Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Greg Z of BioWare kinda confirms TOR is essentially a 'WoW clone'

2

Comments

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,931Member Uncommon

    The quote is old and vague.  He doesn't exactly specify what these "rules" are.  If you want to make a themepark MMO that will sell and get subscribers you do need to use them as a baseline right now.  The thing is that SWTOR isn't nearly as feature rich and can't really attract people that still like WOW. 

     

    GW2 may break the mold, but it also may not be nearly as successful as it is a B2P game.

  • NasherUKNasherUK Secret cavePosts: 476Member Common

    A lot of people posting saying the game is just a wow clone clearly have not played it.  Also TOR has been out 2 months and already has FAR more content than wow did for about 2 years...

     

    Appart from some basic content that people expect, the game is very different from wow.  It feels like KOTOR as you would expect.  The combat is far more tactical than anything in wow and the whole game has a different feel to it (which a lot of wow fanbois just cant handle, because its actually challening).

     

    Also people seem to have forgot that WOW is a dumbed down clone of EQ, almost all the content in wow was taken from earlier games.  It's just that those earlier games were in the days when MMORPGs were not mainstream so not many played them.

  • k-damagek-damage ParisPosts: 738Member

    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    Kotaku should stop recycling news...

    :-(

    This is not recycling, as the article was written by a kotaku member (myself, in that case).

    I used that quote as an introduction to a more general rant about creativity in MMOs ;-)

    I also wrote the rant in this very site's Pub section (http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/341041/published-In-case-of-Doubt-copy-WoW-a-message-to-MMO-studios.html).

     

     


    Originally posted by NasherUK

    A lot of people posting saying the game is just a wow clone clearly have not played it.  Also TOR has been out 2 months and already has FAR more content than wow did for about 2 years...

     

    Appart from some basic content that people expect, the game is very different from wow.  It feels like KOTOR as you would expect.  The combat is far more tactical than anything in wow and the whole game has a different feel to it (which a lot of wow fanbois just cant handle, because its actually challening).

     

    Also people seem to have forgot that WOW is a dumbed down clone of EQ, almost all the content in wow was taken from earlier games.  It's just that those earlier games were in the days when MMORPGs were not mainstream so not many played them.

    Just FYI, I have 4 chars in swtor : lvl 47 warrior, lvl 30 Agent, and lvl 20 Inqui + lvl 20 Bounty Hunter. Plus I did my homework and read carefully all the classes skills/trees on torhead, for the sake of not jumping on a misguided judgement.

    Anyway the article was not specially directed at Bioware, but I have to admit that the poor guy did serve me the opportunity to point at the problem on a silver plate.

    Even with the most emphasis I could give, I'm sorry but the combat is absolutely not more tactical than WoW. I won't start an argument fight here, but you should then play WoW a bit more to see that absolutely every skill in swtor can be found in WoW. Except that WoW has more skills overall. :)

    Combat mechanics in WoW, as boring as they could get over time, are also still more varied than swtor (except maybe for Mage). Nt even talking about swtor talent trees, which are nearly the same for all types of role (dps, heal, tank), and of course completely copied from WoW. I understand that WoW did copy some stuff from EQ, but for a 2012 huge budget game like swtor, I would really have expected more creativity.

    (p.s : been playing WoW since Vanilla too, so I had the experience to compare both game overall skill mechanics)

    ***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****

  • Timeout77Timeout77 DarksideofthemoonPosts: 177Member

    By this time everyone should Know that Bioware Devs are a bunch of drones.. If anyone had botherd like I did. To listen to what these Retards were saying when the game was in development. They could have saved themselves the trubble to pick up this title. I knew from day ONE.. when they marched in all hyped up at E3 that OMG how epicly will not this FAIL.

    And personaly I have ben ROFL for months now. I mean the SWTOR offical forums are Hilarious. And I must thank all the people that are posting there for making my life much more FUN. Its better then watching a sop or comedy show on TV. Its real life Comedy DRAMA and its Awsome...

