Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

I don't know why anybody is surprised that this current Xpac failed compare to the others

MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon
Cataclysm featured no new classes, no new professions (Archeology doesn't count), and more shallow trees rather than deeper trees. The only content that they gave us was Aesthetic -new zones and new races, but nothing ~Different~ to do in them.




I don't know why anybody is surprised at the results of this xpac. I like WoW for years, but this xpac bore me the most. So many changes went into play, which actually made the game feel worst.



for example, the change that Blizzard made to the PvP zone, right before CAT patch, was a huge killer blow to the players that enjoyed that kind of gameplay from WoW in WoTLK. Now I have to wait in a queue, because my faction has two big of a population. That's a 2+hour wait here people,,, just to do something I may enjoy. The talent trees were made even more shallow.



also what was the point of making brand new zones over the other Vanilla WoW zones, if these zones have no effect at all on max level characters. Most of the new map was for LOW LEVEL CHARACTERS!!! they could have at least added a Level Scaling feature to the game, so high level characters get some kind of enjoyment out of the new lower level areas.



also CAT was suppose to be about the War between the HORDE AND ALLIANCE, yet were are the improvements to the PvP? The new Battlegrounds felt more like revamps of older BattleGrounds rather than the new deal.



new races are nothing when you have nothing new to play with them. Hasn't Blizzard learned this by now from TBC? come on!!!!


Blizzard added nothing new.




it's pretty common sense here. CAT failed because the developers got complacent. If you not going to add anything new with the game, then yeah, they're going to lose millions of Subscribers.



just as well, anyway. Guild Wars 2 looks amazing !! Maybe Blizzard should have copy Anet, now with MoP, or in the near future.

image

«1

Comments

  • ZecktorinZecktorin Bloomingdale, MIPosts: 231Member

    To be honest I think this expansion was to make the game more interesting to new players... thats why they mostly just changed the vanilla world. Most people quit WoW before level 10. I mean it did work lots of people who never played before are joining evne today. MoP is suppose to be aimed for higer level player with more stuff to do at high levels. Such as challange mode dungeons, pet battles, group secnarios.

     

    Cata was the worst of the xpacs, but I actually think MoP will be pretty good. Seeing as how Deathwing was the last true great evil and as the aspects put it " the tiem of the mortals is arriving."

    Cata did do some good things.... the classes have never been this close to balanced, with hunters being the lowest only by like 3 to 4%.

    MoP is really the breaking point for WoW... if they do it right more players will join and vets will come back. If they do it wrong however I beleive it may lose alot of subs, but it will never truly die.

     

    SWTOR and Rift are good alternatives, but they do not yet have the polish that WoW has. GW2 howver dosen't really sound interesting to me.... No quests and no raids/dungeons... the whole entire game is endgame secnario only really works with sandboxes and GW2  is deffently not a sandbox. Its going to be at max level you do nothing but areanas and instanced pvp  just like the first one. This isnt a bad thing however, but lets face it most MMO players play for PVE content rather than PVP.

  • ShadoedShadoed BirminghamPosts: 1,499Member

    Firstly, who considers it a 'Failure'?

    So apart from the new level cap, complete overhaul of the entire game world, about 3500 new quests, seven new dungeons, four new raids, overhaul of the glyph system, acheology (the non profession), two new races including new starting zones for other existing races and  the major cities revamped, what have the roman's......erm Blizzard ever done for us?!?

    Given all of the stuff above, what were you expecting? It is still world of warcraft, it is still essentially the same game that was released back in 2004, but for me given a whole new lease of life. Running a new character with the streamlined quest chains (love the westfall quest chains) was a whole new experience in itself and having such a new experience in a game this old was worth the expansion for me as it was.

    Not sure where, "most of the new map was for low level characters" bit comes from as nearly all of the 'new' areas were for the move from 80-85, where as most of the re-vamp was to smooth out the levelling process, for example, not having to run your character all the way from stormwind to southshore just to get through the next 3-4 levels.

    Is the game losing some subs, yep, but i am still enjoying it and to me that is all that matters so as for the expansion being a 'failure', well it is really a matter of personal opinion rather than fact as i would be at a loss if any company selling 3.3Mill copies of their latest expansion in 24hrs considered that a failure. As far as GW2 is concerned, well how many times have games 'looked good' in the past 8 years? Let's wait until it hits before we pass judgement on that one.

    It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.

  • ZecktorinZecktorin Bloomingdale, MIPosts: 231Member

    Originally posted by jason_webb

    Firstly, who considers it a 'Failure'?

