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World vs. World PvP article posted on Arena.net 16 FEB.

1235»

Comments

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,986Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by cinos

    Originally posted by Bunks

    Cino, just ignore them. Remember the game is B2P. That means its little to no investment for someone to test out the game to see if it has what it takes to be good. In fact, once launch starts, not only will it be hard to find any time to come back here to post, Im more worried, if this is even half as good as it sounds, if I can find the time to do any PvE in the game. Im starting to think, the only leveling PvE time I will get is if there will be que waiting times to get into WvW.

    However, people who don't like the format will miss out, sucks for them. Those who want to convice themselves it's because of some design flaw they made up out of thin air, are never going to try the game anyway. Just come back here from time to time and tell them how much damn fun your having, and the rest will take care of itself. Please don't feel you need to defend the game. It will defend itself if it is as good as it seems.

    Funny thing is even the most vocal 'naysayers' have already confirmed that they're going to get the game anyway. :p

    The most vocal naysayres always buy the game they love to hate. No surprise there. Just that they hate it even more after playing.

  • Master10KMaster10K LondonPosts: 3,065Member

    Originally posted by fiontar

    Originally posted by Kimmyboy

    *snip*

    They have previously said, (fairly recently), that each of the four zones making up The Mists can currently hold a total of 500 players. The entire region can hold 2,000. They also said that they had just begun the optimization passes and they hope to nudge those capacities even higher for launch.

    (150X3)<500

    What about mismatched servers? The servers are ranked at the end of each two week war and are matched up against comparable servers. Might there be some mismatches the first week? Sure, there might be. Remember though, we are talking about three factions, not two. An overly dominant server is likely to find themselves being ganged up on, until it is no longer advantageous for the allied servers to remain allies.

    Which other games used buffed characters for massive scale PvP? It may always suck in your imagination, but facts are probably not going to do anything to correct that. :)

    You might want to read and re-read all the info we have to date on World Vs. World, then maybe research Realm vs Realm in DaoC, why so many people loved it and why WvW has been designed to take RvR and make it even better. Then, maybe you can contribute something to the discussion beyond a negatively predisposed imagination?

    ^This pretty much explains it all. Here's exactly what the devs said:

     

    GWI: Do you have an idea of how many people are in a WvWvW?

    Jonathan: We’re estimating right now that we’ll be able to get about 500 people into each map.

    Matt: Since there about 4 WvWvW maps, that’s about 2,000 players in total. So we have a pretty large capacity but we still haven’t done a whole lot of optimization passes either so we’re hoping we can get that number a little higher. We’re just estimating 500 as our cap right now.

     

    In the end, some of us will get to see it for ourselves, come March & April.

    image

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,986Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Master10K

    Originally posted by fiontar


    Originally posted by Kimmyboy

    *snip*

    They have previously said, (fairly recently), that each of the four zones making up The Mists can currently hold a total of 500 players. The entire region can hold 2,000. They also said that they had just begun the optimization passes and they hope to nudge those capacities even higher for launch.

    (150X3)<500

    What about mismatched servers? The servers are ranked at the end of each two week war and are matched up against comparable servers. Might there be some mismatches the first week? Sure, there might be. Remember though, we are talking about three factions, not two. An overly dominant server is likely to find themselves being ganged up on, until it is no longer advantageous for the allied servers to remain allies.

    Which other games used buffed characters for massive scale PvP? It may always suck in your imagination, but facts are probably not going to do anything to correct that. :)

    You might want to read and re-read all the info we have to date on World Vs. World, then maybe research Realm vs Realm in DaoC, why so many people loved it and why WvW has been designed to take RvR and make it even better. Then, maybe you can contribute something to the discussion beyond a negatively predisposed imagination?

    ^This pretty much explains it all. Here's exactly what the devs said:

     

    GWI: Do you have an idea of how many people are in a WvWvW?

    Jonathan: We’re estimating right now that we’ll be able to get about 500 people into each map.