    Fact is this game have given me so much joy without even having to Purchase a copy.. So thank you BIOWARE for proving once more that people can be really STUPID and Clueless.

  • k-damagek-damage ParisPosts: 738Member

    Also, the thing to retain from that quote is not its "age", but the fact that as ChicagoCub wrote, it means that basically a huge developer simply gives up on trying to find new ideas. And as he wrote too, it's very preoccupying about the future of MMOs.

    ***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****

  • Cod_EyeCod_Eye jarrowPosts: 1,016Member

    Originally posted by NasherUK

    A lot of people posting saying the game is just a wow clone clearly have not played it.  Also TOR has been out 2 months and already has FAR more content than wow did for about 2 years...

     

    Appart from some basic content that people expect, the game is very different from wow.  It feels like KOTOR as you would expect.  The combat is far more tactical than anything in wow and the whole game has a different feel to it (which a lot of wow fanbois just cant handle, because its actually challening).

     

    Also people seem to have forgot that WOW is a dumbed down clone of EQ, almost all the content in wow was taken from earlier games.  It's just that those earlier games were in the days when MMORPGs were not mainstream so not many played them.

    I hate to break it to you kid but it is a WoW clone, BW admit it, players know it except fanbois like you.  Yes WoW did copy EQ and a bunch of other games to, other than EQ.  SWtor challenging, you might be able to kid yourself, but you wont kid other players, so challenging that people were level capped half way through the first 30 days that came with the box,  I have never as a casual player been able to reach level cap so fast in an MMO, I have never been able to solo an MMO so easly as I did with SWtoR,  if you call that challenging then you surely havnt played many other MMO's in your life.  I like many other players was hyped to play and sink my teeth into SWtoR, I was actually more dissapointed with it than I was with FFXIV, as dire as that game was, it was more challenging.

  • Timeout77Timeout77 DarksideofthemoonPosts: 177Member

    Originally posted by NasherUK

    A lot of people posting saying the game is just a wow clone clearly have not played it.  Also TOR has been out 2 months and already has FAR more content than wow did for about 2 years...

     

    Appart from some basic content that people expect, the game is very different from wow.  It feels like KOTOR as you would expect.  The combat is far more tactical than anything in wow and the whole game has a different feel to it (which a lot of wow fanbois just cant handle, because its actually challening).

     

    Also people seem to have forgot that WOW is a dumbed down clone of EQ, almost all the content in wow was taken from earlier games.  It's just that those earlier games were in the days when MMORPGs were not mainstream so not many played them.

    Havent seen Fanboy Tantrums like this, since it was naptime at preeschool.....

  • ste2000ste2000 londonPosts: 4,706Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DeaconX

    I was reading this article and when I got to the quote by Greg Z of BioWare, I was kinda sad.  It's basically admitting they went at SWTOR as a WoW clone, as what he seems to understand is WoW is how all MMO's should be...

    Article: http://kotaku.com/5884948/stop-copying-world-of-warcraft-start-making-a-better-mmo

    Quote:

    "It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."

     

    I've met the man briefly.  He's a genuinely sweet man.  But I must respectfully disagree.... then again, I'm just a lowly writer and he's ballin' in the game's industry like there's no tomorrow so...

     

    I guess numbers speaks volumes................all he has to do is to look at Swtor subscription in 2 months time to verify his theory was wrong.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member

    Originally posted by ste2000

    I guess numbers speaks volumes................all he has to do is to look at Swtor subscription in 2 months time to verify his theory was wrong.

    I simply do not understand that mentality. I suppose if you want your game to simply "get by" you can do that. But if you want the game to have any long term success and subs in the millions why would you want to essentially copy another game? Once the initial thrill wears off aren't many simply going to go back to the game they copied or they came from since in all likelihood the older game will have a huge amount of content and things available in it that a new game is simply not going to have?

