.

     

    Might get boring for you because your silly little notions of having to have some imaginary and illusuary carrots are pipe dreams for the ADHD WoW kiddie crowd.  As for me and my own we will enjoy the F**K out of GW2 for years to come because for once a game company comes along and "get its".  In fact I plan on buying at least 10 boxes for gifts for friends since I will be saving my ass $15.00 a month in stupid fees.

     

    GW2 was neither a PvE or PvP "main" game as you stated, the idea was to offer multiple paths for gamers to partake in and from the looks of it they absolutely f**king nailed it and I guarentee you this tiutle will drown in millions of players who are interested in both style of game play.

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member

    Originally posted by Valentina

    GW2 is going to get boring quickly without a real end-game. And No, WvW doesn't count and I guarantee the majority of people won't give two sh*ts about it. Nobody has cared about it in games since DAoC why would they care about it now? Do you really think ArenaNet will *really* just magically do it so much better than anyone else that it will completely enthrall a playerbase that by majority really don't care that much about PvP outside of it being a side-item to nicely compliment the rest of their gaming experience?

     

    To go from a purely PvE main game to an almost purely PvP end-game is going to be a disaster, they need to wisen up like yesterday.

     

    I disagree. PvP never gets boring for those who love it. Its why people are still playing GW1 today, and why FPS and fighting games are successful online with nothing but titles and esteem on offer.

    I do think that the PvE side wont keep typical MMO players interested unless they enjoy PvP though, but theres not much they can do about that unless they turn it into a gear grind, which most PvP players dont want.

     

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