    Matt: Since there about 4 WvWvW maps, that’s about 2,000 players in total. So we have a pretty large capacity but we still haven’t done a whole lot of optimization passes either so we’re hoping we can get that number a little higher. We’re just estimating 500 as our cap right now.

     

    In the end, some of us will get to see it for ourselves, come March & April.

    It is a tall claim really and i knwo for sure that those who dislike GW2 won't let it go if Anet failed to deliver on 500 player promise...haters will never let it go.

  • Master10KMaster10K LondonPosts: 3,065Member

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by Kimmyboy

    *snip*

    AoC had nothing of the kind unless you count the borderlands keeps and I am sure they weren´t the reason for AoCs failure. As I remember it you had to scheduele for sieges there. 

    In WARs case who owned the keeps changed over night, that is true and it was an issue because guilds spent so much time and work to capture them. The whole RvR in WAR didn´t work becuase first of all were most people fighting in instances instead of the open world and secondly were the keeps a last minute solution after they scrapped out 4 of the 6 cities.

    ANET have planned this all the time so hopefully will it be better, but you could be right, it is impossible to say without having played the mists for a few days. but as I see it would the alternative be turning off the mists during low population hours and that is frankly not the least fun.

    I actually think that is one of the main reasons why they have NPC Guards for Castles, Keeps, Towers and Resource camps. So that when most of the population is asleep, except for those 5 people on the server (you know who you are). They won't be able to do much because the NPCs will prevent it. ArenaNet could even buff the NPCs between 2am and 7am, just to be sure. image

    image

  • toodlepip123toodlepip123 pentre, FLPosts: 125Member

    Originally posted by Gorilla

    Originally posted by cinos


    Originally posted by toodlepip123

    I love how people are claiming GW2 as the 2nd coming when there has been NOTHING shown in evidence of what the devs are saying.

     

    It;s also EXTREMELY sad that people are claiming it to be a pvp game or trying to make it out to be a pvp game , when its primarily a PvE game, and PvP is an after thought tacked on to the side.

     

    Again, this is a PvE game.  The WvWvW  bullshit is pretty much Arena nets version of a wow type battleground, just on a larger scale. 

    Ok.

    Firstly, the only people claiming that GW2 is considered the 'second coming' are the people who claim other people are saying it. Go ahead, find me one quote from anyone who said this and genuinly believed it (and not said as a sarcastic joke).

    Second, everytime Arenanet have talked about something it's because it is finished and in the game. There is hundreds of hours of footage to back up each and everyone of their blog posts. Do you think it a coincidence that days before the press beta ends we get a blog post about WvW?

    Third, why on earth do you think that this game had pvp simply tacked on as an afterthought? They're pressing this game to be an esport for goodness sake. There has been no indication during GW2's development cycle that it being tacked on is the case or are you just complaining that the pvp in this game isn't 'hardcore' enough for you. In which case I believe Darkfall is currently available.

    Lastly, clearly you have completely misunderstood WvW. I'm not going to bother wasting any more time on you so I'm just going to suggest you try it out before you condemn it offhand. Just calling it "bullshit" after reading a single blog post? Way to show your maturity right there. :p

     Not sure why you bothered. There is obviously a fundamental issue with basic comprehension going on here.

    Toodle yes it is just an on rails quest grinder with pvp battlegrounds tacked on as an after though.  If you want something truly new maybe SWTOR is for you, thats a real mouldbreaker.

    Yep. must be the reason why ii played UO, and SWG before it dropped into the cesspit of themeparks.

     

    You really need to think before you touch those buttons on your keyboard.

  • SomsbalSomsbal somsbalPosts: 222Member

    Originally posted by toodlepip123

    Yep. must be the reason why ii played UO, and SWG before it dropped into the cesspit of themeparks.

     

    You really need to think before you touch those buttons on your keyboard.

    And you need to start making sense before you post garbage like you did before

  • MustBeBadMustBeBad DB, FLPosts: 74Member

    Originally posted by Master10K

    Originally posted by Loke666


    Originally posted by Kimmyboy

    *snip*

    AoC had nothing of the kind unless you count the borderlands keeps and I am sure they weren´t the reason for AoCs failure. As I remember it you had to scheduele for sieges there. 

