You should definitely be very, very cautious of titles where the NDAs aren't lifted until launch or after. But it's also very important to note that games lifting their NDA prior to this won't automatically succeed.
TSW and GW2 are both games I look foward to, my sub and fun setup.
But at this point, TSW is suppose to be released before GW2, yet I have seen little to nothing of TSW actual gameplay footage and yet have been overloaded with GW2 gameplay for years now. Should that worry me, based on that formula? Or is my search abilty been TSW disabled?
I'd say you should definitely be cautious.
Ask yourself this; Are you hyped for TSW because of what you have seen or what you have been told you will see?
Seen many MMO players fall into the same trap and they all came out disappointed and bitter as a result.
I am getting nervous. To be honest, if these two games turn out ot be nothing but hype, I think my days as a gamer will be limited to flight simulators again. Had the whole week at my desk this week due to taxes and bookeeping for my 3 business and researched like mad, found very little on TSW.
If you are expecting TSW or GW2 to be something amazingly revolutionary, I would advice you to start look for other games. There is only so much new things people can do in MMO.
it doesn't have to guarantee secrecy or even work to the ends that they intend(realistically it's just damage control), but a NDA up to and even after release means it is a stinker, plain and simple. if you do not allow certain information to be given about games even during/after large scale testing and you greatly restrict the kind of content that can be shown or spoken of...it is a stinker. there was never, ever a good/great MMO with a strict NDA close to/after releae. never.
review embargo is even worse, most mmo's are bearable for a little while which is why despite this being one of the worst game genres as a whole and so many bad, bad mmo's....they are relatively well reviewed for what they offer. APB and FFXIV were bad in many ways, could not be bullshitted about and had no hope of being looked on favorably by the general public for even one month's time.
it doesn't need to be some exact science, because nothing has really gone against this trend yet.
TSW and GW2 are both games I look foward to, my sub and fun setup.
But at this point, TSW is suppose to be released before GW2, yet I have seen little to nothing of TSW actual gameplay footage and yet have been overloaded with GW2 gameplay for years now. Should that worry me, based on that formula? Or is my search abilty been TSW disabled?
I'd say you should definitely be cautious.
Ask yourself this; Are you hyped for TSW because of what you have seen or what you have been told you will see?
Seen many MMO players fall into the same trap and they all came out disappointed and bitter as a result.
I am getting nervous. To be honest, if these two games turn out ot be nothing but hype, I think my days as a gamer will be limited to flight simulators again. Had the whole week at my desk this week due to taxes and bookeeping for my 3 business and researched like mad, found very little on TSW.
If you are expecting TSW or GW2 to be something amazingly revolutionary, I would advice you to start look for other games. There is only so much new things people can do in MMO.
I can't speak for TSW, but regarding GW2: you are sooooooo incredibly wrong.
A certain MMO that I won't mention, because this isn't a topic that is supposed to be about that...has shown more in ALPHA than most MMOs show throughout beta. Most MMOs show very little.
Then some MMOs (like Age of Conan if I remember correctly) had an NDA PAST RELEASE...should have been a sign right there to save my money. And it ended up being correct.
If an MMO has an NDA up to release or past it..and they also show limited quanities of their MMO and limit people playing them and force them to play them a certain way, if they allow that at all...it is probably because they have something to hide and their MMO isn't that great. Every MMO that has done this (I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I know there have been others besides AoC)...has ended up a huge fail.
However, if an MMO company isn't afraid to let the people play their game how they want and show off tons of their game (especially if it isn't even in beta yet)...it is probably because the developers know they have a good game on their hands. They love their MMO and they want to show as much of it off as possible.
So yeah...three signs of a bad MMO
NDA up to release or past it (this is the main one, as MMOs that have done this ended up failing)
Show off very little of their game, especially if it is in beta stages.
If they allow players to play it at conventions or whatever, they dictate how people play said MMO and control what they do...instead of allowing them to freely play it. Or worse yet, they don't let anyone play it at all.
Oh?
I can't think of a game that has had an NDA at or past release...
Companies don't show tons of game footage or whatever for several reasons, unfinished design, worry about competitors lifting ideas, stuff like that.