    I mean if they were the first to try then I might see their point but they aren't. Didn't work for the others so not sure why they thought it would be different for them.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • ChilliesauceChilliesauce MelbournePosts: 559Member

    What could be the purpose behind re hashing an old news from last year which was discussed and dissected by community for a long period of time over a very lenghty thread? some answers are so obvious.

    image

  • TyvolusNextTyvolusNext Gimpy, NVPosts: 192Member

    Originally posted by DeaconX

    I was reading this article and when I got to the quote by Greg Z of BioWare, I was kinda sad.  It's basically admitting they went at SWTOR as a WoW clone, as what he seems to understand is WoW is how all MMO's should be...

    Article: http://kotaku.com/5884948/stop-copying-world-of-warcraft-start-making-a-better-mmo

    Quote:

    "It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."

     

    I've met the man briefly.  He's a genuinely sweet man.  But I must respectfully disagree.... then again, I'm just a lowly writer and he's ballin' in the game's industry like there's no tomorrow so...

     

    Still, I look forward to GW2/TSW where the developers looked at WoW and decided "nah, that's not our bible or blueprint."

    I used to really enjoy Bioware games back in late 90s up to DA:O basically.  This sounds like typical corporate thinking.  It is the same thing, IMO, if every burger joint in the US said "McDonalds is wildly successful, its dumb if you dont do it like they do."

     

    pathetic.

  • TyvolusNextTyvolusNext Gimpy, NVPosts: 192Member

    Originally posted by Chilliesauce

    What could be the purpose behind re hashing an old news from last year which was discussed and dissected by community for a long period of time over a very lenghty thread? some answers are so obvious.

    it's news to me.  Sorry if we dont all keep up on things like you do.

  • NasherUKNasherUK Secret cavePosts: 476Member Common

    Originally posted by biggarfoot   I hate to break it to you kid but it is a WoW clone, BW admit it, players know it except fanbois like you.  Yes WoW did copy EQ and a bunch of other games to, other than EQ.  SWtor challenging, you might be able to kid yourself, but you wont kid other players, so challenging that people were level capped half way through the first 30 days that came with the box,  I have never as a casual player been able to reach level cap so fast in an MMO, I have never been able to solo an MMO so easly as I did with SWtoR,  if you call that challenging then you surely havnt played many other MMO's in your life.  I like many other players was hyped to play and sink my teeth into SWtoR, I was actually more dissapointed with it than I was with FFXIV, as dire as that game was, it was more challenging.

    You can hit the level cap in wow in under 3 days by grinding their repetative and dull quests.  How fast you can level is nothing to do with how hard the game is though.

    In wow the only hard content is top-tier heroic 25 man bosses, this is part of why people are leaving it in bus loads.  Another reason is kung-fu panda being the focus of the next expansion.  Like most of the people in both my wow guilds, I quit after they announced it and saw the lame content they put in with the last patch.

  • Cod_EyeCod_Eye jarrowPosts: 1,016Member

    Originally posted by NasherUK

    Originally posted by biggarfoot   I hate to break it to you kid but it is a WoW clone, BW admit it, players know it except fanbois like you.  Yes WoW did copy EQ and a bunch of other games to, other than EQ.  SWtor challenging, you might be able to kid yourself, but you wont kid other players, so challenging that people were level capped half way through the first 30 days that came with the box,  I have never as a casual player been able to reach level cap so fast in an MMO, I have never been able to solo an MMO so easly as I did with SWtoR,  if you call that challenging then you surely havnt played many other MMO's in your life.  I like many other players was hyped to play and sink my teeth into SWtoR, I was actually more dissapointed with it than I was with FFXIV, as dire as that game was, it was more challenging.

    You can hit the level cap in wow in under 3 days by grinding their repetative and dull quests.  How fast you can level is nothing to do with how hard the game is.

    In wow the only hard content is top-tier heroic 25 man bosses, this is part of why people are leaving it in bus loads.  Another reason is kung-fu panda being the focus of the next expansion.

