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Spending real cash to get your loot!

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  • ShardWarriorShardWarrior New York, NYPosts: 290Member

    Originally posted by Dinendae

    Originally posted by ShardWarrior

    Originally posted by Dinendae

    Originally posted by ShardWarrior

    Of course it is a flagrant (and desperately pathetic) cash grab attempt by Cryptic/PWE.  It is sad to see CBS approving such nonsense.

    On the contrary, CBS has shown it is more than willing to whore out any IP on even the slimmest chance it will make them money. I have no doubt they are ok with what Cryptic do as long as they get money.

    Read my post again.  image  I know it is ultimately CBS who has to signoff before it goes in game.  Hence, my comment that it is sad to see CBS approving this stuff. 

    I did read it. My point was that CBS is more than willing to ride the milking train on their I.P.; it's to be expected, actually. Now if they didn't have a history of doing this (milking the I.P. for every cent they possibly can), then I would say the decision was sad. Right now it is just business as usual.

    Yes, I know that CBS will pimp out the IP at any and every opportunity to make a buck.  It is a shame they do not really care all that much for the property beyond the money. 

  • Rusty715Rusty715 Ogdan, UTPosts: 482Member

    I dunno. Is the lock box master keys really any different than the fabled item unlockers in EQ2?  Ive made level 20 in STO without spending a nickel in the CS. I really dont know what people are paying for unless its endgame stuff. Personally I would rather see them just put the ship in the cash shop for $20 or so instead of running it like a lottery. But its not mandatory to buy the keys to enjoy the game. You pay your money you take your chances and from what I see flashing across the screen a lot of people are aquiring the ship so you know people are buying the keys. I just wonder what the drop rate is, ive seen 1% but damn, I cant believe its that low.

    Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.

  • BunksBunks New Port Richey, FLPosts: 960Member

    Originally posted by Rusty715

    I dunno. Is the lock box master keys really any different than the fabled item unlockers in EQ2?  Ive made level 20 in STO without spending a nickel in the CS. I really dont know what people are paying for unless its endgame stuff. Personally I would rather see them just put the ship in the cash shop for $20 or so instead of running it like a lottery. But its not mandatory to buy the keys to enjoy the game. You pay your money you take your chances and from what I see flashing across the screen a lot of people are aquiring the ship so you know people are buying the keys. I just wonder what the drop rate is, ive seen 1% but damn, I cant believe its that low.

    I have two vice admiral accounts now, and never spent a penny on the game. The drop rate on those ships is awful, I watched one person drop $20 bucks on keys and not get a single item worth a damn. Then I got a gold box drop, bought a key on the exchange for 1.2 million EC and got a nice device(graviton beam). But so far all ive ever seen was three of those cruisers while playing the game. So they are still pretty rare.

  • Rusty715Rusty715 Ogdan, UTPosts: 482Member

    Originally posted by Bunks

    Originally posted by Rusty715

    I dunno. Is the lock box master keys really any different than the fabled item unlockers in EQ2?  Ive made level 20 in STO without spending a nickel in the CS. I really dont know what people are paying for unless its endgame stuff. Personally I would rather see them just put the ship in the cash shop for $20 or so instead of running it like a lottery. But its not mandatory to buy the keys to enjoy the game. You pay your money you take your chances and from what I see flashing across the screen a lot of people are aquiring the ship so you know people are buying the keys. I just wonder what the drop rate is, ive seen 1% but damn, I cant believe its that low.

    I have two vice admiral accounts now, and never spent a penny on the game. The drop rate on those ships is awful, I watched one person drop $20 bucks on keys and not get a single item worth a damn. Then I got a gold box drop, bought a key on the exchange for 1.2 million EC and got a nice device(graviton beam). But so far all ive ever seen was three of those cruisers while playing the game. So they are still pretty rare.

    I dont know if ive actually seen any of the ships you can get from a box. I do see a lot of messages though. The  "so and so has aquired a Galor ship "  message comes across quite often. Honeslty when I first d/loaded this game I figured on the cash shop being so crippling that I would not play for long but so far that hasnt been the case. There must be a lot of people buying appearance gear, master keys etc because PWI / Crypic has to be making money somehow and so far I havnt felt the need to buy anything. 

    Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.

