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Dominus: A Note to the Vocal Minority

24

Comments

  • teakboisteakbois Parlin, NJPosts: 2,154Member

    what is this I dont even...

  • RocSekRocSek Charlotte, NCPosts: 59Member

    Another good read, Thanks

    All I heard was... "Well aren't you just a little lolly pop triple dipped in psycho."

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,773Member Uncommon

    The trick is being able to tell the difference between when the people who are screaming hold opinions representative of the rest of the community, and when every single person upset about something is screaming while the entire rest of the community can't be bothered to care or even disagrees with them.

    Regarding fixing bugs in the game, it makes a big difference as to how hard the bug is to fix.  I've found bugs in some games that were nothing more than a typo on the source code (or likely in some data file that doesn't even get compiled).  And even though the bugs weren't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things, they were very easy to fix, so they were fixed very quickly.

  • jacklojacklo BlackpoolPosts: 570Member

    I'll be interested in the development of this game.

    Since it uses the Hero Engine much like SWTOR, if they don't have problems with ability delay and low fps we can lay the blame firmly at Bioware's feet, if they do it's obviously the engine.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,197Member Uncommon

    It's not black and white.  Jeff Atwood (from Stack Overflow) has an interesting blog post about his very thing, only his project wasn't an MMO.  Online communities can be beasts as anyone here knows.

    Coding Horror blog post: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/02/listen-to-your-community-but-dont-let-them-tell-you-what-to-do.html

  • aleosaleos na, INPosts: 1,863Member Uncommon

    i can promise i will continue to bitch, moan, complain, whine, QQ, and tell it how it is. its more constructive than "If you don't like it don't play it."

    /flex

  • jacklojacklo BlackpoolPosts: 570Member

    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    It's not black and white.  Jeff Atwood (from Stack Overflow) has an interesting blog post about his very thing, only his project wasn't an MMO.  Online communities can be beasts as anyone here knows.

    Coding Horror blog post: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/02/listen-to-your-community-but-dont-let-them-tell-you-what-to-do.html

    That's a good read and I agree with it entirely.

    Words and actions don't always sync together though (no reflection on the article itself). 

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,912Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by aleos

    i can promise i will continue to bitch, moan, complain, whine, QQ, and tell it how it is. its more constructive than "If you don't like it don't play it."

    /flex

     

    Does that make you part of the solution, or part of  the problem?


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • JostleJostle Bradenton, FLPosts: 63Member

    Originally posted by Mors.Magne

     

    I think the author of the article should be aware that if his company does not respond to good advice, then he and his colleagues will sooner or later be sacked. This is just the way of the world. This is why just about every company on the Forbes 100 list of 1930 is no longer in existence (with the exeption of General Electric).

    Many good directors are often sacked from companies because they report the truth the the board. The companies continue to live in denial until they go bankrupt.






     




     

     

    There is a lot of defining that we have to do, and I think Sanya covered that in her blog post. What advice is good? It is literally impossible to take everyone's "advice" about a game because they often conflict, not to mention it being implausible because there are resources and time and man-hours to take into account. It takes a great company to do things like say, "That's a great idea, we'll look into implementing it," or ,"This is exactly where we're at on the issue, here are the reasons why we're here, and here's where we're going. What do you guys think?" or, "No, that's not something that we're going to do, and here's why." All of those things are currently being done by the company Sanya works for, and it's more exciting than ten Super Bowls.

    dominusthegame.com

  • aleosaleos na, INPosts: 1,863Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by ActionMMORPG

    Originally posted by aleos

    i can promise i will continue to bitch, moan, complain, whine, QQ, and tell it how it is. its more constructive than "If you don't like it don't play it."

    /flex

     

    Does that make you part of the solution, or part of  the problem?

    it makes me a paying customer

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,197Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by aleos

    Originally posted by ActionMMORPG


    Originally posted by aleos

    i can promise i will continue to bitch, moan, complain, whine, QQ, and tell it how it is. its more constructive than "If you don't like it don't play it."

    /flex

     

    Does that make you part of the solution, or part of  the problem?

    it makes me a paying customer

    Some paying customers cost more than the revenue they generate.  In every business I've been in there have been customers that are better for the business, not as customers.

    If you're too much a part of the problem, then it doesn't matter if you're paying or not.  Not that you tell every complainer to shove off, but there comes a point where the "I'm a paying customer" argument doesn't cut it.