    So apart from the new level cap, complete overhaul of the entire game world, about 3500 new quests, seven new dungeons, four new raids, overhaul of the glyph system, acheology (the non profession), two new races including new starting zones for other existing races and  the major cities revamped, what have the roman's......erm Blizzard ever done for us?!?

    Given all of the stuff above, what were you expecting? It is still world of warcraft, it is still essentially the same game that was released back in 2004, but for me given a whole new lease of life. Running a new character with the streamlined quest chains (love the westfall quest chains) was a whole new experience in itself and having such a new experience in a game this old was worth the expansion for me as it was.

    Not sure where, "most of the new map was for low level characters" bit comes from as nearly all of the 'new' areas were for the move from 80-85, where as most of the re-vamp was to smooth out the levelling process, for example, not having to run your character all the way from stormwind to southshore just to get through the next 3-4 levels.

    Is the game losing some subs, yep, but i am still enjoying it and to me that is all that matters so as for the expansion being a 'failure', well it is really a matter of personal opinion rather than fact as i would be at a loss if any company selling 3.3Mill copies of their latest expansion in 24hrs considered that a failure. As far as GW2 is concerned, well how many times have games 'looked good' in the past 8 years? Let's wait until it hits before we pass judgement on that one.

    This ^^ and the game isn't losing as many subs as people think it always loses alot at the end of a xpac when MoP comes bakc out tons of more players will resub along with new players coming.

  • TortanicTortanic Goodsprings, NVPosts: 85Member

    On my "Medium" population server this morning there were 70 people online Horde side, roughly double that alliance.

    So 300~ people for "medium" population by the server list.


    The new 5 mans are honestly pretty solid, but two somewhat-interesting dungeons at the ass end of an expansion doesn't count for a lot.

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    Cata actually made a lot of sense from a player retention angle.

    '30% of players get to level 10 and up' - Blizz CEO

    Cata was designed to get that '30%' number up. I've heard an internal number of 'aiming for 60%'.

    It had good intentions and a sound business logic behind it.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • slickbizzleslickbizzle Matthews, NCPosts: 464Member

    For me personally, it was about dreading doing the same end-game formula over and over again. I raided/pvped for years and I simply got to the point that I dreaded getting on the treadmill all over again. Going from 80-85 was pretty cool. The new zones were good. 

  • TortanicTortanic Goodsprings, NVPosts: 85Member


    Originally posted by jpnz
    Cata actually made a lot of sense from a player retention angle.
    '30% of players get to level 10 and up' - Blizz CEO
    Cata was designed to get that '30%' number up. I've heard an internal number of 'aiming for 60%'.
    It had good intentions and a sound business logic behind it.


    While true, is it worth alienating your longterm fans and playerbase?

    To be honest, the primary reason WOW succeeded was it had fans from Diablo 1, 2, Starcraft, Warcraft 1, 2, and 3 to draw from.

    The problem with leveling is quality is closely tied to effort vs. reward, once streamlined thus removing all effort - you also remove all sense of reward and motivation, then the issue compounds upon itself.

  • MeltdownMeltdown Home, NHPosts: 1,184Member Uncommon

    I agree that Cataclysm really missed the mark for existing WoW players. They made a few major mistakes in my mind:

     

    1. Focusing on adding content to attract new players instead of content aimed to please your 10-million+ subscriber base

    Numbers do not lie, more players left than joined. Even if the actual numbers are less than what people are claiming it is, they have admitted themselves that the subscribers numbers are down. 

     

    2. Putting difficulty back into a game that you already removed.

    I think Blizzard pulled the rug out from under their playerbase by taking them from WoTLK blazing through heroics instances (talking 10 minute runs with a good warrior tank). Then fast forward to Cataclysm and heroics were essentially 5-person raids, stand in the wrong spot and die instantly. If they wanted to appease the hardcore crowds then make a new tier of dungeon running for them under a different name.

     

    3. No new classes

    Nothing gets people to come back to a game, or to reroll like a new class. Look at how well they implemented DKs in WoTLK, starting at lvl 55 was ingenius to lure players in. 

     

    The changes to the talent trees, existing pvp zones, tradeskills felt very cosmetic. And not to mention another version of Capture the Flag, oh wahoo, meanwhile Rift introduces Black Garden. 

     

    Cataclysm was disappointing to me, mostly because I loved WoTLK so much towards the end of their WoTLK content patches. If you are 10-million+ subs strong with a certain formula, add to the formula, don't rewrite it! MoP could also be good, if they don't make the same mistakes...

    "They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Zecktorin

    Cata was the worst of the xpacs, but I actually think MoP will be pretty good. Seeing as how Deathwing was the last true great evil and as the aspects put it " the tiem of the mortals is arriving."