  • slickbizzleslickbizzle Matthews, NCPosts: 464Member

    Originally posted by ShardWarrior

    Get ready for "Cardassian Lock Boxes"!   http://www.startrekonline.com/node/2864

     

    So there is a chance you will get a Cardassian Ship or other cool stuff as a drop in game.... awesome right?  Well, keep on reading...

     

    "To open one of the Lock Boxes, a character will also need an item called a Master Key. Master Keys can be purchased in the C-Store for 100 CP, or in a 10-pack for 900 CP. If you attempt to open a Lock Box without a Master Key, you will get a message explaining that you need one. If you have more than one Master Key, then only one key will be consumed each time you open a Lock Box."

     

    So, in order to see what is in that spiffy loot box you just got... hand over 100 C-Points for it. 

     

    So a company is introducing optional cash sinks in a free to play game so they can turn a profit?   I have never heard of such a thing..........

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member

    It kinda makes me wish I'd been farming EC to buy one of these. I'm a big fan of the Cardassian race and I'd love to get my hands on a Galor. I think I'll load up on boxes and use my stipend to buy the keys....which makes me wish I hadn't use all of my stipend buying DO packs.

     

    My hindsight? It's 20/20.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • ShardWarriorShardWarrior New York, NYPosts: 290Member

    Originally posted by slickbizzle

    Originally posted by ShardWarrior

    Get ready for "Cardassian Lock Boxes"!   http://www.startrekonline.com/node/2864

     

    So there is a chance you will get a Cardassian Ship or other cool stuff as a drop in game.... awesome right?  Well, keep on reading...

     

    "To open one of the Lock Boxes, a character will also need an item called a Master Key. Master Keys can be purchased in the C-Store for 100 CP, or in a 10-pack for 900 CP. If you attempt to open a Lock Box without a Master Key, you will get a message explaining that you need one. If you have more than one Master Key, then only one key will be consumed each time you open a Lock Box."

     

    So, in order to see what is in that spiffy loot box you just got... hand over 100 C-Points for it. 

     

    So a company is introducing optional cash sinks in a free to play game so they can turn a profit?   I have never heard of such a thing..........

    You have missed the point of this entire thread.  I do not think you will find anyone having an objection to a cash shop in a F2P game.  The objection is generally that items (eg. ships, costumes etc.) should be put into the store rather than these lotto gift boxes being the only means to obtain those items.

  • slickbizzleslickbizzle Matthews, NCPosts: 464Member

    Originally posted by ShardWarrior

    Originally posted by slickbizzle

     

    So a company is introducing optional cash sinks in a free to play game so they can turn a profit?   I have never heard of such a thing..........

    You have missed the point of this entire thread.  I do not think you will find anyone having an objection to a cash shop in a F2P game.  The objection is generally that items (eg. ships, costumes etc.) should be put into the store rather than these lotto gift boxes being the only means to obtain those items.

     

    I stand by my statement.

     

     

  • dodgetiggerdodgetigger KirchheimPosts: 6Member

    Originally posted by Cacaphony

    Here is a post that illustrates the spam people are seeing, though not all claim to have seen so many of these messages in a short span of time. 

    That guy at the forum has some leet math skills.

    Latest sampling - 10 Galor spams in approximately 25 minutes. That's 40 spams per hour, or roughly 1 Galor spam every 1.5 minutes, consistent with earlier samplings.

    Nothing of this really adds up like he says it does ;) 

  • CacaphonyCacaphony Tacoma, WAPosts: 738Member


    Originally posted by dodgetigger


    Originally posted by Cacaphony
    Here is a post that illustrates the spam people are seeing, though not all claim to have seen so many of these messages in a short span of time. 

    That guy at the forum has some leet math skills.
    Latest sampling - 10 Galor spams in approximately 25 minutes. That's 40 spams per hour, or roughly 1 Galor spam every 1.5 minutes, consistent with earlier samplings.
    Nothing of this really adds up like he says it does ;) 

    Ok......
    The math wasnt what I was trying to show you. Look what is quoted in the post I linked. See all those message spams? Then look at the timestamps of the messages. Yeah. You don't need to take his math as an example... simply look at what is in the message.

    Anyway, if you don't like my example then just forget about that one and flip through this now nearly 1000 post thread about the Galor system message spam.

  • BunksBunks New Port Richey, FLPosts: 960Member

    Originally posted by slickbizzle

    Originally posted by ShardWarrior


    Originally posted by slickbizzle

     

    So a company is introducing optional cash sinks in a free to play game so they can turn a profit?   I have never heard of such a thing..........