  • TardcoreTardcore MinskPosts: 2,325Member

    Since every person in the world is at their heart a vocal minority of one, I find this idea of the "vocal minority" to be patently ridiculous. All it really is, is a petty little device to automatically gainsay and invalidate any idea that a self styled member of the spurious "Majority" disagrees with.

     

    In truth it is nothing more than a cheap discrimination tactic. IE, "Your opinion doesn't matter as the majority of people who disagree with you don't post here, or in fact don't feel the need to post anywhere as everyting about the issue under discussion is completely hunky dory for this 'phantom' majority of individuals." Its as meaningless an argument as "There are starving children in Africa that would be dead grateful for whatever food item you've chosen to feed to the dog rather than eat."

     

    I find this arrogant and narrowminded behavior especially galling when it comes from an author of a site devoted to the discussion of MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAMES.

     

    In short OP I fail to see how your little screaming wobbler about the angst of social retardation among your online peers is in any way different from the bad behavior of others you've outlinded in your little tirade. I get the idea that none of us are a beautiful or  unique snowflake, however you seem to imply you and your "majority" of likeminded individuals somehow are.

     

    All I can say to that is just like the rest of us, you are just one more chattering monkey in a world full of chattering monkeys. Trying to disenfranchise those whos opinions you do not respect does not make you a superior individual, just an asshole.

    image

    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • ThorbrandThorbrand West Palm Beach, FLPosts: 1,198Member

    About time some said it! Gamers need to play the game they are given and wait for it to evolve and accept what the game is not what they want to game to be. Old school gaming in a sense. You had limited options and you played what the devs gave you.

    Not like anyone really knows what they want anyway.

  • aleosaleos na, INPosts: 1,863Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    Originally posted by aleos


    Originally posted by ActionMMORPG


    Originally posted by aleos

    i can promise i will continue to bitch, moan, complain, whine, QQ, and tell it how it is. its more constructive than "If you don't like it don't play it."

    /flex

     

    Does that make you part of the solution, or part of  the problem?

    it makes me a paying customer

    Some paying customers cost more than the revenue they generate.  In every business I've been in there have been customers that are better for the business, not as customers.

    If you're too much a part of the problem, then it doesn't matter if you're paying or not.  Not that you tell every complainer to shove off, but there comes a point where the "I'm a paying customer" argument doesn't cut it.

    as far as i know most paying customers generate 14.95 a month. but not if your game sucks. Then you know what you got? Legit complaints filed with not so legit complaints. then everything is negative. (to the blind)

    Regardless..

    my comment itself swings in all different directions. I'm not so conceited than im going to be all YEAH BRO IM THE SOLUTION. And i damn well know im not apart of the problem. it was a snarky response to a snarky comment.

  • RuinalRuinal duhPosts: 195Member

    Did Ilwinter Game Design drop their use of Dominus as a title, I seem to remember those as very in-depth rpg wargames.

    Couldn't agree more Torvaldr. The customer is *not* always right.

    "Developers shouldn't be angry at these people.  It's not their fault.  The industry has failed them.  The "magic" of first-love with an MMORPG cannot be recreated."

    Gotta admit, after so many mmo 'failures' (imho), I'm just too jaded now to enjoy mmos as I once did. My guild had been raiding in SW:TOR for about a month, beat 'hard' mode, nearly beat 'Insane'... and I'm just thoroughly sick of the game now and unsubbed.

    The VM are perhaps getting to the point where there simply is no pleasing them, whatever features and innovation a dev brings to the table, because we are so worn down by the stream of mediocre half-baked mmos trying to pass themselves off as AAA. Hence the virulent fanboy / hater dynamic on many forums... fanboy wants the 'next big thing', hater has given up on it (but secretly wants that 'magic' back). You don't find many of the VM who aren't one of the other.

  • RoyalPhunkRoyalPhunk Vancouver, BCPosts: 174Member

    Originally posted by Tardcore

    Since every person in the world is at their heart a vocal minority of one, I find this idea of the "vocal minority" to be patently ridiculous. All it really is, is a petty little device to automatically gainsay and invalidate any idea that a self styled member of the spurious "Majority" disagrees with.

     

    In truth it is nothing more than a cheap discrimination tactic. IE, "Your opinion doesn't matter as the majority of people who disagree with you don't post here, or in fact don't feel the need to post anywhere as everyting about the issue under discussion is completely hunky dory for this 'phantom' majority of individuals." Its as meaningless an argument as "There are starving children in Africa that would be dead grateful for whatever food item you've chosen to feed to the dog rather than eat."