    In WARs case who owned the keeps changed over night, that is true and it was an issue because guilds spent so much time and work to capture them. The whole RvR in WAR didn´t work becuase first of all were most people fighting in instances instead of the open world and secondly were the keeps a last minute solution after they scrapped out 4 of the 6 cities.

    ANET have planned this all the time so hopefully will it be better, but you could be right, it is impossible to say without having played the mists for a few days. but as I see it would the alternative be turning off the mists during low population hours and that is frankly not the least fun.

    I actually think that is one of the main reasons why they have NPC Guards for Castles, Keeps, Towers and Resource camps. So that when most of the population is asleep, except for those 5 people on the server (you know who you are). They won't be able to do much because the NPCs will prevent it. ArenaNet could even buff the NPCs between 2am and 7am, just to be sure. image

    why buff npcs? xthe intention is to be unbalanced anyway and im sure top servers will be attacking 24/7. maybe not the same ppl, but thats why guilds will play a major role here;

     

    image

  • Games888Games888 Chicago, ILPosts: 243Member

    pvp will always come 2nd b/c there are more pver than pvper and pvper also pve but alot of pver wont pvp get that? even Uo and Daoc have pve 1st pvp 2nd.

     

     

  • Master10KMaster10K LondonPosts: 3,065Member

    Originally posted by luizresende

    Originally posted by Master10K


    Originally posted by Loke666


    Originally posted by Kimmyboy

    *snip*

    AoC had nothing of the kind unless you count the borderlands keeps and I am sure they weren´t the reason for AoCs failure. As I remember it you had to scheduele for sieges there. 

    In WARs case who owned the keeps changed over night, that is true and it was an issue because guilds spent so much time and work to capture them. The whole RvR in WAR didn´t work becuase first of all were most people fighting in instances instead of the open world and secondly were the keeps a last minute solution after they scrapped out 4 of the 6 cities.

    ANET have planned this all the time so hopefully will it be better, but you could be right, it is impossible to say without having played the mists for a few days. but as I see it would the alternative be turning off the mists during low population hours and that is frankly not the least fun.

    I actually think that is one of the main reasons why they have NPC Guards for Castles, Keeps, Towers and Resource camps. So that when most of the population is asleep, except for those 5 people on the server (you know who you are). They won't be able to do much because the NPCs will prevent it. ArenaNet could even buff the NPCs between 2am and 7am, just to be sure. image

    why buff npcs? xthe intention is to be unbalanced anyway and im sure top servers will be attacking 24/7. maybe not the same ppl, but thats why guilds will play a major role here;

    Yeah, but allow people to sleep without worrying that a party of 5 people with odd sleep times, won't be able to take all their  the Keeps.

    image

  • Master10KMaster10K LondonPosts: 3,065Member

    Originally posted by Games888

    pvp will always come 2nd b/c there are more pver than pvper and pvper also pve but alot of pver wont pvp get that? even Uo and Daoc have pve 1st pvp 2nd.

    That's merely because PvE requires working systems & content for those systems. PvP just requires the systems to be in place and no real need for extra content. So of course any MMORPG dev studio will spend more work hours on PvE, creating new content.

    image

  • crewthiefcrewthief Fayetteville, NCPosts: 235Member

    Some people will just never be pleased regardless. Forget the haters and just look forward to the game.

    Sorroe, Human Mesmer
    Jade Quarry Server

  • mazutmazut SofiaPosts: 886Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Kimmyboy

     

    It will not work: people don't live behind their PC's. You'll log off and every situation will have changed over night, making huge changes to a players situation without the player being involved.

    It has been done in AOC and WAR and those games failed because people no longer connect due to simply not being on line.

    I'll play it to see things through, but I see too many wishful thinking here.

    Both in techinal issues as in implementation and motivation.