    What about the burning Legion?

     

    I'm sure there are some pretty bad Titans out there as well.

     

    As a long time player, I resented getting only 5 levels and a handful of zones.  They spent our money attracting new players rather than giving existing ones a full expansion worth of leveling content.

  • ZecktorinZecktorin Bloomingdale, MIPosts: 231Member

    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

    Originally posted by Zecktorin



    Cata was the worst of the xpacs, but I actually think MoP will be pretty good. Seeing as how Deathwing was the last true great evil and as the aspects put it " the tiem of the mortals is arriving."

    What about the burning Legion?

     

    I'm sure there are some pretty bad Titans out there as well.

     

    As a long time player, I resented getting only 5 levels and a handful of zones.  They spent our money attracting new players rather than giving existing ones a full expansion worth of leveling content.

    Oh I agree with the lat part of your statement, but the Burning Legion isnt really a threat no more and I tihnk the Titans will be raid bosses and not some big threat. Deathwing really was the true last threat to Azeroth. However the aspect of time forsaw himself becoming the leader of one of the flights and bringing forth the end of the world... which may be the final xpac when we hit that 100 number for lv. Blizzard said they will stop at 100.

  • SouldrainerSouldrainer Elmer, NJPosts: 1,857Member

    Cata failed becaise Vanilla-Wrath embraced all types of gamers, but Cata alienated casuals.  Whoever is at the helm for the game right now, I am sorry, but they are just stupid.  WoW's trademark used to be not alienating anybody, then Cata hit.

    Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.

  • ShadoedShadoed BirminghamPosts: 1,499Member

    Originally posted by Souldrainer

    Cata failed becaise Vanilla-Wrath embraced all types of gamers, but Cata alienated casuals.  Whoever is at the helm for the game right now, I am sorry, but they are just stupid.  WoW's trademark used to be not alienating anybody, then Cata hit.

    Don't agree at all, as i am about as casual a player as you will find and i have been very much at home with Cataclysm due to the new areas to explore while levelling new characters, the dungeon progression is fine and to be honest it even pulled me into doing a little raiding which i haven't done for a while.

    It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Souldrainer

    Cata failed becaise Vanilla-Wrath embraced all types of gamers, but Cata alienated casuals.  Whoever is at the helm for the game right now, I am sorry, but they are just stupid.  WoW's trademark used to be not alienating anybody, then Cata hit.

    Quite the reverse is true.

    Cata introduces LFR (looking for raid) so now everyone can experience the content.

    They made the dungeons in LFG give you a 15% buff to all your stats so you can do the heroics easier.

    They made it so more CC can effect more things longer easier and not start combat when you CCed things, you can now sheep things without it starting combat for instance.

    And these are just a few of the things they did in Cata to make it so EVERYONE could enjoy their game.

     

    UNLIKE BC, where only 3%ish of their top players managed to down Sunwell at all?

    Anyone who wants to can kill Death wing.

  • FennrisFennris White Plains, NYPosts: 273Member

    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    Originally posted by Souldrainer

    Cata failed becaise Vanilla-Wrath embraced all types of gamers, but Cata alienated casuals.  Whoever is at the helm for the game right now, I am sorry, but they are just stupid.  WoW's trademark used to be not alienating anybody, then Cata hit.

    Quite the reverse is true.

    Cata introduces LFR (looking for raid) so now everyone can experience the content.

    They made the dungeons in LFG give you a 15% buff to all your stats so you can do the heroics easier.

    They made it so more CC can effect more things longer easier and not start combat when you CCed things, you can now sheep things without it starting combat for instance.

    And these are just a few of the things they did in Cata to make it so EVERYONE could enjoy their game.

     

    UNLIKE BC, where only 3%ish of their top players managed to down Sunwell at all?

    Anyone who wants to can kill Death wing.

     

    When Cata released, it did not have a functional LF-Raid feature.  And the cata dungeons were not even available in LFG until you had banged out a lot of the Cata content (the water world was very isolated and very long) and had a high enough "gear score".  The dungeons were considered harder to run than most of the level 70's dungeons in normal modes.  The initial cata experience was not casual friendly at all.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Originally posted by Meltdown

     

    2. Putting difficulty back into a game that you already removed.

    I think Blizzard pulled the rug out from under their playerbase by taking them from WoTLK blazing through heroics instances (talking 10 minute runs with a good warrior tank). Then fast forward to Cataclysm and heroics were essentially 5-person raids, stand in the wrong spot and die instantly. If they wanted to appease the hardcore crowds then make a new tier of dungeon running for them under a different name.