     

    I find this arrogant and narrowminded behavior especially galling when it comes from an author of a site devoted to the discussion of MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAMES.

     

    In short OP I fail to see how your little screaming wobbler about the angst of social retardation among your online peers is in any way different from the bad behavior of others you've outlinded in your little tirade. I get the idea that none of us are a beautiful or  unique snowflake, however you seem to imply you and your "majority" of likeminded individuals somehow are.

     

    All I can say to that is just like the rest of us, you are just one more chattering monkey in a world full of chattering monkeys. Trying to disenfranchise those whos opinions you do not respect does not make you a superior individual, just an asshole.




     

     

     

     

     

    That was beautiful sir....

     

    +1



     

  • aleosaleos na, INPosts: 1,863Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Tardcore

    In truth it is nothing more than a cheap discrimination tactic.

    pay more attention to this man.

  • Toto020Toto020 Cleveland, OHPosts: 43Member

    Vocal minority?  Sounds like the rant of someone who's pandering to the gaming companies... 

    Rather than calling out the" rushed to launch" gaming companies for their failures, it's somehow our fault that they can't come up with a decent product...

    Is there whinning, sure, but fanbois do the gaming community any real benefit either.  Both must be taken with a grain of salt.

    On a personal note, I never buy product based on the positive reviews but on the negative as they are more likely to be honest and not paid for their reviews...  Let alone I know what to expect.

  • b0bbyZb0bbyZ Cranston, RIPosts: 46Member

    Are you in the Firefall beta perchance? Everything you said applies perfectly to the forums there.

  • b0bbyZb0bbyZ Cranston, RIPosts: 46Member

    Originally posted by Tardcore

    Since every person in the world is at their heart a vocal minority of one, I find this idea of the "vocal minority" to be patently ridiculous. All it really is, is a petty little device to automatically gainsay and invalidate any idea that a self styled member of the spurious "Majority" disagrees with.

     

    In truth it is nothing more than a cheap discrimination tactic. IE, "Your opinion doesn't matter as the majority of people who disagree with you don't post here, or in fact don't feel the need to post anywhere as everyting about the issue under discussion is completely hunky dory for this 'phantom' majority of individuals." Its as meaningless an argument as "There are starving children in Africa that would be dead grateful for whatever food item you've chosen to feed to the dog rather than eat."

     

    I find this arrogant and narrowminded behavior especially galling when it comes from an author of a site devoted to the discussion of MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAMES.

     

    In short OP I fail to see how your little screaming wobbler about the angst of social retardation among your online peers is in any way different from the bad behavior of others you've outlinded in your little tirade. I get the idea that none of us are a beautiful or  unique snowflake, however you seem to imply you and your "majority" of likeminded individuals somehow are.

     

    All I can say to that is just like the rest of us, you are just one more chattering monkey in a world full of chattering monkeys. Trying to disenfranchise those whos opinions you do not respect does not make you a superior individual, just an asshole.




     

    I think the tone of this article went completely over your head.You sound like an asshole who thinks his/her opinion makes them superior(throwing in the phrase " like the rest of us" does not make you exempt from the rest of your post) but really just ends up being an asshole.

    Oh wait, is that what I'm doing?  Won't someone please come quote me and continue this endless circle?

    Swing and a miss, pal.

  • MyrdynnMyrdynn Beaumont, CAPosts: 1,516Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by RoyalPhunk



    Originally posted by Tardcore



    Since every person in the world is at their heart a vocal minority of one, I find this idea of the "vocal minority" to be patently ridiculous. All it really is, is a petty little device to automatically gainsay and invalidate any idea that a self styled member of the spurious "Majority" disagrees with.





     





    In truth it is nothing more than a cheap discrimination tactic. IE, "Your opinion doesn't matter as the majority of people who disagree with you don't post here, or in fact don't feel the need to post anywhere as everyting about the issue under discussion is completely hunky dory for this 'phantom' majority of individuals." Its as meaningless an argument as "There are starving children in Africa that would be dead grateful for whatever food item you've chosen to feed to the dog rather than eat."

    I find this arrogant and narrowminded behavior especially galling when it comes from an author of a site devoted to the discussion of MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAMES.