     

     

    No please, dont. We wont miss you ;)

  • BunksBunks New Port Richey, FLPosts: 960Member

    Originally posted by crewthief

    Some people will just never be pleased regardless. Forget the haters and just look forward to the game.

    Please, I beg as a overly optimistic Gw2 fan, don't use the term hater. The game doesn't need to be defended if it is good. Just let them rant and then post how much fun you are having.

  • crewthiefcrewthief Fayetteville, NCPosts: 235Member

    Originally posted by Bunks

    Originally posted by crewthief

    Some people will just never be pleased regardless. Forget the haters and just look forward to the game.

    Please, I beg as a overly optimistic Gw2 fan, don't use the term hater. The game doesn't need to be defended if it is good. Just let them rant and then post how much fun you are having.

    Yeah, I get your meaning...I suppose that word gets thrown around a bit much. I suppose it would be more appropriate to say; Some people are pessimistic by nature and relish the opportunity to be a 'wet blanket'. Misery for the sake of misery.

    Sorroe, Human Mesmer
    Jade Quarry Server

  • pedrostrikpedrostrik lisboaPosts: 391Member

    ''....Have we succeeded? I think so, but you will be the ultimate judge. I can tell you that as gamers, we’re having the time of our lives playing world vs. world, and we can’t wait to meet the rest of you on the field of battle. We’ll see you in the Mists!.''
    This last sentence its enough to prove the game in these gigantic maps its outstanding, i dont see the day im playing there!

  • KabaalKabaal Edinburgh, ScotlandPosts: 3,012Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by pedrostrik

    ''....Have we succeeded? I think so, but you will be the ultimate judge. I can tell you that as gamers, we’re having the time of our lives playing world vs. world, and we can’t wait to meet the rest of you on the field of battle. We’ll see you in the Mists!.''

    This last sentence its enough to prove the game in these gigantic maps its outstanding, i dont see the day im playing there!

    Every pubisher/developer will talk their games up to make them sound like next the best thing since sliced bread, it's just marketing and means nothing. That doesn't mean i'm not starting to get more and more interested in the game, because i am, just that the past 5 or 6 years of MMO releases have turned me either into a cynic or a realist. I'm not sure which at this point.

    _____

    Of all the games coming out over the next year this one seems to be the only one piquing my interest, i'll try the others such as TERA and even TSW just in case but I have more doubts about them.

  • FionFion Montour Falls, NYPosts: 2,351Member

    I really like that it isn't just PvP but contains DE's and PvE. It means it can be fun for everyone, even those who aren't real fans of PvP can jump into it. Even casual players can jump in and participate from level 1 onward.



    I also like that they have apparently implemented an anti-zerg philosophy. That smaller groups are just as important as your 100 player 'direct siege' force. That strategy is more important than pure man power. That you cannot hold or take a keep because you have more people is a fantastic design decision. Combine that with the wide variety of ways to participate in WvW  no matter the size of your group or guild means everyone can play! From clearing and taking supply lines, protecting that line as it's crutial to your keep/tower and NPC defenses. Raiding small towers, confronting various NPC races and convincing them to ally with you for a short time. Those are all fantastic activities you can participate in that might not directly involve PvP.



    That you can jump in at level 1, and participate and actually contribute to your server (and your guilds) success in the match, and gain xp and gear as you go.. is fantastic.



    WvW as endgame as well means perpetual fun that isn't focused on farming repetitious content that the developers need spend man hours and resources creating ever increasing content to blast through. Thus freeing them up to create content for all levels, to improve the WvW gameplay, etc.



    I am most excited to see this in action. I really hope it is something the press beta can participate in. I suspect that is why we got this article now, so we have a primer on all the cool details the press will be delivering to us on monday. :)

    image

  • crewthiefcrewthief Fayetteville, NCPosts: 235Member

    Originally posted by Fion

    I really like that it isn't just PvP but contains DE's and PvE. It means it can be fun for everyone, even those who aren't real fans of PvP can jump into it. Even casual players can jump in and participate from level 1 onward.