     

     

    This lesson i think they have learned. The new Twilight dungeons are much easier, and also the LFR raid.

  • expressoexpresso mePosts: 2,183Member Uncommon

    Cata sold more copies in the first month than any of the previous expansion.. yeah real failure.

    TBH everyone has an opinion just cus some ones thinks cata failed does not make it true.  I loved cata, but Wrath so far has been my fav expac.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Zecktorin

    Originally posted by FrodoFragins


    Originally posted by Zecktorin



    Cata was the worst of the xpacs, but I actually think MoP will be pretty good. Seeing as how Deathwing was the last true great evil and as the aspects put it " the tiem of the mortals is arriving."

    What about the burning Legion?

     

    I'm sure there are some pretty bad Titans out there as well.

     

    As a long time player, I resented getting only 5 levels and a handful of zones.  They spent our money attracting new players rather than giving existing ones a full expansion worth of leveling content.

    Oh I agree with the lat part of your statement, but the Burning Legion isnt really a threat no more and I tihnk the Titans will be raid bosses and not some big threat. Deathwing really was the true last threat to Azeroth. However the aspect of time forsaw himself becoming the leader of one of the flights and bringing forth the end of the world... which may be the final xpac when we hit that 100 number for lv. Blizzard said they will stop at 100.

    I don't think you could be more wrong.  Arthas was put on the backburner until WOTLK.  Illidan until BC.  Deathwing was just pulled out of Blizzards butt and was a  great excuse to revamp the old content. 

     

    The Burning Legion is far from done.  Their two leaders are still out there as well as their homeworld and a lot more forces then were in Outland.

     

    The Titans are also supposed to come back but may be too powerful as enemies.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common

    Originally posted by Zecktorin

    Cata was the worst of the xpacs, but I actually think MoP will be pretty good. Seeing as how Deathwing was the last true great evil and as the aspects put it " the tiem of the mortals is arriving."

    one of WOWs greatest evils is still out there

    http://www.wowwiki.com/Sargeras

    Sargeras is the creator and leader of the Burning Legion.

    In an interview to Chris Metzen and Micky Neilson they said that "he's out there somewhere", that "you can’t put him down" and "he’s not going to stay down for long". At last Metzen said: I'd be very disappointed in us if we didn’t leverage him fully.[11]

  • neorandomneorandom bev hills, CAPosts: 1,681Member

    havent enjoyed wow since vanilla, so havent played since vanilla, long story short, this new xpac looks like they stole the movie kung fu panda into the game, just like all the other crap they ripped off from the media and shows like star trek.

  • VolkmarVolkmar EspooPosts: 2,496Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Cataclysm featured no new classes, no new professions (Archeology doesn't count), and more shallow trees rather than deeper trees. The only content that they gave us was Aesthetic -new zones and new races, but nothing ~Different~ to do in them.





    I don't know why anybody is surprised at the results of this xpac. I like WoW for years, but this xpac bore me the most. So many changes went into play, which actually made the game feel worst.



    for example, the change that Blizzard made to the PvP zone, right before CAT patch, was a huge killer blow to the players that enjoyed that kind of gameplay from WoW in WoTLK. Now I have to wait in a queue, because my faction has two big of a population. That's a 2+hour wait here people,,, just to do something I may enjoy. The talent trees were made even more shallow.



    also what was the point of making brand new zones over the other Vanilla WoW zones, if these zones have no effect at all on max level characters. Most of the new map was for LOW LEVEL CHARACTERS!!! they could have at least added a Level Scaling feature to the game, so high level characters get some kind of enjoyment out of the new lower level areas.



    also CAT was suppose to be about the War between the HORDE AND ALLIANCE, yet were are the improvements to the PvP? The new Battlegrounds felt more like revamps of older BattleGrounds rather than the new deal.



    new races are nothing when you have nothing new to play with them. Hasn't Blizzard learned this by now from TBC? come on!!!!



    Blizzard added nothing new.





    it's pretty common sense here. CAT failed because the developers got complacent. If you not going to add anything new with the game, then yeah, they're going to lose millions of Subscribers.



    just as well, anyway. Guild Wars 2 looks amazing !! Maybe Blizzard should have copy Anet, now with MoP, or in the near future.



    I think you forgot that Blizzard did NOT just revamp the world with Cata, they also revamped ALL classes, adding specs key abilities at level 10 and making each spec much more distinct from the others instead of having to wait until level 40-50ish to call yourself a proper "fire mage" for example.

    But I DO agree that Cata zones felt disjointed. Each one was cool on its own, yes and they were connected by the overall cataclysm story, yes.... but there was no unifying theme like Outlands or Northrend had and I think that hurt them overall.