    Not in the days I played WoW, yes its been dumbed down now and is soloable, the same thing happended to LotRO where the book  quests now have an option for players to solo by being bolstered, it was more fun and challenging doing it with groups, and it meant a lot more to have achieved these encounters, you actually felt you achieved something back then.

    But I still stand my ground that a game that has just been released should never let a player get to level cap in such a short space of time,  It stops being an MMO imho,  MMO's should have a long life and we should be on a journey not a race,  Ive reiterated the same message in other posts, but I guess players dont want that anymore.

    I want level cap I want to be at the end of the game before my next subs are due is the mentality players like myself are fighting against these days.  A very sorry state of affairs, and a sad time for MMO's to go on this way.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member

    Originally posted by biggarfoot

    But I still stand my ground that a game that has just been released should never let a player get to level cap in such a short space of time,  It stops being an MMO imho,  MMO's should have a long life and we should be on a journey not a race,  Ive reiterated the same message in other posts, but I guess players dont want that anymore.

    I want level cap I want to be at the end of the game before my next subs are due is the mentality players like myself are fighting against these days.  A very sorry state of affairs, and a sad time for MMO's to go on this way.

    I agree to an extent but not sure in this game. I mean some already complain about how long they're stuck on certain planets. If the leveling was lowere so they were there longer...not so sure that would work in this game. Least not with the current amount of content available and design.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DeaconX

    I was reading this article and when I got to the quote by Greg Z of BioWare, I was kinda sad.  It's basically admitting they went at SWTOR as a WoW clone, as what he seems to understand is WoW is how all MMO's should be...

    Article: http://kotaku.com/5884948/stop-copying-world-of-warcraft-start-making-a-better-mmo

    Quote:

    "It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."

     

    I've met the man briefly.  He's a genuinely sweet man.  But I must respectfully disagree.... then again, I'm just a lowly writer and he's ballin' in the game's industry like there's no tomorrow so...

     

    Still, I look forward to GW2/TSW where the developers looked at WoW and decided "nah, that's not our bible or blueprint."

    You know the funny thing is, they managed succesfully to avoid all the good stuff from WOW.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • red_cruiserred_cruiser Milwaukee, WIPosts: 472Member Uncommon

    BioWare's success is in a large way in spite of itself not because of it.  They don't design good game systems in my opinion, which is why I think their best products were ports of table top RPG rules.  The Dragon Age numbers aren't even close to making sense, and Mass Effect is a pretty systems-lite game. 

  • HatefullHatefull Posts: 774Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by blondeh

    old news, been posted before....

     

    next attempt at swtor bashing thread plz...

    Yes it has.  However, still relevent information.  There is no need for a SWTOR bashing thread.  If people enjoy being led by the  nose to end game, and then having nothing really to do, then let them.  If that is what is entertaining to you, then so be it.

     

    I, for one, enjoy a bit of mental stimulation when I relax.  The WoW blueprint does not work for me anymore.

     

    As always though, SWTOR NAILED it, with the voice acting, I am sure keyboard companies everywhere are loving the spike in sales from people wearing out their space bar.  Yeah...that is what SWTOR brought us.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • OtomoxOtomox HoooooPosts: 303Member

    Hands down SWTOR is the best WoW Clone but im down for now with WoW after several years its boring as hell. I found rift even more entertaining with some new feauteres then swtor.

  • BunksBunks New Port Richey, FLPosts: 960Member

    Some people are starting to wake up over at swtor now, staunch defenders once, are now seeing the bigger picture to what some of us have said all along. This guy made a great point and I can't say it any better.















    I want to chime in and say that I agree with everything you've said. Especially this paragraph and the last sentence. I can only say that every bad thing is a blessing in disguise. If this game means that we will finally see the death of so many mediocre and ancient mechanics, then so be it. I only hope that all of the MMORPGs in development or just in the idea phase, scribbled on a cocktail napkin somewhere, take notice of what's happened here and strive to avoid it.



     

     


    and the person who followed up on it made it complete.