    I also like that they have apparently implemented an anti-zerg philosophy. That smaller groups are just as important as your 100 player 'direct siege' force. That strategy is more important than pure man power. That you cannot hold or take a keep because you have more people is a fantastic design decision. Combine that with the wide variety of ways to participate in WvW  no matter the size of your group or guild means everyone can play! From clearing and taking supply lines, protecting that line as it's crutial to your keep/tower and NPC defenses. Raiding small towers, confronting various NPC races and convincing them to ally with you for a short time. Those are all fantastic activities you can participate in that might not directly involve PvP.



    That you can jump in at level 1, and participate and actually contribute to your server (and your guilds) success in the match, and gain xp and gear as you go.. is fantastic.



    WvW as endgame as well means perpetual fun that isn't focused on farming repetitious content that the developers need spend man hours and resources creating ever increasing content to blast through. Thus freeing them up to create content for all levels, to improve the WvW gameplay, etc.



    I am most excited to see this in action. I really hope it is something the press beta can participate in. I suspect that is why we got this article now, so we have a primer on all the cool details the press will be delivering to us on monday. :)

    The coordination, communication, and teamwork required to successfully defend or seige is one of the defining aspects in my mind. It'll take everyone getting involved and cooperating in order to win and be a top server.

    Sorroe, Human Mesmer
    Jade Quarry Server

  • SoulSurferSoulSurfer Denver, COPosts: 1,248Member

    This reminds me a lot of WAR and then + a little bit of starcraft (upgrading your units and buildings), where you have to maintain supply to keep things afloat.  I think that adds a new active dimension into seiging, taking, and actually holding your forts longer than 24 hrs like in WAR.  I do also agree with the chain of command post someone mentioned, in this your server is your community, and if folks just fight and have E-peegos, it will suffer from more organized servers tactics/logistics in the mists. 

    I also like how they spread everything out trying to minimize the 'zerg', for full effectiveness, granted I would still like to see how a zerg strategy would do because in WAR, you'd have small units dispersed at different locations, with a 'mobile zerg' running around smashing everything, while supporting the stationed smaller units around the map as well.  I guess this is where the  3 sides come into play more than faction vs faction model?

    I never played DaoC, but I've heard nothing but good things from the long-timers on this site.  I like how Anet is taking a lot of things into consideration, especially from many older type games and refining them on how the previous attempts of past titles have failed.

     

  • crewthiefcrewthief Fayetteville, NCPosts: 235Member

    Originally posted by SoulSurfer

    This reminds me a lot of WAR and then + a little bit of starcraft (upgrading your units and buildings), where you have to maintain supply to keep things afloat.  I think that adds a new active dimension into seiging, taking, and actually holding your forts longer than 24 hrs like in WAR.  I do also agree with the chain of command post someone mentioned, in this your server is your community, and if folks just fight and have E-peegos, it will suffer from more organized servers tactics/logistics in the mists. 

    I also like how they spread everything out trying to minimize the 'zerg', for full effectiveness, granted I would still like to see how a zerg strategy would do because in WAR, you'd have small units dispersed at different locations, with a 'mobile zerg' running around smashing everything, while supporting the stationed smaller units around the map as well.  I guess this is where the  3 sides come into play more than faction vs faction model?

    I never played DaoC, but I've heard nothing but good things from the long-timers on this site.  I like how Anet is taking a lot of things into consideration, especially from many older type games and refining them on how the previous attempts of past titles have failed.

     

    Yeah, one of the great things about how WvW is structured is that small and large guilds alike will have an active role to fill. The smaller guilds can, in a way, utilize a more 'guerilla warfare' approach where they conduct ambushes, disrupt or defend supply lines, and basically just take advantage of having that increased mobility, being a smaller group. Of course, in my opinion, the actual act of assaulting the larger keeps and castles will fall on the larger guilds, or the 'main army' if you will. In that respect,  I do think that communication between the leaders of guilds both small and large will be crucial to ultimate success.

    Sorroe, Human Mesmer
    Jade Quarry Server

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