    You have missed the point of this entire thread.  I do not think you will find anyone having an objection to a cash shop in a F2P game.  The objection is generally that items (eg. ships, costumes etc.) should be put into the store rather than these lotto gift boxes being the only means to obtain those items.

     

    I stand by my statement.

     

     

    then you need a cruch because his point is valid. Unethical practices (ie gambling) is all this is. It's profit by appealing to the lowest common denominator.( ie drug dealers)

  • OnsabooOnsaboo GreenwichPosts: 48Member

    Cryptic are really getting a name for themselves. Many of those messages announcing someone winning a Galor were for people who didn't actually win anything, or hadn't logged in for months in order to give the impression of better odds of winning (this was completely intentional of course, not a 'bug' as they'll have you believe). Cryptic are pretty much the most unethical and dodgy MMO developers out there.

  • ShardWarriorShardWarrior New York, NYPosts: 290Member

    Originally posted by Onsaboo

    Cryptic are really getting a name for themselves. Many of those messages announcing someone winning a Galor were for people who didn't actually win anything, or hadn't logged in for months in order to give the impression of better odds of winning (this was completely intentional of course, not a 'bug' as they'll have you believe). Cryptic are pretty much the most unethical and dodgy MMO developers out there.

    I've seen this "bug" mentioned over on the official STO forums, but have not seen any official word about it.  Do you have a link by chance?  I wish I could say I am surprised by this, but I am not.  I certainly would not put it past them to fudge the numbers to sucker people into parting with their cash.

  • OnsabooOnsaboo GreenwichPosts: 48Member

    Originally posted by ShardWarrior

    I've seen this "bug" mentioned over on the official STO forums, but have not seen any official word about it.  Do you have a link by chance?  I wish I could say I am surprised by this, but I am not.  I certainly would not put it past them to fudge the numbers to sucker people into parting with their cash.

    They haven't officially commented on it, but this is the thread in Gameplay bugs

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=253598

  • logandwjlogandwj Grand Prairie, TXPosts: 25Member

    This is an article I've written that I am submitting to several different gaming publications either as a news tip or story outright.

    --------------------

    Star Trek Online Players Frustrated with In-game system message "spam".

     

    Since Perfect World Entertainment (PWE) bought Cryptic and began overall management of the games Star Trek Online, Champions Online, and development of Neverwinter Nights, there has been apprehension that PWE would be changing both games to suit their style of micro-transactions. Some of this would work in the western market. But other aspects are considered annoying or distracting to game immersion.



    So far, Champions Online has not had as much visible meddling in their FTP model. Seemingly because for the most part, the transition to FTP for CO was handled when Cryptic was still owned by Atari (formerly Infogames) and the FTP model for CO has in large part been set and seems to be working.



    However, the FTP transition for Star Trek Online has been completely under the control and guidance of Perfect World Entertainment and it shows.



    For the most part, STO players have absorbed the new changes without much complaint. In fact, the FTP model for STO has largely been praised, since there is much less gated behind a pay wall for non-subscribers compared to subscribers (or lifetime members).



    Recently however, a new element was added which is causing a lot of rage among the player base, both free and subscribers. Let's back up in time a couple of months for some background.



    Over the Christmas Holiday season, a new type of loot was added to the game. A "lockbox". It dropped under certain circumstances and came in different grades of rarity. It required the purchase of a key from the C-Store to open. And what was in the box was random. It might be nothing more than a temporary character buff. It might be a rare personal weapon. The rarest of drops was that of a Jem-Hader escort. (Commonly referred to as "the bug ship")



    The lockboxes were actually a huge hit. And Cryptic/PWE apparently made a lot of money in micro-transactions with them. The players - even the ones who chose not to open or participate - were supportive of the system. There was some grumbling over the rarity of the Jem-Hader ship drop. But that was only natural. ("You pays your money and you takes your chances.")



    So naturally, since the boxes were so successful, PWE/Cryptic decided to add more to the game. There is now a type of "Lock-box" which will drop at the end of Special Task Forces (STF) and randomly throughout any other normal mission. The rewards from this box are also random. They can be as disappointingly pedestrian as batteries for your ship. Or it could be a rare personal weapon or armor. The ultimate drop is a Cardassian Galor Cruiser ship. Again - the purchase of a C-Store key is required to open any lock-box. And players have been doing so in droves.