    In short OP I fail to see how your little screaming wobbler about the angst of social retardation among your online peers is in any way different from the bad behavior of others you've outlinded in your little tirade. I get the idea that none of us are a beautiful or  unique snowflake, however you seem to imply you and your "majority" of likeminded individuals somehow are.



    All I can say to that is just like the rest of us, you are just one more chattering monkey in a world full of chattering monkeys. Trying to disenfranchise those whos opinions you do not respect does not make you a superior individual, just an asshole.










     

    That was beautiful sir....



    +1

     

    I agree with everything in this post +2 except for the punctuation, too much space between paragraphs.

    I started out totally following Prime: I was even a world tester for  Pitch Black.  But everything this chick spews makes me want Dominus to succeed less and less.

    She seems like a total self righteous bitch imo

  • LittlebombLittlebomb issaquah, WAPosts: 152Member

    Originally posted by Mors.Magne

    I'm a member of the "vocal minority": I post on forums and I play Eve Online (a niche game compared to SWTOR).

     

    And I don't agree with important aspects of SWTOR.

     

    I do have the experience to see how SWTOR could be improved.

     

    From experience I know that the chances of SWTOR being improved are very unlikely. This is because companies and devs, like the author, are generally very resistant to change (with the rare exception of CCP).

     

    I think the author of the article should be aware that if his company does not respond to good advice, then he and his colleagues will sooner or later be sacked. This is just the way of the world. This is why just about every company on the Forbes 100 list of 1930 is no longer in existence (with the exeption of General Electric).

    Many good directors are often sacked from companies because they report the truth the the board. The companies continue to live in denial until they go bankrupt.






     




     

    Well said.

     

    I think the OP's article is coming from a broken hearted SWTOR player's perspective. 

    I would also argue that the reason no mmo in recent past has caught on big is because no mmo in recent past besides RIFT is quality and Rift lacks good ART and IP.

    I mean there has been nothing since WOW that was half way decent. Rift is techincally great but it's art is horrible.

     

    I think blaming the player base for being unhappy with the crap they keep shoveling at us is off base.

  • SojhinSojhin Tacoma, WAPosts: 213Member

    The rant/post by Sanya Weathers does no favors to the game this person supports.

  • cirdanecirdane toledo, OHPosts: 46Member

    Sanya it is nice to see that you have come so far in your post DAOC career.  As an old time daoc player I remember watching for your posts and praying that you would at last bring news from codeguard that the code gods had heard our pleas........sucks to be the mesenger.

    So ...when will you be writing the tell all book on DAOC ? please put me down for two copies one to read and keep and the other for dark voodoo curses on the Alby lovin nerfers who so beat on my ranger/thane/skald for sooooo long. 

    Thank you for the informative and funny read hope you continue to do well in the future. 



     

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Worcester, MAPosts: 2,898Member

    Originally posted by Littlebomb



    Originally posted by Mors.Magne



    I'm a member of the "vocal minority": I post on forums and I play Eve Online (a niche game compared to SWTOR).





     





    And I don't agree with important aspects of SWTOR.





     





    I do have the experience to see how SWTOR could be improved.





     





    From experience I know that the chances of SWTOR being improved are very unlikely. This is because companies and devs, like the author, are generally very resistant to change (with the rare exception of CCP).





     





    I think the author of the article should be aware that if his company does not respond to good advice, then he and his colleagues will sooner or later be sacked. This is just the way of the world. This is why just about every company on the Forbes 100 list of 1930 is no longer in existence (with the exeption of General Electric).





    Many good directors are often sacked from companies because they report the truth the the board. The companies continue to live in denial until they go bankrupt.














     










     

    Well said.

     

    I think the OP's article is coming from a broken hearted SWTOR player's perspective. 

    I would also argue that the reason no mmo in recent past has caught on big is because no mmo in recent past besides RIFT is quality and Rift lacks good ART and IP.

    I mean there has been nothing since WOW that was half way decent. Rift is techincally great but it's art is horrible.

     

    I think blaming the player base for being unhappy with the crap they keep shoveling at us is off base.

    You kind of invalidate your opinion by calling Rift quality... It has polish, but quality? It uses the same broken gameplay mechanics that WoW has been limping along with for the past 7 years. There's nothing really new in Rift. But, because it aimed so low, it was able to polish. I guess polish means more than interesting gameplay these days...

    Also, you guys act like this is some random idiot posting this article. This is Sanya, one of the most experienced long standing veterans of the genre, who was involved with probably the third most successful MMO to date.

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