     


    I was excited for this game. I played it and I hated it. I really don't see this game recovering so I want it to bomb so hard that no developer EVER considers creating something like this again.


     


    What some people call hate, others could call passion or love of a hobby. That's how I see this. The harder we see games like WOW and Swtor fall, the better off the hobby will be. Now that may still be one opinion vs another, but it still doesn't give anyone the moral high ground to say one persons post is irrelevant or hate, since both have valid reason to do so on a discussion forum about gaming.

  • iceman00iceman00 Westland, MIPosts: 1,363Member

    Originally posted by NasherUK

    A lot of people posting saying the game is just a wow clone clearly have not played it.  Also TOR has been out 2 months and already has FAR more content than wow did for about 2 years...

     

    Appart from some basic content that people expect, the game is very different from wow.  It feels like KOTOR as you would expect.  The combat is far more tactical than anything in wow and the whole game has a different feel to it (which a lot of wow fanbois just cant handle, because its actually challening).

     

    Also people seem to have forgot that WOW is a dumbed down clone of EQ, almost all the content in wow was taken from earlier games.  It's just that those earlier games were in the days when MMORPGs were not mainstream so not many played them.

    We need to make a "syllabus of errors" for fanbois, so they know which arguments they should never use again.

    This is at the top of the list.  TOR isn't competing with "what game X had for about two years when it launched."  It is competing against, and is to be measured, against games as they exist now.

    WoW did indeed copy a lot of things.  But the changes they've made over the game was completely different than EQ.  The amount of polish they put into it was far higher than EQ.  The deceptive ways they handled things like zoning/instancing.

  • GMan3GMan3 Ewa Beach, HIPosts: 2,127Member

        Nice attempt at bashing there OP.  Well at least it would be if it hadn't been done a few hundred times before in the last year or so.  This is so old and over argued that even most children are tired of it.

    "If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member

    I pretty much stated the same thing last year when I was laughed at by this very board.

     

    Didnt deter me though because I knew eventually people would of seen just how bad this game really is.

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • pharazonicpharazonic LDNPosts: 860Member

    Originally posted by Zylaxx

    I pretty much stated the same thing last year when I was laughed at by this very board.

     Same. I saw through BW's PR spin for what this game was (direction-lacking WoW clone without an ounce of the charm and panache WoW offers).

    Didnt deter me though because I knew eventually people would of seen just how bad this game really is.

    It's interesting for sure at how this game essentially plummetted after release. It's always sad when a game fails so hard but in this case, I do feel a touch of vindication.

     

    "Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."

    I need to take this advice more.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,028Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DeaconX

    I was reading this article and when I got to the quote by Greg Z of BioWare, I was kinda sad.  It's basically admitting they went at SWTOR as a WoW clone, as what he seems to understand is WoW is how all MMO's should be...

    Article: http://kotaku.com/5884948/stop-copying-world-of-warcraft-start-making-a-better-mmo

    Quote:

    "It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."

    I've met the man briefly.  He's a genuinely sweet man.  But I must respectfully disagree.... then again, I'm just a lowly writer and he's ballin' in the game's industry like there's no tomorrow so...

    Still, I look forward to GW2/TSW where the developers looked at WoW and decided "nah, that's not our bible or blueprint."

    Lol, what do you want him to say? That the game is completely new and innovative or something?

    EA decided that they wanted their own version of Wow and bought up Bioware who just got the license for a KOTOR MMO. EA ain´t intrested in taking a hige risk like nc soft is funding GW2 or Microsoft in funding Class 4.

    That does not mean TOR is a bad game or anything but it ses Wow mechanics together with Biowares storytelling, something that hardly is news to anyone. 

    Heck, if EA got to decide the game market would be just like EA sports, a new release of more or less the same game every year. Bioware at least did a pretty good job with what they decided to do.

    If GW2 becomes huge I can tell you that EA will order one of their companies to copy it. That is what they have been doing since they stopped making Amiga games (which they actually did really well a long time ago).

2
Sign In or Register to comment.