As far as conventions, I am sure that time has a lot to do with how long people get to play whatever game is being shown. Unless there are like 3 people at the the convention I am sure that whatever company is showing off a game would like to get as many people as possible to see the game, thus limiting the length of hands on time people get.
Not everything has to be doom and gloom.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
GW2 being revolutionary or not is based on the gaming industry reaction and many other factors. i try and stick to the more realistic expectation of it being better than WoW, RIFT, SWTOR, etc. it's not gonna change the world to be honest, the genre is rotten and it's going to take a lot more than one good game, even if it's innovative.
i don't think it will do much for the genre so the word revolutionary is laughable to me, just like it was when Bioware said it. at least ArenaNet is not spouting that word off at every chance.
I can't speak for TSW, but regarding GW2: you are sooooooo incredibly wrong.
I am willing to bet you once the game info is out or game is released. The same shit storm that hits every single released MMO will hit GW2 forum as well.
Don't get me wrong, I love GW1 and I am getting GW2. I even loved the short time I get to play GW2 last year in PAX and looking forward to try it out more in coming April. However, I do/will not praise it as holy grail.
I can't speak for TSW, but regarding GW2: you are sooooooo incredibly wrong.
I am willing to bet you once the game info is out or game is released. The same shit storm that hits every single released MMO will hit GW2 forum as well.
Don't get me wrong, I love GW1 and I am getting GW2. I even loved the short time I get to play GW2 last year in PAX and looking forward to try it out more in coming April. However, I do/will not praise it as holy grail.
exactly. there is definitely room for improvement.
I can't speak for TSW, but regarding GW2: you are sooooooo incredibly wrong.
I am willing to bet you once the game info is out or game is released. The same shit storm that hits every single released MMO will hit GW2 forum as well.
Don't get me wrong, I love GW1 and I am getting GW2. I even loved the short time I get to play GW2 last year in PAX and looking forward to try it out more in coming April. However, I do/will not praise it as holy grail.
Yeah, but that shit storm would be the result of the way GW2 is different from the now. Like we will definitely have threads like "No Raids... This Game Sucks" or "No PvP Gear = No Incentive". I bet we would get a lot more of that rather than "This is WoW with PQs".
People who are anticipating GW2 aren't expecting the epitome of MMO gaming. We are expecting something fun and different in many ways.
TSW and GW2 are both games I look foward to, my sub and fun setup.
But at this point, TSW is suppose to be released before GW2, yet I have seen little to nothing of TSW actual gameplay footage and yet have been overloaded with GW2 gameplay for years now. Should that worry me, based on that formula? Or is my search abilty been TSW disabled?
I got into TSW beta, its really bad, ci would guess that NDA isnt getting lifted any time soon
A certain MMO that I won't mention, because this isn't a topic that is supposed to be about that...has shown more in ALPHA than most MMOs show throughout beta. Most MMOs show very little.
Then some MMOs (like Age of Conan if I remember correctly) had an NDA PAST RELEASE...should have been a sign right there to save my money. And it ended up being correct.
If an MMO has an NDA up to release or past it..and they also show limited quanities of their MMO and limit people playing them and force them to play them a certain way, if they allow that at all...it is probably because they have something to hide and their MMO isn't that great. Every MMO that has done this (I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I know there have been others besides AoC)...has ended up a huge fail.
However, if an MMO company isn't afraid to let the people play their game how they want and show off tons of their game (especially if it isn't even in beta yet)...it is probably because the developers know they have a good game on their hands. They love their MMO and they want to show as much of it off as possible.
So yeah...three signs of a bad MMO
NDA up to release or past it (this is the main one, as MMOs that have done this ended up failing)
Show off very little of their game, especially if it is in beta stages.
If they allow players to play it at conventions or whatever, they dictate how people play said MMO and control what they do...instead of allowing them to freely play it. Or worse yet, they don't let anyone play it at all.
Who cares about the NDA? Look if you don't like a game, say so. If you need convince others to your belief, think of cogent points about the game and why people should agree with you. But to attack a game based on NDA and crack head theories reeks of desperation.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
A certain MMO that I won't mention, because this isn't a topic that is supposed to be about that...has shown more in ALPHA than most MMOs show throughout beta. Most MMOs show very little.