    So far so good.



    Except for one little problem.



    Every time a player is awarded a Galor cruiser, an announcement is made throughout the entire game, across all shards and instances, that the player has won the ship. The players current character and global handle are broadcast.



    Let me say that again - the players current character and global handle are broadcast to the entire game as having won the rare loot.



    The announcement is made using the game's System Announcement channel. This channel is by default in the chatbox. That part can be turned off.



    But the system announcement system is also an integral part of the game's Head's Up Display UI (HUD). It is used for several important types of game announcements, including dialogue and updates from your bridge officers, and it cannot be turned off. By default it appears in the middle of the screen, though it can be moved using the HUD customization option. However, the system announcement window is, by default, set to appear over the top of any other element of the game HUD.



    The frequency of the announcements of Galor winners averages from 1.5 to 2 minutes apart. At peak server times, the messages pop-up as frequently as 5-15 seconds apart.



    So let's review:



    Using the system announcement window element of the game HUD, winners of the Galor cruiser have their character and global ID broadcast to the entire game. Objections include privacy concerns. Stalking. Griefing and trolling.



    The system messages, now commonly referred to in-game as "Galor Spam", cannot be turned off completely.

    Due to the frequency of these messages, many players find them distracting to the point of immersion breaking.

    Though the window in the HUD can be moved to a different portion of the screen and the chatbox element turned off, this reduces the functionality of certain game and social elements. Players cannot track the log-ins and log-outs of friends and guildmates. And important status updates from the bridge officers of a players ship might go unseen.



    Needless to say - this has caused a lot of rage on the STO forums. (Links below to the prominent threads)



    Most players are in agreement that they wouldn't mind the boxes or care about the drop-rates. The system "Galor Spam" is the greatest problem. Many players are reporting that they are reducing their time in-game or not playing at all due to this "feature".



    This was implemented over a week ago. And despite the firestorm of controversy and the massive forum threads it has generated, there has been little or no communication from the Developers. Which is only causing the threads to explode all the more in rage.



    Additionally, an attempt was made to bring the issue in question to the attention of players in Champions Online, since that game is also owned and developed by Cryptic/PWE and this new type of announcement could show up there as well. Champions already has their own equivelant of lockboxes.

    But that thread was shut down quickly with no comment other than to say that the forum rules were violated because the thread was not talking about Champions, but Star Trek. (Though it managed to generate 6 pages in 6 hours of overwhelmingly negative feedback of the "do not bring that over here!" variety.)



     Here are the major threads in question:



    General thread about the lock-boxes:



    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=252992



    Thread specifically about the "Galor Spam" (this is the more relevent thread IMO)



    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=253446



    (Thread in the Champions Online Forums that was shut down and locked quickly. But it's still there to be read.)



    http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=143980



    Speculation has been rampant about whether this was a move by Cryptic or its owners, Perfect World Entertainment. The general consensus is that it is most likely PWE that has chosen to implement this "feature". This theory is supported by the way many of their other FTP games are set up.



    Have Cryptic developers and community representatives been told to say nothing and let the controversy blow over? If so, it doesn't appear to be working. At last count, the thread on the system message "Galor Spam" has exceeded 110 pages and still counting.

     

    --------------------

     

    Tell me what you think, ok?

    And let Cryptic and PWE know this type of "feature" is not welcome!

     

    -Logan
    ----------
    "Wake UP! Time for SCIENCE!"
    -Adam Savage "Mythbusters"
    ----------

  • Looks like they are taking a note from Valve and the manco store.

  • logandwjlogandwj Grand Prairie, TXPosts: 25Member

    Not really. MannCo is just a standard item shop. And Steam doesn't spam you incessantly in-game about it to the point of distracting you from the game. 

    That's the problem with what's happening in STO. Read my post above. It explains in detail exactly why what PWE/Cryptic is doing is a problem.

    Just to sum up -

    The lock-boxes aren't the problem. Most players (myself included) would have no problem with them. We could use them, sell them, or just ignore/delete them. No problem.

    It's the system message spam that's the problem. It is interrupting and degrading an actual game process. And it can't be gotten rid of or ignored entirely.

