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Originally posted by Jason2444 Originally posted by AdamTM What is it with this trend, i seriously don't get it. Everyone i ask says "i unsubbed because X" and i read similar things everywhere on the net too...yet, 80% retention, servers standard and high, top sales charts at electronics retailers. Is it always the same people that post this on (different) forums or what?
I know right?!?! CLEARLY SWTOR has 5.5 million subs
Don't worry about the people asknig for server merges! They're just haters and trolls because they're scared SWTOR is the WOW KILLER!
whos asking for that?
All the servers were heavy or standard last night at 11pm EST when I logged in...
Yeah I was surprised too. Then I went about my business doing HM FPS and enjoying SWTOR like a lot of other people apparently are.
Originally posted by blondeh Originally posted by AcmeGamer Originally posted by matraque What would you like to see added next? I personally would like to see them iterate on space. SWG was a big pile of garbage, but space was really fun.
Even if I don't consider it a success myself due to how badly it was done, I'll consider it successful when they are out of the red as far as how much they've invested in this game. Then even if I don't think it was done well I will have to concede that they have been successful regardless of my opinion. So ask again once I see that they've recovered the total cost for this monster and are in the black, and then I can ramble on about how many things they should or could still do right to fix this game and not make it no better then the rating you give SWG.
How much did it cost? how will you know when they are out of the red? do you have access to their bank accounts and finances. Maybe your thier accountant?
As much as I disliked the Beta and am refusing to play SWTOR, they've created a fairly detailed albeit bland ho-hum on-rails game that seems to appeal to casual gamers and Mafia Wars folks. If you like Facebook-style games at a subscription rate, SWTOR seems to fit that niche.
Noone really knows their numbers but $100+ million seems to be thrown about a lot. So assuming 1 million subs (their conference call said as high as 1.5+ million) at $15/month that's enough to pay for the development and then some after roughly 1 year. Making it more or less a successful game.
So no, SWTOR isn't my thing, but people seem to be enjoying it, and congrats to them, I'll keep waiting for the next sandbox though...
Originally posted by Laughing-man Server merges? whos asking for that? All the servers were heavy or standard last night at 11pm EST when I logged in... 11PM PM Yeah I was surprised too. Then I went about my business doing HM FPS and enjoying SWTOR like a lot of other people apparently are.
Ya heavy doesn't mean shit when "Heavy" in SWTOR means "Medium" in WoW
Looking at JUST the heavy servers alone, last week, in the span of an hour, heavy servers went from 10 to 30 "magically" doubling the games activity
Bioware has been lowering the requirments for heavy servers. Ever wonder why SWTOR struggles to get even 1 full server on sundays now?
MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APBBest MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCPWorst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts
I'd like them to add some "endgame" content that didn't mimic the standard run of the mill gearginding dungeons and raids.
Give us some major territory to build in and control/deny resources from others, that's what I'm really hoping they add to this game.
Because otherwise, once I get to 50 with a couple of alts, my time is done here.
Last night my guild made a call saying anyone who was level 50 and ever planned on being a raider better get over to the raid they were getting ready to run.
Fortunately I was only level 20 so no choice to be made yet, but I was thinking, when the time came I was probably going to decline and move on. (or at least roll an alt over on the Dark side)
"Winning" at EVE Online since May, 2007!
In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™ "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
AKA, how to get over 80 replies in under four hours on MMORPG.com, with a post that's little more than a one-liner...
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I mean im not hating either way, but its the first time I esentially get contradicting feedback from everyone I know on how good an MMO is doing, which is extremely confusing.
Idk, maybe I and my friends are in that demographic that simply outgrew the market and there actually really were only 300k of us.
Either way its confusing as fuck because that means I can't trust my assessments anymore which will guide my purchase deceissions.
If TSW/GW2 goes downhill I will know that I can make peace with the fact that I don't really understand the market anymore and stop subbing to MMOs, because I'm not hot to invest money into something that will go F2P/broke in half a year.
Originally posted by Laughing-man Star Wars is not about exploring space, or space combat at all really, almost ALL of the action is people fighting people (or aliens)
It has nothing to do with being a SWG vet. About half of any given Star Wars movie takes place in space or on a spaceship. Every single film has a climactic space battle.
Also, if you look at what they do - Luke is a pilot, Han is a pilot, Chewie is a pilot, Lando is a pilot, Anakin is a pilot... are you seeing a pattern here?
So yeah, space is quite important to the Star Wars galaxy. In addition to the films, if you've read any of the expanded universe novels or comics, you would know that the approx 50% ratio of ground to space is maintained throughout most of them. So to say that star wars is about ground battles is completely ridiculous. It may not be about "space exploration" - which indeed is a more star trek thing - but it certainly IS about space battles, space travel and space adventures such as smuggling & bounty hunting.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
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Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STOFavourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, FirefallCurrently Playing: EQ2, BDO
Not only is SWTOR the biggest fiasco in MMORGP history, there probably never will be anything like it again.