Then some MMOs (like Age of Conan if I remember correctly) had an NDA PAST RELEASE...should have been a sign right there to save my money. And it ended up being correct.
If an MMO has an NDA up to release or past it..and they also show limited quanities of their MMO and limit people playing them and force them to play them a certain way, if they allow that at all...it is probably because they have something to hide and their MMO isn't that great. Every MMO that has done this (I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I know there have been others besides AoC)...has ended up a huge fail.
However, if an MMO company isn't afraid to let the people play their game how they want and show off tons of their game (especially if it isn't even in beta yet)...it is probably because the developers know they have a good game on their hands. They love their MMO and they want to show as much of it off as possible.
So yeah...three signs of a bad MMO
NDA up to release or past it (this is the main one, as MMOs that have done this ended up failing)
Show off very little of their game, especially if it is in beta stages.
If they allow players to play it at conventions or whatever, they dictate how people play said MMO and control what they do...instead of allowing them to freely play it. Or worse yet, they don't let anyone play it at all.
While I personally can't say that I've heard of a game that maintained their NDA after launch that was labeled a success I have seen a slew of games that dropped their NDA in a timely manner and managed to flop spectacularly.
The NDA, nowadays, is designed to keep people from openly discuss exploitable game mechanics that haven't been fixed and to control negative opinions. Mechanics and features tend to be quite openly reported by the company themselves which is what the NDA was designed to protect against long ago.
If people don't want to like a game, they won't. If they mean it, they won't play the game. If people don't play the game the game gets closed (Unless it's a Sony game.. they just close games to amuse themselves).
In short: If a game is bad, it will fail.
If a game is really bad or players have strong negative opinions about it, no NDA on the planet will stop players from telling other players.
AC did well and is still maintaining subs over a decade later based on favorable player reviews.
AC2 flopped due to lost subs because of player reviews... Which is funny as the game was in pretty great shape when they closed the servers down.
TSW and GW2 are both games I look foward to, my sub and fun setup.
But at this point, TSW is suppose to be released before GW2, yet I have seen little to nothing of TSW actual gameplay footage and yet have been overloaded with GW2 gameplay for years now. Should that worry me, based on that formula? Or is my search abilty been TSW disabled?
yeah but thats more GW2 being very open.
Theres a decent amount of in game TSW footage and they are lifting NDA on 21/02/2012. They've put out videos of a dungeon, the pvp mini games, the RVR and questing in one of the PVE zones, the only biggie missing is crafting.
I don't see TSW as being secretive about its content, seen a lot more of it than say with SWTOR at this stage (in terms of actual in game doing stuff not just flashy class videos), and TSW is breaking NDA 9 weeks before release. TSW is doing a "normal" release on a par with what tERA is doing and what RIFT did, GW2 is being super open.
The OP has a good point though, I should have used that myself before buying SWTOR, the sneaky releas at christmas when reviewers are on holiday thing should have set alarm bells ringing.
TSW and GW2 are both games I look foward to, my sub and fun setup.
But at this point, TSW is suppose to be released before GW2, yet I have seen little to nothing of TSW actual gameplay footage and yet have been overloaded with GW2 gameplay for years now. Should that worry me, based on that formula? Or is my search abilty been TSW disabled?
I got into TSW beta, its really bad, ci would guess that NDA isnt getting lifted any time soon
TSW and GW2 are both games I look foward to, my sub and fun setup.
But at this point, TSW is suppose to be released before GW2, yet I have seen little to nothing of TSW actual gameplay footage and yet have been overloaded with GW2 gameplay for years now. Should that worry me, based on that formula? Or is my search abilty been TSW disabled?
yeah but thats more GW2 being very open.
Theres a decent amount of in game TSW footage and they are lifting NDA on 21/02/2012. They've put out videos of a dungeon, the pvp mini games, the RVR and questing in one of the PVE zones, the only biggie missing is crafting.