    But MoP will bring it back, there is an unifying theme there and a new class... plus a new race and many new play modes, so it seems everyone will get what they want soon

    "If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"



  • I think Cataclysm was the best expansion yet, because it renewed a lot of the stuff that had grown old and stale, and also managed to bring difficulty and fun back into the game. Unfortunately they completely ruined it, like WotLK, by nerfing the difficulty into oblivion. What's the point of a hard mode dungeon if you're guaranteed to win even if you get a full group of retards?

    I was especially disappointed and quit because I felt conned by Blizzard. The main reason I bought the game was because of how Blizzard proudly proclaimed difficulty would be coming back, only to do a complete 180 on thieir word by having all the difficult dungeons nerfed to high Hell a few weeks after I dinged 85 on my Worgen.

  • ShaunJ1380ShaunJ1380 evansville, INPosts: 77Member

    Originally posted by Meltdown

     2. Putting difficulty back into a game that you already removed.

    I think Blizzard pulled the rug out from under their playerbase by taking them from WoTLK blazing through heroics instances (talking 10 minute runs with a good warrior tank). Then fast forward to Cataclysm and heroics were essentially 5-person raids, stand in the wrong spot and die instantly. If they wanted to appease the hardcore crowds then make a new tier of dungeon running for them under a different name.

     



    1000xthis. Blizzard has even admited it. I'm too lazy to find a source. Google, "blizzard admits cata too hard" and you will find it.

    I was preaching to the heavens at the start of cata. This is too hard! Was it too hard for me? No, but it was too hard. You have to tune things so captain derp can still fumble his way through an instance. No one, not even those of us who want a challenge, feels like running a heroic for 1.5 hours try to beat a boss. That's what raiding is for. It's why those of us looking for a challenge raid.

    I still to this day see groups wiping on heroic GB. Especially the DPS check on the last boss. No Mr. Derp. You really can't do 2k on this boss and expect me to carry you. I have been recently gearing a hunter. It was my 20k to a 2k (how?!?) and a 4k. I just can't carry that. I'm not amazing!

    The new HoT heroics were toned down. They seem about right. Just hard enough that Mr. Derp will wipe the group, but not so hard that Mr. Derp can't possible ride my coat tails to victory.

    I said all along that those of us with our rose colored vanilla glasses were remembering it wrong. Sure, we have fond memories, but no one stops to think about how horrible it was to spam "LFG!" for 45 minutes, just to have Mr. Derp wipe you over and over because he didn't know how to kite on his shiny new hunter.

    I will take Wrath style WoW over any style of WoW any day!

  • jeremyjodesjeremyjodes antioch, ORPosts: 679Member

    You can't make blizzard stop changing the game. I thought that the throngs of angry quiters would make them see the light or error of their ways. but they don't care they wont stop rebuilding the game each xpac. so when you finally wake up and see that pandas are going to be part of game world you sit back and go well cool then lets see how this goes.

    What I want in WoW and what the devs want are very different. they get paid with player money to make the game the way they are told to make it. Right now I love transmog and LFR and have been soling old raid content with my pally. so i'm pretty happy. if they keep allowing me to have options then I will keep playing.

    image

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,943Member Uncommon

    Most MMOs have better and worse Xpacs. If you look on the games with many like EQ you will see that 2/3 is pretty bad and that sounds about right for Wow as well.

    It is not really a problem, the problem is that Blizzard make so few expansions compared to many other MMOs that a bad one have to last a longtime. In EQ you know there will be a new expansion 9 months later so you can live with a low level expansion.

    Wow is kinda odd, 90% of the game is low level stuff that people play for a few weeks and making a low level expansion that have to last 2 years were a misstake. On the plus side is Blizzard good with patching in new content so it could be worse.

    But anyways, I think Blizzard needs to pick up the pace with releasing expansions, it isn´t like they can´t afford to hire in some more people if that is what it takes. One every year is not really that hard.

  • tordurbartordurbar Alexandria, VAPosts: 429Member

    I too am a casual and I left WOW after CATA (after 6 years of sub). To me the breaking point was the simplification of the Talent system. Not only are there fewer talants to tinker with but you are forced to go with the vision that Blizz had for the class and talent tree. I went to RIFT. After having the ability in that game to be almost whatever you want to be I just can't return to WOW no matter how much nostalgia pushes me. I have gone back to WOW from time to time and created low leve toons but as soon as I hit level 10 and that new talent system I quit. What makes me even sadder is that MOP is going to trim the talent tree even further!!! I really enjoyed WOW for 6 years but seeing where it is now and where it is headed - I am done with it.

«1
Sign In or Register to comment.