It was the perfect storm of failure:
* Suits, bean counters, and marketing drones with dreams of hundreds of millions in WoW type profits
* One of the biggest IPs in the world, Star Wars
* A crappy and incompetent developer, Bioware
* And a giant publisher, EA, who thought throwing hundreds of millions at development would take down WoW
EA isn't going to make back even the lowest estimates, 100 million, of the money they wasted developing SWTOR.
Originally posted by Vedra Not only is SWTOR the biggest fiasco in MMORGP history, there probably never will be anything like it again. It was the perfect storm of failure: * Suits, bean counters, and marketing drones with dreams of hundreds of millions in WoW type profits * One of the biggest IPs in the world, Star Wars * A crappy and incompetent developer, Bioware * And a giant publisher, EA, who thought throwing hundreds of millions at development would take down WoW EA isn't going to make back even the lowest estimates, 100 million, of the money they wasted developing SWTOR.
You can take the tinfoil hat off they have already turned a profit off of SWTOR.
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What Orwellian world do you live in that you can call this game a success? This game may soon be listed in a thesaurus as an antonym to the word success.
swtor is not a success!! if it was a success it would'nt have dwindling numbers would it now!!! just stop your fan boi approach for a momment and take time to actually see the reality! at start!! the game servers ! i.e. all of them where full to copacity! now they are mostly light most of the time with the odd one at heavy load,,
that my friends is indication of a failing game! it cannot retain its player base because the game doesnt offer enough, bioware mainly EA'S fault speant so long on polish and voice over and size they totally forgot about content game play and userbility. and the result is a rather empty shell of a starwars game AT THE START!!
in time the game has 2 and only 2 dirrections it could turn to. one would be the wow style themepark which it already emulates so well and is probably the soul reason its flopping right now!! or it will turn to the sandbox style game which is what it really needs to do! sand box type games havnt been explored enough by the developers who have the collateral to do so! all we see usually are indy sandbox's like eve online!! with enough cash flow and backing swtor could easily be the greatest game devloped but it needs a whole rework!
it needs to loose its ohso obvious we copied wow look and feel.
Originally posted by AdamTM I mean im not hating either way, but its the first time I esentially get contradicting feedback from everyone I know on how good an MMO is doing, which is extremely confusing. Idk, maybe I and my friends are in that demographic that simply outgrew the market and there actually really were only 300k of us. Either way its confusing as fuck because that means I can't trust my assessments anymore which will guide my purchase deceissions. If TSW/GW2 goes downhill I will know that I can make peace with the fact that I don't really understand the market anymore and stop subbing to MMOs, because I'm not hot to invest money into something that will go F2P/broke in half a year.
I wouldn't even sweat it. It was some people on the forums that were saying this game had over an 80% retention rate and anyone with a lick of common sense regardless their opinion of the game knew that was simply not the case.
Especially if you looked at their awesome rationale of how they came to this conclusion. I would imagine it left some former Enron execs still kicking green with envy.
As for initial sales...well it is BW and Star Wars so shouldn't really be surprising far as that goes.
Far as the server reads? I have no idea if they've changed them. What I do know is that my server is not near as full as when I started there, but on the same token my server says standard now compared to when I first went there and it read as being heavy. Personally, I don't think they tinkered with those, but I do think they have a rather broad range for what changes the rating for them. I have only played on two servers though so that is all I can base my opinions on. On my two servers it appears the population is dwindling but i have no idea how many are quitting or simply rerolling. The game has been out long enough now that new players can get a heads up on which servers have the best populations and faction balances so I would imagine many are rerolling there and quite a few new players are going there to begin with.
I think unless you assumed this game was going to fail miserably or topple WoW that your take on how the game would fair is probably pretty close to what is going on.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Originally posted by troublmaker You can take the tinfoil hat off they have already turned a profit off of SWTOR.
Ok SWTOR is a success , As a MMO player , Ive talked to people at work and friends that would not even look at something as mainstream as WOW are playing SWTOR and loving it , SWTOR has been able to bring in Non MMO players to the fold . Sure if you have been playing MMOs like me since 2003 .. IM a little burned out on the format , But I have been so suprised about all the diffrent types of people I know that are playing this. Im just not sure what some of you figure out as success , Getting people who dont play mmos to play one is a goal non of the new games have accomplished in the last few years . GW2 i dont think will have this appeal , People who play console games or casual games have no idea what guild wars is. So just putting in my 2 cents on this .
now you are on to something!!you are right previous poster this game is so casual player friendly that most casual player love it!