I don't see TSW as being secretive about its content, seen a lot more of it than say with SWTOR at this stage (in terms of actual in game doing stuff not just flashy class videos), and TSW is breaking NDA 9 weeks before release. TSW is doing a "normal" release on a par with what tERA is doing and what RIFT did, GW2 is being super open.
The OP has a good point though, I should have used that myself before buying SWTOR, the sneaky releas at christmas when reviewers are on holiday thing should have set alarm bells ringing.
i think a lot has to do with the fanbase of gw2 being bigger at this point. i mean just look at how many posts on this site are about gw2 vs tsw. the fact that they have a bigger fanbase makes the information that has been put out spread a lot faster.
they initially set April 12' release back in Novemebr i believe. And their nda has been pushed back to the 24th of this month i think so they can gameplan after hearing what Anet says about gw2 on monday. if gw2 comes out and says April 24, which i think is unlikely but possible, funcom will either have to rush the release or push it back a month or two.
on aside note : TSW forums are horrendous right now. It makes it hard to find any info you may be looking for.
24/04 keeps croping up in various args, it also has links to The longest Journey.
i think the release date will be 4/24. but if gw2 comes out and says 4/24 that will probably change. that being said i know they are somewhat in competition, but i don't think Arenanet would pull such a dick move. And i dont think they would have too. GW2 will do just fine no matter when tsw releases.
Thing is, an NDA isn't always meaning it will be bad. Sure, it does help in concealing a games flaws and hiding it away a bit, but at the same time some games are being tested because they are not ready. Beta is suppose to be a testing phase (though not always done that way now a days as much) that kinks are worked out. NDA helps to allieviate word being spread out something is bad when in all fairness to the company, they can't really see all the kinks that might pop up pushing a bigger playerbase in the game.
Who cares about the NDA? Look if you don't like a game, say so. If you need convince others to your belief, think of cogent points about the game and why people should agree with you. But to attack a game based on NDA and crack head theories reeks of desperation.
The whole point is if you are under NDA you can not do that. That is the whole point of an NDA.
Comments
You should definitely be very, very cautious of titles where the NDAs aren't lifted until launch or after. But it's also very important to note that games lifting their NDA prior to this won't automatically succeed.
it doesn't have to guarantee secrecy or even work to the ends that they intend(realistically it's just damage control), but a NDA up to and even after release means it is a stinker, plain and simple. if you do not allow certain information to be given about games even during/after large scale testing and you greatly restrict the kind of content that can be shown or spoken of...it is a stinker. there was never, ever a good/great MMO with a strict NDA close to/after releae. never.
review embargo is even worse, most mmo's are bearable for a little while which is why despite this being one of the worst game genres as a whole and so many bad, bad mmo's....they are relatively well reviewed for what they offer. APB and FFXIV were bad in many ways, could not be bullshitted about and had no hope of being looked on favorably by the general public for even one month's time.
it doesn't need to be some exact science, because nothing has really gone against this trend yet.
I can't speak for TSW, but regarding GW2: you are sooooooo incredibly wrong.
Re: SWTOR
"Remember, remember - Kakk says 'December.'"
Oh?
I can't think of a game that has had an NDA at or past release...
Companies don't show tons of game footage or whatever for several reasons, unfinished design, worry about competitors lifting ideas, stuff like that.
As far as conventions, I am sure that time has a lot to do with how long people get to play whatever game is being shown. Unless there are like 3 people at the the convention I am sure that whatever company is showing off a game would like to get as many people as possible to see the game, thus limiting the length of hands on time people get.
Not everything has to be doom and gloom.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
@ Kakkzooka:
GW2 being revolutionary or not is based on the gaming industry reaction and many other factors. i try and stick to the more realistic expectation of it being better than WoW, RIFT, SWTOR, etc. it's not gonna change the world to be honest, the genre is rotten and it's going to take a lot more than one good game, even if it's innovative.
i don't think it will do much for the genre so the word revolutionary is laughable to me, just like it was when Bioware said it. at least ArenaNet is not spouting that word off at every chance.
I am willing to bet you once the game info is out or game is released. The same shit storm that hits every single released MMO will hit GW2 forum as well.
Don't get me wrong, I love GW1 and I am getting GW2. I even loved the short time I get to play GW2 last year in PAX and looking forward to try it out more in coming April. However, I do/will not praise it as holy grail.
exactly. there is definitely room for improvement.