     

    -Logan
    ----------
    "Wake UP! Time for SCIENCE!"
    -Adam Savage "Mythbusters"
    ----------

  • DigironoDigirono Charlotte, NCPosts: 86Member

    I just want to point out that PWI has been doing this stuff since 2009-ish....it's a no brainer that they'd put it in STO/CO. Anni packs in PWI sold like crazy, In-game we'd get messages about *Insert player name here* has gotten *Insert item here* every minute or so. 

    image

  • AG-VukAG-Vuk Phoenix, AZPosts: 823Member Uncommon

    Unless i miss my guess the game is FREE TO PLAY ?  Translation for those who care . YOU HAVE A CHOICE , if you don't like how they are doing something, don't :


    • give them your money


    • log in

    Complaining will get you nothing , it will not change anything , you're still playing the game.  I truely hope your post makes you feel better , because it seems to be an excersice in futility.  To me it's an unprincipled stance you've taken. first people cheered the take over from Atarii, then people cheered the preceived influx of capital that PWI would bring. People cheered the game going F2P. You've chosen the bed , they laid it out for you and now you've discovered the bed bugs that come with F2P. Honestly a no brainer.

    image

  • Originally posted by logandwj

    It's the system message spam that's the problem. It is interrupting and degrading an actual game process. And it can't be gotten rid of or ignored entirely.

     

    O, yeah system messages are annoying when spammed. That does suck. STO needs to learn their role then.

  • BunksBunks New Port Richey, FLPosts: 960Member

    Well I havent logged on since it began. When it stops someone will let me know. But they did lose $30 a month on two subs for doing this. Wife is mad at me, but gotta hold a standard to behavior someplace.

  • OnsabooOnsaboo GreenwichPosts: 48Member

    Originally posted by Digirono

    I just want to point out that PWI has been doing this stuff since 2009-ish....it's a no brainer that they'd put it in STO/CO. Anni packs in PWI sold like crazy, In-game we'd get messages about *Insert player name here* has gotten *Insert item here* every minute or so. 

    You're right, but they have to know this won't be accepted in the western market. Some players are even trying to get the game re-rated from Teen to Mature due to Cryptic's sudden fascination with 'gambling' - and they're right to call it that, because this is nothing short of gambling. If ANYONE needed to pick their reputation up it's Cryptic, but apparantly they don't care about the bad press they're receiving.

  • DinendaeDinendae Pekin, ILPosts: 1,264Member

    Originally posted by logandwj

    Not really. MannCo is just a standard item shop. And Steam doesn't spam you incessantly in-game about it to the point of distracting you from the game. 

    That's the problem with what's happening in STO. Read my post above. It explains in detail exactly why what PWE/Cryptic is doing is a problem.

    Just to sum up -

    The lock-boxes aren't the problem. Most players (myself included) would have no problem with them. We could use them, sell them, or just ignore/delete them. No problem.

    It's the system message spam that's the problem. It is interrupting and degrading an actual game process. And it can't be gotten rid of or ignored entirely.

     

    The only thing I would add to that would be that there is evidence that the Galor spam is false in some cases, players are being reported by the messages as having won the ship when they have not.

    "Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan

  • logandwjlogandwj Grand Prairie, TXPosts: 25Member

    Originally posted by Digirono

    I just want to point out that PWI has been doing this stuff since 2009-ish....it's a no brainer that they'd put it in STO/CO. Anni packs in PWI sold like crazy, In-game we'd get messages about *Insert player name here* has gotten *Insert item here* every minute or so. 

    Yes, well there were some misgivings about what would happen to STO and CO when PWI acquired Cryptic. Seems they were correct.

    The thing to do now is NOT to roll over and say "Well they've been doing this since the 90s, they're not going to stop now. Oh well." 

    The thing to do now is to MAKE them stop. At least in STO and CO. That kind of crap might fly in Asia. We need to teach them that it won't fly in the Western market.

     

    -Logan
    ----------
    "Wake UP! Time for SCIENCE!"
    -Adam Savage "Mythbusters"
    ----------

  • logandwjlogandwj Grand Prairie, TXPosts: 25Member

    Originally posted by Dinendae

    The only thing I would add to that would be that there is evidence that the Galor spam is false in some cases, players are being reported by the messages as having won the ship when they have not.

    Good catch. I forgot to mention that. That is in fact the case. And if it's intentional, then it's even more imperative to get the authorities crawling up their backside.

    -Logan
    ----------
    "Wake UP! Time for SCIENCE!"
    -Adam Savage "Mythbusters"
    ----------

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