On all things video games related, SWTOR is in top 50 of amazon.com
208 days in top 100... How is that not successful?
wow i just got to thinking! wouldnt it be odd if business's where actually running at a loss! i mean swtor for example made alot of money from its launch muh more than it cost to create the game!! all those millions of players queing up for the best thing since sliced bread!, it really must be the best game out there for them to make all there money back in just the first month of release! but then another part of me keeps popping up in the back of my head!! my bussiness sense and it keeps saying! well swtor was only developed so the people developing it could turn a proffit in the first place. its really wierd how some peoples minds work!
whwy would bioware and EA create a product and spend five years doing so!! if they had no intention of making lots of money of of it! hmm why would they spend so much money on adevertiseing if they didnt know how many copies they would sell! and i think the most important question is why would they make a game seems so much like another extremely successful title in regaurds to income and proffit!! im just knocking ideas around here but i think it has something to do with makeing money and a quick turn around with a likely possibility of a slow trickle of fund afterwards!!
i doubt very much that they care alot for how we all think the game sux or not whyile they are making the money they do! they dont think long term but they will sell you long term in the hope you buy into it! after if you swallow the whole long term development crap your just simply paying their wages and bills so they can keep driving round in there wicked cool cars and living in there really nice houses!! and for what!! a mediocre game with a fantastic name that sells its self.
you muppets!! lol
This is a casual players dream in a lot of ways , Every class has a story , 2 sides to explore , Easy to learn ship combat Really are hardcore mmo players what EA wants sure , But its not there target audiance , The want the Dad with 2 hours to kill a few nights a week , Raiders and Such are never going to be happy , MMO players tend to jump to the next game anway as it comes out . Ive always done this to and keep being dissapointed , There is nothing like your first MMO , so now a whole new group is experianceing this with SWTOR. Its nice to hear the new mmo players trying to figure it all out , for all of use who know how to tank , DPS , Heal , ETC its nice to hear people not figuring out michanics of a game how it min/max , its good to tell them just how get good gear and such . Oh well
. GW2 i dont think will have this appeal , People who play console games or casual games have no idea what guild wars is. So just putting in my 2 cents on this .
funny that! cause guild wars 1 wasnt on the console either and that game was huge! huge doesnt mean good! but it was a very busy place to play and it was barely even concidered an mmo.
I'm willing to accept a ban for this post, but this is what SW:ToR is obviously:
Mass crash after 1.1.3
Why I posted this?
Because this game has WAR and AoC written all over it. No amount of initial buyers will save games that are poorly done and maintained.
And no, this is not a hate post. I don't hate the game. I feel somewhat sad, because I did cave in and buy a copy of it. But that's all.
Originally posted by BenGellor GW2 i dont think will have this appeal , People who play console games or casual games have no idea what guild wars is. So just putting in my 2 cents on this .
I beg to differ. I think if the devs are being even remotely honest about what the game will have it could be rather impressive and change the mmo genre to an extent.
...and this is coming from someone that only has passing interest in the game because frankly I never thought much of GW. But GW2 seems to have a lot to offer. Whether it tends to be bullshit like it does with most devs or actually contains what they say it will is the question.
Hasn't GW even sold over 6 million copies? That's a lot of people to simply write off in my opinion. Between those players and the hype if this game does pan out you could be looking at the next big thing. It certainly isn't going to have the sales some of these others games had right off the bat but over some time it could be hugely significant and as i said pending on some things could change things as we know it. Especially since the game doesn't require a sub and simply a game purchase.
Really the only downfalls I see for them is how pc friendly will the game be and are they actually going to be able to deliver the things they say they will. Well, that and assuming they don't completely fuck up their launch.
Originally posted by drbaltazar now you are on to something!!you are right previous poster this game is so casual player friendly that most casual player love it!
what does casual player friendly even mean ?
Originally posted by matraque On all things video games related, SWTOR is in top 50 of amazon.com 208 days in top 100... How is that not successful?
Sales = success?
Using that theory the Russian T-72 is a successful tank, until it has to roll onto the battlefield.
Originally posted by matraque What would you like to see added next? I personally would like to see them iterate on space. SWG was a big pile of garbage, but space was really fun.
SWTOR is a steaming pile next to SWG - post NGE even and shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath (or text!)
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
Ok im bias on the guild wars thing , I hate that game , Hire a buch of hirelings .. go to a map , rinse / repeat , I just could never get into that game at all , BTW Guild wars does not have the same draw as say Star Wars ... i mean really people, most people would thing something called guild wars was a freaking A/E show about cooking or buying storage units .