Yeah, but that shit storm would be the result of the way GW2 is different from the now. Like we will definitely have threads like "No Raids... This Game Sucks" or "No PvP Gear = No Incentive". I bet we would get a lot more of that rather than "This is WoW with PQs".
People who are anticipating GW2 aren't expecting the epitome of MMO gaming. We are expecting something fun and different in many ways.
I got into TSW beta, its really bad, ci would guess that NDA isnt getting lifted any time soon
Who cares about the NDA? Look if you don't like a game, say so. If you need convince others to your belief, think of cogent points about the game and why people should agree with you. But to attack a game based on NDA and crack head theories reeks of desperation.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
While I personally can't say that I've heard of a game that maintained their NDA after launch that was labeled a success I have seen a slew of games that dropped their NDA in a timely manner and managed to flop spectacularly.
The NDA, nowadays, is designed to keep people from openly discuss exploitable game mechanics that haven't been fixed and to control negative opinions. Mechanics and features tend to be quite openly reported by the company themselves which is what the NDA was designed to protect against long ago.
If people don't want to like a game, they won't. If they mean it, they won't play the game. If people don't play the game the game gets closed (Unless it's a Sony game.. they just close games to amuse themselves).
In short: If a game is bad, it will fail.
If a game is really bad or players have strong negative opinions about it, no NDA on the planet will stop players from telling other players.
AC did well and is still maintaining subs over a decade later based on favorable player reviews.
AC2 flopped due to lost subs because of player reviews... Which is funny as the game was in pretty great shape when they closed the servers down.
yeah but thats more GW2 being very open.
Theres a decent amount of in game TSW footage and they are lifting NDA on 21/02/2012. They've put out videos of a dungeon, the pvp mini games, the RVR and questing in one of the PVE zones, the only biggie missing is crafting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nutu1o3xIpE - pve
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGpyPl2H2D0 - dungeon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mRwkJyL1Lc - pvp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPMMMSqwzYI - egypt some of its trailer but theres played content in their too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4n7rvjN2Lw - starting out as templar (old video graphics improve a lot since)
I don't see TSW as being secretive about its content, seen a lot more of it than say with SWTOR at this stage (in terms of actual in game doing stuff not just flashy class videos), and TSW is breaking NDA 9 weeks before release. TSW is doing a "normal" release on a par with what tERA is doing and what RIFT did, GW2 is being super open.
The OP has a good point though, I should have used that myself before buying SWTOR, the sneaky releas at christmas when reviewers are on holiday thing should have set alarm bells ringing.
hmm its getting lifted in two days
p.s. can I have your key?
i think a lot has to do with the fanbase of gw2 being bigger at this point. i mean just look at how many posts on this site are about gw2 vs tsw. the fact that they have a bigger fanbase makes the information that has been put out spread a lot faster.
they initially set April 12' release back in Novemebr i believe. And their nda has been pushed back to the 24th of this month i think so they can gameplan after hearing what Anet says about gw2 on monday. if gw2 comes out and says April 24, which i think is unlikely but possible, funcom will either have to rush the release or push it back a month or two.
on aside note : TSW forums are horrendous right now. It makes it hard to find any info you may be looking for.
I've got the straight edge.
24/04 keeps croping up in various args, it also has links to The longest Journey.
i think the release date will be 4/24. but if gw2 comes out and says 4/24 that will probably change. that being said i know they are somewhat in competition, but i don't think Arenanet would pull such a dick move. And i dont think they would have too. GW2 will do just fine no matter when tsw releases.
I've got the straight edge.
Thing is, an NDA isn't always meaning it will be bad. Sure, it does help in concealing a games flaws and hiding it away a bit, but at the same time some games are being tested because they are not ready. Beta is suppose to be a testing phase (though not always done that way now a days as much) that kinks are worked out. NDA helps to allieviate word being spread out something is bad when in all fairness to the company, they can't really see all the kinks that might pop up pushing a bigger playerbase in the game.
The whole point is if you are under NDA you can not do that. That is the whole point of an NDA.